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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:02 PM
Original message
Ray McGovern: "Cheney And Plame"
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050719/cheney_and_plame.php


Cheney And Plame
Ray McGovern
July 19, 2005


Ray McGovern works at Tell the Word, the publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in Washington, DC. He had a 27-year career as an analyst at CIA and is on the Steering Group of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.

In yesterday’s essay, Why Plame Matters, http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050718/why_plame_matters.php
we suggested that the White House assault on the reputations of former ambassador Joseph Wilson and his wife had much to do with “the particular lie that Wilson exposed,” and we discussed the unusual role Vice President Dick Cheney played regarding the bogus “intelligence” about Iraq seeking to acquire uranium from Niger. Our Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) files provide contemporaneous insight into Cheney’s unusual involvement and throw light on continuing attempts to disguise it.

Continuing attempts? Investigative journalist Robert Parry, writing today for consortiumnews.com, notes that atop the Republican National Committee’s list of “Joe Wilson’s Top Ten Worst Inaccuracies and Misstatements” sits “Wilson insisted that the Vice President’s office sent him to Niger.” That’s not exactly what Wilson said, but let’s leave that point aside for the moment. What strikes me is the rather transparent two-year-old campaign to dissociate Cheney from L’Affaire Iraq-Niger.

On July 14, 2003, the day of Robert Novak’s opening salvo against the Wilsons, VIPS wrote a Memorandum for the President with two main sections: “The Forgery Flap,” and “The Vice President’s Role.” In that memo, we also made an important recommendation that appeared a bit extreme at the time, but it was already possible to discern what was going on:

We recommend that you call an abrupt halt to attempts to prove Vice President Cheney “not guilty.” His role has been so transparent that such attempts will only erode further your own credibility. Equally pernicious, from our perspective, is the likelihood that intelligence analysts will conclude that the way to success is to acquiesce in the cooking of their judgments, since those above them will not be held accountable. We strongly recommend that you ask for Cheney’s immediate resignation.

..more..
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. I second the call
for resignation.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bush is co-dependent. No way he could get through this without,...
,...all the evil-hearted men propping him up.

Good piece, though!!! Thanks! :hi:
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kristol: Fitzpatrick is "the problem for the White House
So it is Rove himself who has invited the skunk to the neocon picnic: Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald. He shows no penchant to join in the fun and games, and still less to speak prematurely. He appears to be a real pro, and as long has he can avoid being fired, he could potentially take all the fun out of things. Neocon pundit William Kristol no doubt was reflecting a growing sense of unease when he commented recently that Fitzpatrick is "the problem for the White House; we have no idea what he knows."

I love Tompaine.com and Ray McGovern
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. I thought he was an independent prosecutor?
Doesn't that mean he can't be fired or am I just being naive?

Now, mind you, I'm just as concerned about planes, trains and automobiles, along with heart attacks, poisoning and suicide in the case of Fitzpatrick. Though, to take off my tin foil hat for a moment, I suspect everyone on his team has all the info he has so silencing him probably wouldn't accomplish the goal.

I don't think the BFEE really wants to hear what he has to say.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Great!
Thanks for posting this.
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faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. kick for ray mcgovern
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Been thinking about
having my tubes reattached... ;-)
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. LOL!
:hug:

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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Good article
I love reading anything about the CIA's role in this. I think the CIA will play a big role in the conclusion of this mess as well, whether we realize it or not.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. As much as I want Chaingang to go down....
I don't think the chances are very good. He is the one that will be protected at all costs. I hope I am wrong. He just has too much power.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Carl Bernstein said on
Jon Stewart's last night that in the Watergate White House..it was the repugs who brought down nixon..no one else..not the media or the Dems.
And with this gang..the repubs are sticking by them.

Go Figure!
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. Given this.....
Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 02:23 PM by leftchick
<snip>

The main motivation of the White House character assassins had more to do with the particular lie that Joseph Wilson exposed and the essential role it played in the administration's plans. For a nuclear-armed Iraq was the most compelling threat that could be peddled to our elected representatives and senators to deceive them into approving a war launched for reasons we now know were unrelated to any putative Iraqi WMD program.


why the hell aren't the Democrats in congress screaming they were LIED to , not misled, and we need to bring the troops home!!



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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. "misled"
a very 'misleading' way to depict being "lied to".

..sane people just want to scream..
:argh:
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. Great article from Ray McGovern.
Worth reading the whole thing.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ray McGovern just has a logical way
of looking at the facts. He is a facts guy and just puts two and two together. He is so intuitive...
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Scooter Libby is the real news.
His role leads directly to Cheney. I beleive it was Cheney that got the ball rolling to discredit Joe Wilson and destroy the covert project that Mrs. Wilson was heading up. Her boss, Pavitt resigned shortly after G. Tenet did. I feel that this is significant yet there has been little speculation about Pavitt's resignation.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I have speculated that as well starting with AF1 and
the classified document Powell was seen holding when he boarded the plane. The memo was passed around and talked about and some calls were made to whom I believe were reporters from AF1. There is a reason the SP subpoenaed those phone records....

This is only the dog's theory....
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. Yeah, I agree with Ray McGovern. That's my sense of it, too. Cheney lurks.
A lot of what went down seems like an effort at misdirection, away from Cheney--for instance, that Plame somehow authorized her husband's mission to Niger (just can't happen). I've always been puzzled about why Wilson being married to Plame, a WMD expert, would taint or discredit Wilson in any way. It would seem to do the opposite--to ENHANCE his ability to carry out the Niger mission. So, why did they treat it this way--why did this assumption get around that it discredits him, when it doesn't?

I think it's a sort of sidelight, or fuzzied or garbled point of the leak, the REAL point being to aim away from Cheney as the mastermind of the entire affair, which, from the beginning was designed to blind and disable the CIA--to out Plame and her entire network of eyes and ears on WMDs around the world--to hide, cover up, prevent detection of, Cheney arms dealings and other nefarious Bush Cartel WMD activities.

I suspect that one of those activities may have been a plot to PLANT WMDs in Iraq. Remember the political climate that summer. A find of WMDs in Iraq was badly needed, politically--not just by Bush, but also by Blair. And guess what was happening in England at the exact same moment as the plot against Plame (with, in my opinion, Wilson being "collateral damage," not the other way around): the effort to shut up Brit WMD expert Dr. David Kelly--who, after supporting the invasion, had a sudden and surprising change of heart, and began whistleblowing to the BBC about the Blairites' WMD exaggerations ("sexing up" of the Brit intel on Iraq), in May '03. This caused quite a tither of fear and scrambling by the Blairites: a "security style interview" of Kelly, Blair being told that Kelly could say "some uncomfortable things," the gov't outing Kelly's name to the press, then letting him go home without protection, where, a day later, he was found dead near his home, under extremely suspicious circumstances. What did he know that could have gotten him killed?

Wilson article on Iraq nukes/Niger, 7/6/03
Novak outing of Plame, 7/14/03.
Death of Kelly, 7/17/03 (three days later).
Connective tissue: Judith Miller (get to that in a moment).

Wilson didn't publish his whistleblow on Bush lies about Iraq nukes until July 6, 2003. Kelly was whistleblowing on Blair lies about Iraq nukes and other items several months before this, in May 2003. So Kelly was FIRST. And what was a tither in England was surely a tither in Washington DC as well. Cheney's alarm bells go off. Plame outing is already in progress (the WHIG meeting, the AF-1 memo), and it is CONVENIENT that she's married to Wilson. That was a little item Cheney was holding in his back pocket. He okayed the mission to Niger (no way he could not have done so--no mission like that undertaken without top level okay); he knew who Plame was and that Wilson and Plame were married; he also knew Wilson would find nothing in Niger (the whole thing was a crock, based on forgeries; he knew that--Niger trip was a wild goose chase.) Wilson marriage to Plame gives Cheney an excuse to shut her down, and make it look like Rovian political revenge. He's most concerned at this point about what else Kelly might know (it was the Blairites' concern as well), and in Plame NOT FINDING OUT.

According to Wilson, Wilson was calling around within the top levels of the Bush regime, to get an explanation of why/how/ by whom the nuke falsehood got into Bush's speech. He called Condi Rice. Through intermediaries, she says she's not interested in his information, but if he's so concerned about it, why doesn't he publish something? (--this, possibly from Cheney to Rice to Wilson--PUBLISH IT, WE DARE YOU!). Thus, the Plame outing, conceived long before on general concerns about CIA snooping on Bush Cartel WMDs, is triggered by the Kelly crisis (Kelly whistleblowing; Blair concerns about what else he knows), and unfolds, starting with Novak 7/14--to prevent Plame from finding out what David Kelly is, at that same moment, getting assassinated for (on 7/17).

One of Kelly's last emails is to Judith Miller--the one in which he warns of "many dark actors playing games". She also had used him as a major source in her book, "Germs." In the news article she writes about his death (NYT, 7/21/03) she fails to mention her connections to Kelly, and does not disclose the "dark actors" email. (It was later disclosed by his family.) Why does she hide her connections to Kelly at this critical moment in the WMD treason story? (I suspect that she furthermore put words in Kelly's mouth about U.S. troops lack of diligence in hunting for WMDs post-invasion in Iraq--just doesn't fit with whistleblower/changed viewpoint/change of heart Kelly--she "scrupulously" leaves out any quotation marks on those statements.)

After being outed to the press by the Blair gov't, and sent home without protection, Kelly was found dead on 7/18/03, near his home, outdoors in the rain, under a tree, having apparently slit one wrist and taken painkillers, and slowly bled to death all night. (Where was Brit intel surveillance when this was happening?) His other emails indicate that he was looking forward to his daughter's wedding and returning to Iraq, and thought the controversy surrounding him would blow over in a week. (It looks like he had assured the gov't that he would say no more.) He was a brilliant scientist, according to all reports (slitting one wrist--outdoors in the cold and rain?), and a strong-willed man who had stood up to Saddam Hussein and the Russians on WMD issues. Not the suicidal type; no suicide note; no evidence of depression. The "Lord Hutton" report BLAMED THE *BBC* FOR HIS DEATH, exonerated Blair & co., and ignored eyewitnesses and expert dissent on all sorts of anomalies at his death scene (body moved; not enough blood, etc.).

Whatever the internal fracas between him and his bosses and the Blairites, HE thought it was resolved--so why would he kill himself?--but he was nevertheless sensing the dark shadows around him (the "many dark actors playing games"). Given all of these facts, it seems quite likely to me that the Blairites now knew that he knew something really bad (way beyond "sexing up" of the intel docs), threatened him with prosecution (official secrets act; loss of pension) to find out what it was, then patted him on the head and sent him home, and had him offed. They were not about to trust his word that he wouldn't reveal the worst of it. (An alternative scenario is that he didn't just know about a plant to plot WMDs in Iraq; he is the one who foiled it.)

It's impossible to know what role Judith Miller might have played in Kelly's death (if any), but it's just too much of a coincidence that all this is happening in England, while all this other is happening in the U.S. at exactly the same time, on exactly the same issues--all of it simultaneous with the fruitless hunt for WMDs in Iraq (in which Miller was an enthusiastic participant)--and with Miller thickly involved on the one side (probably laundering Plame's identity to other reporters to protect Cheney, Libby and/or Rove), and peripherally involved on the other (with the oddity of trying to hide her connection to Kelly). (She, of course, was the prime mover of the Iraq war in the press--some call it "Judith Miller's war"--publishing numerous lies about Iraq WMDs straight from Ahmed Chalabi, on the front pages of the NYT, throughout the buildup to the invasion.)

There have been other hypotheses--that Plame was onto Saudi 9/11 money, or Cheney arms dealings, both quite credible hypothesis. Something BIG was at stake--beyond mere political talk about war lies and "sexing up" of intel docs (what modern war was ever perpetrated without with such talk and dissent?). The "something" that was at stake was something that merited the risk of treason charges (not to mention murder charges). And there seems to have been a kind of panic about it, in both cases. A panic to shut David Kelly up. A panic to shut Valerie Plame and her WMD network down (calling at least six reporters, to make sure it gets done, quickly).

As this story has unfolded, I've been trying to check my hypothesis against emerging facts-- the hypotheses that Wilson was set up, that Plame was the real target, and that the motivator, the trigger for the Plame outing, was not Wilson's article--7/6/03, that was just an excuse--but fear of what DAVID KELLY knew and might disclose, and Plame's ability to detect it, or verify it.

One of the holes in my theory was, how did Cheney get Wilson to write that article? Was he just counting on Wilson getting pissed off (so as to become an excuse to out Plame)? (Is that why this provable lie was put in Bush's SOTU speech?) Well, I just stumbled across Wilson's statement about Rice telling him to publish his complaint. That pretty much nails it for me, that Wilson was set up, and the target all along was Plame and her WMD network. (Plame may have recommended her husband, but Cheney OKAYED the trip--knowing Wilson would find nothing--and then just held the Plame-Wilson marriage in reserve, and used it opportunistically. Wilson phones Rice; she doesn't speak to Wilson directly, and so has time to consult with Cheney, then through intermediaries tells him to publish it. Was Rice doing something good here? Possibly, but I don't really think so. I think Wilson was being baited.)

Note: Joseph Wilson recently stated that both his wife and Judith Miller are "collateral damage" in the Bush regime's war on dissent. This statement does not at all fit with my suspicions of Miller.

And NO FACTS have emerged that directly point to a plot to plant WMDs in Iraq. It's just a hunch. But there sure are a lot of surrounding facts that make it a good working hypothesis for further investigation (including Miller's active participation in the hunt for WMDs in Iraq--to the point of annoying and threatening commanders in the field--she acted as if she KNEW they would be found, and was acutely disappointed when they weren't.) My theory fits the Kelly story. And it fits Bushites risking treason to prevent it from being discovered on this side of the Pond.

It also may explain the inexplicable: U.S. news monopoly reporters covering this story (the Plame outing) with some of them even seeming to become journalists again. If it was a plot to plant WMDs in Iraq (a truly scandalous deed, pointing to Cheney arms dealing), and Kelly stumbled upon it or foiled it (fits his character and state of mind at the time), and was killed to prevent his disclosing it (outright murder of an insider white guy), and Plame and the whole CIA WMD operation was outed to prevent them from finding it out (a treasonous act), then the Bushites have become so dirty, so unscrupulous and so out of control, that even the Corporate Rulers and other key Republicans are appalled, and have given the okay to clean house in Bushville. (I was surprised to find out that Joseph Wilson is apparently friends with James Baker--Baker has always struck me as the sort of Mafia lawyer who cleans the blood off the carpet, but I suppose he could be that and still have a bit of a conscience, or maybe has some investments that are at risk.) (Diebold? ES&S? Iran nuke energy?)

And Patrick Fitzgerald is a Republican.

---------------

Further caveat: Armchair conspiracy theorist, here. No insider knowledge. Just what I read in the papers and on the net. And I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as some are, about the various players and details. I just think this hypothesis is useful. That's why I'm putting it out here--especially the coincidence in time and theme with Kelly.

---------------

The answer to the stink in Washington DC is restoring our right to vote, by throwing Bushite electronic voting machine companies--Diebold, ES&S and brethren--out of the election business NOW--or, at the least, achieving some measure of election transparency with paper ballot backups, strict auditing and security, and no secret, proprietary programming code owned and controlled by major Bush donors and campaign chairs! The only place where we can get this done is in state/local jurisdictions, where the authority over election systems still resides, and where ordinary people still have some say. The bipartisan corruption in the electronic voting business at the state/local level is daunting, but it is nothing compared to the bipartisan corruption in Washington DC, and it is local and therefore much more fixable. See the DU Forum "2004 Election Results and Discussion" for information and action ideas:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. McGovern says:
"It is a safe bet that Joseph Wilson suspected this kind of skullduggery.  He nevertheless played it straight.  After hearing the bogus Iraq-story repeated in the January 28, 2003, State of the Union speech and ascertaining that it was based on little more than the original report, Wilson began to approach administration officials suggesting that they retract the story or he would in conscience be compelled to make public what had happened.  He was told, in effect, Go public; who will believe you?" --McGovern

Who McGovern is talking about, re "Go public," is Rice. I just remembered her bit about "the mushroom cloud" --which makes it even less likely that she was trying to do good, in urging Wilson to publish, but was, rather, part of the trap--trying to GET him to whistleblow, as excuse to out and completely disable Plame and her WMD network.

As to Wilson suspecting skulduggery (the Iraq nuke claim getting into Bush's SOTU speech, despite his report), I agree that that is a "safe bet," at that point. But I don't know if he suspects a much longer term, well thought out, plot to out Plame, in which he became an element of the plot at whatever point Cheney learned who Wilson was married to (early on), and certainly when Cheney requested and/or okayed the Niger trip. To back up a bit: Cheney/Rumsfeld and the CIA were at war over the falsification of Iraq WMD intel as all this occurred. So it's quite possible that Wilson went to Niger KNOWING that the Iraq nuke charge was a crock, and soon verified that it was. Why he did the trip, then, would be more to support the better people within the gov't and even within the Bush regime, and to prevent a grave error by the US and its president (even if it was Bush), by a thorough investigation and first-hand report. In that sense, it wouldn't be a "wild goose chase" that Cheney permitted Wilson to go on. But, lurking behind it all, was the Cheney intent to destroy Plame and CIA weapons intel, and he was just biding his time on how to use it.

If Wilson's 7/6/03 article was such a blow to the Bush regime, and so dangerous a thing (dissent, my god!!!), why did Rice so blithely encourage Wilson to publish it? Doesn't make sense. What makes sense is that they WANTED him to publish, thought they could easily discredit him, and here was their golden opportunity to disable Plame and her eyes and ears around the world, and make it look like politics. And with the gathering storm in England--their chief weapons inspector off the reservation--the matter was urgent.

I don't mean to downplay Rove's venomous spite toward dissenters (and toward any opposition whatsoever--Max Cleland, John Kerry). I think he is the designer and chief culprit in Stolen Election II. I just suspect that Cheney was using Rove's reputation as an element in the plot. Rove eagerly went after Wilson on cue (--an easy task, given his lapdog press--I don't think much of Rove's vaunted P.R. "genius"). And now Rove appears to be "holding the bag"--unless Fitzgerald intends to, and is able to, dig deeper.

I also don't mean to downplay the Bush Cartel's raving lunacy against dissenters. Quite frankly, I suspect them of killing a dissenter in this country (Paul Wellstone). I think the generally touted story of Rove's revenge--a sort of out of control lashing out at a critic, and not thinking about treason--is possible, but it doesn't fit as well with the facts as does a long term Cheney intention to disable/dismantle the CIA (lots of evidence for that), and turn it into a house of yes men, who will support or be silent about (or are too stupid to notice) his evil war profiteering; and that the plot against Plame was triggered (moved forward? quickened? helped along by Condi Rice) out of panic at the Kelly whistleblowing in England (fear of something he knew that could hurt them badly, that Plame might find out).

Kelly, the Brits active chief weapons inspector for Iraq, who had visited Iraq, post-invasion, in June, would likely have known more about that situation, on the ground, than Wilson or Plame; and be more in a position to stumble upon a plot to plant WMDs, or some other info that radically changed his viewpoint and caused him to want to alert the public. Kelly had been party to the intel docs, had tried to make them more accurate and honest, but had kept his dissent inside. He supported the invasion--wanted Saddam out. There is no obvious reason for him to want to go public after the invasion, to call into doubt the thing that he had wanted done. It very much looks like something happened to change his mind.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Kick as My head spins
Too "many dark actors playing games"!
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. I agree, many aspects don't make sense.
Edited on Tue Jul-19-05 08:31 PM by snot
The idea that saying Plame sent Wilson would somehow discredit him--I still don't get how that was supposed to work.

Also, there were plenty of other voices out there besides Wilson's disputing the alleged evidence that Saddam posed a threat, and most of the media and the public seemed to happily determined to ignore them. So why go to special effort or undertake special risk just to undermine Wilson?

And they had to recognize, leaking WAS risky. Here they are proclaiming their urgent concern to protect the U.S. from WMD out of one side of their mouths, while out of the other side they're destroying an important anti-WMD security asset.

And doing it by having senior WH officials leak to 6 reporters who, it might be supposed, might sooner or later reveal their sources' identities--was there no smarter way to do this?

And yet the fact that it was leaked to 6 people seems to indicate it was indeed a deliberate campaign, not just a slip-up.

Finally, Judith Miller's fortitude seems a little out of proportion, if all she's protecting is Rove's right to destroy security assets--and even apart from proportionality, since it's now public knowledge that Rove blew Plame's cover, mustn't there be something beyond that that's still secret and that she doesn't want to testify about?

It's very clear that something's rotten in the State of *; but there's a lot that's not clear at all.


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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. Brilliant Analysis Fucking Brilliant PP
BTW Andrew Card killed Kelly just an FYI. Resigned shortly thereafter and has kind of been forgotten too. HHHMMMMM. I have a friend who has been sharing info with me for the past 2 years and everything she has told me has turned out true. You have just spoken her words.

Except you don't have the Miller story ironed out. That's OK you just haven't been privy to the buzz.....SHE IS CHENEY'S MISTRESS and she knows the entire story. Cheney's ego is as big as his dick I'm told and he did a bunch of pillow talking. She is in jail as a means of protective custody. Fitzgerald wants to keep her alive even though Judith is being stupid and trying to starve her already anorexic self to death.

Rove is the fall guy. Fitz knows this. This WILL be the story of the century. Stay tuned. I love how your mind works and your writing is beautiful BTW. :loveya:
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #15
28. Brilliant analysis, all right!
And re this: 'I don't think much of Rove's vaunted P.R. "genius,"' I totally agree. What he's good at is using petty, back-alley tactics, sneak attacks, trickery and back-stabbing in his own little "shock and awe" plays. They often work, but it's not because he's a PR Einstein.

And I concur that the confusing signals Wilson got from Cheney, whether through Libby or Rice or heavenonlyknows what mouthpiece, were part of a very carefully laid TRAP. He's probably still kicking himself for not seeing through the plan before he was engaged in fulfilling their wishes.

However, I just finished reading the DSM and have confirmed for myself beyond a shadow of a doubt now that Condi Rice is playing a more significant role than many realize in the otherwise-goodolboys club adventures of the Bush Cabal. She is bright, very good at what she does, and can talk to almost any persons, it seems, in any country and gain their attentive ear and their respect. Whether she -- or any of her team -- can gain the *continued* compliance of all the dark actors in this grand stageplay remains to be seen. I feel it is critically important to the eventual success of the Iraq invasion deception plot that such compliance on the part of anyone who has vital information and could dish the dirt publicly in a heartbeat if crossed or betrayed can be relied upon over the long haul.

And the long haul is far advanced at this point. The strain is probably wearing on many of those who find themselves very deeply embroiled in the lies and coverups. Some mighty incongruent people seem to have been drawn into the Big Plot for concocting justification to bomb and invade Iraq. If people can be incongruent. ;)

So when some of those -- probably some near the bottom of this particular food chain -- see that they are paying a heavy price in terms of their self-respect and dignity, when they tire of being forced to keep on telling lies they never really felt good about telling in the first place ... then what?

If ever there was a strange marriage, IMO, it seems to be the one between the next Tricky Dick and Condi Rice. I mean, picture 'em, ya know? How odd, how truly unlikely a pair they seem to be, on the surface. Yet both have been with the boy king since he was a boy prince first learning how to play the game. They know how to work together, and something tells me their combined IQs, unfortunately, present a fairly respectable number. And it's not just book genius, either, it's practical know-how, real skill in the real world, in handling *people*, and with reliable results. They are proven plotters with successful results in their respective resumes.

I think we need to keep an eye on Condi as well as Dick as this whole thing continues to play out. It seems her personal skill and adroitness on the international scene helped in a big way to persuade some of the UK crowd that W's objectives could be met re regime change in Iraq without costing Blair's government too much too bear. That alone is a significant issue.

Does tend to makes one's head spin trying to keep all the major players in view at the same time, doesn't it?..... *Whew* :dilemma: :smoke:
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
20. .
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. Why Plame Matters
What Mr. McGovern wrote yesterday...



Why Plame Matters

Ray McGovern
July 18, 2005

Ray McGovern works at Tell the Word, the publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in Washingon, DC.  He had a 27-year career as an analyst at CIA.

The significance of the Plame affair is not about former U.S. ambassador Joseph Wilson; or his wife, Valerie Plame; or Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby; or even President George W. Bush's alter ego, Karl Rove.  White House v. Wilsons is about Iraq, where our sons and daughters—and many others—are daily meeting violent death. And it's about manipulation.

It's about how our elected representatives were deceived into voting for an unprovoked war and what happened when one man stood up and called the administration's bluff.  And it's about the perfect storm now gathering, as more lies are exposed (whether in journalists' e-mails or in the minutes of high-level meetings at 10 Downing Street), as guerrilla war escalates in Iraq, and as more and more American citizens find themselves agreeing with Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., that administration leaders seem to be "making it up as they go along."

It wasn't envisaged this way by the naïve "neoconservative" ideologues that got us into the quagmire in Iraq.  They may still believe that all will be well if the Iraqi people can only get it into their heads that we are liberators, not occupiers.

So much smoke is being blown over White House v. Wilsons that it is becoming almost impossible to see the forest for the trees.  Bewildered houseguests from outside the Beltway throw up their hands: "It's all just politics...and character assassination."  And that may well be precisely the impression the media wish to leave with us.  Otherwise, left to our own devices, we might conclude they served us poorly with the indiscriminate, hyper-patriotic cheerleading that helped slide us into the worst foreign policy debacle in our nation's history.

Our weekend guests had a hard time trying to understand why the White House two years ago blew the cover of CIA operative Valerie Plame, wife of former ambassador Joseph Wilson.  Sure, Wilson had caught and exposed the Bush administration in a very serious lie.  But almost immediately, top officials conceded that Ambassador Wilson was essentially correct in dismissing the flimsy report that Iraq was trying to acquire uranium in Africa.

CONTINUED...

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050718/why_plame_matters.php



Now THERE's a Patriot.

Thanks for the heads-up, G_j! Much obliged.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. White House v. Wilsons is about Iraq
which is why it is also about Halliburton, Carlyle, torure, the Geneva Convention and on and on. It is all connected.

"the the worst foreign policy debacle in our nation's history"

I hate to agree that he is probably correct.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Iraq = MI-Complex at Work
These are the same turds and slugs who made a killing off of Vietnam and the Cold War at play. Their fathers and grandfathers made a killing off of World War II and Korea. Their ancestors did the same in World War I, the Spanish-American War, the U.S. Civil War, and a whole lot of war throughout every corner of the globe. They are the merchants of death.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. sad but true
and what a huge bloated monster it is!
not the earmark of a "peace loving" country
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
29. McGovern : Cheney Wasn't Involved Either... Right
Ray McGovern | Cheney Wasn't Involved Either... Right

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/072005C.shtml

By now it should be clear that the White House assault on former ambassador Joseph Wilson and his wife had much less to do with personalities than with the "particular lie" that Wilson exposed. I believe this helps to explain the highly unusual role Vice President Dick Cheney played regarding the forged "intelligence" about Iraq seeking to acquire uranium from Niger - the source of that particular lie.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. This is Cheney ......
in every sense of the word. It is the result of the fine work is secret intelligence organizations, structured on the model proposed by Tom Charles Huston under Cheney's godfather, Richard Nixon.
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