THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT CLARK that gives us hope/confidence

[opihimoimoi]

In the end, Clark will be among the top 3 contenders. He will do well. If given the opportunity, he will rock, he will build, he will heal.

Bush is a destroyer. Take a look at his miserable record.

[WesWing2004]

1. I feel no obligation to defend

Clark against naysayers and trolls.

Clark is doing a fantastic job defending himself. He is solid, honest and engaging. He WILL be POTUS next November.

[Solomon]

22. Well said.

I'm surprised at people not wanting to accept him because he only recently became a democrat.

But you say it beautifically. We don't need to defend him.

[DemExpat]

2. Yeah. opi,.......me too......

I also hope that he can help rebuild what has been destroyed.

:kick:

:hi:

DemEx

[union_maid]

6. If he wins the whole enchilada he has the best chance of fixing things

Not one of them will be able to put this country back together again easily. Bush has broken so much. I believe that if Clark can prevail, he'll sweep some others into office with him and he'll have a lot of the country behind him. He, out of all of them, could go into the presidency with serious leverage to get an agenda passed and I do believe it will be a vastly superior agenda to what we have. None of them are going to be able to produce everything we'd like, however.

[EagleEye]

8. You "believe" it would be a superior agends?

Doesn't it bother you that you have to "believe" because you don't know what his agenda is?

[union_maid]

20. Not yet it doesn't

I've read where he stands on most major issues. I'd be very surprised if an intelligent and moderate/liberal agenda doesn't come out of all that.

[RichM]

3. I see it just the opposite. His candidacy is disturbing; questions about

him are unanswered; and the evidence so far is not reassuring.

I don't disagree with your prediction that he will be in the top 3 contenders. However, I see no reason so far to believe that this is any more positive an outcome, than, say, the prediction that Arnold will be in the top 2 contenders in Calif.

[EagleEye]

4. Gen Shelton Questioned Clark's CHaracter and Integrity

Shelton is no lite-weight and a true Dem. I just htink we need to know more about Clark.

[Pepperbelly]

9. Shelton a Democrat?

LOLOLOLOL

Where in the WORLD did you get this?

[gulliver]

10. Link for Shelton being a Dem?

I'd like a link for that. In the quote where he says Clark won't get his (Shelton's vote), Shelton specifically says "I'm not going to say whether I'm a Republican or a Democrat."

I'll assume you are "misinformed" about Shelton being a Democrat until I see some proof.

[RichM]

11. Oh, the irony. Shelton criticizes Clark, so Clarkies say Shelton "isn't a

Dem." Forgotten already is the fact that Clark's own credentials as a "Dem" are minimal at best: he voted for the 2 worst Republicans in history (prior to GWB), gives speeches at Republican fund raisers, publicly praised GWB in May 2001, & sings the praises of all the boys down at PNAC!

Lower down in this thread a poster angrily demands to know what Shelton thinks about Shrub. Forgotten already are the very nice things Clark himself was saying about Shrub, until quite recently.

IOW, here one sees Clarkies defending Clark, by attacking Shelton, on the basis of criteria that Clark himself would not pass muster on!!

It's too funny.

[watercolors]

12. I also voted once for Regan

also Ike, does that make me a repuke, we grow and learn as we get older. Iv've been an Independant for all my voting life, last year registered as a Dem, does that make me minimal at best also?

[RichM]

17. Let's put it this way: if you were running for president, I would want to

understand exactly why you voted for Reagan & Ike, as well as a lot of other things, before I'd vote for you!

Your history doesn't make you "minimal at best" as a human being, but it makes you at least questionable as a presidential candidate.

[Clark Can WIN]

38. So only a partisan hack should be President?

Presidents have to work with people on both sides of the fence or absolutely NOTHING gets done. I want someone who can play nice with others to further a truly progressive agenda with credibility.

That's why Clark is my guy.

[Pepperbelly]

33. if you cannot keep up, RichM ...

please take notes.

The original post to which the replies were posted asserted that Selton was a "true Dem." The writer was asked for proof of that astonishing claim. Thus, it is entirely relevant.

[Clark Can WIN]

37. misdirection

you still haven't backed up your claim that Shelton is a dem. Can you?

[bearfartinthewoods]

65. not as funny as this!

[11cents]

16. Pretty clueless

You've said Shelton is a Democratic in several threads, a view apparently based on the fact that he was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs in the Clinton administration. You apparently don't get the most basic of facts about the military: it's a nonpartisan institution and its officers are not political appointees.

Shelton, BTW, was one of the guys who engineered Clark's firing.

[carpetbagger]

29. Shelton's a true dem?

Provide some evidence.

[MIMStigator]

35. "professional disagreement, Shelton took it personally"

Clark has already explained. Asked and answered.

[Kahuna]

66. But like a cowardly repuke weasel, he didn't provide

specifics. Why should I care what he thinks?

[Orangepeel]

5. I know what Clark says. But what has he done? (positive please)

This isn't a bash -- although I'm a Dean supporter, I am open minded and I really want to know more about Clark. I read what he had to say in his NH meeting and the debate on Thursday and I was intrigued. But, given that he doesn't have a long history in the party or a political record to scruitinize, I need more than words. With other candidates (none of whom are perfect, I admit), I can look at what they've done and get a good idea of how they would govern as President. With Clark, I don't.

I do know that he filed a brief in support of the University in the SCOTUS affirmative action case (good) and I have the idea from somewhere that he supported gays in the military during Clinton's presidency (true?). But what else?

For example, does he have a record of supporting women in the military (e.g., reproductive rights, sexual harrassment policies, allowing them in combat, etc.)? Again, I know he SAYS he's pro-choice, but is there anything on record about women?

[opihimoimoi]

19. And the Shrub?? What did he do prior to the selection other than fail?

If it comes down to Clark or Shrub..... this limpet goes Clark and takes a chance he gonna do good. With Bush, you know its gonna be bad.

[Orangepeel]

31. but the current question is NOT "clark vs. shrub"

it's "clark vs. dean vs. braun vs. edwards vs. gephardt vs. graham vs. lieberman vs. kerry vs. kucinich vs. sharpton"

I am interested in and optimistic about a clark candidacy, but, with the other candidates (except sharpton), I can get a feel for how they would govern and where they would compromise (because they will all have to compromise).

With Clark, all I have are statements he's made (positive and negative) with very little discussion of actions.

He's had a long and distinguished career managing people. All I want are some descriptions of things he did in that career that indicate that's he really will be as progressive as he sounds.

[The Magistrate]

60. Actually, Ma'am, It Is

The only question in assessing the various Democratic Party candidates is which will do a better job of defeating the current usurper in a national election.

The competition among the various Democratic candidates ought to consist in displaying their methods of attack against the current usurper, rather than in attacking one another. That will only do damage to the eventual nominee. If all compete in attacking the current usurper, a great body of criticism of the reptile will come to the attention of the people, and that will greatly help the eventual nominee, by having prepared the ground for the final campaign.

[Kahuna]

67. WRONGO! It's about MY candidate alone. And I want..

MY candidate to win the primaries even if he polls the worse against bush. </sarcasm>

[Clark Can WIN]

41. I will try to get some specifics on this if you are interested

I know he was in charge of the education, housing and quality of life of 100,000+ troops and their families in Europe. I could get back to you later.

[Orangepeel]

43. thanks, I would appreciate it

If he is as progressive as he sounds on stage (and I really hope that he is), there have to be examples of things he did in his career that reflect it (particularly in regard to human rights and women's issues, given what he was in charge of)

[Clark Can WIN]

46. OK, Ill put you on my buddy list and get you some of the

specific type info you asked for. I have to work in a little bit so it won't be till later, but I will deliver for you.

I like your guy too BTW. So cheers. :toast: Here's to us.

[cally]

63. Could you send the info to me, too

I'm very interested in specific actions. Thanks.

[Kahuna]

68. I saw him in NH Sat. He was so genuine , sweet and classy...

I can't wait to watch the video I made.

[MoonRiver]

7. I feel Clark is absolutely our best hope, not just of beating *

but restoring US stature and credibility in the world. I also think he can turn *'s cratering economy around. Regarding the latter though, it will help a lot if we get a congressional majority, at least in the Senate.

General Clark rocks! :kick:

[Egnever]

13. Why?

he is a decent looking guy. Speaks well. but other than that why is he our best hope? I just dont see it. I would like to be able to but so far I see nothing special about him

[MoonRiver]

14. I like what I've heard about his policy positions, and,

I believe he has the best chance of beating Bush. What's not to love about that package? :loveya: General!

[Kahuna]

69. Because he CARES. He actually cares about us ..

little people. It's not about his ego. He's giving up a lot to do this for US. And I respect him and love him for it.

[gulliver]

15. "he will rock, he will build, he will heal"

I couldn't agree more. Every time I see Clark, I'm amazed at how engaging and intelligent he is. And Clark is someone every American (Dem and Repub alike) could respect.

[Kahuna]

70. I swear he's "engaging." I've seen it with my own eyes...

This guy is gonna open a can of whoop ass on the bushies and repukes that they ain't never gonna forget.

[LWolf]

18. I disagree.

I'm one of those fringe voters; while I've been determined to stay the course and vote for whoever is nominated for the dems, Clark does not fill me with hope or confidence. The opposite; the possibility of his getting the nomination is a hope killer. It kills my hope for a true shift in the direction our nation has chosen.

We can take bush. At least, we can if:

We can guarantee a clean, honest election.

Everyone who wants to evict him is welcomed into the process. All of those 3rd party voters and non voters who have already lost hope and confidence in the system. They have been coming back in droves. Coming back to work for candidates that give them hope and confidence. I've been meeting with and talking to them all over the country. Their stance? They don't have a lot of confidence in democrats. They are former dems who felt disenfranchised by the party's shift to the right, and they are people who've never voted. They're coming back, and coming in to help in the fight.

I don't think that contingent will vote for Clark. I think they'll return to their 3rd parties or to not voting at all. And I think we need them to beat *. I think Clark appeals to moderate repubs and dems. I don't think he can win the rest of us. And I don't know if we're going to beat * without the rest of us along.

[opihimoimoi]

21. Thanks all for this hopeful thread re Gen Clark. In the end, he will be

our star QB. Lets hope he don drop the ball/

[ewagner]

23. I want to refrain

from jumping wholeheartedly on the Clark bandwagon, because I don't know how he's going to hold up under the scrutiny of intense media attention.

Having said that however, I can also say that after watching his NH town meeting last night, I was really impressed.

I have been mentally playing around with the thought of having a General in the White House and I understand the hesitancy many have with that concept. Perhaps because I have been a local elected executive, I am intrigued by the thought of the leadership he could provide. Do not, my friends, underestimate the value of leadership.Generals are experienced at providing two important things: Organization and Leadership. Both are sorely needed in Washington these days.

As far as Dean is concerned, I can envision him providing organization because of his experience and, to some degree, also providing leadership also, but there's something different about Clark's version of these two elements that allow me to feel comfortable with him.

However, patience is required. Let's see how Clark holds up.

[opihimoimoi]

27. Yes, they all look good. Any one of them can be the Prez and do a

much better job than the shrub.

But only one can be the Prez.

Please let it be the right one to carry the ball all the way to the end zone.

[Kool Kitty]

50. Oh, Wesley seems tough enough to me.

I think he'll hold up fine.

[Kahuna]

71. He needs us. He's letting us know that he needs us to

be on his team to be partners in rebuilding our beloved country. It's not about him, it's about us. That's what I love about him.

[Pastiche423]

40. If clark wins the nom

I will leave the Democratic Party. He does not represent the party I have been w/for 31 years. I doubt I will be alone.

He was put in this race to divide. It makes me so sad that some don't see this.

[Clark Can WIN]

42. ....

:tinfoilhat:

[Pepperbelly]

45. another person who doesn't like elections to decide things ...

if she doesn't get her way, she picks up her toys and goes home.

And yet would also expect everyone to support her candidate if he gets the nomination. Go figure.

on edit: sorry you feel this way but if that is the result of my candidate winning, take it easy and enjoy life. Luv ya. Mean it.

[Pastiche423]

47. My way?

No, the Democratic way. I refuse to be pulled even further to the right. The pull has been going on for almost two decades now and will soon snap. When it snaps, the liberals will be forced to leave the party that has been deserting them, lo these many years.

Presently I support four of the candidates - all liberal candidates. In order to right the disasterous path our country, we must turn left.

Voting ABB accomplishes nothing. We need CHANGE! We need to get to the rotting roots of what is wrong w/our country. More of the same will not and can not accomplish that.

I can not pick up my toys and go home. My home moved, while I remained at the same address - the Democratic address.

[Clark Can WIN]

48. My favorite part was

"put in the race" I didn't graduate first in my class, I am not a Rhodes scholar, but I still feel pretty damn certain I would know it if I were a GOP operative. :tinfoilhat: It was called the DRAFT Clark movement, not the install Clark on behalf of Karl Rove movement. :crazy:

[Kahuna]

73. New meme. Clark wasn't drafted. Those 50,000 letters..

we all written by the DLC. It was all a ruse to install a DLC puppet.

[Kahuna]

72. Sorry to lose you. I really mean that. But we can't keep

sending up losers to knuckle up with these republican thugs. We need a warrier. Wes is the best to deliver the whoop ass they so richly deserve.

[rasputin1952]

24. I'm with you Opi...

While all of the candidates have some good ideas; they don't have the "presence" to move very far into the process.

I thinck Clark watched, learned, and waited, before moving into the fray. As with anyone of high intelligence, he is taking the best of the ideas and discarding the others. This strategy will make him a front runner.

Two of the other candidates have shown me some of themselves I hadn't seen before: Braun and Sharpton. Braun is a fighter, and she brings up excellent points; Sharpton is also a fighter, and he stings hard when he brings up ideas that everyone thinks of, but no one ewants to speak about. Sharpton has a lot of baggage, but he can be the attack man in any confrontation. Braun, unfortunately because of gender and race, hasn't got a chance. But her exchanges have shown me that she is qualified to take on the big guys, and win.

Clark....IMHO is the best chance we have to oust the monkey in the cage. I will tape those debates for my great grandchildren...they may need it to catch a chuckle as they dig out of the hole this administration has put us in.

Clark: "You can read my military record, why can't we find yours?"

Bush: "It's been 'archived', and placed with Reagan's, and my daddy's "papers".

[opihimoimoi]

26. "Why we can't find yours..." I luv it. The Shrub cannot even come close to

Dean, Clark, Kerry.

But Clark stands out only because of his rank in the Military.

Being #1 when Graduating at West Point,

Rhoades Scholar,

4 Star Gen, they all add up to

Viable and Probable Candidate who comes along at the right time and the right place.

Bush will need a face lift from those growing furrowed lines

Come, we hunt for pine nuts

[Clark Can WIN]

44. Come, we hunt for pine nuts :-)

[kodi]

55. have clark ask bush in a debate..."what war did you seve in mr president?"

"the teenager war?"

[noiretextatique]

25. there is something about fair elections that gives me hope

but not much confidence. if ALL eligible voters have the opportunity to vote, and if ALL the votes are counted, then we will prevail. if this doesn't happen (like the last time)...it won't matter who the democratic candidate is...we will all lose again (like the last time).

[opihimoimoi]

28. I feel this will be the election of all elections.

The people are pissed and will vote the booger out. The Pubs are scared shitless.

[noiretextatique]

30. i think you are right...and when they pull their dirty tricks

i don't think people will stand for it this time.

[rman]

32. something? what is it?

"will rock, will build, will heal"?
how come?

Because Bush is a destroyer?
We already knew that, and i don't see how that causes Clark to rock. Yet that seems to be your argumentation.

[MIMStigator]

34. yeaup, he's got what it takes

Wesley Clark will be our next president.

[Clark Can WIN]

36. I have never in my life

felt about a candidate the way I do about Clark. Not even the big dog and I loved him too. With Clark I can dare to dream of things I never thought would be possible. Like making it cool to be a Democrat in my state, like a Democratic administration that can cut the pentagon budget and redirect the money to the people who need it WITHOUT being called a wimpy, soft headed socialist. National health care with a focus on wellness. Admiration AND respect in the world community. ZERO dependence on foreign energy. Alternative clean energy technology. Transparency and accountability in government. The patriot act in the toilet. Equal time restored in the media.

O8)

[Pepperbelly]

39. Yep and ...

folk just don't want to even listen.

I don't understand.

[opihimoimoi]

49. Bush is Toast.....

Ashes even.

[eagler]

51. Clark mentioned one thing at the end of his town hall meeting last night

that validated him in my opinion. He said that we need to revive the Fairness Doctrine . He has a firm grasp of what we need to restore for the sake of democracy.

[opihimoimoi]

52. I concur, The FD should be restored. We need more fairness

in America.

Come, Rose Apple season, we go pick wild apples in the mountains.

[Cheswick2.0]

53. I love your posts Opi, but I don't feel that way about Clark....

at least not yet.

The way I feel is that there is something about Clark's candidacy that smacks of clever mass marketing. The kind of mass marketing that urges you to buy quick (like an infomercial) before you have any idea if the product is what you think it is.

Deans Campaign kind of hit me the same way.

Great now I have both camps mad at me.

[Kahuna]

74. I'm not mad at you Cheswick. I have always respected

your opinions. I know you will support whomever is nominated when the time comes.

[radfringe]

54. for years - we've been looking for a leader

that gives hope and confidence

As for Clark, I'm reserving my opinion on him for awhile, let's see how he does in the political battlefield

Meanwhile - my "yardstick" for candidates, most of it is based on "gut reactions". hard to determine how effective someone will be until you see them at work in the office they are running for

How do he/she stand on the issues?
How do he/she stand on the issues that are most important to me?
What's his/her message? Does it give me confidence or make me shrug?
Does he/she have what it takes to get the job done?
Do I sit up and take notice when I read/see him/her or do I roll my eyes and yawn?

[opihimoimoi]

56. Yes, it will all play put in the end..., whether it be Clark, Kerry, or

Dean, it don matter/

None are perfect people.

But all are better than the loser we got now.

[DemExpat]

57. I want to kick this post up because it's like a breath of fresh air

here in GD.....

Clark is the only candidate who gives me hope for the near future too, Opi, although I also will be thrilled to vote for ANY Dem nominee...

:kick: :kick:

DemEx

[Crewleader]

58. Keep The Positive Threads Going For All Candidates!

Supporters' support your candidates!

:dem: kick up for Clark Supporters'

[opihimoimoi]

59. Heya Dem/Crew..... Mahalo Nui Loa

Thanks guys.

GO DEMs

[im4edwards]

61. well I'm glad he gives you hope but leave "me" out of your "us"

But I cannot find hope or confidence in someone with no record and questionable remarks.

I'll stick with a known quantity.

[RandomUser]

62. There's a thread around here

listing some of the progressive accomplishments Clark has made if you're willing to dig through all the mess on the forum. It was started by someone who wanted proof of any actual deeds (not words) that Clark had done in life. There were some surprising nuggets of information that people dug up, with actual references and hyperlinks to lots of stuff that he's accomplished. It's buried here somewhere by all the Clark-bashing threads that repeat themselves over and over. And it's the reason many of us grow tired of responding to the accusations. We respond, refute, give links, and then it gets buried by a new wave repeating the same arguments and debunked attacks, almost as if we never responded.

[im4edwards]

64. yes I saw it, thanks.

and if it helped you then I'm glad. It didn't have the same effect on me.