time to discuss Opus Dei again

[bobbieinok]

what is this very conservative Roman Catholic organization????

how many on the SCOTUS are members??? Scalia? Thomas? (Roberts?)

what does it stand for??? is it an underground, stealth weapon of the Vatican????

I've read some about it but can't quite figure it out.....20+ years ago what I read made it sound very omnious.......much on the internet makes it sound like an innocuous interest group

what do you know/suspect about the group?????

[CatholicEdHead]

1. Only Scalia is Opus Dei

There has been no confirmation at all on the Roberts Opus Dei rumors.

[deadparrot]

2. Well, here's their website:

http://opusdei.org/

Though I wouldn't believe much of that. Admittedly, though, I'm biased.

This is their "rival" site, of sorts, about people's testimonies from the inside.
http://odan.org/

I did attend a very conservative Catholic HS, and I am actually very close with two girls who are members of OD. I suppose I could try to answer any questions people might have, though.

[Name removed]

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[DemBones DemBones]

11. Their bodies, their choices.

Yes, they have a tradition of wearing a hairshirt under their clothes and causing themselves (just themselves) pain as a sacrifice. People have always done such things for religious reasons, not just for Christian reasons, either.

It's also a way of identifying with the victimhood of Christ, as all Catholics do when they fast during Lent.

Their bodies, their choices.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

24. Did the deleted message advocate outlawing it?

If not, we're also perfectly free to point at it and saying, "that's sick." (Which it is.)

[Joy Anne]

3. Thomas used to be Catholic

but got divorced, remarried, and listed himself as Anglican the last I heard.

Opus Dei is a right-wing outfit that was very prominent in Franco's Spain.

I don't remember the details, but there's a priest in the DC area charged with converting highly placed right-wing types, so far including Robert Novak, Sen. Sam Brownback, and the financial commentator on CNBC whose name I can't remember.

Oh, well, no doubt somebody else's brain is working better than mine tonight.

[LiviaOlivia]

4. Here's a recent AP article

An Opus Dei priest defends self-punishment
By Richard Ostling
The Associated Press
Article Last Updated: 07/29/2005 11:37:03 PM


http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_2900767

[HockeyMom]

5. Opus Dei

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_dei


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prominent_members_of_Opus_Dei

[Mr_Spock]

6. Some interesting insight in the "The Da Vinci Code" by Dan Brown

Yeah, it's a novel, but it's supposed to be based on facts.

[spindoctor]

20. Keywords: "supposed" and "based on"

There is very little factual in the DVC story line.

It still is a great read :)

[Mr_Spock]

21. I choose to believe anything that inserts a stick into the old white bigot

eyes (male white bigot - i.e. republicans)! The nice thing about these sorts of stories about "legends" is that they can't be proved either way! I can choose to believe every word that says otherwise and nobody can prove me wrong :D

[EVDebs]

8. Robert Hanssen is Opus Dei also....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen

and most of the CIA's leadership (Donovan, Casey, Colby, Angleton, Dulles, you get the picture) were Knights of Malta.

BTW, the phony P2 Freemasonic 'lodge' was a nice touch in the Italian operations to keep NATO's southern flank from going communist, plus moneylaundering/trafficking and mafia 'plausible deniability'.

Oh, and Robert Novak is an Opus Dei also now. But his Operation Mockingbird credentials haven't been looked into yet nor has Judith Miller's. Wonder why por favor ?

[DemBones DemBones]

9. A few notes. . .

Opus Dei says that membership is not secret, they just don't make public a list of members, letting it be up to the members to tell others they belong to Opus Dei. Which is the same thing Skinner does with DU, really.

Opus Dei says that Scalia and Thomas are NOT members, all rumours to the contrary. Roberts wasn't in the news when they made that statement or we could have their word on him, too.

It would seem that people with a busy career would have a hard time finding time for Opus Dei or similar groups (Daily Mass attendance, lots of prayer time and good works are expected of members.)

Much of this fear of Opus Dei seems to be based on the same old--same old lies about the Roman Catholic Church that were told by the Know-Nothings and the KKK.

[Name removed]

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[DemBones DemBones]

12. I didn't, nor do I plan to. Opus Dei is

too conservative for me. I'd rather drink beer and dance at Knights of Columbus parties.

Prove to me that they're hurting anyone else or breaking any law and I'll oppose them.

Otherwise, why is it your concern what Opus Dei members do?

[Eloriel]

13. What kind of proof do you need to know they're fascists

and that alone is reason enough to oppose them?

I understand you're Catholic, and I respect that. But goodness, your response in defending them is a little kneejerk for my taste. They've been discussed here at length and objectively enough that their basic nature and political bent ought to be quite clear.

[DemBones DemBones]

14. Show me that they are fascists and

I'll oppose them.

Just don't cite unreliable sources like a novel loosely based on fact or wikipedia, where anyone can edit entries.

[Eloriel]

19. Well, you can poison the well for ANY source, I'm sure, BUT

here are some links you may want to explore. Or not.

Google Search http://www.google.com/search?q=Opus+Dei&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

And these were from the 1st page of google results. You might be particularly interested in the first one listed:

Opus Dei In the United States
By James Martin, S.J.
AMERICA for February 25, 1995
Copyright America Press 1995
James Martin, S.J., is an associate editor of America.
http://www.americamagazine.org/articles/martin-opusdei.cfm
What priest was fired from his job as an editor of a U.S. Catholic magazine by the new pope ???

Unofficial Opus Dei Home Page
(Good and Bad)
http://www.mond.at/opus.dei/

Opus Dei Awareness Network
"to provide education, outreach and support to people who have been adversely affected by Opus Dei"
http://www.odan.org/

Wikipedia
(I thought the article sounded pretty even-handed, frankly)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_Dei

Opus Dei links
collected by Rick A. Ross Institute (whatever that is??)
http://www.rickross.com/groups/opus.html

Hardball Transcript
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8160121/

Opus Dei Files (all positive)
http://gabriel.mps.ohio-state.edu/opusdei.htm



Edit: This FAQ looks to be pretty good, with postive and negative, including some quotes from the Founder:

6.2 Q: Why are they Fascistic?

A: The term ``Fascist'' has created some confusion. The ideology of Opus Dei has all the features commonly found in the abstract political category of ``fascism'' even though it is a very special form of this ideology, since it is mixed with elements of the Christian religion. Reading Escriva's book ``The Way'' with the above definition of fascism in mind, it is evident that he is the perfect Fascist. Here are some indicators: In #849 he directly states that he is against Voltaire's ideas.

Fascist loathe Liberty:

They have this law and order mentality: every thing should be under the control of the leaders. Large chapters in the book are about leadership and blind obedience. I guess Hitler would have loved this book. (read #56 till #80) Of course, they want to control the information you get. Like in #339:

You shall not buy books without the advice of an experienced Christian. It is so easy to buy something useless or mischievous. Often people believe they are carrying a book under their arm ... but they only carry a load of mud. (Josemaria Escriva, The Way, #339)
http://www.mond.at/opus.dei/opus.dei.uo.faq.html#bad

-- much more at link --

And there are reports that higher ups are wont to tell you what to read or not read.

[SharonAnn]

15. Because they are trying to take over the power structure in the U.S.

and elsewhwere. Prominent members and/or supporters have been Franco, Pinochet, Fujimori (Peru) outside the U.S. Inside the U.S. Father McCloskey is the Washington D.C. based "missionary" to the powerful in government and the media. Here's a list of a few members and/or supporters, Bob Novak, Peggy Noonan, Louis Freeh, Robert Hanssen, Rich Santorum, Sam Brownback, Antonin Scalia, and Clarence Thomas.

I have a family member who is an Opus Dei numerary, so have much more contact with them and their beliefs than I would otherwise choose to have.

They are a power-hungry cult. They go after people who are part of the power structure in a country, they target teen-agers, they practice (and require) mind control. They are a right-wing, supposedly Christian group, that wants to take over the world and run it.

They are everything I hate as an American.

[wli]

16. sounds about the same as what I've heard

Though I suspect your information is more reliable.

[Eloriel]

17. Yeah, just the list of members alone gives one pause

Do you happen to have any links? I may go googling myself, but I'd love to see what you have.

edit: Let's not forget the new Pope is also a prominent member.

[Bridget Burke]

23. Where's the list of members?

I'd like to see it.

Some are opposed to Opus Dei because they fear its possible political power.

Others are offended because they dislike that "icky Catholic mumbo jumbo". As these "others" include our own Dominionists & Christian Reconstructionists, I doubt they will be allying themselves with Opus Dei anytime soon.

[mrfrapp]

18. UK Ministers

There's at least one UK minister who's a member of Opus Dei -- education secretary, Ruth Kelly.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/spain/article/0,2763,1400400,00.html

Disclaimer: I have no idea about anything regarding Opus Dei and have no particular opinion about them other than the opinion I have about all religious groups.

[Name removed]

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