Why is MALE PRISON RAPE still tolerated in America today ?

[mixedview]

Most Americans believe our country stands for freedom and justice, that we value human life and liberty, and that our system strives to uphold these deeply held values.

Then why is male prison rape tolerated and even joked about in America today ?

Human Rights Watch estimates about 20% of all male inmates are victims of sexual violence, and 10% of all male inmates are victims of rape. Somewhere between 200,000 and 600,000 men are raped each year in our nation's prisons.

Contrary to popular belief, the average victim of prison rape is not a pedophile or rapist, but a non-violent offender serving a short sentence. He is usually younger, "unhardened", less agressive, and may have some emotional and/or psychological problems - someone who looks or acts weaker - someone unwilling or unable to defend himself against the larger, more violent inmates. Almost immediately, he is targeted as being "soft", and is under constant threat of attack from the other prisoners. At first, he may attempt to defend himself. He may also give in to extortion in return for protection, usually by asking his family to deposit money into the extortionists' commissary (the prison store) accounts.

But eventually the intimidation becomes too great, the threats too frequent, and the victim can no longer keep his would-be attackers at bay. He is raped. Now the victim is "turned out" and the entire prison considers him fair game for sexual abuse, gang rape and beatings - at this point it is virtually impossible for him to regain "respect". None of the other inmates - even those who may be sympathetic - will come to his defense. Gang membership which provides vital protection for most inmates will not be available to him - he is a "ho". Now the only way to avoid repeated, violent gang rape and savage beatings is to allow himself to become the "wife" of a larger, more feared prisoner in return for safety.

This "protector" will sometimes "trick him out" to other inmates - e.g. oral sex for $5, anal sex for $10. The victim will often take the risk (snitches face severe retribution) to report the abuse to prison officials, who most times do nothing; most officials are homophobic and think if he is "allowing" this to occur, he must be a "faggot", and therefore deserves it. "Whaddya want us to do? Be a man and defend yourself, dammit" is the prevailing attitude. At this point, barely able to endure anymore, he will usually break prison rules with the hope of being placed in solitary confinement to avoid interaction with other inmates. While providing temporary safety, breaking prison rules is almost certain to extend time served, and will sometimes get him transferred to a more violent prison. And word travels. The new inmates know he is a "ho", and the abuse is often worse. Eventually, after much physical and emotional torture, the victim usually attempts suicide, and sometimes succeeds.

Is this supposed to be AMERICA - The Land of the Free, the Home of the Brave - where rape/torture is accepted as a NORMAL part of our criminal justice system ? Does being incarcerated mean one is no longer entitled to human rights or dignity ?

No matter how heinous the crime one is accused or convicted of, the 8th Amendment to the Constitution is supposed to protect inmates from "cruel and unusual punishment" -- our American values are supposed to. Regardless of one's position on the death penalty, death row inmates are typically isolated and protected, and execution by lethal injection is relatively humane. Repeated rape, sexual slavery, constant intimidation and threat of murder - are barbaric forms of torture arguably worse than death. And the prison system turns a blind eye to it all. WE as a society turn a blind eye to it all.

We turn a blind eye to the victims like Rodney Hulin:

"My name is Linda Bruntmyer, and I am here today to tell you about my son, Rodney Hulin.

When Rodney was sixteen, he and his brother set a dumpster on fire in an alley in our neighborhood. The authorities decided to make an example of Rodney. Even though only about $500 in damage was caused by the fire, they sentenced him to eight years in an adult prison. We were frightened for him from the start. At sixteen, Rodney was a small guy, only 5’2 and about 125 pounds. And as a first-time offender, we knew he might be targeted by older, tougher, adult inmates.

Then, our worst nightmares came true. Rodney wrote us a letter telling us he’d been raped. A medical examination had confirmed the rape. A doctor found tears in his rectum and ordered an HIV test, because, he told us, one-third of the prisoners there were HIV positive. But that was only the beginning. Rodney knew if he went back into the general population, he would be in danger. He wrote to the authorities requesting to be moved to a safer place. He went through all the proper channels, but he was denied.

After the first rape, he was returned to the general population. There, he was repeatedly beaten and forced to perform oral sex and raped. He wrote for help again. In his grievance letter he wrote, “I have been sexually and physically assaulted several times, by several inmates. I am afraid to go to sleep, to shower, and just about everything else. I am afraid that when I am doing these things, I might die at any minute. Please sir, help me.”

Still, officials told him that he did not meet “emergency grievance criteria.” We all tried to get him to a safe place. I called the warden, trying to figure out what was going on. He said Rodney needed to grow up. He said, “This happens everyday, learn to deal with it. It’s no big deal.”

We were desperate. Rodney started to violate rules so that he would be put in segregation. After he was finally put in segregation, we had about a ten minute phone conversation.He was crying. He said, “Mom, I'm emotionally and mentally destroyed.”

That was the last time I heard his voice. On the night of January 26, 1996, my son hanged himself in his cell. He was seventeen and afraid, and ashamed, and hopeless. He laid in a coma for the next four months before he died.

Sadly, I know that Rodney is not alone. The human rights group, Stop Prisoner Rape gets calls and letters everyday from men and women who have survived prisoner rape and from their family members asking them for help, asking them to help them move to a safer place, asking them to help protect their loved ones who are being raped, asking them to explain why there is no one in authority that will step in and say, “No! This is not justice. This is not right.”.

We know that what happened to Rodney could have been prevented. There are ways to protect the vulnerable inmates and ways to respond to the needs of prisoners who have been sexually assaulted. Even so, vulnerable prisoners are being sexually brutalized across the country, everyday. Rodney tried to ask for help, and I tried too. But nothing was done.

Rape in prison should no longer be tolerated. It destroys human dignity, it spreads disease, it makes people more angry and violent. It kills. This is NOT what we mean when we say justice. Rape should not be considered a part of punishment. Rape is always a crime."

STOP PRISONER RAPE:Stories of Survival

On September 4th, 2003, the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003 (PREA) - backed by a diverse coalition of liberal human rights groups and conservative religious groups - was signed by President Bush. It is a start, but PREA is mostly a data gathering initiative. It will take far more political will, money and public support to bring about an end to this barbaric practice.

How can we as Americans claim to believe in liberty, how can we even think about "bigger issues", when these grotesque human rights abuses - committed against our own fathers, sons and brothers - occur everyday in our prisons, right here at home ?



additional links:
Human Rights Watch - Prisoner's Voices - real life accounts of abuse
Menstuff.org - Confronting Prison Rape
Human Rights Watch - No Escape: Male Rape in US. Prisons
Slate - Violence Silence - Why no one really cares about Prison Rape
Counterpunch - Stopping Prison Rape

[madeline_con]

1. I read a study...

that basically blamed white males for not having solidarity and racial loyalty.

The study said that blacks rape whites as a way of revenge for the ricism on the outside. It stated that those whites who join groups seldom get bothered, citing the Aryan Brotherhood as one group whose members aren't victimized.

It's just what I read. I don't make this stuff up.

EDIT/ Guards looking the other way, and being far outnumbered was also cited as a reason.

[mixedview]

9. Race is not a factor in rape as much as it is with prison gang violence

If you are a big, tough, violent white dude - you won't be targeted for rape.

This is about power, as most rape is, and weaker individuals are targeted, regardless of race.

[madeline_con]

10. I'm just telling you what the study said.

And it specifically mentioned race.

A big tough guy can be raped if enough average sized guys hold him down, BTW.

[jmowreader]

69. A big tough guy can also kill someone

So he's probably safe from rape in prison.

[madeline_con]

11. From the HRW report...

Race and Ethnicity

Past studies have documented the prevalence of black on white sexual aggression in prison.(213) These findings are further confirmed by Human Rights Watch's own research. Overall, our correspondence and interviews with white, black, and Hispanic inmates convince us that white inmates are disproportionately targeted for abuse.(214) Although many whites reported being raped by white inmates, black on white abuse appears to be more common. To a much lesser extent, non-Hispanic whites also reported being victimized by Hispanic inmates.

Other than sexual abuse of white inmates by African Americans, and, less frequently, Hispanics, interracial and interethnic sexual abuse appears to be much less common than sexual abuse committed by persons of one race or ethnicity against members of that same group. In other words, African Americans typically face sexual abuse at the hands of other African Americans, and Hispanics at the hands of other Hispanics. Some inmates told Human Rights Watch that this pattern reflected an inmate rule, one that was strictly enforced: "only a black can turn out a black, and only a chicano can turn out a chicano."(215) Breaking this rule by sexually abusing someone of another race or ethnicity, with the exception of a white inmate, could lead to racial or ethnic unrest, as other members of the victim's group would retaliate against the perpetrator's group. A Texas inmate explained, for example: "The Mexicans--indeed all latinos, nobody outside their race can 'check' one without permission from the town that, that person is from. If a black dude were to check a mexican w/out such permission & the mexican stays down & fights back, a riot will take place."(216)

The causes of black on white sexual abuse in prison have been much analyzed. Some commentators have attributed it to the norms of a violent black subculture, the result of social conditioning that encourages aggressiveness and the use of force.(217) Others have viewed it as a form of revenge for white dominance of blacks in outside society.(218) Viewing rape as a hate crime rather than one primarily motivated by sexual urges, they believe that sexually abused white inmates are essentially convenient surrogates for whites generally. Elaborating on this theory, one commentator surmised that "n raping a white inmate, the black aggressor may in some measure be assaulting the white guard on the catwalk."(219)

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report4.html#_1_27

[mixedview]

12. Another thing - prison gangs/solidarity should be not be tolerated either

Prison gangs are a substitute for true inmate protection/supervision.

Most inmates join gangs and force themselves to become more violent than they truly are - simply to survive - to avoid being raped and beaten

This should NEVER be going on in our prisons, where people should be sent to do their time, think about their crimes, and hopefully rehabilitate themselves.

Instead, human beings are thrown into a BOX and encouraged/forced to compete against each other like ANIMALS, making them much more dangerous and violent than they were when they went in.

[YapiYapo]

27. Agreed

Thats the biggest between europe and USA when it come to jail.
In europe we don't have all those gangs, sure arabs and blacks inmate tend to stick together and white do the same but there are no group fight between the community.

I've serve 3 month for car stealing when i was 18,i never heard or see any rape problem,neither did someone really bothered me physically.
I have to mention that inmate have the right to see their wife/girlfriend in special room once a month.That's probably help a lot.

[merh]

48. Prisons are human land fills.

Americans could care less about recycling, they care even less about how inmates are treated. Discard the guilty bastards, they are rubish. As one elected official told me once, "inmates can't vote."

So who the hell cares, throw them away let them rot and by the time they have done their time, the majority are no good to society or no one bothers to try to help them find their worth or allow them back into society. :argh:

[madeline_con]

57. "... gangs/solidarity should be not be tolerated ..."

There's that slippery slope about "prisoners' rights" and who's allowed to hang out with whom.

There was even mention a while back that separating along racial lines would be racist; this in cases of racial fighting and tension leading to takeovers, etc.

I'm all for being PC, but if different races can't be put in a room together without violence resulting, I think separate containers would be appropriate.

The alternative to the model in place right now is to keep everyone locked up separately to avoid any type of interaction. Again, the rights of the prisoners are being abused, it's solitary for everyone, etc.

[mixedview]

63. group dynamics - prison rape is mostly a problem of male competition

as many problems in society are.

Right now we as a society mostly ignore group dynamics. We like to think that everyone in a group acts in an equal fashion. The opposite is true. We humans are hierachial, pack animals like wolves - men more so than women. Men have a tendency to form strict pecking orders based on racial, physical and personality traits, to compete aggressively, to factionalize/form gangs.

Regarding race - diversity only fails when it creates a majority/minority, dominance/submission group dynamic. Diversity works perfectly to "check and balance" and "break up" negative group dynamics when it is truly diverse and there is not majority or minority. Racially and culturally diverse groups tend to be far less competitive and much more cooperative.

Sociologists should study this more. They need to find a way to organize the prisoners and their activities so negative group dynamics (factionlialization, extreme competition, extreme hierarchy) are minimized, an positive group dynamics (cooperation, healthy competition, flatter hierarchies) are maximized.

In many ways this is about markets. Right now, the "market" inside prisons favors the rights of the most violent, aggressive bullies at the expense of less violent prisoners, in much the same way an unrestricted free market favors rogue/bully corporations. A regulated market (one which specifically curbs the bullies) with healthy competition moderates these "dog-eat-dog" tendencies, the tendency of the little guy at the bottom to be abused.

The truth is, males value strength - and in a sick way - any male centric system (such as prison) is going to value the bully/rapist/thug over the innocent victim of the bully - who is an embarassment nobody wants to help - like the geek who gets beat up in highschool. Right or wrong doesn't matter - only strength.

These problems are complex and will require a lot of research and money and political will to fix.

But in the meantime, ANY prisoner who requests to be placed in protective custody or solitary confinement should NEVER be denied. After all, if the inmate is CHOOSING solitary, he must be TRULY afraid for his life. NOBODY should be subjected to the TERROR of daily rape/attempted murder.

[Kagemusha]

2. How frequent is it? That's the only question I have.

I'm not American but I've spoken to Americans about it who've expressed disbelief that this could be massive and widespread.

[wli]

7. 2 million in prison, 6 million on probation, 20% of incarcerated raped

Now take into account turnover in prison population.

This is mass rape on an unfathomably enormous scale.

[personman]

19. That's surprising to me.

It's probably even considered cliche anymore. People always joke about "Bubba" the big black guy who gets you in the prison shower when you drop the soap.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. I guess you've spoken to Americans who have never been in prison.

[Catherine Vincent]

3. Devastating.

I agree, it shouldn't be allowed or tolerated on any prisoner. I never did like the comments by some here who mention a political foe etc to be some other prisoner's sheila.

[REP]

4. Rape Isn't Treated Like Much of a Crime Even When The Victim is Non-Inmate

When this society starts treating rape like a real crime with real penalties when it is committed against non-inmate victims, then maybe society will care when inmates are raped. As it is, quite a few rape cases still aren't prosecuted; sentences are light and recidivism is sky-high. If society at large feels little sympathy for the woman who "should have known better," it's not going to care that much for a population convicted of breaking its laws, whether it be property crime or assault.

I don't think prison rape should be part of the punishment, even for rapists. I don't know what the answer is; solitary confinement is generally regarded as cruel, but obviously there is segment of the inmate population that needs to be segregated. In the long-term, though, taking ALL rape seriously is about the only way to get prison rape stopped or at least slowed down.

[Misunderestimator]

28. Well said.

[Pacifist Patriot]

37. Bravo!

[Dogmudgeon]

5. Because ...

... it's not "real" rape.

... it's fun to tell jokes about prison rape.

... Howard Stern tells prison rape jokes.

... it's part of the punishment.

... they deserve it, especially those Penophiliacs who cruise the Internets.

... David Spade tells prison rape jokes (two on his recent SNL appearance).

... rape is only bad when it happens to women (because ...)

... a Real Man would protect himself.

... Dennis Miller tells prison rape jokes.

... all criminals are scum and deserve to suffer inhuman treatment.

... it reminds us that Gay Anal Sex is an abomination in the Lord's eyes.

... we secretly wanted Michael Jackson to be raped in prison.

... it keeps us afraid of prison, convicts, and the underclass.

... it makes us count our blessings that our own experiences with involuntary anal intercourse are metaphorical, not physical.

... it keeps us young, cracking jokes that make teenage boys giggle.

I may have missed a few ...

--p!

[Freedomfried]

79. If you cant do the time, don't do the crime...

Is the Bubbaville mantra

[wli]

6. it's a testament to precisely how barbaric the US truly is

Abu Ghraib is next to nothing compared to this.

[etherealtruth]

62. Touche`

[wellst0nev0ter]

74. Funny You Should Mention That

Lynndie England testified that they abused the prisoners at Abu Ghraib, not to get information out of them, but to control them. I would venture that's the easiest way to control an overflowing prison population, create a heirarchy of "bulls" that put the other "cows" in line, and control the "bulls".

I guess the cultural predesposition of the prisoners or Abu Ghraib doesn't support abusing each other, so the MPs sought to "teach" them how to sexually dominate each other in order to make their control easier.

[Jackson4Gore]

8. Ugh...

Because they are prisioners and the truth is, no one really cares about them. It is the truth.

[me b zola]

70. This is the first time I have ever agreed with one of your posts.

(except for the ugh part)

No one cares about a prisoner. I cry when I hear of youth being sent to prison because I know that for stealing a car, or whatever, they are being sentenced to gang rape & goodness knows what else for the length of their sentence. It is criminal & barbaric to treat people this way. What ghouls we have become to accept this.

Dems who used to at least speak out about human rights abuses will no longer touch the issue of prison reform. They are too afraid that they will be called "soft on crime", and "Dems care more about the criminals than they do the victims"...etc. In taking a sharp turn to the right, Dems have left many people and issues without a voice.

One of the most putrid things about this is that many of the politicians who pander to the people's fear of crime are often guilty of crimes themselves. White collar crime, I believe, is much more devastating to a society and the individual people within it than are most of the people who end up in prison (I'm not talking about murderers, rapists, or pedophiles). Ken Lay. There's a man who should be forced to live in a super-max facility that his republican cronies think is an acceptable (hell, they call US prisons country clubs) way to pay your debt to society.

No one cares about prisoners? You are right. No one, either, cares about fair elections, the enviroment, workers rights (what, US workers?) civil rights (that's right--a woman's right to choose, gay couples full Constitutional rights, the voting act affirmative action, etc), the seperation of church & State, and a free press. In short, without traditional Democratic values, there is no one speaking for the people.

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. Because we are a Christian nation who believes in

stripping every sinner of every possible comfort or protection of the laws and allow them to wither on the vine for the rest of their remaining lives.

[Montauk6]

14. I love the irony (well, not really, I HATE it all!)

In America, law-abiding citizens who are pillars of the community, wonderful people, can become criminals overnight simply for having consensual, intimate pleasure with a someone who happens to have the same type of genitalia; if they are unfortunate enough to perform this intimacy in a state which has antiquated sodomy laws on the books. Even in those states where such laws are either unenforced or had been long repealed, they are discouraged from such behavior in a passive/aggressive fashion through the de facto relegation to second-class citizenship.

Once said unfortunates are convicted and become members of The System, THEN the state leaves them alone in regard to their homosexuality.

And I'm sorry, I just don't buy this argument that prison rape and the intercourse among men is about power and violence and NOT sexuality. In fact, I'd go out on a limb to say that all rape involves, at SOME point, sexuality.

Dear Lawd Gawd! Can you just IMAGINE a world without homophobia/machismo (because I believe the two work in tandem), misogyny and racism?

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

80. Not quite - sodomy laws were overturned by the Supreme Court.

But it's worth saying that if it hadn't done that, gays COULD and definitely WOULD still be prosecuted under those laws.

And you make a good point about the hypocrisy of how the state treats gays and homosexuality.

There is a sexual element involved in rape.

Machismo means, "As long as I'm on top, I can have sex with a man and it doesn't mean I'm gay, it just means I'm loaded with sexual energy. Since you are on the bottom and gays are the lowest of the low w/r/t minorities, you are the gay one, and you disgust me." That's a rough approximation of how goes the primitive logic of machismo. It's (in part) an excuse to engage in homosexual activity.

Again, it all comes back to misogyny, hatred of the feminine, women, the passive role.

[IdaBriggs]

15. This makes me ill. I don't know how to fix it. Nominated. nt

[H2O Man]

16. Frequently

it is used as a form of control by the prison administrators. There is a book, "The Sixteenth Round," by Rubin Carter that has some valuable information on prison violence, including rape, and the manner in which it is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

[dmr]

41. I believe this to be true

I briefly worked in one of Florida's Correctional Institutions. It was by far, the most distasteful of all of my career.

First: Prison officials, employees, and correction officers would joke and laugh at inmates who were brought into medical after a beating and rape. From my own observations, the only professionals who did not find the humor were the nurses.

How my fellow pharmacy colleagues could find anything humorous was beyond my comprehension.

Second: We dispensed an extraordinary amount of Vaseline. This item would have to be prescribed by the prison's physician. The rationale for this product was dry skin. However, these same inmates also had scripts for skin lotion.

My best day in that prison was the day I walked out. Just reading the original post and remembering those days leaves me shaking inside. Working those few weeks within the Correctional Institution is the only period in my 30+ pharmacy career that bring back terrible memories, and a horrible pit in my stomach.

Edit: grammar

[bobbieinok]

17. I think it's partly b/c it's viewed as part of the 'punishment' for being

bad......'we wouldn't want criminals to view prison as a vacation, now would we?' <sarcasm>

possibly also 'they're asking for it'

and a way to contain gangs and violence......'give them an outlet'

also afraid prison establishment and segments of the population think it's funny........see, for example, the DU posts looking forward to X in the adm being 'Bubba's bitch'


BTW, this is a very good question, one I've wondered about myself

[Skittles]

18. I've seen DUers joke about it

I can never view rape as a laughing matter - EVER

[lostnfound]

20. Doesn't get aired on corporate media, eiher; but it does on Pacifica.

Not cheery enough. Another example of how our citizenry is uninformed, and encouraged to ignore what's in the dark shadows of our culture. Another example of how the corporate media is not serving our society, but only pacifying it and distracting it.

KPFT Pacifica has a Prison Show. The host, Ray Hill, a very long-time Pacifica person involved in the VERY earliest days of Pacifica, once told a story of seeing an inmate be raped by another inmate, while Ray was a prisoner before his Pacifica career. A crowd gathered in advance, and many of the prisoners had been betting on whether or not this attack would happen at a specific time.

Ray's very moving story talked about how that experience made him sick, realizing that just by watching and not stopping it, he had been degraded further than he ever imagined.

The rapist was put in solitary for 4 weeks; the VICTIM was put in solitary for 6 weeks.

[kansasblue]

21. I detest they way people use prison rape as a tool

to convince people prison is a bad place to be. I've heard police officers using that as a warning to children about being good. To infer it is part of the prison punishment is unacceptable.

[Tesha]

22. It's tolerated (and probably encouraged) as part of the "punishment".

We are barbarians in this country.

Tesha

[Talismom]

23. Why is the distinction of MALE rape included in this question?

Isn't all prison rape of concern to americans who care about justice?

[Liberal In Texas]

34. Rape of women prisoners is a big problem as well.

Usually by the guards or other prison workers. It is very hard for these women to get justice. I know a lawyer who is working on 2 such cases.

[Talismom]

43. Bless that lawyer and thanks for responding to my question.

I was beginning to feel uncomfortable that it wasn't seen as significant or worthy of concideration by DUers!

[mixedview]

44. I wanted to focus specifically on MALE prison rape mainly because:

-I am male
-prison rape/violence against men is considered humorous by our culture.
-while it is politically incorrect to make "rape jokes" about women or children, one can turn on the late night comics anytime and hear prison rape jokes about men.
-men are often too ashamed to speak up for themselves and in most cases simply choose to live with the pain and not tell anyone. this is why male prison rape has gone virtually unaddressed for.. since the beginning of time. the male prison system in America today is maybe slightly less barbaric than prison systems of 100yrs ago.. or 500yrs ago.
-this is a problem we as males need to recognize and come to grips with. if we don't care about ourselves being raped, no one else will.
-male prisoners have very few interest groups, where women, children, refugees, political/war prisoners have many advocacy groups speaking for them.
-males in our prison system today are being abused in silence, and I strongly believe they need our help just as much as other prisoners and victims of rape/abuse do.
-men are overwhelmingly the victims of prison rape, and most (iirc, 85%+) of the US inmate population is male, and this percentage is increasing.
-the problems associated with incarceration and the prison industrial complex are largely a male problem.

I in no way minimize rape of women or children or anyone on the "outside", but my post was specifically to address why society (including men themselves)has turned such a blind eye specifically to the problem of males being raped in prison.

And I in no way wish to make this a competition between "whose suffers from rape worse."

ALL human rights groups including Stop Prisoner Rape are focused on ending ALL sexual and other abuse of ALL prisoners - juveniles, men, women, refugees, etc.

Our entire prison system need to be rethought, as well as our approach to crime and punishment.

We ALL need to work together to end ALL prisoner abuse. These people need our help. Now. They are being abused as we speak.

We ALL must work towards creating a much more civilized, much less violent society for everyone - one which truly embodies the values of liberty and equality.

[Touchdown]

45. Oh' yeah. It's all about your gender.

Heaven forbid anybody talks about men being victims of anything, when we're busy blaming men for the destruction of the world...and lepracy.:eyes:

Citing prison rape of males is not a slight of females. Do we have to couch EVERYTHING in "of course females get raped too, so let's concentrate on that instead!" just to make you happy? Get over yourself!

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Touchdown]

59. Becase this isn't your thread.

You want to talk about the encompasing issue, then start one. The OP's was focused on one aspect of it. If you feel it exclusionary, or somehow dismissive of women's issues of rape, then it says more about your self absorbsion and need to shift the focus, then the OP's omittence of women in a thread about male victims.

I have a problem with thread hijacking, and a serious problem with people because their own issue isn't being addressed and pontificated upon every 5 minutes.

I also have a problem with male bashing, and implied accusations of chauvanism, simply because a topic is too focused to be gender inclusive, and I'm making it your problem.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hello_Kitty]

61. Hey dude, that works both ways

Perhaps you hadn't noticed all the times someone has interjected with a "but..but..men are victims too!!" comment in discussions of things like domestic violence, here on DU and everywhere else.

I didn't have a problem with the title of the post because I do see this as more of a male-on-male violence issue (though women are frequently raped in prison) but if someone else did, they're entitled.

And as far as men being "responsible for the destruction of the world"...umm....well...Never mind. :hi:

[Clintmax]

24. I don't know if it CAN be stopped...

The ONLY way I can see it stopped completely is to give each inmate his own cell that he stays in 24 hours a day, segregated from all other inmates. If we had to do THAT, prisons would have to be at least triple the size they are now. I don't see that being an option. The men and women in prison who are there for the rest of their lives, I'm sure, don't see they have anything to lose and since they aren't going to have a woman there to have sex with, turn to the new inmates who are scared and weak and ignorant of how things work in prison.

I would suggest that most of the men who commit rape in prison are not gay. I think they get off on intimidation and/or controlling another human being. Rape is one way that can be accomplished.

Inmates are always going to be eating together, having yard time together, working together, etc and the guards can't be in all places at all times. This is a VERY difficult problem to deal with.

Edit: Nominated

[Tesha]

26. We could always choose to have *FEWER PRISONERS*.

Lots of folks are in our prisons for crimes that are either:

1) Not real crimes (drug use, sex workers, etc.), or

2) Crimes that could be better-punished by retribution.

We could probably remove 3/4 of our inmates from the prison system, but
prisons have become a huge conduit of government pork.

Tesha

[mixedview]

49. BINGO - fewer prisoners would be the start of a solution

There are many decent, otherwise law abiding citizens who get "sucked into the system" for some harmless, victimless crime - eg. marijuana, prostitution, etc.

I am a libertarian, and I strongly believe that we should regulate - not criminalize - behavior normal people will engage in anyway. Make it safe for everyone involved. But that would make sense.

Instead, we are creating a sub-society (prison industrial complex) of violent criminals, rapists and victims - one much larger than it should ever be - simply because we are putting people in jail who should NEVER be there in the first place.

After we reduce the amount of prisoners, we MUST still reform the prison system so that NO prisoner is stripped of their human rights simply because they were convicted of a crime (and lets keep in mind that our justice system is flawed and many people convicted of crimes are later proved to be innocent - yet another reason why nobody behind bars deserves to be raped/abused - besides the fact that they are a human being above all even if truly guilty).

[ohio_liberal]

40. You're right

Most of them aren't gay. It's all about control.

[Coexist]

25. what can be done about it?

this is so sick and sad.

[noonwitch]

29. Don't lock up petty offenders with violent ones

The guy in this article never should have been in a prison with the murderers and rapists, he should have been in a low-security/work release type setting, with inmates convicted of similar offenses.

At 16, this kid should not have been sent to adult prison for the offense he committed. He should have gone to a juvenile treatment center or something.

[ohio_liberal]

42. Violent offenders get raped too

I know of a man convicted of aggravated murder, very low profile guy, who was almost certainly assaulted sexually. I believe the key is better psych evaluations before putting them in a specific population.

[moggie]

54. I don't know

But surely a good starting point would be to look at penal systems around the world. Not all countries have this problem on the same scale as the US, and it ought to be possible to learn from the best of them. But I suppose that would mean admitting that USA is not #1.

[Yupster]

65. I know congress passed a law

which Bush signed which was supposed to address this problem, but I have no idea what it did or was supposed to do.

Anyone know?

[mixedview]

76. our FIRST STEP should be to come to the RESCUE of those being abused.

There are many organizations which deal with human rights and prisoner rights, but the only one (that I know of) which deals specifically with prison rape is Stop Prisoner Rape. SPR is on the front lines, doing whatever they can to help the victims ASAP. Because the men, women and juveniles who are being raped in our prisons as we speak aren't going to be rescued by political ideology and long term vision - but with immediate action, to help them get protection NOW.

Here's what we can do:

We need to support SPR.

We need to let the larger human and civil rights organizations (ACLU, HRW, etc) know we would like them to devote more time/resources to the problem of rape in our nation's prison system.

We need to draw media attention to the issue.

We need to talk about the issue of prison rape whenever the issue of human rights is raised. We cannot wax poetic about human rights and freedom while denying basic humanity to our own prisoners.

We need to let our political leaders know that we as Americans do not approve of rape as a form of punishment.

We need to work with any organization willing to HELP NOW - liberal or conservative - for whatever reason - it does not matter. Those being abused in the dark corners of our prisons RIGHT NOW don't have the luxury of ideological purity or partisan gamesmanship.

[Solly Mack]

30. Another thread w/ thoughts on the subject

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4229349&mesg_id=4229349

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. Because so many Americans want prisoners to be punished, and

they think this is as good a way as any.

[johannes1984]

32. Nelson Mandela said it best

a nation's true heart can be seen in the way it threats it's prisoners ,....and trust me he knows a thingie or two about that .

as for prison rape .....any rape for that matter is a most heinous act .Yet what worries me more is the abysmal manner in which childeren are treated ...whenever i went to america alone , as an underaged kid .... i always registered at the local consulate ....not because i was afraid a big black or hispanic individual might attack me .But because i might need legal assistence to protect me from some ape shit judiciary and law enforcement , in record time .


It's all part of how you see yourself as a nation , ...if you believe the government , the institutions, emboddy the nations they're left to move and act at will .If you believe the people ......all the people , are the nation ....it's a lot harder to get away with .And that is the problem ,as i see it ,Some americans have trouble seeing that the beauty of america is the freedom of the people , the freedom of a nation united under a common sense of humanity .

the problem is a huge one , and it's obvious most of you feel that , in saying there is little or no solution to be found .If there is a solution to be found , I'm afraid it will require an exercise in philosophy which ussually , or up till now that is , took decades , if not centuries to build amongst people .That said , neither of us here want our kids to grow up in this world , and this being the age of quick troubleshooting , we might as well give it a spin .

I'll leave the plan up to those who know what they're talking about .But here we are folks , the twenty first , and this is the point where it's pretty much all been said and done before .Now we have these laptops and circuits to say it again though , and let it be heard in every corner of the sweet blue crapper of a globe .So either we'll stand up now and ,against all odds , try to bring the world one step closer to humanity ....or loose life trough hope long before we grow extinct .

all in all , this is horrible , but it's part of a much larger problem .And when the larger problem surfaces it's ugly head it'll be too huge to face with words and logic ....i'm afraid it'll be what we saw last century.....and the century before that ....come to think of it the century before that we had the same thing ....

[SmokingJacket]

33. Yet another reason why non-violent offenders should NOT

be imprisoned -- particularly with violent ones.

Important post, thank you.

[greenpagan]

35. BU$H'S RAPE ROOMS

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report.html#_1_3

http://www.spr.org/en/doc_01_factsheet.html

[dsc]

36. This has been going on for decades

I got arrested once in college (ACT UP) and was put in a 'holding' cell with 8 other inmates. Fortunately AIDS wasn't that common amoung prisoners yet so I wasn't anally raped. I didn't have HIV but I sure didn't let them know that. But I was forced to perform orally. I could hear the cops laughing. I wouldn't go forward since I figured I might wind up convicted of some trumped up crime. But it happens even to those who don't get convicted of crimes (I was released without any charges).

[Digit]

75. That is appalling!

I am so sorry for your mistreatment.
I am just numb reading these threads. This is the US, and this should not happen.
I am sad and outraged all at the same time.

[dsc]

81. Let's just say I won't ever cuss out an arresting cop again

Not that that is the way I should have learned that lesson, but learn it I did.

[ohio_liberal]

39. 10% of all male inmates are victims of rape

Based on my experience I would say this percentage is higher.

And as a first-time offender, we knew he might be targeted by older, tougher, adult inmates.

This isn't a possibility, it's a probability.

[dogday]

47. It's got to be higher....

I would think there is a group percentage of those who get raped and never speak a word of it.

[anarch]

46. the whole "justice" system in this country is basically class warfare

That wasn't the intent of it, the way it was organized originally, but that's what it's become.

and I think plenty of other people in this thread have pointed out that prison rape is just considered "part of the punishment", if not in so many words then at least in spirit, by most Americans who even bother to think about it.

Why do we tolerate the obvious racism inherent in our penal system?

Why do we tolerate non-violent offenders, especially those arrested for drug posession (not even distribution, just posession!) being locked up with murderers and rapists?

Why do we tolerate slavery, when the slaves are prison inmates?

Because, well, "those people must deserve it. they're in prison after all."

It's self-perpetuating barbarism, and a tool of the overclass to keep the rest of us in line. The threat of rape is part of it, I think.

[Hardrada]

55. That's it exactly.

They keep prisons that way to intimidate dissenters and the rebellious.

[wrlwnd]

50. out of sight, out of mind

Prisoners don't have a voice in society today. It's another world behind bars, and your average American would rather not think about it.

[ohio_liberal]

52. Unless someone has been there

Truly, they have no idea.

[sweetheart]

51. Because america is building up to a second civil war.

This second civil war, will be more like the french revolution, and
likely will behead the corporate beast in a coordinated act of
beheading very similar to the french revolution. This, then would be
the beheading of the corporate elite, the members of the supreme
court, the executive and the congress, and the drawing up of a new
government by the people, for the people.

Until then, the borgeious will continue to abuse the underclasses... as
only when the rape victem strikes back to rapists stop. If every rape
victem in a prison, got even by getting even with a politician behind
his incarceration, things will change quicker. The country could use
some intelligent revenge once in a while.

[Nye Bevan]

56. The Attorney General of California advocated prison rape for Ken Lay...

While San Francisco was honing its rape-prevention protocols, the state's attorney general, Bill Lockyer, was joking that he "would love to personally escort" Enron CEO Ken Lay "to an 8-by-10 cell that he could share with a tattooed dude who says, 'Hi, my name is Spike, honey.' "

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/005846.html


Do I think Ken Lay is a crook? Yes. Should he go to jail? Absolutely. Do I think he (or anyone else) should be anally raped as an additional punishment? No way.

[Greyhound]

58. Because we have a punitive system, and have no interest in rehab n/t

[Silverhair]

64. Simple answer. Nobody gives a damn about convicts. NT

[solinvictus]

66. It shouldn't happen..

If society deems someone deserving of a custodial sentence, then the person should be protected from abuse by other inmates.

[billbuckhead]

67. NeoconReactionaryAss#oles?

Prison Industrial Complex?

we allow it, it's even a cliche.

[SoCalDem]

68. Here's why.

There is a general perception that prisons are "not tough enough" on criminals, so when other prisoners prey on the weaker ones, the public just shrugs, and says "Well they ARE crimninals, and are just getting what's due them"..

Once someone is locked up, the only people who care about what happens to them are their family (sometimes) and their lawyers (until their money runs out).

I really think that most 'Murikans would be just fine with it, if prisoners were just shipped off to an island and never heard from again...

[Chicago Democrat]

71. Because the US is a fascist police state and homosexual rape

fits in with their twisted caste system world view.



(Brother in Jail now)

[iconoclastNYC]

72. HBO's OZ.....

Makes it look sexy..... just kidding.

[Chicago Democrat]

73. Not kidding you are totally spot on....

and that is profound.



(brother in prison raped for years, now in prison again)

[Heddi]

77. The same reason non-prison rape is tolerated in America today

There are people out there who believe that there are people DESERVING of such brutality.
Whether it was someone who is a prisoner (that's what ya get when ya go to jail! Do the crime, do the time!, etc),

or someone who was promiscuous (What, it's okay this time but not that time? How can a prostitute be raped? You were asking for it),

or a child in many instances (you can't believe children. That didn't happen. That person was a pillar of society, they'd never do something like that)

People do beleive that some people are deserving of horrors. THat's why we have the Death Penalty. It's okay. THey're prisoners. They don't matter.

It's okay. They were a prostitute. They were promiscuous. They were drunk. They didn't fight hard enough. They didn't mean it.

We're always finding excuses as to why horrors are permitted in society. The real reason: because we're a bunch of sick fucks who are not very far removed from people who found joy in watching slaves and prisoners get mauled alive by wild, starved, caged animals.

That is why.

[baby_mouse]

78. Well, a lot of people seem to think it's really funny.

That seems to be a about it.

[mixedview]

82. kick. /nt

[greblc]

83. How would the people who lost money in the World Com....

scandal feel if Bernie Ebbers were abused in Prison?

I enjoyed seeing Mr.Ebbers cry as he was lead away from his sentencing.