Would you turn someone in for cheating or criminal behavior?

[bleedingheart]

I have always been fascinated by the reaction to cheating or even criminal behavior and how people respond to it.

On one hand people are disgusted by cheaters/criminals but on the other hand they sometimes admire them because in many cases cheaters are able to propel themselves further ahead by their actions.

Personally I known of two cases of insurance fraud, one in which the cheater did end up "paying for his actions" and the other where the individual ended up being rewarded greatly. The first case was a guy who got estimates for fixing damage to his home that far exceeded the cost to actually repair, BUT he ended up having his insurance premium almost double which in the end will cost him way more than the padded checks he received...in fact he related this story to me as an effort to say..."I have learned my lesson"...

The second case was a woman I was very good friends with that actually made a great deal of money from two cases of insurance fraud and used the money to buy the dream house she and her husband wanted. In fact her mother-in-law was involved in the one scheme they devised and because they did not sufficiently share in the reward...the mother in law she didn't like ended up not talking to her...so for her she got both the cash and an MIL that left her alone...

So I have to ask...would you turn someone in for cheating or suspected criminal or illegal activity and if so why...and if not why....?

I have to say that I am very hesitant to speak out without facts, so in reality I have never reported anyone and those people like the fellow above...well they did learn their lesson so why even bother. However, I think I would have to basically weigh the pros and cons of the situation.

I have to also say that in the cases where people have "blown the whistle" on cheating or problems they have witnessed, society almost always punishes them more than the cheater.

edit: for my poor spelling

[evermind]

1. Other: it would entirely depend on the nature of the criminal behaviour

(or the cheating.. in which case, turn them in to who? Their wife?)

[bleedingheart]

6. you bring up another interesting facet to the conversation...

Most people I know would want someone to tell them that their spouse is cheating on them...but yet few people find out through a friend telling them. I wonder if it isn't because people feel so bad about telling someone something so personal and devastating...

[noonwitch]

16. It all depends on circumstances

Am I going to call the police on my neighbor for playing the stereo too loud, barking dogs or smoking weed in his backyard? No.

If he's beating his wife or kids, yes.

If there's a crack house across the street, yes. If I am a witness to a murder/robbery/rape/arson, yes.

Cheating on a spouse, well, whoever tells the other spouse usually ends up losing two friends, so probably not. Unless I find out my mom's boyfriend is cheating on her-I would tell her, because I hate him and think he's just using her for her money.

Cheating on a test, well, I'm long out of school. I never was a cheater, and really didn't notice if others were, because I was busy with my own work.

[Boredtodeath]

27. No, because our system is an utter failure

Our justice system is simply there to punish.

There is no consideration for the damage to the extended family.

All our criminal justice system does is create 2nd generations of failed families.

If we really care, we step in face to face with the family and call them on the behavior instead of being chickenshits making anonymous calls to the authorities.

[bleedingheart]

33. another good point...

sadly there are general rules for sentencing and sometimes judges can't reduce sentences to be more reflective of the nature of certain crimes...which might be another reason people do not report crimes.

Sentencing a man who steals bread to feed his family to the same sentence as a man who robs a bank is morally bankrupt ....sometimes people in hyper reaction to "crime" have shifted to being more accepting of either Guilty or Not Guilty verdicts and ignoring the shades of gray surround the cases...

[kennedy867]

2. I would

turn someone in for insurance fraud! All it does is cheat all the customers of the insurance agency in higher premiums.

However, I would never turn someone in for cheating on their taxes!

[sui generis]

3. there is no free lunch

for every person who gets away with "taking" money, other people have lost money.

In the case of insurance - they have changed the risk profile of their demographic, which leads to higher premiums for everyone.

In every other case, it is as unethical to know about a crime or cheating and not report it as it is to commit the crime or cheating to begin with.

A getaway car driver helps a bank robber get away by driving a car.

A quiet person not reporting a crime helps the thief get away with the crime as surely as if they had driven a car.

[bleedingheart]

4. you make very good points

and that is why I find the "cheating phenomena" so fascinating...why don't people turn in people they know are cheating?

My neighbor was really angry that her brother-in-law is cheating disability because she knows through his actions that he is not...(he is working under the table for someone while receiving disability)....I asked her point blank..."why not turn him in?" and she could not give me an answer but yet months later was again very angry that he is "double dipping" and "cheating the system"...

[sui generis]

22. I will have to say this about disability

THAT system is badly broken.

You are either supposed to be in utter bleak abject poverty and a complete dependent on family and friends with less than six months to live or else unable to wipe your own ass or you're supposed to miraculously have a marvelous job in spite of your "disability" that is enough to give you financial independence AND pay for your continued life support.

I would rather somebody who really was disabled and COULD make a little extra money on the side not lose their disability just because they COULD make a little extra money on the side. There is no room to split these hairs in the current system - you are either "cheating" to survive or starving when the food bank runs empty.

If her brother really can work to support himself completely, then he should not be drawing a disability check though.

[etherealtruth]

28. "Ain't" that the truth ... n/t

[ugarte]

5. So if no one cheats, insurance premiums come down?

Not in my lifetime.

[Maru Kitteh]

21. When in your lifetime has the system been cheat free?

Insurance companies know they cannot catch every cheat but isn't a person who cheats the company because "everybody does it" morally deficient?

I say yes, people who commit insurance fraud are morally deficient.

It is true, for every ill gotten gain there is someone (or someones) who have to pay to make it up and you can be damn sure it's not going to be the CEO's and stockholders so that leaves it to everyone else who pays their premium and has the integrity and honesty to NOT commit fraud.

[ugarte]

39. Yeah, they're morally deficient. So?

The question being discussed is when do you turn somebody in. Like most people on this board, it's hard to make a blanket statement on this. Every case is different.

[demgurl]

7. I have a family member who was committing fraud

on a store, several in fact. It came to pass that one of the clerks told me about this person and I had my suspicions that it was my relative so I gave her a description and the clerk's eyes opened very wide and she said that was the person. I provided my relative's name and address and phone number so the store could prosecute.

Then there was the time my family asked me to join in a law suit with them against my mom. My mother told me that she would never speak to me again if I did. It was a real dilemma for me but I had to do what is right and I joined my fifteen family members in the law suit and my mom has not spoken to me since. I do not know how she will react when she realizes that I will be the one responsible for possibly having her jailed. I am now officially an orphan since I do not have a mom any more but my morals are worth so much more than that.

[bleedingheart]

8. in the one case of insurance fraud I didn't think I had enough evidence

to report the woman that bilked two different companies. However over time more of the story regarding her claims (there were no lawsuits..they were just settled out of court) came out and only bolstered my suspicions but to be honest had the insurance companies did some digging around they too would have known.

[demgurl]

31. Bleedingheart....

You can not do much if you do not have proof. We only do what we can.

[bleedingheart]

32. i feel bad for you in your case as well but I do think you did the right

thing and hopefully it will turn out for the best in your mother's case.

[demgurl]

34. bleedingheart....

Thank you. I have long ago made peace with this although I can not say I do not hurt during holiday times. I can always look myself in the mirror and know I have done what it right and I have set a strong example for my children to follow. Things have already turned out for the best. Despite the actions I have taken, I honestly hope they turn out for the best with her as well.

[Maru Kitteh]

13. Sorry to hear about your mom, but you did the right thing

Maybe sometime in the future she will realize that too.

:hug:

[demgurl]

30. Veganistan....

Thank for your positive thoughts I really do appreciate it. Even if she ever realizes what she has done, I will never have contact with her any more.

I searched my heart and my conscience and I just could not ignore my family pleading with me to join the suit. The lawyer specifically told them that the case would go quicker if I joined. Unbeknown to me, she had been using me and stating if I was patient waiting on money than everyone else should be as well. The judge agreed. She knew that I had not been patient and my lack of money had us in a situation where we were actually borrowing money at the end of every single month to get by! Not only was she with holding money, but there is proof she was fraudulent with funds and she embezzled money that was not hers.

I do hope she realizes it. I hold no grudge toward her. I do feel sad about her lifestyle. She has chosen such a material life and I feel she needed the money to maintain appearances. This just shows what a big void there must be in her life. I feel bad for her since I am the only child, she has no husband and I have her only grandchildren. It is sad that she is missing out on so much. I hope one day she will realize what she has done and choose a happier path for her life. We all deserve a little true happiness.

[mattclearing]

9. If it's not violent and doesn't endanger me or my family, I don't care.

People who are stolen from have a responsibility to themselves. Likewise with other non-violent crime. As long as lives aren't in immediate danger, and it doesn't concern me or people I live with, it's not my business.

[ugarte]

14. I agree. All depends on your cultural background

I grew up in a community that did not trust the police. You didn't call the police for anything except maybe murder, so if somebody is scamming somebody that's their busimess. If someone is scamming on their insurance or ripping off a cable TV signal, big f'ing deal.

[bleedingheart]

17. so you would be okay with people applying this rule to you as well

so if your home were broken into or your business was being defrauded by your accountant and everyone knew ...but no one reported it...all because they weren't the victims of the crime.

[mattclearing]

19. Yeah, because I would report it.

Duh :D

[bleedingheart]

20. so if they saw it happening and could have prevented the crime...

you would still be okay with that?

[mattclearing]

29. Yeah, I would.

And besides, how would I know, anyway?

[ugarte]

23. Whether I'm okay with it doesn't really matter

People will do what they want. That's just life.

[mattclearing]

18. Exactly. n/t

[knitter4democracy]

10. I had to report students for drug use.

It was required by law (or I could lose my job), and it was the right thing to do to get the minors help. One of the kids even tried to sell me drugs. :eyes:

[sweetheart]

11. Yes, only if i were the victem...

or if the crime is heinous like rape or murder.
If not, then no.

[bleedingheart]

15. so if you are on vacation and your neighbor knows it and watches

as someone goes into your home and steals your belongings or perhaps sets your house on fire...you would accept the fact that your neighbor did nothing because he wasn't the victim?

[sweetheart]

26. extended version of legal self

That is a crime against my interests if you rob my neighbor and i would
report that, as it is a victem crime against my "family".

[bleedingheart]

36. I see your point as well.

The replies to this thread are very interesting to me, many different perspectives.

[Maru Kitteh]

12. Whether it happens at Enron, the local HHS or doctor shopping like Rush

If it's wrong, the person should be called on it. We all end up paying for fraud.

[NNN0LHI]

24. A little something about snitches

Everyone hates snitches. Cops hate snitches. Lawyers hate snitches. Prosecutors hate snitches. Jail guards hate snitches. Judges hate snitches. Even jurors hate snitches. They all use them. But they all hate them too.

I hope that answers your question.

Don

[ugarte]

25. Good point

I think you're living in the real world.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. As usual for these kinds of questions: It depends.

Back in the '60s/'70s I knew of a lot of cases of guys who "cheated" to avoid the draft. Which, when successful, meant that some other poor sod had to take their place. And, not all that did so, were anti-war, some were even pro-war but didn't want to risk their butts or waste their time.

Others, usually anti-war, illegally fled the country to avoid the draft, thus becoming "criminals".

Still others, inevitably anti-war (and more courageous than I was), refused to participate and went to prison.

I had already put in my 4 years of misery so I was "safe" but demonstrated and burned my draft card and gave advice to kids trying to beat the draft which, sometimes, involved er....questionable activity.

I've never turned anyone in for anything, but I would't hesitate to blow the whistle to do so, if it involved ripping someone off, hit & run drivers, or anything else that was harmful to other people.

I still kind of wish I had blown the whistle on some the chickenhawks but doing anything to cooperate with the military was unthinkable.

[MadHound]

37. For me, that is always a case by case decision.

Really depends on the crime, the people involved, who the crime hurts, and various other factors. No way can I make a blanket statement on the matter.

[tibbir]

38. I would turn someone in for criminal behavior most likely

and would not be likely to turn someone in for cheating. One exception was that I turned my ex-boss in years ago for lying about my wages to avoid paying his fair share of payroll taxes. This affected my social security wages (and future SS benefits) so I turned him in and amended my W-2 on my tax return.

I don't think anything ever happened to him.