We should DU- AAR and complain about Franken

[BlueWolff]

All of us DU'ers should call and complain to AAR and say that Franken has been giving his Neo-CON friends airtime without disputing their hideous claims, and letting them repeat RNC talking points on our PROGRESSIVE radio station.........Those Neo-CONS get plenty of airtime on Hardball etc...We should have informative programing for progressives...Imgine Rush Loonbaugh having Randi Rhodes on his program...

[shoelace414]

1. Just because they are Franken's friends...

doesn't mean I want to hear him spew talking points.

[johnfunk]

28. I disagree. It's important to hear what our enemies say...

... and make no mistake: that fat, drunken turd Chris Snitchens is no friend of American progressives. He's an embarrassment and a liar. His provocateur act was tired in the 1980s.

OTOH, it's great to hear consevative Norm Ornstein disparage the Smirk Regime. I've heard Ornstein called a "traitor" on one right-wing talk show for appearing on Franken.

[SoCalDem]

52. The issue is that we have ONE teensy venue and "they"

have THOUSANDS.. There is ample opportunity to hear what "they" have to say..

A LIBERAL station should be just that..liberal..

This is a long-standing method of the rightwingers. they press the issue that everything should be "debated", so therefore they should ALWAYS be included in discussions held by liberals, but they do not do the same .

[corkhead]

2. funny,

I saw numerous threads complaining about him being on vacation last week.
:shrug:

[Teaser]

3. People only post with complaints

it's not just a political thing.

[BlueWolff]

4. Not from most of DU-ers

they were actually complaining that there should have been some one on the radio discussing the NEW issues not the old rehashed Loonbaugh shows...

[Strawman]

5. Count me out

His one dittohead friend from Minnesota who makes a buffoon out of himself every week?

I think it's absurd to suggest that Al's show is a neo-con vehicle. If he lets some neo-con talk on his show every so often as a guest, big deal. He's debunking their bullshit the rest of the time.

You wanna cannibalize one of the best things we have going in the media, go right ahead, knock yourself out, but count me out.

[Coastie for Truth]

6. If your IQ is as high as Franken's

you can see that he is drawing out their weak points and their inconsistencies.

See the DU thread , http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4230236.

This is where Al differs from Randi Rhodes and "Big Ed" Schultz.

Sometimes Al loses me with his esoterica and subtlety -- but if you listen carefully and know what's being discussed - he is subtle and good.

[BlueWolff]

16. I disagree

[quisp]

7. Don't do it. The Al Franken Show is just what we need.

What is it with Democrats and their circular firing squads? Al Franken is one of us!

If you have to complain about something start writing to Faux News sponsors and organizing boycotts of them

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Great points!!!

:applause: I love Al and his show. Seems some always have to have SOMETHING to bitch about. Perhaps they should start their own show and demonstrate how it should be done. :eyes:

[Capn Sunshine]

27. That continues to be the problem

everyone thinks THEIR nuance is the oNLY nuance, and we eat yet another of our own.

The Neocons took over this country because they were the opposite of that. And our inability to do things in that manner, to create a single minded message we repeat ad infinitum until it's embedded in the collective American subconscious, is why we are where we are.

[K-W]

9. I dont know what gave you the rediculous idea that DU doesnt like Franken

perhaps you think Franken bashing threads are a representative sample of DU opinion, they arent.

If you dont like Franken, change the station. Let the ratings do the talking. His job is not to please you per se. His job is not even to please DUrs per se (although I dare say he pleases plenty)

His job is to expose a national radio audience to progressive views. As long as he has the ratings he is doing his job.

[BlueWolff]

42. Exactly

By having Orenstein and the drunk on all we got today were RNC talking points (slightly diluted" By saying to Katherine that he wanted orenstein on because he was his friend..is meaningless. And I beg to differ with you...I would say MOST DU'ers don't like Franken but like some of his guests....

Here is proof that there are many many DUers that don't like Franken;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4236619&mesg_id=4236682

[Union Thug]

10. I don't care for Franken's show, but..

He, like Schultz, adds a layer of moderation for converts that might not be ready for my favorite pitbulls Malloy and Rhodes...

[earth mom]

11. Franken is too bland and wimpy.

Right now, more than anything, we need strong vocal counterpoints to Limbaugh et al.

But instead the most well known personality we have is someone who subtle and esoteric?! Puh-lease! :wtf:

[Coastie for Truth]

14. Probably didn't like Adlai Stevenson either? NT

[earth mom]

19. He was way before my time, thanks for asking though. EOM

[K-W]

18. How about a diversity of hosts, for people of all tastes,

instead of filling the dial with people you like?

[earth mom]

22. Perhaps, but Franken is the one seen on Letterman

and elsewhere. I would prefer someone stronger and more to the point as a spokesman.

Someone like Michael Moore would do a helluva better job, IMO.

[K-W]

24. He isnt thier spokesman, he got on shows because he was invited.

Letterman didnt ask AAR who they would like him to have on. He only invited Al because Al was already well known. Other than Garaffolo he was the only possible person who could do national publicity.

Would you like to present some evidence that Michael Moore has any interest in hosting a radio show? I dont doubt AAR would be interested in him.

[earth mom]

29. Exactly-Franken was well known before AAR-

doesn't mean that he's more popular though, does it? He's not to my taste, and so what?

And jeez-why do I have to prove anything about Michael Moore? I just stated that I would prefer to listen to him. No doubt Moore is too busy and doesn't need the money from a gig on AAR though he would be the best advertising they ever got and might be just what is needed to stomp out Limbaugh et al.

And that's the point of AAR isn't it? To defeat the rethug talking points? To show the American public it is being lied to by *Co, Limbaugh, O'Lielly, Faux News, etc.? What better way than with someone a lot of people respond positively to like Moore?

IMO, Franken is the kind of person you either love or who annoys the hell out of you. I'm in the latter group. :shrug:

[K-W]

31. You arent making any sense.

Exactly-Franken was well known before AAR-doesn't mean that he's more popular though, does it? He's not to my taste, and so what?

Actually that is exactly what it means. By virtue of his being famous he was far more popular than any of the other hosts outside of Janeane who also did plenty of publicity.

And jeez-why do I have to prove anything about Michael Moore? I just stated that I would prefer to listen to him. No doubt Moore is too busy and doesn't need the money from a gig on AAR though he would be the best advertising they ever got and might be just what is needed to stomp out Limbaugh et al.

And that's the point of AAR isn't it? To defeat the rethug talking points? To show the American public it is being lied to by *Co, Limbaugh, O'Lielly, Faux News, etc.? What better way than with someone a lot of people respond positively too like Moore?

You have to prove he was an option or your argument is completely bogus. You cant critisize AAR for not going with Moore if they never had the option of going with Moore.

[earth mom]

34. Sorry, but you are not making sense. Fame does not equal popularity.

Michael Jackson started out famous in a good way and morphed into someone who is famous for sick behavior that has ruined his reputation and popularity forever.

Also, my argument for Michael Moore as a host on AAR is an EXAMPLE. He is the kind of host I would like to see and that I think AAR sorely needs. If AAR wants to kick Limbaugh, O'Lielly and Faux's ass then they should step up and hire someone who WILL do just that. Simple as that.

[K-W]

35. I am making perfect sense.

A famous person is far more popular than an unkown person. And that includes Michael Jackson, who has way more popularity than say... me.

"Also, my argument for Michael Moore as a host on AAR is an EXAMPLE. He is the kind of host I would like to see and that I think AAR sorely needs. If AAR wants to kick Limbaugh, O'Lielly and Faux's ass then they should step up and hire someone who WILL do just that. Simple as that."

Well then he is a BAD example. Why dont you come back when you find a famous, popular person who will host the way you want and will agree to do a show. Until you find that person, why do you think he/she exists?

Because if this magical person better than Al Franken who wants to do radio doesnt exist, your criticism is moot.

[KharmaTrain]

37. Fame Gets Interest...

The old axiom is "say good, say bad, just say". Franken's one of the few...even on right wing hate radio...that has a standing invite on virtually every late night talk show. He's on Dave cause he and Dave are longtime friends and share a common contempt for meester boosh and his evil regime.

Franken's appearances in the start-up days to AAR helped get it on the map...especially since it was only on one radio station for most of it's first two months. He got the word out where it would have been impossible for others to do.

I am not a big Franken fan, but I appreciate Kathrine Lampeer's fine work and the many excellent guests who are on the show. For a long time there was no place to hear a Joe Connason or Lawrence O'Donnell...or even a Paul Hackett or Joe Wilson. Franken's show is the place they all go...and that's a hell of a lot better than no place at all.

Now if you think you can host or program better, I'm sure Jon Sinton at AAR would surely love to hear your tape. Or if there's a host he or any of us here haven't heard about, then let's hear about that, too.

[earth mom]

44. Can't people have opinions around here?

So I don't like Franken. So what? You like him. So what?
:shrug:

We are each entitled to our opinions.

And FYI-I never said "I' could do it better. I said that I think there are others who could do it far better than Franken who would really pull in the listeners and make a huge difference. If AAR wants to slam dunk the rethugs, I think that's what needs to be done.

[KharmaTrain]

46. Well, Whose Better Than Franken?

Instead of getting out the flamethrower, add something here.

You're upset with Franken. Fine. Don't listen. If you think someone else can do better, who do you think that person is? That's what I wanted to know. Is it someone already on AAR? If so that's kinda redundant, don't you think? If it's someone on another network or station that people here aren't aware about and have something good to say, we'd all like to know about them. Also, I'd like to know why you think that person would be better or do a better show than Franken.

BTW...while you say you couldn't do a better job, you finish your post with "I think that's what needs to be done". Sounds likes your playing Programmer to me. That's fine. I'm just asking that if you're gonna pitch a bitch, offer something as an alternative. Again, no flame here, I just would like to get a better idea of what you think is wrong and what's the remedy.


People think it's easy just to walk in and start yaking into a microphone for 3 hours a day 5 days a week. The good hosts make it sound that way. Radio isn't Franken's major medium...and I think he's gotten a lot better over the time he's been on radio. Again, I listen for Kathrine and the guests more than I care for Franken's shtick.

Peace...

[earth mom]

58. You may put Franken on a pedestal, but I don't.

I'm entitled to my opinion of him just as you are your admiration.

You demand answers of me that make no sense. All I have said is that AAR could and should do better. I never said I could do it better myself since that's not my job in the first place. Does AAR want to be number 1? Then hire Michael Moore if they can, or hire someone with the guts to kick the competitions ass! Because, IMO, Franken just ain't an ass kicker. :shrug:

[Snotcicles]

21. Franken is only bland and wimpy to those who don't get it. n/t

[earth mom]

23. Really, is that some sort of elitist attitude you are projecting or what?

You have your preference and I have mine, so why the attitude?

Like I just replied upthread: Give me Michael Moore or Randi Rhodes any day over Franken.

[K-W]

25. ignore mispost

[Snotcicles]

30. Didn't mean to come off as elitist. I like Randi also, sometimes

Maybe some of us have a varied palate.

[earth mom]

33. Exactly, we all have different tastes...

All I really want and would really love to see is someone on AAR who would just knock the crap out of Limbaugh, O'Lielly and Faux. If Franken can do it, great. But I think we need someone popular and very well liked by the public. Michael Moore would be great or maybe even a big time popular celebrity who isn't afraid of the rethugs.

[Coastie for Truth]

39. My wife is a very prim and proper MSW geriatric social worker

(and an SDSer in her youth) - she likes Franken, she "sees where you and your Dad relate to Big Ed", she likes Bobbie Kennedy and Pap -- but she can't stand Randi Rhoades.

I like Al Franken -- I like Big ED (heck - he's got me eating Walleyes - my grand mother used to make Walleye - but she called it Lake Erie Walleye) --

<>

[LeahD]

12. Isn't Franken one of the primary owners/investors of AAR? n/t

[garybeck]

13. while on vacation he was

abducted by men in black suits and told that they could make it look like a "mistake" and that even his kids' lives will be hell if he doesn't stop attacking Bush and start having neocons on his show. on the other hand a secret bank account in Switzerland and a Senate seat (compliments of electronic voting) would be a pretty nice life.

just kidding but who knows

[JitterbugPerfume]

15. one needs an IQ higher than their shoe size

to "get" Franken

That describes most Democrats

[napi21]

17. AAR EXISTS because of the work of Al Frankin!

You need to remember that! If you don't like his show, then don't listen to it! Sure, there are some skits he does that I don't particularly like, but he's had a lot of good points, and a lot of great guests on too!

I've gotta agree with a few other posters here. If Dems constantly slam their own, just for one or two things they disagree on, we're going to continue to loose elections!

We're never going to be lock-step Pubs, and I wouldn't want that either, but to continuously send arguments about other Dems for the Pubs to use against us is not a winning strategy. Believe me, there are just as many lurkers here on Du from the Freeper sites, ans there are Dems snooping around Free Republic.

[pretzel4gore]

20. email can't hurt!

AAR is for us....we need to let AAR know we care...lol

[K-W]

26. AAR is not for us.

AAR is meant to influence people not already tapped into the progressive movement through the internet. It is designed to find a new audience, not serve DU's audience.

[Rude Horner]

32. I would never say...

...that Al doesn't dispute their hideous claims. On the contrary, I think he usually does a fantastic job pointing out just how hypocritical they are. His bits with the resident ditto-head, IMO, are always entertaining because I like to hear Al go after the RW talking points of Rush.

Personally, I like Al's show a lot. I find his humor to be subtle and dry, but it's a nice change of pace from Randi's screaming. Don't get me wrong, I like Randi Rhodes too. I like her fire. But it would get old real quick if every show on AAR had someone screaming into the mic 24/7.

I agree with the poster earlier who commented about dem's and their circular firing squads. We need to pull together people, not attack those who are on our side on most issues. Look, there's no way AAR is going to find hosts who please everybody all the time. Just ain't gonna happen. So if there's somebody you don't like, then don't listen. But appreciate the fact that we finally have a voice out there trying to combat Faux.

[NancyG]

36. When will we stop the circular firing squad?

I am thankful for Al, Randi, Ed, Sam, all of them. Different points of view are good. Embrace them all for being progressive voices. We start shooting them, we're left with the RW assholes.

[applegrove]

38. Well put. Circular firing squad for sure.

[Coastie for Truth]

41. If we keep up the circular firing squad exercises, we will see

1) Rick Santorum beat Bob Casey in PA.
2) President Frist and Vice President Jeb Bush inaugurated in January 2009.
3) Darrel Issa defeat Diane Feinstein for the Senate.
4) The Boobengrabber reelected Gubernator.

[BlueWolff]

43. Doubtful

Although Feinstein needs to be replaced by a REAL progressive!!

[Coastie for Truth]

54. If we do the normal thing

our real progressive senator will be Darrel Issa, Tom McClintok, or Duncan Hunter or maybe, just maybe, Richard Pambo. Ah yes, maybe we could elect Richard Pambo - and or his California Senate counterpart -- Abel Maldonado.

PS - Are you going to be at Zoe Lofgren's fund raiser this Sunday? Or the Santa Clara County Democratic Club's Picnic on the 28th? Check the link in the DU Activist Forum.

I hate to brag about this, but I was court-martialed for campaigning for Hubert Humphrey in 1968 -- Hatch Act and Article 88. That was when a lot of Progressives sat on their hands because Humphrey came to the Anti-War movement too late, and did distance himself far enough from LBJ.

[BlueWolff]

56. I don't live in Calif, but I have many friends that do.

I find you a really brave person for going through a court martial etc. Nice to know you. If I can help with a dionation for a real progressive candidate against Feinstein let me know


BlueWolff

[Kingshakabobo]

I say we burn him at the stake!

[Kingshakabobo]

40. dupe delete

[longship]

45. Leave 'em alone.

AAR is doing well in all markets. People are listening to Franken. We don't need Franken to be preaching to the choir, we need him changing people's minds. I have no problem with him putting on anybody he wants on his program. Whatever he's doing, it is apparently working.

Maybe it would be a good idea to leave him alone.

[Eric J in MN]

47. Al Franken is one of the best hosts on the radio.

If you're tired of his show, listen to something else, but we don't need a letter drive against the show.

[journalist3072]

48. Franken does dispute their points....

When he has the neo-cons on he is always challenging them on the facts, and showing them how they are wrong.

He doesn't let them get away with misinformation.

I think need to cut Al some slack.

[immoderate]

49. I empathize with Franken.

It's not easy to do three hours of radio each day. It's ah, em, hard work! Well never mind that.

Al had great creds before he arrived at AAR. His books, "...Big Fat Idiot," and "Lies..." were acts of bravery for someone who had a terrific career going as a main stream comedian and comedy writer.

He could have done well staying where he was. He stuck his neck out to do his show. He has broken the mold of either rants, or riding phone calls. That he should have a variety of guests on is refreshing. But nothing radical. Hannity and O'Reilly have liberal guests on their shows. Even the resident dittohead schtick is an attempt at something different. It "demonstrates magnanimity" and gives Al a foil to work off of. The fact that Mark remains unmoved is actually indicative of the real world.

Orenstein is a good addition. His reputation is solid and he is an example that conservative thinkers don't have to be mindless echoes of administration dogma. Al isn't always great; he takes chances and sometimes falls flat. He is a great artist. (But I always liked his humor.)

I think it is OK to do other than to rant and complain, but sometimes I like that too. I can listen to Randi and Mike and Jeanean and Sam do their thing. Think of what there was before Franken. Nothing. Even Hitchens, who is mostly infuriating, has a different point of view. At least he is a militant anti-religionist. Somewhere under that unkempt, sodden mess is a unique thinker with a sense of humor. And I appreciate that though I know there are others who won't.

In short, I look forward to hearing Al on the radio, and when he flops I roll with him.

--IMM

Edit: to change some stuff.

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

50. Nah, I Like Franken.... he's doing a great job.

[rinsd]

51. Without Al, AAR likely does not exist....

Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot and Lies and The Lying Liars Who Tell Them ring any bells?

He put his fame behind it. Without him AAR likely never happens or dies in its cradle.

Would Randi still be successful? Likelyas she already had a huge fan base but also likely she stays put in syndication.

[XanaDUer]

53. No, let's not.

...

[Strelnikov_]

55. One Thing About Al. I Have Never Heard Him Making Snide Remarks

about other AAR hosts.

[converted_democrat]

57. I'm not going to complain.........

We have very few lefties on the radio.

[frazzledmom]

59. Imagine Rush Loonbaugh having Randi Rhodes on his program...

That would require that he actually have some facts to debate with... this is what seperates us from them. Intelligence and the guts to use it.