Spineless Dems (Edition 243390483): The Gun Corp Unaccountability Act

[BamaLefty]

See this weeks list of losers!

Lincoln, Pryor, Landrieu, Baucus, Conrad, Nelson, Reid and many more!! :eyes:

S 397: A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others.

http://vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?vote_id=3597

[SlipperySlope]

1. This is an important act - call your representatives in support!

We have had to wait far too long to get this act passed. Last year it was brought down with cynical gun control amendments. Please call your senator or representative to express your support!

[eallen]

2. Yep. The liability theory in such cases is pretty scary.

It is eerily similar to that used by crime victims who sue fiction authors, claiming that their assailants were inspired by a novel or story. Those who see this kind of litigation only in terms of guns are failing to see its broader impact on civil liberty.

[BamaLefty]

3. Why Would I Support My Rights Being Limited?

Can I be optimistic and assume that you're joking?

[SlipperySlope]

4. I am absolutely not joking.

The gun industry needs protection from predatory lawsuits. This law is overdue. I, as well as other pro-gun members of DU, look forward to seeing it pass.

[BamaLefty]

7. I'm Pro-Gun-- I Own One

But I stand with real Dems such as Kerry, Boxer, Kennedy, and Feingold--- you hang with the DLC corporate asskissers, but not me.

BS like this will lead to harmful, Repub supported tort reform.

-edit- "Feinstein" replaced by "Feingold"

[OrlandoGator]

8. Pffft! Feinstein is a "real Dem"?!?

Don't make me giggle and fall off my chair.

[BamaLefty]

9. On This Issue-- Yes

Hell, even Bayh did the right thing.

[OrlandoGator]

12. So please expound on your position. I did below.

You think that when a manufacturer legally transfers a firearm to a dealer, the dealer legally transfers it to a customer and that customer uses it to commit a crime...you honestly think that the manufacturer is liable?

By that exact logic, you must believe that Ford is liable whenever someone gets drunk and uses a Ford car to kill somebody. Am I right?

[SlipperySlope]

10. I stand with protecting gunmakers

Who are my grandchildren going to buy guns from if we let the gunmakers get sued out of existence? Are we going to let the design of firearms be dictated by lawyers instead of engineers?

"I'm Pro-Gun-- I Own One" - That reminds me of someone saying, "I'm not rascist, I even have a black friend"

[BamaLefty]

11. Are They Getting Sued Out of Exsistence?

Prove it.

[SlipperySlope]

14. Prove it?

Bryco arms went bankrupt and out of business as a result of lawsuits.

Bushmaster spent at least $2.5M to settle the suits against it from the washington sniper event:
http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=333&sid=265409

Colt Firearms stopped producing many of their handguns due to the threat of lawsuits: "we have to face the harsh reality of the significant impact which our litigation defense costs are having on our ability to operate competitively in the marketplace."

The Brady Center is suing Ruger:
http://www.bradycampaign.com/xshare/pdf/stateleg/faheem-complaint7-28-2005.pdf

The Brady Center is suing Hi-Point:
http://www.bradycampaign.com/xshare/pdf/stateleg/willams-complaint7-28-2005.pdf

[BamaLefty]

15. So Your Are Against The Filing of Those Particular Suits?

Again---

You stand with Trent Lott, Orrin Hatch, and Rick Santorum

I stand with Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, and John Kerry

[Fescue4u]

18. Kerry is pro gun.

He would never support such frivolous lawsuits.

[BamaLefty]

20. Oh Really?

You might wanna check that link, Orrin. Or should I call you Thune?

http://vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?vote_id=3597

MA Jr Senator John Forbes Kerry Democrat N

[eallen]

19. I never look to see who is with me or against me, before taking a stand.

Do you think I should?

:hippie:

[BamaLefty]

22. Of Course Not

I don't-- and I'm glad to see that you don't either.

But I do think that when you side with John Warner over Barbara Boxer that you have a serious problem.

[eallen]

13. "Tort reform" is a pretty meaningless phrase....

All lawsuits rely on some theory of liability. "Tort reform" can be used to describe any law that restricts or expands the theories that can be applied.

In my view, some "tort reform" makes sense. Including the law now being discussed. Other tort reform does not. I think a $250K cap on pain and suffering for medical liability is ridiculous. It makes no sense to me to lump it all together and insist that it must be supported or opposed as a package.

[Fescue4u]

17. lol.feinstein

She's a joke to the Senate, Democrats, California and San Francisco.

[BamaLefty]

21. I Agree

But she "NV'd" on this issue.

Boxer voted my way.

[OrlandoGator]

5. This is a great bill and I'm glad there are Dems who supported it.

Gun manufacturers should be held as liable for criminal acts as car manufacturers are held liable for DUI.

Note that this bill does NOT protect manufacturers or dealers who engage in illegal trade. Nor does it protect manufacturers from design flaw litigation.

So what's the problem? Do any of you honestly feel that gun makers who sell their products legally are responsible for the criminal acts of the end users? Three questions then:

- Can you also sue the steel and plastic manufacturers who supply the gun makers with raw material?
- Can you sue every previous owner of a gun when a crime is committed with it?
- Can you sue the ammunition manufacturer?

[SlipperySlope]

6. Well Said - Thank You! - N/T

[Fescue4u]

16. Bravo to those Dems

Once again its the Democratic party that embraces civil rights.

[BamaLefty]

23. WTF?

How is that? Manyyyyyyy more Dems voted NO than YES with the GOP being vice versa. So how do you make a statement like that. :wtf:

[Fescue4u]

27. Some don't believe in the entire constitution

Sad really.

[alarimer]

24. No industry needs protection from lawsuits

This is pure special interests. I could care less if a fucking gun manufacturer goes out of business. In fact the fewer the better I say.

[BamaLefty]

25. AMEN!

Now this is what I'm talking about!

[eallen]

26. Liability theories should make sense, regardless of the industry....

If you think gun manufacturers are responsible for crimes committed with the guns they sell, do you think authors are responsible for crimes committed inspired by their novels? Both kinds of litigation have prevailed in recent years. To my way of thinking, it's not a matter of "books are good" or "guns are bad," but that the legal reasoning in both cases is something that our laws should not admit.

[Fescue4u]

28. No industry should need protection

But sadly, many folks hate parts of the Bill of Rights and misuse existing laws to try to punish manufacturers for a legal product. Its amounts to an end run around the Bill of Rights

These lawsuits always fail of course, but they must be defended irregardless by the companies that manufacture these legal products.

The gun industry isnt the only business this is true of.

General aviation had the same problem for a different reason.

In the case of of G.A it wasnt foes of the Bill of Rights, but just greedy people. A pilot could stone drunk, take out a piper cub and fly it right into the ground. In virtually all cases, the manufacturer of the aircraft was sued.

Generally the manufacturer won (how can they be liable for drunk pilots!?), but still legal costs became unsustainable and it decimated the small general aircraft industry.

(I believe that G/A finally won this protection as well, but it came far to late)

Imagine if GM/Ford/Chrysler had to defend itself for EVERY accident caused by a stupid driver.

I support this Bill and I applaued everyone who voted for it.

[OrlandoGator]

30. So should Ford or GM be sued after a DUI fatality or injury?

Ford legally sells and transfers a vehicle to a person. That person gets drunk, gets behind the wheel of their new Ford and smashes into a family. Should Ford be held liable for the actions of the drunk driver?

This is an exact parallel, and NOBODY here has yet argued that Ford should be sued.

Why is there a double-standard applied to legally-sold firearms?

Anyone? Bueller?

[brentspeak]

29. Red State Dems are highly vulnerable on gun issues

Perhaps a N.J. or N.Y. Democrat senator can vote in favor of this bill without political repercussion, but Democratic senators from gun-traditional states would be instantly shown the door on Election Day.