Thimerosol doesn't cause Autism. Period.

[Modem Butterfly]

http://slate.com/id/2123647/

As the writer who first told the thimerosal story in depth in the New York Times Magazine two and a half years ago, I have been astonished to see how badly it has been handled since. David Kirby, a Times freelancer, published a supposed exposé in April that tells the story from the perspective of SafeMinds, a group that is to autism what Act Up was to AIDS—sometimes wrong but always loud and overall pretty effective. Then Kennedy entered the fray through his activism against mercury from power plants. In his appearances to champion the thimerosal theory, he trashes establishment science and establishment journalism for having missed the story. But Kennedy's Rolling Stone piece doesn't cover any new ground, and it is full of large and small errors and distortions. Aside from a June 25 New York Times article that discussed the parallel realities of parents and scientists studying thimerosal, there has been little mainstream media response.

Considering that about 9,000 lawsuits of claims have been filed against thimerosal and have the potential to wreck the pharmaceutical industry, the debate has high stakes. In 1997 Congress ordered the FDA to list all the mercury in food and drug products, and the agency had a "D'oh!" moment in 1999, when it discovered that since 1991 children receiving the normal complement of vaccines had been getting amounts of thimerosal that might push them over EPA-accepted mercury tolerances. To be sure, the EPA recommendations for mercury ingestion were based on studies of methyl mercury, which is generally considered more dangerous than ethyl mercury, the type thimerosal contains. (Read more about the distinction and how it relates to thimerosal's safety.) And the medical literature did not contain a single case of mercury poisoning leading to autism. Still, to be safe, the FDA asked manufacturers to take thimerosal out of vaccines. They did, and most of the thimerosal-containing vaccines were removed from the shelves by early 2002.

Since then, four perfectly good studies comparing large populations of kids have showed that thimerosal did not cause the increased reporting of autism. The best evidence comes from Denmark, which stopped putting thimerosal in vaccines in 1992; the rate of autism in kids born afterward continued to increase. A U.S. study showed slightly higher rates of tics in children who got more thimerosal at earlier ages, but no autism. An as yet unpublished study of about 1,000 children exposed to different levels of thimerosal in the United States also showed more tics in the children heavily exposed to thimerosal, but in addition showed they had fewer than average language delays. Both findings were marginally significant in statistical terms—though in unscientific terms, they are probably meaningless.

[benburch]

1. Nope.

But it is still implicated in ADHD.

[Ian David]

12. Documentation? n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

21. I don't think it has been substantiated.

Autism spectrum disorders appear to have a genetic component, along with some trigger that occurs.

ADD and ADHD were around before vaccines. I have ADD, and I am pretty sure my vaccines didn't have thimerasol. (I am almost 50)

[Modem Butterfly]

29. Very true

ADD and ADHD used to be called "Minimal Brain Dysfunction". It's worth noting that Ritalin was used to treat ADD as early as pre-WWII in Scandanavia. It is NOT a new drug and using it to treat ADD is NOT a new idea.

[back2basics909]

2. Seriously

Kennedy should be strung up for that article. He needs to check his facts and come out and say sorry and correct what he has done.

Nice to see Slate did the right thing and ran an article correcting it, but i fear less people will see this than the origional.

[SmokingJacket]

3. Until there's a convincing explanation for the increase in autism,

the mercury thing probably won't go away.

The fact that autism is increasing in countries that have long banned thimerosal is pretty definitive. We in the US should already be seeing a drop in cases, as well.

[Freddie Stubbs]

5. One possibility

is that there is no in increase, only an increase in children diagnosed with the condition. It is possible that there are children in the past who had the condition but were not diagnosed because not as many doctors understood as well in the pass.

[SmokingJacket]

10. That would be my non-expert guess. nt

[Midlodemocrat]

22. I think you nailed it.

With the increase on responsibility and school performance, children are being diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders much more readily.

[back2basics909]

6. The mercury link..

.. is pretty strong actually... but environmental Methyl Mercury not vaccines.

From the Autism society..

http://asa.confex.com/asa/2005/techprogram/S1234.HTM

There is a big study on going that takes baby teeth and tests them for various heavy metals. What they are finding is that Autistic children have more Mercury in their teeth and less in their hair than non-autistic children. There is a hormone that works to purge heavy metals from the body, and genetic test have shown that this could be playing a factor. It also explains why there are many more males than females with Autism.

Another study in Texas found high rates of Autism close to Mercury mines, this study has gone nation wide and continues to find higher levels of Autism per ton of Mercury pumped in to the environment from coal power plants.

Another study on women giving birth showed across the board women had dangerously high levels of Mercury in their systems.. much higher than the levels in Thermisol.

That said it's a spectrum of disorders, and it's likely some are not connected and some may have different causes. Aspergers for instance could turn out to be entirely genetic.

[Lexingtonian]

16. nice try

The fact that autism is increasing in countries that have long banned thimerosal is pretty definitive.

No, that interpretation isn't warranted by the evidence. It's itself a leap to a conclusion.
All that this study or two show is that in these particular countries thimerosal, in the manner and quantities in which it was used there, is or has become a minor contributor or noncontributor.

The correlation with near-toxic levels of bivalent heavy metals remains unrefuted. Susceptibility looks genetically like a problem of removing bivalent heavy metal ions. Northern Europe, i.e. Denmark where this 'refutation' originates, is as far as I know rather contaminated with environmental cadmium from coal burning upwind, in the U.K. In the U.S. the correlates are environmental mercury levels, also from burning coal.

Supposedly there is a drop off in autism diagnoses being seen in California, where the 'epidemic' is highest, in the last year or two.

I consider the phenomenon well muddled by the players in it. The childhood leukemia and wider cancer epidemic of the late Sixties and early half of the Seventies is pretty clearly traced to benzene levels in plastics and gasoline of the time, but Industry managed to confuse the evidence and bury the victims. No doubt the strategy of muddling data to buy time involving thimerosal, no matter the degree of responsibility by the vaccine makers, is also being played at the moment.

[qwertyMike]

4. It may not cause Autism, but it's lethal

http://www.the-cma.org.uk/HTML/hatter.htm

Mad Hatter syndrome (Mad as a Hatter) was caused by mercury ingestion.

King Charles I (or II) was a chemist who used a lot of mercury. he went 'nuts'

As a scientist at Connaught Labs, Toronto over 30 years ago I argued against the use of Thimeorsal as a preservative in vaccines.
Like Lead, when ingested into the body it stays there causing serious problems.

As for autism, in the '70's it wasn't even on the radar

Mike

[back2basics909]

8. Three types..

Of Mercury some are bad, some not so bad. The type we know is all around us, that we can see in umbilical chords AT BIRTH in amounts 10 to 50 time as high as in vaccines is more dangerous than the Mercury in Thermisol.. so where is the problem?

Mercury has already been removed from vaccines, cleaning up the environment will take decades.

[Kraklen]

28. It depends on the concentration.

As with all chemicals. At the ultra-dilute concentration in vaccines it's harmless. Yes, autism wasn't even on the radar in the '70s. And thimerasol dates back to before that. So explain that.

[back2basics909]

58. Sorry thats just crap...

Autism has been around for ever. There are lots of documented cases. Einsten is though to be Aspergers.

There was Autism around detection was not as good.

My mom works with Autistic adults, my wife works at a school for Autism. I know people over 50 with Autism. But it was around long before that.

[seabeyond]

7. autism for the first time has gone down in u.s. since the high rise in

numbers. the mercury has been taken out of the vaccinations

ya, right. the mercury has nothing ot do with it

[back2basics909]

9. It would have dropped...

It would have dropped if it were vaccines. This is something this report didn't mention. If in 2002 we removed most vaccines (some did remain) and normally kids are diagnosed at 2-3, we would have seen a HUGE drop in numbers not a statistical blimp as we did see in one state. The drops was well withing error margins.

[seabeyond]

11. i saw the interaction with vacines with both children in two different

ways. i watched the government heap on more and more vaccinations sometimes creating it so a 4 year old was up to 5 shots in one day. my 7 year old has had 28 shots of shit go into his body. for so many reasons this is wrong. this has taken a good thing to an abused thing. pisses me off

i dont trust the mercury in vaccinations

i dont like, and havent like all hte stuff at one time that is going into a little body to have to work on.

i dont trust our government

i dont trust our medical

i dont trust our pharmacutical

and i dont trust the with my babies

autism increased, mercury increased. mercury declined, autism decline

do i have the answers? i dont. i know what i saw with my kids. and i dont trust any of these poeple

[seabeyond]

14. i also actively started fighting with doctors and others on antibiotics

from birth of my first child. i watched the consumption of antibiotics shoved at my children. and i would say no thank you when i felt i needed to. i challenged doctor, didnt demand a prescription for babies. i watched parents do this. as i watched the super bacterias, and the kick ass antibiotics, that really took my youngest down

so often i allowed my boys bodies to fight disease, at least allowing it the opportunity at having a little practice.

many of my beliefs of antibiotics have come to fruation.

didnt catch the soy milk thing though. pisses me off. fed it to my boy for a year, like i was suppose to. (nope, didnt breast feed. ah and how guilty we can make a mama feel.)

embraced the fat thing. my hcildren didnt have to experience that

do you know how much research a parent has to do today, on EVERYTHING. because we cant trust. have already done massive research on add, autism, bipolar, adhd. and drugs.

[earth mom]

42. Exactly-The U.S. Government can NOT trusted-NOR can the Pharma Giants!

They will twist this thing around until no one knows which end is up-they are masters at it. :grr:

What kind of bastards are these people who would do this to children and their families?! :grr:

Anyone who defends them must either work for them or have a "vested" interest-ie. stocks. :grr:

[back2basics909]

57. In flu shots..

There is less than 1mg, in MMR's there was less than 0.2.

Some women are born with 16mg of Mercury in the blood. Methy Mercury.

So that would mean 10 flu shots and about 20 MMR's in the space of a week. Just doesn't happen.

However it cannot help either.

[Ian David]

13. Mercury, maybe. Thimerisol, no.

The Japanese study was particularly definitive.

In any case, injecting any kind of Mercury can't possibly be good for you.

But not getting vaccinated is worse.

Bottom line: Avoid vaccines with Thimerosol in them if you can do so without avoiding the vaccines themselves.

The Japanese learned this the hard way.

[seabeyond]

15. But not getting vaccinated is worse.........i am not afraid of chicken pox

nor am i afraid for my children. i am not afraid of the flu, west niles, or hyp a. i have done the research on these disease, i know the facts, and the risks, i am not afraid. threre are a handful more of the shit injected into the kid, when i dont feel he needs it. but then, wtf......we have law to tell us to do it anyway, and a lazy ass comment of not getting vaccination is worse. i challenge that. i challenge the not getting vaccination for chicken pox, worse than chicken pox

now the obvious one, polie, sure

that thinking, though i am giving my children vaccination cause disease is worse.....i am also eliminating a lot of vaccinations that are passed thru law for fuckin profit to pharmacuticals. then gov and doctors and pharmacist get together and tell me, if i love my children, i would do this.

i say, fuckin stupid manipulation, screw you, you cant make me think i might not love my children. duh. i think i know better

i am not going to be played. be it vaccinations
behavorial drugs
car safety, airbags, starone
second hand smoke
christianity
morality
war

where am i going to trust anyone. the best i have going for me, i do the research and say, screw you all.

the increase in all these vaccinations leaves me to question/. 28 in a 7 year old body. seems a lot to me. and gov wants more.

[Ian David]

18. Why the hostility? Anyway, I was thinking of Polio, Hepatitis, and MMR

Geesh.

Chill out.

I'm not faulting you in any way.

I have no idea where all the hostility came from.

[seabeyond]

19. i am doing unhealthy things with my children because a government

tells me to. i am passionate about this. hence the hositlity. i would hope you owuldnt take it personally. i think there was a little more into what i was expressing, than just hostility. maybe it may create conversation, if one doesnt take it personally. wasnting thinking much about you at all. was thinking about the subject. may make me hostile. cause i know it makes me angry

[Ian David]

20. Okay, then "screw-you" meant "screw the doctors," not "screw Iandb1"?

Got it.

But still...

[seabeyond]

24. nope not even you

and laughing my ass off, i love your pictures. it has been said i am awfully aggressive for a female. makes texas males AWFULLY uncomfortable, wink

[etherealtruth]

41. You do NOT have to vaccinate your children ...

... you must fill out a waiver stating your objections (often available from your local health dept.) You may refuse based upon "philosophical objections", as well as religious and medical reasons. I,actually, believe in immunization and have immunized all three of my children; I wanted you to know that you DO have the right to refuse though.

[Modem Butterfly]

44. Sure, you can just let them get Diptheria, Whooping Cough, Lockjaw...

[etherealtruth]

49. Sometimes, when it's pointed out to you ...

... you realize that you have chosen to do something ... vs. "feeling" that you are doing something soley because the government tells you that you must (as the 19th poster expresses)

[Modem Butterfly]

54. Yeah, like choosing to endanger your children...

[etherealtruth]

56. I'm not understanding this reaction ...

clearly in my post I state that I have immunized all of my children (indicating a belief in doing so) ... I think we all NEED to be aware of our legal rights.

I worked as a nurse (gero-psych and Hospice) for over a decade prior to retiring to raise my children ... unfortunately, I have witnessed the (unusual) downside to childhood vaccination ... I choose NOT to share those stories, fearing that people will be swayed NOT to immunize----complications are not usual but can be extremely severe.

Keep in mind: the manufacturers of vaccines can NOT be sued for problems assoc. with their vaccines for anything short of fraud and/or deliberate or gross negligence.

I see no problem with making sure people are informed of their rights.
The post I responded to, gave the impression of being "very angry" that s/he was being forced (by the government) into immunization. I wanted them to understand that they were in fact making a choice!

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Measles, Mumps, Rubella,

Polio, . . .

[beam me up scottie]

33. Nobody does.

Have I told you how much I love that picture?

[bloom]

17. There is no legitimate reason to put mercury/Thimerosal in vaccines.

I don't know why any sane person would push for it.

[Midlodemocrat]

23. It was my understanding that thimerasol had been removed

from vaccines?

[bloom]

25. It has been mostly removed. From the "Autism Society of America":

HHS Press Conference Cause for Concern;
ASA Affirms Support for Bill Removing Mercury from Vaccines for Children


The Autism Society of America (ASA) was concerned during a Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) press conference last week, particularly because representatives from HHS, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and others “did not address the autism epidemic that exists in this country, which is growing at similar rates in many parts of the world,” said ASA President & CEO Lee Grossman. “Instead, HHS repeated the same message regarding vaccine safety that many in the autism community have challenged.”


On the subject of vaccines and autism, “ASA has consistently asked agencies to undertake more research, specifically with clinically-based subjects rather than large-scale epidemiological studies that do not address the possible subsets of those who may be more prone to injury by vaccines and their additives; has insisted that those who have been injured by vaccines be fairly compensated and receive the services and interventions that are appropriate and necessary; and has supported legislation that calls for the removal of thimerosal from all vaccines,” said Grossman.


And while HHS at its press conference had an opportunity to address the lack of appropriate services for individuals with autism across the lifespan, the woefully inadequate funding for research, and the steps it would take to address this national health crisis and therefore build a trusting relationship and dialog with the autism community, the presentations may have caused further divisiveness and did not directly address concerns about vaccine safety.


A step in the right direction for the autism community, however, is the bipartisan Mercury-Free Vaccine Act of 2005 (HR. 881), introduced by Congressman Dave Weldon, MD (R, FL-15) and Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney (D, NY-14), and the Senate version, S. 1422, introduced by Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NB), both of which ASA staunchly supports. The bills ensure, through law, that thimerosal will be phased out, and kept out, of vaccines.


“ASA wholeheartedly endorses both bills, and applauds legislative efforts to protect our nation’s future. We appreciate the continued support of families in the autism community by Dr. Weldon, Congresswoman Maloney, and Senator Hagel,” said ASA Board Chair Cathy Pratt.


“ASA looks forward to the passage of HR.881 and S. 1422, and to the removal of the potential exposure of our children to mercury through vaccines. ASA urges the passage of both bills, and we ask that the President and the Secretary of Health and Human Services directly engage the autism community to address the funding for autism-related services and research,” added Grossman.

--------

This is the statement of a very respected National Austism group. (Not a bunch of "nuts" IOW :) ).

[bloom]

26. Autism Society of America website:

http://www.autism-society.org/

[Midlodemocrat]

31. LOL. Definitely not a bunch of nuts.

I worked with them when I was practicing because I had a subgroup of Aspies who were trying to develop social skills. Very knowledgeable and very kind people.

[bloom]

32. I just added that

because some people - like the writer of the article in the OP for instance - would like for people to get the idea that only the "nuts" would say that Thimerosal should be taken out of vaccines. :silly:

[Lexingtonian]

27. it was cheap and easy

It's pretty old as 'technology', back from the early days of trying to store concentrated virus in liquid suspension. Without adding anything to the suspension most or all viri get destroyed in a hurry.

No one had much of an idea at the time (roughly, the 1930s and 1940s) of what the chemical requirements of a viral preservative were, other than that the overall pH and solute concentrations had to resemble that of blood for viri that survive in human bloodstream, so anything and everything was thrown in. Thimerosal simply worked out best for vaccines, empirically.

And since mercury is largely a toxic waste product that various industries will give you money to take off their hands, and, the salicylic acid component is trivial to manufacture (aspirin), thimerosal was/is cheap.

It was used when the first major vaccines were mass manufactured and mass administered and there didn't appear to be any noticeable effect. But in those days most pharmaceutical products were not well tested, there wasn't much epidemiology or backtracking of side effects, and drug manufacturers were swamping the markets with all kinds of new drugs. The Forties and Fifties gave us LSD, a slew of antibiotics, the Pill, the antibiotics, barbiturates, valium, anticonvulsants, steriods, amphetamines, blood pressure regulators, the first diabetes treatments. Today we have a small industry to keep track of it all...in those days it was it was almost the Wild West out there. It took a major disaster- the Thalidomide Catastrophe- to get a regulatory system and legal responsibility and funded large-scale scientific study/tracking in place in the Sixties.

A lot of stuff slipped between the cracks and was swept into the cracks and swept under the rugs between then and now. A lot of pharmaceutical companies escaped consequences for intentionally and/or inadvertantly putting bad drugs on the market, a few got wrongfully victimized by scares involving reasonably safe drugs.

Thimerosal was what the old fellows in the vaccine making companies knew to be cheap and easy and lacking in known dangers when production was ramped up in the Eighties. It was a default choice on the economics. The science involved wasn't well understood and they probably didn't have all the leeway or scientific desire to worry about it- after all, the risk was going to be taken by company management, not themselves, and management wasn't interested in vague worries about the science or particularly conscious of an unnecessary risk being taken. Responsible science probably simply fell into the cracks in the process, then it went to Everybody's Doing It groupthink.

[bloom]

30. From what I've read

studies that showed it to unsafe have been suppressed/ignored over the years.

There were studies in the 80's where people were concerned about Thimerosal in dog vaccines...

(I know they have "reasons" - as a preservative - I just don't consider that to be a legitimate, justifiable reason to endanger our health. And it's no excuse to say as many do - that it is necessary to vaccines - when obviously the vaccines can be and are made without it.)

[Karenina]

34. It's not about Thimerisol being the "cause."

Having spent a decade dealing with this I hope you will indulge my "layman's opinion." FIRST and FOREMOST, "Autism" is a catchall label. I did layman's research for our pediatrician, who was in charge of the official "recognitions" in our area. Being the daughter of a neuropsychiatrist who shared his "art" with me from an early age, I was painfully aware of the gap in knowledge of the medical community AND armed with some rudimentary language skills to engage them. THAT made the difference for my kid.

It was clear my second son was WD (wired differently). It was also clear that his reactions to vaccinations were extreme. I observed several hundred children, made suggestions to parents about testing for allergies, followed up, inquired about post-vaccination manifestations... Dr. J had told me quite honestly, "Look, my training does not include your hypotheses, make me a case and here's how you do it." So I reported back to him faithfully in addition to seeking out all those doing research. In all my observations I found only 3 kids who CLEARLY exhibited manifestations similar to my son's. I observed so many subsets that I recognized as similar but had only my rudimentary language to explain. However, Dr. J found my cases convincing and incorporated some of those findings into his practice.

It is not a question of Mercury derivatives being CAUSATIVE, they may simply be exacerbatory. EXTREMELY SO. The questions that need to be asked do NOT have simple yes or no answers.

[bloom]

40. What I am acutely aware of...

because of my daughter - is that people do not always recognize ASD - esp. Aspergers until people are late teens to adults - if then. And that doesn't mean that there are not significant problems. I also ran into the problem of psychiatrists/psychologists not recognizing it.

That makes it even harder to study/make connections.

I am skeptical of people who are close minded about it - that don't want to have research that takes into account suppressed immune systems - or whatever.

Kennedy brought up many of the things to be concerned about as well - such as data being suppressed and studies being decided before they were done and legislation that does not allow liability for pharmaceuticals.

While I can understand the CDC and such being against anyone finding fault with Thimerosal (liability for them) - I don't understand why others care so much - esp. since vaccines can and will continue.

[Lexingtonian]

36. yep

Wouldn't surprise me. Swept under the rug. Unfortunately, animals are de facto what we term autistic to varying degrees and we can't use them to figure out this specific problem. Everyone agrees that mercury causes various neurological problems (as do a lot of bivalent heavy metals) leading into the tic disorder/Parkinsonism/ADHD/OCD/mental retardation/autism spectrum. A spectrum that is considered medically a continuum of disorders and responsive to dopaminergic system drug treatments.

But, as you can see in the opening post and a few scientifically semi-literate folks' views, the final inference that autism could additionally be part of the spectrum by causation as well as is refuted despite the evidence not actually doing that. As far as I can tell, the language delay/disability is the only primary element of autism not yet specifically connected to heavy metal or mercury toxicity.

I think the chemical requirements for a viral preservative are pretty comprehensively understood now and it's almost trivial to make ones from truly harmless and cheap substances. There's no meaningful rational to using thimerosal these days for much of anything; in fact in areas where water is recycled there's incentive to not even put the amount of mercury that involves into the circulating water supply.

[Elidor]

35. Well, let's all do some Thimerosol shots then!

I'll bet it's a good buzz.

[garybeck]

37. ahem. excuse me. Kennedy is "full of errors" ?

If you're going to make a claim that someone's work is full of errors and distortions, it would be good to give a few examples.

People should read Kennedy's article:

http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/061605HA.shtml

This article outlines factual information. It talks about documents obtained by the Freedom of Information Act, which indicate that the higher-ups in the drug industry and the CDC acted together to hold back information from the public that was vitally important, and it shows that they were extremely concerned about the data.

Which part of Kennedy's article is full of distortions?

Are you refuting the contents of the documents obtained by the FOIA?

Kennedy calls the FOIA a smoking gun, not necessarily about thimerosal, but about the people setting policy.

Personally, I still don't want thimerosal or any mercury in my kid's bloodstream. And Kennedy's article makes me realize I need to take the initiative as a parent and not trust the drug companies or the CDC to look out for me.

I think if you are going to make accusations about Kennedy and his article you should make specific references and not sweeping generalizations that are unsubstantiated.

[Modem Butterfly]

38. Did you read the original article?

The writer most definitely read Kennedy's article, and goes on to blow several holes in the theory. Unfortunately, due to copyright laws, I am limited from quoting more than a few paragraphs.

Probably the most damning epidemiological evidence against the vaccines-cause-autism theory, and another point that Kennedy gets wrong, is contained in the document that got critics started on their claim of a vaccine-provoked epidemic—a 1999 Department of Developmental Services report from California. Like reports from other states in the country, it shows a dramatic increase in autistic children seeking state services, from 2,778 autistics on the rolls in 1987 to 10,360 in 1998. An impressive diagram of this increase was projected on a screen at a Committee for Government Reform hearing chaired by Indiana Republican Dan Burton, who believes that vaccines gave his grandson autism. "Look at that graph," Burton said. "They are having an epidemic out there." But the graph actually vindicated vaccines. MMR vaccination began in children born in 1970, but there was no increase in autism reports in the state until 1980, which also happened to be the first year the psychiatric definition of autism spectrum disorders changed. A 2001 study showed that while MMR vaccination rates increased 14 percent from 1980 to 1994, autism intakes in California's state programs increased 373 percent. The increase also showed no apparent connection to the addition of thimerosal-containing vaccines to state pediatric immunization schedules.

[beam me up scottie]

39. Salon.com flushes its credibility down the toilet

From Respectful Insolence (a.k.a. "Orac Knows")

Believe it or not, I've been a fairly regular Salon.com reader for at least the three years. Despite its leftward tilt, I've generally enjoyed the writing and features. I've even linked to Salon.com articles and features on occasion. Now I'm going to have to reconsider my opinion of the site. Why? Salon.com has just plopped down on the web the biggest, steamingest, drippiest turd I've ever seen it publish, an article so mindnumbingly one-sided and uncritical that in my eyes it utterly destroys nearly all credibility Salon.com has had as a source of reliable news and comment. Honestly, the editors of Salon.com should hang their heads in shame for publishing this paranoid piece of fear-mongering and trumpeting it as "investigative reporting."

The article to which I refer is, of course, Deadly Immunity (which was a "coinvestigation" by Salon.com and Rolling Stone--a magazine whose attempts at investigative journalism I haven't taken seriously in years). It's a one-sided account by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. of the supposed link between thimerosal in vaccines and autism that is being promoted by antivaccine activists as an indictment of the government and pharmaceutical companies. For example, the Schaefer Autism Report e-mail list reports that ABC News has cancelled appearances by RFK Jr. on 20/20 and Good Morning America this week. The e-mail invokes the usual conspiracy-mongering, saying, "Our opinion is that they are more concerned about protecting their huge advertising revenues from the pharmaceutical industry than reporting news that could protect pregnant women, infants and children from mercury tainted vaccines." Personally, I suspect it was because ABC News probably figured out that the article was a biased and shoddily researched piece of crap, but then that's just my opinion and hope. Certainly, the newsletter does nothing to dispel my suspicion that this was nothing more than a propaganda piece:

Lujene Clark, co-founder of NoMercury and A-CHAMP (Advocates for Children's Health Affected by Mercury Poisoning), worked extensively with Mr. Kennedy and his office over the past several weeks in preparing the article for publication. The print copy will contain a sidebar from Ms. Clark, providing perspective from her experience as the mother of a thimerosal-injured child and advocate for removing mercury from vaccines.
So the preparation of the article was heavily influenced by an antivaccination activist. Gee, why am I not surprised to learn this? Why didn't Salon.com just let Lujene Clark write the article? The result would have been the same. In any case, there's so much misinformation, paranoid conspiracy-theory raving, and one-sided stuff in this article that it's hard to know where to start. Fortunately, I've dealt with this topic a few times before recently. Here are just a few of the major problems with the article:

more at:
http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2005/06/saloncom-flushes-its-credibility-down.html

[H2O Man]

43. Interesting article.

And there are a number of interesting responses, both to the article linked to, and on this thread. I think that it's good to have frank and open discussions about issues such as this. While I do not pretend to have any grasp of science that could shed light on mercury and autism, I would like to note a couple things I find interesting about the tone of the conversation.

I would hesitate to put much trust in anyone's opinion who claims they know THE answer to this serious debate. Surely, there are significant studies, the results of which each side believes supports their stance. Even with my limited grasp of science, I am inclined to believe that ingesting mercury is probably not a wise idea. More, injecting it into an infant would seem unwise.

I like to look at what might motivate people to take the positions they do. The author of the article, Arthur Allen, notes that 9,000 lawsuits connected to this conflict have the potential to wreck the pharmaceutical industry. I lack objectivity here: the pharmaceutical industry isn't one of my favorites, and I suspect that the lawyers who represent their interests care more about the dollar than about human interests. I'll have something else to say about this in a minute.

It is also obvious that the author is a bit territorial, and feels the need to identify what he views as his status: "... as the writer who first told the thimerosal story in depth...." I weigh this against his apparent obvious hostility towards Robert Kennedy, Jr.

For example, he starts with this: "Bobby Kennedy, Jr., a lawyer beloved by the environmental movement for defending rivers and attacking coal-burning power plants, recently discovered a new cause." Actually Robert is the most successful and high-profile environmental attorney in the country. He is beloved by a wide segment of the population, because of his intense advocacy for environmental safety as a human right. Millions of Americans are aware that Robert works to protect the health and safety of human beings. This includes, obviously, his concerns about things such as polluted rivers and toxic discharges from coal-burning plants. That Allen twists this, and attempts to belittle the work Robert has done is enough to make me question his objectivity.

Allen goes on to list the television appearances Robert has made since his article in Rolling Stone. I find the personal "tone" to be as interesting as the differences in interpretation of the scientific studies. I will say that from the things I've read and watched, Robert has taken a strong position, which is shared by others. And he will always draw more media attention than Mr. Allen. That media attention should not be included in Allen's focus on science.

I will also say that I am not totally objective about Robert. On a couple occasions, I have had the privilege of his generous assistance. In every instance, Robert's only concern was to help people at the grass-roots level help themselves. In one case, where a small, isolated neighborhood was unabled to advocate for itself, Robert made two of the top environmental consulting groups available at no cost to the neighborhood involved. More, Pace University provided free analysis of the legal issues involved.

I worked, at times, with both the NYC DEP and the USA EPA. Both agencies had a bit of hostility towards Robert at some levels. However, in my dealing with almost every scientist, and literally every attorney employed to protect the public from both agencies, I found that they had the utmost respect for Robert.

I also found that our government has a policy that is little understood by the general public. There tends to be an "acceptable level" of injury or deaths that can be caused by toxic wastes such as mercury, PCPs, TCE, etc., before they take any action. For example, in a public debate with a scientist from the NYS DEC, I asked how many "cancer clusters" they had found to exist in the state. Of course I knew at the time that they had investigated about 400 reports of suspected cancer clusters, and had determined that zero existed.

Again, I'm no scientist, but I don't believe a word out of the mouth of a scientist who says cancer clusters do not exist. And I am not convinced by anyone who says there there is absolutely no connection between mercury and autism, when they include concerns about the pharmaceutical indstry or a bitter personal attack against Robert.

[beam me up scottie]

45. Hi H2O Man,

Did you check out the blog I linked to in my post just above yours?

I was in your shoes when I first read the Salon article.

After blogging around for a few days, I came across Orac Knows.

He's a surgical oncologist and a laboratory research scientist.

He writes an excellent (although somewhat lengthy) article that refutes Kennedy's account using previous studies and existing data.

Of particular interest are the trackbacks from parents and doctors.

If you have the time, it's well worth the read.

Here is the link:
http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2005/06/saloncom-flushes-its-credibility-down.html

And you might enjoy some of his other "ramblings" as he calls them.
I know I do.

[H2O Man]

47. Yes, thank you.

I will be sure to read it. I'm happy to say that a few people have e-mailed me a variety of related information on studies that seem to indicate there are a wide range of interpretations. It is obviously an inportant topic, where there are differing views regarding what role mercury may -- or may not -- play in autism.

I will say, on an admittedly unscientific note, that at the community mental health clinic where I was employed in the 1980s through 2003, that there was definitely an increase in the number of cases of children with autism being diagnosed. (I did not wrk with children, but am aware of this from staff meetings.) My understanding, from talking to co-workers with far greater knowledge and insight than me, was that it was believed to be as a result of a variety of environmental and genetic factors -- something both Kennedy and Allen would probably agree on. I do not think that "new ways" to diagnose autism was a factor in the increase we saw.

I will also mention that in doing studies of health problems potentially associated with long term exposure to toxic wastes (from living in a neighborhood blessed with a 120-acre dump site) I would look for assistance to a good friend. He was a pediatrician, on the faculty of Syracuse University. And he often explained to me that people's bodies process things such as TCE, PCBs, and heavy metals, differently. An attorney from the US Department of Justice told me the same thing: that in a small, rural neighborhood, one would not, for example, assume that different cancers were necessarily unrelated. And that seems to be the message from at least a couple of the e-mails I have read through this morning.

A small world: the doctor's daughter had worked in the same prosecutor's office as Robert. But that's another story .... just part of the ramblings of an old man who misses one of his best friends. Again, thank you and I look forward to reading the article you suggested.

[bloom]

46. Good post.

:thumbsup:

[H2O Man]

48. Thank you.

Again, I recognize that there are a variety of interpretations of the numerous scientific studies involved here. What concerned me, in large part, was the rather obvious anti-Robert emotional trash that might keep some from being objective.

I note that one of the responses to the article linked on the OP was titled "A Kennedy Lawyer That Knows More Than MDs," and stated, "How interesting. What's in this for the young Kennedy? Perhaps he should have checked with Ted before opening his sewer." Now there's a wonderful mixture of class and intelligence.

Even on this thread, one human being wrote, "Seriously, Kennedy should be strung up for that article." Only slightly less obvious than the first example as an example of someone who would disagree with Robert on anything and everything.

In Robert's newest book, "Crimes Against Nature," there is information about how certain industries are taking aggressive actions to attack Robert's positions, and it includes having people trail and attempt to intimidate him. Surely, that doesn't mean everyone who disagrees with him falls into that group. But it does mean that anyone who writes an article that attacks him as an individual, questions his motives, and notes that lawsuits threaten the pharmaceutical industry deserves to have his/her motivation considered.

This is about children. It's about the quality of life. There is a lot of emotion involved. Again, I am not fully objective. As I've noted on other threads, in 1998 one of my nephews and a friend were the victims of a vicious gang assault. On 7-2-98, Robert wrote to NYS Attorney General Dennis Vacco "in reference to an incident of racially motivated violence .... in which two men .... were badly injured. I hope your office will investigate the circumstances of this incident and take appropriate action.

"The incdent occured as (the two) were leaving the General Clinton canoe Regatta, a popular event. After first baiting (my nephew) with racial epitets, a group of young men ambushed (the two) as they walked to their cars. (They were attacked from behind), knocked unconscious, severely beaten and left lying in the parking lot. Both boys were hospitalized, and (my nephew) has suffered permanent hearing loss and nerve damage."

Vacco, of course, ignored Robert's letter. But my point is that a family is appreciative of Robert's advocating for justice in cases that involve one of their children. And even if Mr. Allen says our family loves Robert because of his interest in the river the canoe regatta navigates, it does not decrease the value of what Robert has done.

[bloom]

50. I've been impressed with Robert Kennedy

It has just been recently - the last six months that I have seen a speech by him (FSTV) about the mercury pollution problem and more recently the Thimerosal/Autism link.

There are so few politicians speaking out about these things - that it is nice to see him do so - just him having political celebrity family connections.

It sounds to me that he has read a lot about it. If only more were paying attention.

For the most part - it has been politicians whose families are affected that are involved.

[chicagomd]

52. These vaccines contain Thimersol:

www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm

If you are not vaccinating your children because of a concern about Thimerosal, you are wrong. Please stop associating vaccines with Thimerosal, because the two are, for the most part, no longer connected.

The association between autism and mercury is a spearate issue. When you confuse the two you confuse and mislead a lot of people out there looking for an answer to a very difficult question: Why is my child sick?

[H2O Man]

53. No one on

this part of the discussion had advocated not getting children vaccinated. Hence your post is of no more value than if I accused you of advocating feeding puppies on super highways.

[chicagomd]

55. Forgive me.

Sorry I offended your thread sensibilities by jumping in late, H2O Man. Although I have to admit I fail to see the "value" in bashing someone else's posts.

People reading this thread might find factual information concerning the actual thimerosal content of vaccines in use today somewhat helpful and educational. Admittedly, I also did some editorializing about my feelings towards vaccinations, and how false information about them can lead parents to make poor decisions about their child's health.

Please continue with your discourse. I hope no one else has the gall to try and interject their own thoughts.

And I swear it was just some guy that looked like me feeding the puppies.

[H2O Man]

59. The actual content

in today's vaccines is obviously important. It is already listed on the thread, and is not in dispute. Your post, however, was in reference to people advocating that children not get vaccines, which was nonsense. It was not mentioned in this series of posts by anyone but you. You attributed it to others. But you own it.

[sintax]

61. Are vaccines possibly over rated?

I live in a smallish city where the percentage of children who do not get vaccinated is quite high compared to the average. These children are without a doubt the healthiest, most energetic children aroud-least likely to get sick.
Of course there are many factors involved, diet being the most important.

Fear based medicine is the common practice. The 'cure is prevention'.

Doctors often get a few pesos per vaccination and always put some form of pressure, guilt on the parent to get the vaccination.

Thimerosol is dangerous and unnecessary.

[bloom]

60. Don't tell me what to do.

I think it's a good idea for people to look into what vaccines still contain Thimerosal. Some do. The flu ones, esp.

The information I posted from the Autism Society is useful stuff to know.

My children are grown - so I'm not choosing to vaccinate them or not. I'm personally not taking the flu vaccine - but I wasn't anyway - before the Thimerosal issue became prominent.

I'm not confused.

You might be.