Is infiltration of Iraqi Security forces an epidemic?

[Goldmund]

I had never heard anything about this before. And then in the last 3 days -- 6 Marine snipers dead yesterday due to infiltration. The 14 dead today also due to inflitrators. The NYT journalist in Basra abducted and killed by infiltrators in the Iraqi police.

So, not only are they far from being combat-ready, but they are thoroughly compromised.

Those of you who think that we can't pull out from Iraq -- that "we own this mess and now have to fix it" -- what do you say now? Does this anyhow alter your opinions?

[leftofthedial]

1. I bet there are as many infiltrators as not

AND I bet those who are not active insurgents have little or no loyalty to the occupying Murkan parasites.

[Goldmund]

2. I agree entirely.

[The Magistrate]

3. If Course It Is, Mr. Goldmund

The loyalty of native contingents fielded by a puppet government in a colonial enterprise is always suspect. Such forces are always and everywhere shot through with rebels....

"Can't nobody here play this game?"

[Puzzler]

4. Yes...

... recent events (and evidence) seem to indicate that this is true.

-P

[MadHound]

5. Last time we had this kind of infiltration

Was in Vietnam. Huge problem throughout the war in Saigon.

Gee, and people say that history doesn't repeat itself:eyes:

[bryant69]

6. I don't know

I'm torn, honestly. I've been torn for a long time, but generally came down on the fix it side of the fence. This obviously causes more doubt as to whether fixing Iraq is even possible.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Goldmund]

8. Thanks for the honest answer!

:hi:

[bryant69]

9. I will say this though

The question for me as always been a factual one that we don't know the answer too. Is it possible to repair the damage we and Saddam have done to Iraq? If it is than we should stay and fix it. If it isn't than we should get out.

[Goldmund]

10. It's a very good question,

and I suspect not an uncommon one -- I myself have also used that same question to arrive to the conclusion that I have. If we disagree on whether we should stay in Iraq or go, it isn't because we disagree ideologically, but because we disagree about the answer to this question.

[skypilot]

7. Even though...

...no one in the Bush administration has talked about it, that I'm aware of, I'm pretty sure that they and the military have worried about this for some time. Over a year ago some military official was being interviewed on the news about the slow pace at which Iraqi security forces were being armed. His response: "We don't trust them"

I'd bet they've seen this coming for a while now but they just want to put on the happy face and concentrate on all the "positive things happening in Iraq".

[Larkspur]

11. As I've said before the only ones who prepared for post-invasion Iraq

was the Baath Party and Saddam's elite troops.

I've read that as Bush revved up the war in the US, Saddam and the Baath Party leaders knew that they could not defeat our military, so they studied Viet Cong tactics and prepared to fight the US with guerrilla tactics. They probably had been studying them before Bush revved up the war in the US and may have been doing so under the Clinton Admin. Like our Pentagon, Saddam's elite troops aren't idiots and probably had been developing strategies to counter a possible American invasion.

So far, their plan is working because Rummy planned an Iraq invasion on the cheap, and Rummy believed convicted embezzler Ahmad Chalibi who told him that Iraqis would welcome US troops with flowers.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. That tarbaby is sure sticky.

But, "we are making progress". Kind of like a guy in quicksand measuring "progress" by how much deeper he sinks.

[Goldmund]

13. LOL

Good analogy.

[SnowGoose]

14. Minor quibble about Steven Vincent (your point is still valid)

First off, I agree with your point that infiltration is clearly rampant, and the US military/political establishment is impotent to counter it.

It's not clear, however, that Steven Vincent was actually abducted by infiltrators - while the men had uniforms, and their SUV had "Police" across the side, from what I heard on the BBC this morning, it did not have other official markings (such as government plates). They may have been infiltrators, or simply impostors.

That having been said, there are other reports of significant infiltration into the police in the area, so it very well could have been those infiltrators, but we just don't know for sure.

As I said - minor quibble.

[Goldmund]

15. Thanks for the clarification

:hi: