Now just wait a darned second!

[whosinpower]

This goes to the evolution vs intelligent design debate.

Evolution is just theory - we have no proof that organisms evolve.....THAT IS BUNK! We DO SO! In the medical field - there are super bugs that have EVOLVED to become immune to most of our strongest antibiotics.

There are weeds in the agricultural field that have EVOLVED to become resistant to herbicides. Does a plant have an auto-immune system? I don't think so. So, naturally, it stands to reason that its ever increasing resistance to herbicides is done on the genetic level. I could be wrong - so if there is anyone out there to refute me - please go for it.

[bryant69]

1. Well that's true

Another good argument in favor of teaching evolution in the schools.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Moochy]

2. The stupider they are the less they'll be able to decode the lies

You better respect my right to hold fantasy as fact! It's my "religious freedom" to beleive nonsense!!

America is the country where you have the right to beleive anything but the right to know nothing. and you better respect my rights to be willfully ignorant of reality. Heck you "reality based" people are always trying to confuse us with so-called facts. :sarcasm:

[craychek]

3. Well...

in a sense bacterial resistance isn't true evolution. The bacteria are able to pass resistances around via a plasmid(a circular gene). Once the bacteria is no longer exposed to the drug it will drop the plasmid in favor of one that gives it more of an advantage. It's basic DNA structure remains intact.

On a side note, bacterial resistances can be combated by cycling antibiotics, they do that in europe I believe and it does make the antibotics more effective and generates less resistant strains.

If I've errored in this post at some point please reply, I'm good with science but I haven't touched the details of bacterial plasmids in quite a while.


Edit: forgot to add another example of evolution for you.

I can remember the species of birds involved, but I do remember the rest of the story though.

This one species of bird started out in alaska near the artic. A group of them, for one reason or another decided to start migrating aroudn the artic rim. This process took decades, perhapes more and many generations of this particular species of bird. At the end of their journey the group ended up back in Alaska, and after all that time had passed, they found that they could no longer mate with the original group. This migrating group had evolved into an new species that was incompatable with the original species.

That is what is called evolution.


Also when religous people normally think of evolution they think of a cat evolving into a dog or something like that.

[Mabus]

4. Well, there's the Flying Spaghetti Monster explanation

Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power. ...What these people don’t understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease. http://www.venganza.org/

So, according to FSM and its adherents, it only looks like the plants have evolved to become resistent to herbicides. and/or FSM decided it was time for the plants to develop resistences.


Sorry, this rebuttal is the best I can come with.

{whisper: I agree with you.}

[BlueEyedSon]

8. You obviously have been Touched By His Noodly Appendage

[whosinpower]

10. LOL

Too funny!

[Mabus]

11. More than once,

if you know what I mean.

Showed the website to a friend of mine last night and he converted. We live in Kansas and he's a retired high school science teacher. He just called me half an hour ago to tell me he's ordering shirts for everyone for Christmas.

:rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Tell Rex hi

:hi:

[Mabus]

26. I will.

Actually I just talked to him about half an hour ago. I'll tell next time I see/talk to him. P.S. He's talking about coming to KC for the meetup!

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. That's great!

Has he seen this site?

http://www.lefthook.org/Politics/Miller060305.html

[Mabus]

29. If he hasn't, he will

He comes to town several times a week. I'll get him to stop by and show it to him. He's technologically impaired - he likes to pretend he isn't but. . . :eyes:

[SheepyMcSheepster]

18. hahaha

awesome!

[mtnester]

20. OK, does anyone know how much water it takes to ruin a keyboard?

:rofl:

[spuddonna]

30. RAmen! I believe!

Verily, verily I say until thee, if we do not honor the teaching of the FSM, we will indeed see more global warming...

All these ID people need to get a grip and realize that we need to teach FSMism right next to evolution!

May you all be touched by His Noodly Appendage...

[emcguffie]

5. Actually, they've figured out how --

-- those smart little buggies give each other the genetic material for resistance... One gets it, through mutation, I guess, and he GIVES IT TO HIS SIBLINGS, FRIENDS, NEIBHBORS, and then they pass it along....

It doesn't have to go down the generations, it spreads laterally.

[carnie_sf]

6. It kills me

when these idiots say "Just a theory". What htey don't realize is that a theory is a hypothesis with a great deal of supporting factual evidence. But then I guess most fundies can't spell hypothesis

[BlueEyedSon]

9. I refer to it as the "Law of Evolution", like the "Law of Gravity."

[DrJackson]

7. The creationites are splitting hairs

The point you have posed is perfectly valid. However, I have seen the creationite/ID crowd resort to admitting that micro-evolution (i.e. evolution within a species) is real and acceptable to their ideology. I suppose by doing this they are attempting to give their movement more legitimacy within the scientific community. I have learned through many frustrating, infuriating, look-at-my-bald-spot-because-I-pulled-out-my-hair-in-disgust "debates" that no amount of scientific reasoning will work with these people.

[mtnester]

22. Is that what really gave you the bald spot?

Or did God create you to have one when he made you?





Or is it REALLY from this:
:banghead:

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Gravity is just a theory too

Stupid people who listen to fundie preachers are showing how ignorant they are of Science terminology. They all need to look up THEORY in the dictionary.

a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary.htm

[K-W]

15. Im nitpicking, but actually niether are theories.

Evolution and gravity are both phenomena. The theory of evolution is the theory, not evolution itself.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. I stand corrected

Aren't you glad I don't teach high school Science?

[EstimatedProphet]

13. This gets to the problem with the word "theory"

"Theory" means different things to different people.

In science, a theory means that there is a well-defined set of rules which explain specific behaviors in nature, and have been tested, reviewed, criticized, and finally accepted because all evidence points toward the theory being true.

In creation science, it means Bubba had a brain fart.

[K-W]

14. ID'rs will concede changes within a species as genetic evolution.

They will even concede some minor degrees of speciation. Like Zebras and Horses coming from the same God Pony.

But thier argument is that the underlying framework of organisms, the DNA, cells, and the incredible diversity of life cannot be explained through natural causes and prove the existance of some form of intelligent entity that created them.

[ihaveaquestion]

16. I don't think plants have an auto-immune system.

Disclaimer: I took one Plant Science course in college and certainly don't consider myself an expert. That said, I got a little something out of my college edumacation.

Plants have highly developed defense systems to use against their enemies - insects, fungi and such. Oak trees, for example, develop toxic chemicals that circulate throughout their system to defend against pests. I don't know whether the chemicals are just distasteful to pests or if they repel them or even kill them, but I do remember that they develop different chemicals to deal with different pests and that they share their "chemical knowledge" with other trees in their vicinity to help out the whole forest. This is not an evolutionary change in that the mature trees develop the chemical defenses and change them as needed rather than the defense being a genetic adaptation that the offspring would have and the parent wouldn't.

Your examples are good examples of evolutionary adaptations and I'm sure there have been several studies of fruit flies that demonstrate this as well.

Unfortunately, this doesn't mean that Evolution isn't a "theory," because everything in science is a theory. Gravity is a theory, too! The problem for the non-scientifically oriented is one of semantics. Common usage of the word "theory" means something that's "less than factual," while the scientific usage of the word means something which already has established "truths," or "proofs," associated with it(such as your examples). This is opposed to a "hypothesis" which is basically a scientific "theory" with no established "proofs" as yet.

Edumacation is good for sumthin', but give up on the freepers - if they don't want to learn, that's not our fault.

[warrens]

19. Misunderstanding of the word theory

It means a coherent, reproducible explanation of a series of events. It is a theory that gravity exists. It is accepted unless and until a better, more reproducible theory comes along. It's the theory of relativity, not the fact of relativity.

Anything that is not observable and reproducible is not a theory. It's a guess, a suspicion, an idea, but it's not a theory.

[Puzzler]

21. Good points!

And I'm sure that none of the Fundies will be in line for this fall's flu shots. Last year's shots should be just as effective, right?

Oh, but that kind of evolution is different... right? Wrong!!!


-P

[DaveJ]

23. ID is anti-science and anti-fact

So you can't use science or fact to disprove ID.

[OrlandoGator]

25. They don't know the difference between a theory and a hypothesis.

n/t

[mcctatas]

28. But my fundie father-in-law provided me with irrefutable proof of

creationism...the banana. It is the perfectly designed food for human beings, comes in it's own portable wrapper, perfectly designed to fit in the human hand...etc, etc, ad naseum. Of course he can't eat bananas because they "don't agree" with him...Does that mean he's not human??:silly: