No One Wants To Admit It. But, Clinton's Blow Job DID Cost Us ALL!

[DistressedAmerican]

Choose a point in time and you can track forward from that date and look at trends. I understand that the Republican revolution started decades ago. But, I want to point out something most liberals will NEVER discuss.

Clinton's blowjob has a lot to do with us being in the mess we are in right now. How you ask?

Simple. I believe that if the guy had kept it in his pants, that his reputation would not have been destroyed. In destroying his own credibility for a little on the side, he also tarnished all those in his administration, including Al Gore.

Gore realized this and did his best to distance himself from Clinton during the 2000 race. Some argue that was a mistake. They may well be right. Regardless the decision tracks back to Clinton's trousers.

With the race as close as it was, ANY advantage or disadvantage to a candidate may have made the difference.

Had Gore's reputation not been harmed by Clinton, He very likely would have won. Had the repugs not been able to use all those "Family Values" and "Restoring Dignity To The White House" slogans to rally their uptight, repug base, they may well have lost.

I'll admit fully that the blame for the past four and a half year's actions must rest with Bush. But, I can not escape the notion that It was Clinton's wang that put Bush there in the first place.

Clinton did more damage with his BJ than most are willing to admit...

Thoughts? Flames? Opinions?

JUST FOR THE RECORD, BUSH HAD A JOB TO DO AND HE HAS BEEN A MISERABLE FAILURE!

[whistle]

1. No comment

[quiet.american]

2. No argument, here. n/t

[kenny blankenship]

3. Now, be FAIR!

it was a lot more than just one blowjob.

[DistressedAmerican]

5. Fair Enough. Let's Call It The Monica Affair!

[KurtNYC]

4. Nope

It really didn't matter what Clinton did or didn't do. The GOP pursued stupid and baseless events and the compliant media presented them all as impeachable scandals by using the -gate suffix.

[DistressedAmerican]

9. Sorry, But The BJ Occured. Stupid? Yes. Baseless? No.

He opened the door a crack and they kicked it in on him.

[KurtNYC]

45. JFK by most accounts slept with Marilyn Monroe

Why didn't that destroy JFK's legacy? Bush Sr reportedly had a mistress in England - why didn't that destroy him or his legacy?

* had a male prostitute placed into the press core - Why didn't that do any damage to his rep?

[Mandate My Ass]

25. Thank you for stating the obvious

For six years they put him under the microscope and all they could come up with is a consensual affair with a ditzy girl who had a record of chasing unattainable men. Presidential affairs had always been off-limits until it became obvious they had nothing else to hang on Bill. Meanwhile, the Bush scandals, in number and scope, pile up with hardly a peep except for a few like Conyers et al. And the rank and file dems definitely do not have his back.

Next up: We really are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here. :eyes:

[H5N1]

35. True

[htuttle]

6. I've always been more angry about what he did to the welfare system

...but I'd agree the BJ didn't help any.

[4 t 4]

18. Wait........

Didn't Gore win??

[DistressedAmerican]

44. Who's Sitting In The Office? That Guy Is The Winner. We Are The Losers!

[DURHAM D]

7. Too simple. eom

[Eloriel]

8. I can't imagine anything more unimportant to discuss

right now. It's a real shame you can't.

[DistressedAmerican]

Feel FreeTo Look For My Many Other Threads. They Are Easy To Find.

If you find the discussion so pointless, why reply in the first place. Does that make any sense?

[MikeNY]

10. I disagree

We live in such a sexually naive and pluritan society, but we look upon violence and allow it to be commonplace throughout our media, and to our children.

It is acceptable to watch someone be killed or executed on television or in a game, or through the wars we now wage, but when someone engages in a sexual act it is absolutely forbidden and frowned upon.

You may argue that Clinton's act was immoral and violated the bond of trust he had with the public and his wife, but it is nothing compared to the genocide that has been commited under this and previous Republican administrations. (Although it should be stated that Clinton also enforced the sanctions against Iraq quite strongly and was urged to commit military strikes by the neo-conservatives constantly. They probably threatened him with his life we all know the Republicans probably killed Kennedy)

[DistressedAmerican]

21. Where Did I Ever Compare The Two? I Said One Led To The Other.

There is nothing mutually exclusive about Clinton's BJ getting Bush the job because our society in general are so uptight sexually and the fact that none seem to give a damn about the violence.

That is certainly a flaw in society. But, It does not refute any of my original points.

[MikeNY]

36. Clinton's success meant they had to dig up something on him

I hear what you are saying but they had to find a scandal to tarnish his image. Look at how much money was spent on investigating Clinton in comparison to the budget given to the 9/11 commission to investigate the most heinous attacks on American soil of all time, a commission that the President of the United States did not even support until he was politically pressured to do so.(which I consider to be a total white-wash the likes of which have not been seen since the Warren Commission).. What an outrage and outright disservice to our democracy, wouldn't you agree?

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, the democrats are not entirely morally bankrupt and have not employed these types of unethical "hound-dog" tactics on Bush, who clearly does deserve that level of investigation and public humiliation based on the corrupt and unconstitutional actions of this administration.
Had the same standard of the rule of law been applied on the Bush administration this man would be out of a job by now. He has spent over a year on vacation during one of the most difficult and challenging times in this nation's history

[gratuitous]

11. Clinton didn't do progressives any favors by getting a hummer

But take a look at the cornucopia of "scandals" ginned up by the Mighty Republican Wurlitzer: the replacement of the White House Travel Office employees; Vince Foster's suicide; Al Gore's fundraising; Bill Clinton's successful record of fighting terrorists and terrorism; the "trashing" of the White House; and on. And on. And on.

Clinton getting a blow job was not good for liberal politics, without a doubt. But the Repressive Right would have latched onto anything to get their greedy, bloody hands back on the levers of power in this country, and their record proves that they'll say anything, do anything to acoomplish that end.

[porphyrian]

12. He's also responsible for the DLC...

...and the move of the Democratic Party to the right, which the republicans have benefitted from ever since.

[emulatorloo]

13. you forgot Karl Rove - 'Al Gore Serial Liar'

- al gore says he invented the internet
- al gore says he inspired love story
- al gore says he invented the love canal (sorry fuzzy on that one)

then there was

- earthtones
- al gore is stiff and boring
- al gore sighs too much

etc etc etc

[Seabiscuit]

42. All those stories about Gore were planted in the media by KKKarl Rove

The first three were outright lies by Rove, the last three were PR pieces Rove cooked up. The media played right into Rove's hands.

[DistressedAmerican]

55. And I Still think With All Of That, Nothing Hurt Him Like The BJ.

[Missy M]

14. Actually, Gore won the popular vote in 2000 and in my opinion and...

many others, he won Florida. I believe the American people are scared of terrorism and bush has played that hand since 9/11. Many still believe he will keep them safe.

[HardWorkingDem]

15. Agree 100 percent....

You are going to get flamed a bit here, but I agree with you 100 percent.

Myself, I have a love/hate thing with the Clintons. They are both egocentric people and sometimes I think they have hurt the Dem party more than they have helped it.

And in your flaming, people will have forgotten the mood of the country during the 2000 race and how Gore didn't have much choice but to give himself a political bath. (Though some argument could be made that Gore did himself in during the debates and by Joementum's terrible showing in his own debate. However, I don't know how much debates are worth anymore after seeing Kerry mop the floor with Bush and still come out the loser.)

[skypilot]

16. That thought has always been...

...in the back of my mind. I don't believe he should have been impeached for any of it but it sure as hell didn't do us any good. And on top of it he posed for Esquire magazine shortly after the Lewinsky thing was more or less over and he posed in such a way as too suggest that he was flaunting the whole mess right in our faces. Does anyone remember that Esquire cover? Shot from a low angle with him sitting on a stool looking down at the photographer with his legs spread open and a big smile on his face. It really ticked me off.

[Bethany Rockafella]

30. Here it is. Smile! :-)

[DistressedAmerican]

37. OK, That Is Some Sick Stuff There Maynard! I Do Not Recall That AT ALL!

I would have been furious!

It is one think to resist what you think is an unwarranted intrusion.

It is another thing all together to have a picture taken that says little more than "America Can Suck It Too!"

That is really messed up!

[Bethany Rockafella]

40. I loved it.

I remember the freepers were in a tizzy over it. It's like Clinton was telling the right wingers... "haha you didn't get me!"

[skypilot]

41. That's the one!!!

I didn't remember it 100% accurately. The angle isn't as low as I thought and he's grinning rather than smiling but still...

[Tim4319]

17. The GOP was attacking Clinton before he took office.

Unfortunately, the BJ was just the straw that broke the camels back!

[BOSSHOG]

19. Clinton's reputation has not

been destroyed in my household; nor has Al Gore's. Right wing religiously insane hypocrites who are well trained like a little poodle taught to sit before it gets a treat, were simply "outraged" at the President's behavior. With each passing day of bush in the white house, Big Dog's reputation is looking better and better in the eyes of those who only share their political views with themselves. Conservatives in this country will lose a helluva lot more by what bush is doing and wants the world to know about then what liberals may have lost by a personal matter Clinton would rather we have not known about.

Fuck the family values crowd. They are the number one domestic enemy of our constitution today. I'll take Bill Clinton any day and twice on Sunday's for anyone the theocrats would endorse.

[Hardrada]

20. I think Carter caused our downfall

by wearing a sweater on TV and telling us to turn down our thermostats. TURN DOWN OUR THERMOSTATS!!!

[Bethany Rockafella]

22. I would only agree that it may cost us republican voters from time to time

And I love that graphic. Funny!

[ThomWV]

23. Nonsense

It was the 1996 Congress that changed us and it was Reagan that was the precursor of the 1996 Congress. It would not have mattered what Clinton did or did not do, that man was going to be hunted like an animal by the filth that is in there now no matter what he did.

[annabanana]

24. They would have found or manufactured some other

"inexcusable" transgression to persecute him with..

[DistressedAmerican]

43. I Don't Buy This Logic. They Tried Many Things. They DID NOT Stick

because there was no truth to them.

They failed over and over to make anything stick. It took something that ACTUALLY happened combined with the American Puritanism to make something stick.

Please tell me one other thing that could have stuck like that?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. The cover up was worse than the deed.

If he had come right out and said, "My private life is my concern." and, refused to answer any more questions on that basis, it would have blown over (no pun intended). Instead, he tried to lie his way out of it.

I wish he had resigned.

[femrap]

57. Yes....finally mentioned is Clinton's LIE....

Just how long did it take before he confessed...not until he heard about the 'dress.' Remember? How long did nothing get done in this country because Clinton thought he could lie his way out of the mess?

I hadn't seen that Esquire cover....shit. I think he was being rather degrading to women as well....and has his wedding ring on....

The Clintons are 'players.' I don't think they have integrity....NAFTA? Welfare reform? Deals with Big Biz? Clinton was Repug Lite....alll southern dems are.

I always thought it would have been a good idea for Clinton to resign and let Al Gore become the incumbent...he could have won then. But no, Clinton's ego was just too damn big for that.

He hurt the Democrat Party....women are the backbone of the Dems and when he cheated on his wife, he spit in the face of many married women.....

thx for this thread....I have been wanting to get that off my beautiful bosom! LOL.

[formerrepuke]

27. I believe that Gore's campaign suffered for it: BJ by association.

The whole episode only confirmed what many RWers wanted to believe about Clinton- and Democrats in general.

[nyhuskyfan]

28. It didn't help, but...

I think the blame belongs with the perpetual RW witch-hunt over Whitewater and the hiring of Ken Starr (when Fiske had already found no wrongdoing). They spent 70 million to find something, and while it would have certainly been nice if Clinton had kept it in his pants, it's difficult for me to deflect my anger away from the people who were dead set on bringing down a presidency -- putting party before country. Unlie Watergate, which was an investigation about something specific, Whitewater was always just an investigation for the sake of an investigation, looking for dirt.

Any person that has grown to be that powerful is going to have some skeletons in their closet. Or a blue dress.

Had the Monica thing never come to light, the angry right would have just kept on the attack looking for something else. If Gore had won, maybe they woud have successfully pinned 9/11 on the Democrats and how THAT was our downfall (you can argue that President Gore may have listened to the warnings and stopped 9/11, but we'll never know).

I'd like to think the day will come 50 years from now when America looks back at this era and can't believe that an affair was such a big deal, especially during times of unprecedented peace and prosperity. Taken further, hopefully they will talk about the era of the power-hungry right wing that was dead-set on starting an illegal war and profiting from it, so they had to bring the president down to get their people in power.

[napi21]

29. If it hadn't been Monica, it would have been something else!

Think back....

From the minute he started to campaign for Pres. the Pubs were out to get him! They tried White Water, they tried stollen FBI files, they tried accusing him of murdering Ron Brown, they tried to get Hillary for hiding something from her law practice years ago. NOTHING panned out! Sure he was stupid with his excapades with Monica, and he trusted a young dumb girl not to brag to her friends. But I'm positive if it hadn't been Monica, they would have kept digging until they found something, or made something up that they could make stick.

One think that whole Clinton mess did do for us is to cause several Pubs to either resign from or not accept promotions in Congress! Remember it was 2 or 3 people who were supposed to be Speaker before they finally decided on Hastert? The Pubs opened the door to all this BS, but they now have to live with their own activities too.

[DistressedAmerican]

32. Two Went Down Which Was Great. Livingston Outed By Larry Flynt

or was it bob Guccione. Can't remember. Livingston went from top of the world to the where is he now file pretty fucking fast.

I loved every minute.

[second edition]

31. Clinton drug the party down with him on moral issues and honesty.

It wasn't his intention, I'm sure, to do this, but his questionable dealings and indiscretions took a toll on our party. Both Gore and Kerry had to fight against the mis-perception of our party as immoral and dishonest. IMO!

[jillan]

33. NO - I have to disagree

The rethugs did everything in their power to get Clinton.
This is what stuck.

Kinda like we are doing to *, but he deserves it. For what he has done is a zillion times worse than anything Clinton did.

This is what I think started it all:

January 26, 1998

The Honorable William J. Clinton
President of the United States
Washington, DC

Dear Mr. President:

We are writing you because we are convinced that current American policy toward Iraq is not succeeding, and that we may soon face a threat in the Middle East more serious than any we have known since the end of the Cold War. In your upcoming State of the Union Address, you have an opportunity to chart a clear and determined course for meeting this threat. We urge you to seize that opportunity, and to enunciate a new strategy that would secure the interests of the U.S. and our friends and allies around the world. That strategy should aim, above all, at the removal of Saddam Hussein’s regime from power. We stand ready to offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor.

The policy of “containment” of Saddam Hussein has been steadily eroding over the past several months. As recent events have demonstrated, we can no longer depend on our partners in the Gulf War coalition to continue to uphold the sanctions or to punish Saddam when he blocks or evades UN inspections. Our ability to ensure that Saddam Hussein is not producing weapons of mass destruction, therefore, has substantially diminished. Even if full inspections were eventually to resume, which now seems highly unlikely, experience has shown that it is difficult if not impossible to monitor Iraq’s chemical and biological weapons production. The lengthy period during which the inspectors will have been unable to enter many Iraqi facilities has made it even less likely that they will be able to uncover all of Saddam’s secrets. As a result, in the not-too-distant future we will be unable to determine with any reasonable level of confidence whether Iraq does or does not possess such weapons.
.......

We urge you to articulate this aim, and to turn your Administration's attention to implementing a strategy for removing Saddam's regime from power. This will require a full complement of diplomatic, political and military efforts. Although we are fully aware of the dangers and difficulties in implementing this policy, we believe the dangers of failing to do so are far greater. We believe the U.S. has the authority under existing UN resolutions to take the necessary steps, including military steps, to protect our vital interests in the Gulf. In any case, American policy cannot continue to be crippled by a misguided insistence on unanimity in the UN Security Council.

We urge you to act decisively. If you act now to end the threat of weapons of mass destruction against the U.S. or its allies, you will be acting in the most fundamental national security interests of the country. If we accept a course of weakness and drift, we put our interests and our future at risk.

Sincerely,

Elliott Abrams Richard L. Armitage William J. Bennett

Jeffrey Bergner John Bolton Paula Dobriansky

Francis Fukuyama Robert Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad

William Kristol Richard Perle Peter W. Rodman

Donald Rumsfeld William Schneider, Jr. Vin Weber

Paul Wolfowitz R. James Woolsey Robert B. Zoellick

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

[aka-chmeee]

34. Just another viewpoint...

I still think Monica was(is) a repuke employee:crazy:

[dbonds]

38. It was a blow to us, but...

They had the media, if it wasn't the BJ it would have been something else. They were determined to find anything they could on him. In the end they had to set him up with a fake lawsuit from Paula Jones to get him under oath to ask him about Monica, then what they had him on was perjury. I think if that had not occured then it would have been something else - it always was going to be something.

But I disagree that is what got us into this current mess, it started back with Bush 1 and Reagan. Maybe even before that with the disenfranchised Nixon cronies manipulating things. They blamed Nixons resignation on bad press - so they started then to find ways to control it.

[jarnocan]

39. I definately agree

It became a focus, a distraction and an excuse for non-cooperation by the GOP. It cost US much more than the money wasted on it.
Perhaps they were more able to put together their plans to steal the elctions because of it.
It was a major disruption to a govenrment that was functioning fairly well otherwise. It didn't have to be, it should never have been a major issue. Now we know the GOP had a professional prostitute (G/G) ROVING the Whitehouse and likely being roved within. But there are so many worse things going on- who cares?

If Gore had not lost the election, he would have remained very focused on terrorism as a threat. He would have followed through on Richard Clarke's information and plans. Sure something still may have happend eventually but I really beleive 911 may have been averted and that we would be living in a much different world.
We would be working on so many other global concerns in a cooperative manor. It is mind boggling to think about.

The most costly BJ in history.

[Payback Time]

49. I agree, too

I have had many women tell me they were disgusted with him and would not vote for Gore because of it. Clinton compounded it by lying. It was just the final straw and caused things to gel in an anti-Democratic position. It's pretty obvious by now that many family type, religious people (I'm not talking evangelical) saw the profanity and nudity become part of our society and more & more prevalent on TV and in movies. And who programs TV and movies -- the Democrats! For many adults this was no problem but for people with kids, scared of internet porography and worse, it's kind of understandable. I'm sure Janet Jackson revealing her breast during the Superbowl was also blamed on the Dems and their liberalness.

Clinton was doing too well, things were really good in the country and he had escaped having anything pinned on him to date. He got sloppy and complacent. And then he lied...

[ComerPerro]

46. They have been destroying and attacking him since 1992

[DistressedAmerican]

50. Name One Thing That Did Real Damage Outside Of Monica. Nothing Stuck.

They tried everything they could find. It was the DNA that stuck.

What else do you all think they could have taken him out with?

I keep hearing the "Witchhunt" hypothesis. But, no one can point to anything in the first term that stuck to him. They were trying and failing until Bill unzipped.

[StayOutTheBushes]

53. Perhaps a look at the 1994 elections is in order for you. The

biggest calamity that ever hit this nation.

[sintax]

47. Bullshit

Stop with the politics of personality.

Clinton was no big deal.
What costs "US" is the fact that we are too spoiled and lazy to get off our derrieres and bring about the changes we want to see happen.

Not to mention we're always looking for "FIXES" or looking for some "FIGURE" to save us from THE MACHINE which is grinding us down every day.

Sure the powers that be are, including the Clintonites, enormous obstacles, but it is too easy to point the finger at blowjobs and bushes.

We got to do it ourselves- No Clinton or Gore (Certainly not Kerry, Clark etc.) are going to do it.

[DistressedAmerican]

51. "Clinton was no big deal" Is A Nice Assertion. Proves Nothing.

"What costs "US" is the fact that we are too spoiled and lazy to get off our derrieres and bring about the changes we want to see happen."

What cost us is that they DID get off their asses and make the changes they wanted to see happen occur.

It is not about any specific personaliity as the voting public's perceptions of the candidates. Based on fact or myth.

This was based on fact.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

48. What blowjob?

Clinton got a blowjob?

[Cleita]

52. No there would have been something else if it wasn't the BJ.

The neo-cons were out to get Clinton for whatever they could dig up in his skeleton closet. Remember they went after Hillary first and the Whitewater affair. It was from there that they uncovered his sexual pecadilloes, Jennifer Flowers, Paula Jones and the prize Monica. Even if Monicagate hadn't been presented to them on a silver platter by Linda Tripp, they would have dug around like the pigs they are until they uprooted something they could harrass and impeach him with.

Considering their subsequent track record of smearing Gore, Dean and Kerry, any Democrat who has a chance of gaining the White House is going to have everything thrown at them until something sticks. These people are rotten to the core and so drunk with power and the wealth they are stealing that the only way to stop them is to get them tried for any and all things we can thrown at them.

I wish I knew more about the law, to know where to go about finding a means of doing this. I hope some liberal lawyers will try to find a way.

[DistressedAmerican]

54. WHAT? What Stuck Before The Dress? What Do You Think Would Have After?

They were trying and trying to bring the guy down. The failed over and over. Until he gave them something to latch on to (so to speak).

Please tell me what else might have done that kind of damage?

[ArkDem]

56. During Clinton's administration, we lost:

- 48 seats in the House
- 8 seats in the Senate
- 11 governorships
- 1,254 state legislative seats
- Control of 9 legislatures
In addition 439 elected Democrats joined the Republican Party while only three Republican officeholders went the other way.
While Democrats had been losing state legislative seats on the state level for 25 years, the loss during the Clinton years was striking. In 1992, the Democrats controlled 17 more state legislatures than the Republicans. After November 2000, the Republicans controlled one more than the Democrats. It was the first time since 1954 that the GOP controlled more state legislatures than the Democrats (they tied in 1968). Among other things, this gave the Republicans more control over redistricting.
In fact, no Democratic president since the 19th century suffered such an electoral disintegration of his party as did Clinton.

[union_maid]

58. yup, he let us down

I was furious at him for it. Do I care that he got a BJ? No, of course not. That's a personal thing between him and..whomever. But he knew they were gunning for him. He knew that his sex life was already a vulnerable area. He knew that the future of the Democratic party was his responsibility. He asked for that responsibilty, fought for it and won it. He didn't have the self control to safeguard it.

Of course, that said, it was pretty cool the way he was able to turn it around on them, at least at the time. I just think that he let us down badly and there's really no excuse for it.

[Moderator]

59. locking...

This is flamebait.