So when Bush sends home the ground troops, right before the 2006 elections

[Zinfandel]

as many liberals and conservatives insist he will do.

Bush will claim victory, all will cheer! He brought the troops home and brought democracy to Iraq. (Don't worry the media will be singing the praises for Bush, everyday, 24/7)

And then we will be known as whiners because we'll know and point out, there's really no democracy in Iraq, people are still getting killed and there's still troops at the US bases in Iraq.

But when Bush pulls out and brings home the ground troops next year, right before the 2006 elections, the 14 to 17 US military bases will be completed along and in Iraq's oil region to protect the oil companies flow.

Bush will undoubtedly regain much support, as we (liberal, progressives & democrats) are basing most of all of our hope for political wins & gains in congress in the 2006 elections on the Iraq war, The lies of WMD, Downing Street Memo's, etc...

The troops will be home it all will become (unfortunately) moot talking points, that's what will be sounding on the talk radio airwaves all across America...Sour grapes for the democrats, will be the preceived picture.

"It was a tough war and many America serviceman died noble-ly for the cause...But it was worth it, and America & the world, is now safer for it"...Which absolutely will be said and repeated over and over again, and the MSM will again trumpet Bush and the republicans as sucessful.

If & when the above occurs the republicans will keep control of the congress, because the democrats are betting everything on the Iraq war in 2006, to win congressional seats.

Bush, Cheney, Rove, and all the criminals, KNOW, they must keep a republican majority in congress in the 2006 elections.

They know they will avoid impeachment or even war crimes if the republicans hold congress. and NOTHING will assure it better than to bring the bulk of the troops home.

And to top it off...It will give BushCo new vigor and reason to invade Iran, because, it will be said, Bush brought the troops home from Iraq, We have base there now to launch an attack against Iran, we can create a democracy in Iran, just like we did in Iraq, the world will be safer for it.

Now, there are many here at DU who are frightened at this thought of Bush bringing the troops home next year right before the elections and they'll say it won't make a difference. (It will, the media will go wild with an announcement like that, just what they have been waiting for). The same ones will say Bush will never do it, he's too committed to war. (by bringing the troops home, it will assure of even more wars. and more importnt at the moment, keeping a republican majority in congress next year.

It's the best republican move possible and they would be incredibly stupid not to do it. They WILL still have their "never ending wars", for profit in Afghanistan...and they believe next in Iran (and now that they have Bolton installed to fuck up diplomacy at the UN to help assue it).

Bring home the troops before the 2006 elections is a win, win situation for the republicans, don't look for them to pass it up...no matter how you feel about them, the republican are NOT stupid, save their spokesman puppet, who be told exactly what and how to say it.

The republicans know they have nothing else to run on in 2006, they will againt deflat the progresive movement in one swoop.

What happens then to the democrats in 2006, whe the republicans call the democrats bluff?

[shoelace414]

1. call it what it is

cut and run.

[bryant69]

2. Yeah because hypocricy sells

I mean that's the way the Republicans act right, constantly making hypocritical statements. So if it works for them, why can't it work for us?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Tactical Progressive]

36. Why can't it work for us?

Because the media will call 'hypocrisy' on Democrats in a millisecond, that's why.

American 'journalism' is a propaganda machine for the establishment. Maybe you didn't get that when they painted Vietnam vet-hero Kerry as a lying coward traitor, and rose up in unison against any charge of Bush's military desertion.

[bryant69]

39. Yeah I got it

I do appreciate your condescending attitude though.

But if we are going to turn into republicans in the pursuit of power, than thank you very much, but i'm not interested.

[Tactical Progressive]

40. Not condescending at all

just a little sarcastic phrasing on the Pollyanish notion that we can use the same tactics as Republicans with the right-wing media being in full control of the message. Not that I'm against hypocrisy - Republicans have cured me of any fair-fight integrity - just that it doesn't work the same in both directions.

Explain this though: "But if we are going to turn into republicans in the pursuit of power, than thank you very much, but i'm not interested." You lobby for using Republican tactics; I say they won't work; you then take a sanctimonious tone towards me about not being interested in becoming like Republicans.

[bryant69]

42. This isn't hard to understand.

I was being sarcastic - It would be hypocritical of us to call on Bush to pull the troops home immediately and then when he does so to slam him for cutting and running.

[FreedomAngel82]

3. Exactly!

This past Sunday afternoon I saw on a scroll on CNN that there were talks of pulling out from the Pentagon in the spring of 2006. Remember that going into Iraq was for policey too. Bush will for sure have some sort of stunt and show the Iraqi's cherring us leaving and everything and the media here will proclaim Bush a successful war president. Something Richard Nixon nor Lyndon Johnson was all the while the opposite happening in Iraq.

[KeepItReal]

4. Yeah, major troop reductions are gonna happen. Ready or not for Iraqis

GOP has got to take Iraq off the table for '06 elections. For no other reason than to save their own asses.

The insurgents/rebels/terrorists are gonna have a field day with the Iraqis left holding the bag, security-wise.

[whistle]

5. Ahaaa yes, but he has not said a thing about what he will do....

...with the sixteen (16) new military bases that he has built in Iraq, each of which will require 5,000 to 12,000 American military personnel to maintain them. That's between 80,000 and 110,000 permanent troops stationed in Iraq, who will be fixed targets just like any garrison troop installation. Need to hammer that fact between now and elections.

[catmandu57]

6. Well now keep in mind

that this has been a misadventure and giant clusterfuck from the very beginning, also keep in mind that the world is a very different place and that these neoconvicts have stunningly failed ro adapt to and evolve in.
They may very well attempt some type of drawdown, but in the longrun, shortrun, medium run, everything they've done has fucked up and back fired on them.
The only reason they're in power now, is that there are competent people running the voting machines for these incomps.
It's a long time between now and next November, I tink there may well be some help getting ourselves shut of these criminally insane bastards, that few have seen.

[LaPera]

7. One small point, our elections here in CA --- (Musclehead Arnold)

are just under ten months away (June 6th 2006). If the troop withdraw does come to pass, I hope Arnold doesn't ride the republican wave to re-election in California.

With all the hype would accompany the troops coming home, it would make it even easier to steal more elections through electronic voting machines.

[catmandu57]

10. From everything I've heard about ahnold

and CA he'll be lucky to make it to November, but you're there so you should know better than I.

[Johonny]

8. If voters

are too stupid to see the truth then they deserve the elected officials they get.

[LaPera]

9. That's very true ---So count on it!

As you can see with all three branches of government firmly in republican hands.

[dogday]

11. One thing he can't send home will

be the dead soldiers whose lives were lost and the wounded soldiers whose lives are changed forever. He can't give that back and people will remember that....

[Zinfandel]

13. Many people will remember them...

And many more will be coached by the media to believe, these are fallen hero's of democracy, no less than the fallen soldiers of WW II and any other American war for freedom. And that Bush feels the families pain and Bush is a strong leader for standing his ground.

Sick as it sounds, there are many people who WANT to believe this, the republicans know this and they know how very well the media can tap into and exploit it in their favor.

That's why they are in complete one party fascist power in this country and won't relinquish it in our lifetime.

But we must fight on...what else is there or worth fighting for?

[dogday]

15. The Fallen Heroes Of Democracy

died so Iraq could put Islam in their constitution. Islam will be the country's religion. Already Democracy has died over there and will continue to go on a downward slope. Woman's rights will be null, that is not democracy.... They can't paint a picture of Democracy when this is going on...

[Zinfandel]

17. Do you really believe...

the average uninformed voter (which there are tens of millions in this country) is going to get into the semantics of who won the war and if there is technically a democracy or not in Iraq?

When Bush and all the republicans and Limbaugh and Hannity, and newspapers and the five television news companies, magazines, talk radio, etc. etc. as they keep pounding away hour after hour, day after day, that the troops are indeed home and democracy has come to Iraq, and that sure there will be some fighting and some dying but that's to be expected...most of the troops are now home and safe thank to president Bush...He was right!!!

Remember this will be played to perfection just for the 2006 elections to hold onto congress after the elections are over, they won't give a shit what happens until two years later in 2008...and on to new strategy...

AND ON AND ON IT GOES...

[dogday]

19. The Vote was almost split down the middle

Hackett made a good showing in a largely Republican districts and received what I would say was a good share of votes that originally voted for Bush in Nov 04 64%.

So I do think there will be more people that don't care for this war now. It is obvious no matter what the press or anyone says, we already had have the population and we have recruited a few since then.

[Zinfandel]

22. Yes, because the war is going on, that's why it's was so close...

The war has increasingly become more unpopular, even among republicans...

But all that would change drastically if Bush brought home the troops, it would then, again, give millions of republicans and moderates reason to support his or her republican representative in congress, not to mention that incumbents are very difficult to beat as it it, and I'm sure, the republican owned electronic voting machines will help the republicans in the areas they need a little help in).

That's what I'm talking about, With a troop withdraw before the 2006 elections and the media praising it to no end, as so many say is and will be the strategy behind the republicans holding onto the majority in congress in 2006.

[dogday]

24. It could go like you say or it could backfire

things don't alway go as planned. When these soldiers come home and the stories come out of their mouths, it is not going to be pretty and the war will become even more unpopular....

It could go as you say, but it could reverse itself as well....

[FreeStateDemocrat]

28. Repuke spin machine sells bullshit as chocolate pudding and

the well-informed electorate eats it up and yells for more.

[dogday]

31. Well it used to be that way

The election with Hackett showed Democrats that people are not eating it up, but spitting it out. Have you ever had anyone lie to you? Once you know they lie to you, do you believe everything they say or do you question it? People are questioning now, don't sell them short, they see and feel things for themselves....

[bunny planet]

12. I will be happy to have the troops come home, even if it is something

that on the surface will help the Republicans. Hopefully, Fitzgerald can bring indictments this year, well before the 2006 elections. Almost 2000 US soldiers dead for a lie, not sure whether bringing home the rest, if the BFEE are on trial for lying us into the war in the first place, will save their asses. Hopefully they will still be held accountable for the misery, murder, and sheer hell they have caused for so many people.

[wli]

14. they don't need to care, they'll just rig the elections again

[Zinfandel]

16. Well, we can absolutely count on that too...

But the withdraw will gurantee a republican majority in congress and an excuse to invade Iran and their oil fields. Since they will able to point to leaving Iraq as proof they will leave when 'democracy is achieved in Iran" (meaning once they have firm control of the oil field in Iran there and US bases in place & built.

Plus the number one reason Bush has to withdraw the troops, is fear of a democratic congress, and impeachment and other crimes that will be brought against BushCo...

So they can't count on republican owned electronic voting machines alone to do the job.

[Horse with no Name]

18. The soldiers won't be at war

They will be peacekeepers assigned to Iraq.

[Disturbed]

20. Around 60K Troops and 20K Mercs will stay in Iraq.

How that can be spun into a grand positive by the Bush Regime and their complicit Corp Media remains to be seen.

[KeepItReal]

30. Out of sight (permanent bases), out of mind (ignorant ass media)....

That's my theory.

[matcom]

21. 100% SPOT ON

just said this to my father last weekend. almost word for word

we have $1 bet on it.

:thumbsup:

[barb162]

23. Things are going so badly in Iraq right now and the last few months

that I would hesitate to comment on troop pullout. Everything seems to hinge on the Iraqis being trained. With terrorists and insurgents infiltrating the police and military, I think it will be hard for the new government to stay in power.

[Zinfandel]

25. Bush saving his ass is more important than anything going on in Iraq.

And a troop pull-out just before the elections will ensure the republicans will keep the majority...and give him validity with a war with Iran (what they have been just iching for), lots of oil reserves in Iran.

After the 2006 elections are over what the fuck will Bush care, shit, he just might bring the troops back into Iraq...Who knows, but with withdraw his ass will be saved, from a democrat majority in congress, which could bring on impeachment or worse...

In 2008, well the republicans will have a new strategy to run on...they always do...

[barb162]

26. The Bush rearend is safe in any case, no matter what happens in Iraq

The Democrats won't be able to pick up enough seats in Congress to start any investigations or impeachment or anything else. That man is basically untouchable right now and will be till the end of his term. The GOP will still use values and other crap issues in 2006 and 2008 and they will still be putting the Democrats on defense just as they did in 2000, 2002 and 2004. Democrats in leadership aren't showing too many signs of learning anything from the last few elections.

[matcom]

27. kick

:kick:

[barb162]

32. are you kicking the thread or are you kicking me

[matcom]

33. the thread

sorry

[barb162]

35. no problema

[thebigidea]

29. about as likely as finding WMD in Iraq.

remember when that was held over our heads? "Oh, he's going to find the WMD right before the election."

[barb162]

34. about as likely as finding WMD under the Oval Office desk

Remember monkeyboy looking for it like it was a big joke

[Disturbed]

37. Predicting anything past a day from now is..

not possible. The Iraq situation is such a bloody mess that it is not possible to predict what may happen next. Did anyone here predict that Iraq would have a military alliance with Iran? Now the latest: Kurdish Peshmerga (sp) 33K troops will join Iraq Army. These are tough fighters. The balance of power may change with the Kurds officially joining forces with the Iraqi Army.

[barb162]

41. Actually I thought the Shiites of Iraq would connect with Iran

well before the war started. The Kurdish item you mention will get interesting, I bet.

[Tactical Progressive]

38. You've got it exactly right

The media will create an orgasm of BushCo steadfastness and democracy-creation, surrounded by returning troops.

The Republicans throughout the country who have been keeping their nasty little heads down are only looking for some hook, real or imagined, to hang their success hat on. What are you going to say, that we don't want the troops home? That they died for lies? For Bush's corporate oil and military cabals?

America doesn't care about anything but tax cuts for themselves. The rest they could truly and deeply not give a shit about. All they need is for the mainstream propaganda machine to tell them that they are the good guys for supporting Republicanism, and the media wants nothing more than to do just that.

[raccoon]

43. Great post, Zinfandel, and this discussion kicks butt.

"It will give BushCo new vigor and reason to invade Iran, because, it will be said, Bush brought the troops home from Iraq"

I'm not sure that Americans will be ready to buy another war. Lots of Americans have learned now that our servicemen/women actually get killed in war. That Iraq War II wasn't over in just a few weeks.

Having said that, in the last few years, I've repeatedly been amazed at the stupidity and head-up-assedness of many American people, who keep cheering the Chimp, and probably still would even if it were conclusively proven that he was into necrophilia, pedophilia, and bestiality.

[mnmoderatedem]

44. I think you might be a tad pessimistic

of course republicans have no choice for an Iraq pullout in a face saving move for the 2006 elections. If our troops remain there and continue to die and the situation remains as bad as it is, they lose big in 2006. But a pullout could lead to chaos and civil war (a VERY real possibility) and we could leave Iraq in worse shape than it was before we went in (as well as not finding those dad gum WMDs), in which case even the most ardent war supporter will finally get the picture that invading Iraq wa a terrible idea, and the Dems stand to win big in 2006.

Sadly it will take that much carnage for people to finally see the light.