Charges dismissed against Jim March of Black Box Voting

[Liberty Belle]

San Diego 8/4/05 -- Charges have been dropped against activist Jim March of Black Box Voting, although the D.A. retains the right to refile in the future.

In an interview after learning charges had been dropped, Jim told me that he plans to file a lawsuit against County election officials for violating his civil right to view an election and for denying access to public records. (Contrary to what someone posted here last week, Jim is NOT seeking contributions for any legal fund.)He may also sue for false arrest. Jim wants to establish the principle that citizens are guaranteed a right to observe votes being counted--and that officials who obstruct that right will be held accountable.

Jim was arrested and charged with a felony count of interfering with an election official after entering a secure area to view the central tabulator during San Diego's mayoral election last week. Although the Registrar had promised that citizens would be allowed to watch the vote counting, the tabulator was placed eight feet behind glass and requests to move it closer were denied.

Jim lost his job as a lobbyist after being charged with a felony. He spent a night in jail and was forced to fly down to San Diego again for the arraignment, which was cancelled at the last minute.

While here, he discovered that the Diebold GEMS central tabulator was hooked up to the Internet -- making the election illegal under California law. The Registrar's office also refused requests to make the database accessible on CD Roms. That data could have revealed a failure to change user logs between users--another legal violation.

Activists wearing orange arm bands rallied at the courthouse in support of Jim, who stood up for democracy and San Diegans rights to have our votes counted. He later addressed a DFA meeting and spoke with Congressman Bob Filner about the importance of delaying HAVA implementation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. what is this, we are posturing?

Damn there are days

[Liberty Belle]

2. Guess the officials didn't know what to do when they realized

the wild-eyed radical activist they'd expected in court turned out to be a Republican sporting a Bush-Cheney sticker on his motorcycle helmet.

Way too embarrassing for them to admit that voting fraud should be a bipartisan concern, I supposed.

Plus the activist community here was making its voices heard, loud and clear.

[EST]

3. The drip-drip-drip is officially turning to a roar--

[loudsue]

4. Yep! At least it is in California! I wish it was an epidemic!

This country needs to have a lot more of us involved in this issue, and I hope that the word starts getting into even the tiniest corners of the country.

:kick:

[EST]

25. Wow!

I have read the thread that developed since we posted. Being hopelessly naive (which isn't always such a bad thing,) I didn't immediately connect the names and dots on this deal. This is wonderful if true, a sad comment on the average integrity in America if not.
How sad that the fires of hope and enthusiasm can be so easily fanned or damped and that there are, as in any other human endeavor, opportunists who think nothing of preying on innocents of unimpeachable character.
When any organization has the responsibility for the safety and security of human beings, such as NASA or the military, any mistakes that are made, except for a few notable exceptions, are hauled out on public display and examined in great detail. Any exceptions to this, always of the CYA-cover your butt variety, are mercilessly harassed by the press and citizens, as well as the other staff of such organizations, until the responsible party relents and the appropriate changes are made to improve safety.
When, especially with obvious danger threatening, an incompetent bunch of self-righteous hooligans tries to hide its miscalculations by denying any examination or challenge, as the fascists-in-charge are doing, the general jumpiness of the citizenry leaves us open to all sorts of chicanery and manipulation. I am so thankful for the stout hearted among us whose toughness of mind demands proof and whose rigor keeps me more grounded.
Strangely, that makes me feel a little safer.

[bobbieinok]

5. he didn't get to observe the counting so the purpose was served, right?

arrests are great.....you stop what you don't like; cause people lots of problems......then drop charges so you don't have to pay for the costs of a trial

hasn't this been happening a lot in the last 5 years?......people at W rallies, etc??????

[mogster]

6. Do you have a link?

Where is the story?

Remember; this man is very close to Bev Harris and whenever Bev Harris is involved I want every detail checked for accuracy -- in fact, I want to count my fingers, toes and check if my wallet is still intact.

So, where is the link to confirm your claims of what this gun nut March have discovered?

[merwin]

7. It's accurate.

[mogster]

9. That's not the point

This is the LBN - the story needs to be confirmed.

That said, I'm inclined to call bullshit just on the people involved.

Here's an earlier post from this board from a DU'er that perfectly describes my attitude - I'll link to it when the link to this story appears:

"He is probably the biggest asshole I have ever had the displeasure of reading about. Have you ever in your life seen anyone with a bigger sense of self-importance? I truly love his comparison of himself to ROSA PARKS or MLK Jr! Yes, a 6'4" 300lb white freeper gun lobbyist walking through a security door after announcing he was going to cause a scene of civil disobedience for publicity is really brave and sooo much like Mrs. Parks refusing to give up her seat to a white man on a bus during the racial turmoil of the 50s or the fight for civil rights led by Dr. King that followed. The gall there is so amazing that I feel it must have been a suggestion from Bev.

I can not believe anyone would support his asinine behavior here, especially since this idiot is a FREEPER. I am GLAD that when a stupid freeper pushed his way into an off-limits area during an election he was arrested, I'm sure if he hadn't been arrested BBV would be claiming security was lax and suing someone for that. I totally agree with merh that if BBV had really WANTED to do something they would have brought a LAWYER along instead of going for the drama.

Jim March is shilling for Bev, creating the publicity that she has been unable to generate for herself with her string of stories based on other people's work. This latest statement is the same kind of phony tough talk he demonstrated during the qui tam fiasco as well as several other lawsuits he has threatened to start. How many times did we read how Diebold was going to be shut down, or they were "going into discovery" so submit your questions now, or ole' Jim was going to be a millionaire...it all turned out to be crap and he has accomplished NOTHING for voting reform (especially in his own state of CA where he ensured that Diebold could not be tried again and the machines are still used).

I recently discovered that he has also threatened to sue Comedy Central before in a hilarious series of posts after he unwittingly appeared on a show making fun of him. That gun nut site is a gold mine of information about this civil rights "hero" straight from the idiot freeper's own mouth.
gun nut site: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=82620

The whiny "comedy central laughed at me" thing from his own site: http://www.equalccw.com/thedebateshowfiasco.html "

[Montauk6]

32. "I am pro-rights (on gun issues). " That High Road's a hoot!!!

Forget the Constitution, it's alllll about the 2nd Amendment.

[Trajan]

59. Im more or less PRO Regulation ....

But here we agree: The High Road is a hoot ....

[mogster]

8. Here's some background info

*The Bev Harris story for newbies and those who have forgotten*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x340188

*My Opinion on Bev Harris & BBV (Warning: Harsh Language) (from a voting activist)*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=211132

*The answer to how much money Bev Harris really made thanks to Randi Rhodes*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3246549&mesg_id=3246549

[merwin]

11. PLEASE, let's not get into the Bev bashing here. That's not what this

thread is about. The thread is about the illegal arrest of someone who happens to work for her.

Just because Bev is a nutcase doesn't mean that everyone who works/worked for her is/was.

[mogster]

12. I don't think so

> The thread is about the illegal arrest of someone who happens to work for her.

Yes, apparently. It is also unconfirmed information. Do anyone 'happen' to work for Bev Harris? I think he'll be a part of her schemes then.

> Just because Bev is a nutcase doesn't mean that everyone who works/worked for her is/was.

Not everyone. Andy Stephenson wasn't. But he is dead, and now Bev + bots are cropping up again here at the DU -- inbetween their posting at FR.

Here's a quote by Bev:

"You may be very surprised at who's in our corner on this issue. In fact, George Bush ordered my book, had it overnighted.

Thanks.

Bev"

;-)

[Kelvin Mace]

18. No.

This thread is aboutr Jim March trying to play the hero, when in fact the whole point of his endeavor was to get arrested so he could file another lawsuit so he can claim more money.

Mr. March has made it plain, BY HIS OWN WORDS, that he is in this for the money.

What other proof do you need that March & Harris are bad news?

[Zhade]

35. Some will NEVER see the truth about those two scumbags.

NT!

[Vinnie From Indy]

38. Just so long as "nutcase" is included in the thread discussing Bev.

I have no problem.

[Trajan]

58. Obvious misdirection .....

Fair voting processes are the issue ... not Bev Harris, or any other person she may have shared the universe with .... non sequitur ....

You seem committed to avoiding and ignoring the obvious lack of rigor to lawful election practices by focusing instead on personailty issues .... an old trick here at DU ....

The story about March being denied access to the tabulator is a week old or more .... look it up ...

Even then, I agree that LBN threads should have links, holding to the rigor of forum rules ....

[ConsAreLiars]

10. Jim March is a hero to any who believe that we the people have

the right to see what happens to our votes once they are cast. He has the courage of his convictions and the chutzpah to put himself on the front lines. Those simple-minded ideologues who believe that all who stand for democracy must have perfect "liberal" credentials (and who reject him because of his gun rights stand) are fools at best and tools of the "divide and conquer" strategists at worst. His participation in the DFA event (see http://www.democracyforamerica.com/ ) is evidence that he is not as naive or gullible as those who ask us to attack him for one reason or another.

Go Jim! You are one of us (most DUers and all who value human rights over corporate power), whether you like it or not.

(edit out extraneous word)

[symbolman]

13. NO HE ISN'T ONE OF US IMHO

I Don't associate with any of those people, not Harris or This Right Winger, and I don't want anyone to create the impression even obliquely that I do.

Andy was one of us. And I created a memorial for him as a flash. Mostly also because he got so thoroughly SCREWED by these same people.

I wouldn't piss on March if he was on fire. There's a REASON BBV and Harris got kicked off this site.

Read the posts, memorize them, and don't speak for me please.

[ConsAreLiars]

15. I knew Andy and admired him and helped him in several ways, and I

regard you as one of my heroes as well. I've read those posts. And I don't claim to "speak for you," although I've often spoken up for you. That said, I guess I use a broader definition of "us" than you are using, and both definitions have their value. In the case of getting votes counted honestly, I don't think using the narrow definition does much more than reduce the odds of success. You probably know all this, but if not, look into the distinction between "united front" and "popular front."

[mogster]

16. Well, if that is true

Where do you draw the line?

> That said, I guess I use a broader definition of "us" than you are using, and both definitions have their value.

How broad is that definition, and what does it imply? ;-)
How much controversy has to be tied to the different people involved before you say This is it, I'm not buying it anymore?
When is enough enough?
Jim March has admitted to talking to journalists before his stunt, he's a gun crazy with an attitude, out for personal gain and publicity and HOW ON EARTH was he able to discover all those things in that short time?

This thread is ridiculous - no confirmed story, just a Bev Harris/Jim March love-fest

[WHAT]

43. sometimes it's who's tying the controversy...

"How much controversy has to be tied to the different people involved before..."

and WHY.

I'm not talking about March.

[mogster]

69. Oh, you must mean Bev, then?

;-)

[Kelvin Mace]

19. Bev Harris & Jim March are not interested in voting reform

They are interested in publicity and MONEY!

Bev Harris has attacked just about EVERY anti-BBV professional out there from Avi Rubin to Rebecca Mercuri. She helped hound a man to death by consorting with Freepers and encouraging them to engage in the vilest of character assassination. The proof is plain and I'll pass on the links if you need proof.

Bev Harris is a woman who has publicly stated she deserves the Pulitzer Prize for her work (work she stole from other people). Jim March has publicly gloated that Diebold would make him rich. Bev PUBLICLY accused Andy of lying about his condition on FREE REPUBLIC. Bev also swore she would never "soil" her hands with Qui Tam money, attacked other activists and accused them of filing Qui Tam lawsuits, while she and March secretly filed a Qui Tam suit in California.

If these are our allies, we are doomed.

[WHAT]

72. ***sigh***

I don't think I'm the only one who knows both sides of the argument...

Sigh**....

[Catrina]

64. Maybe I'm naive

but I like my heroes to have integrity. Like many others before the election, I knew nothing about the personalities involved in BBV. I took the trouble to learn a little about them, and what I learned caused me to come to the conclusion that either Jim March and Bev Harris intended to damage the election fraud movement, or they simply hooked onto to it because they wanted to make money. Both appear to me to be con artists. I don't know them personally, and don't want to.

I read that Jim March and Bev Harris filed a Qui Tam lawsuit which they claimed they would never do. They then settled the suit, claiming they were forced to do so, made money from it, and let Diebold get away with not having to go into discovery.

You would almost think Diebold hired them. The fact that Jim March is going around getting himself arrested means NOTHING to me. Con artists will do stuff like this when their funds are running low. It doesn't have much to do with courage or conviction.

I have done a search on him, and he seems to make a living from law suits. As far as I could tell, he has no job, or profession. I could be wrong of course. But whenever there is as much to worry about as there is with these two people, my instincts tell me to avoid them.

There are other people involved in the election fraud movement who do not raise the kind of questions these two do.

[troubleinwinter]

20. He is NOT one of "us". He calls DUers "commies".

He is a freeper and a registered Republican who wants to become a millionare through 'activism for profit'.




Here he is in his own words:
_______________________________________

Bev and I remain convinced there's a veritable feeding frenzy of Qui Tams quietly sneaking up on Diebold and possibly other vendors (ES&S and Sequoia are definately vulnerable)...ours is just the first one to go public.

So anyways...the profit potential here is just crazy. If the various Sheriffs and PD Chiefs think I've been a nuisance while running on a shoestring, wait'll they get a load o' me and a couple million bucks to toss around.
___________________________________________________

Bev and I are due to split a cut of the winnings (a "bounty"). It'll vary between "bigtime fun money" each to "retirement-level" loot, depending on how it all shakes out.
____________________________________________

A reference to DU:

A big part: the various "commies" over there are choking over the idea of profit getting wrapped up in activism.

It's genuinely hilarious.

Me?

I'm a gun nut, remember? Call me a "bounty hunter" and I'll say: yup!

Silly commies.
___________________________________________

"This is about money now - a case of the capitalist system at work," said March,
___________________________________________

Yes, there's a possibility that this "something else" will leave Bev and I millionaires.
___________________________________________

I'm a professional gun rights activist in CALIFORNIA, if I didn't keep my sense of humor in this commie hell-hole I'da gone nuts ages ago.

I ain't gonna tame down, I ain't gonna sheeple up, I ain't gonna meekly promise to turn over all "evil profits" to "the good of all as the DU community sees it". If that ends up making me rich, so be it.
___________________________________________

In other words, say I get...I dunno, we'll use $5mil as a ballpark round number.
____________________________________________

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90961

[benburch]

21. As if we needed any more proof of Bev Harris' perfidy...

Here it is.

She's a Freeper through and through.

[Trajan]

60. Harris and March's personailty do not matter ....

Nor do their political affiliations: IF they are demanding fair election systems .... and working towards that goal ....

They are ...

IF they can expose and STOP election fraud through BBV, then I dont care how much money they make ....

Nuff said ...

[Catrina]

65. Yes, they do matter

It is because of their personalities that the election fraud issue has gotten a bad name. Even those in the media who initially were interested in covering it, won't touch it anymore. After dealing with these people, they think we are all as crazy as they are.

If Bev Harris and Jim March had been trying to destoy the effort to ensure clean elections, they couldn't have done a better job. People I know who initially were interested, now consider it a dead issue, and maybe just fabricated by a bunch of wackos.

The last I heard of Bev Harris she on Freerepublic claiming that Democrats were her focus. I guess maybe she thought Freepers would donate to her 'cause'. I hope they do, they deserve each other.

And, btw, what exactly has Bev Harris succeeded in doing to ensure fair elections? John Conyers has done way more, imo. As have others. What fraud has she exposed? She got a lot of money from a lot of people and produced ZERO, after claiming that she had 'evidence' of fraud. Where is it?

[benburch]

66. Indeed

Some have even alleged that she is in the pay of the GOP to do JUST that.

I'm not sure I buy that, but she clearly is having that effect.

[Trajan]

70. You dawdle in character attacks ....

While the factual story of a man denied lawful access to a tabulator slides under the collective visual range ......

YOU just now did that .....

YOU just became the problem ....

STOP focusing on Bev Harris, whom you have admitted has done NOTHING in this field, and FOCUS ON THE ISSUE ..... FRAUDULENT VOTING SYSTEMS ...

Do you NOT see that talking about Bev and Jim as personalities ROBS US of discussion about the real issues ? ...

Hello ?

[Catrina]

71. I agree with you completely

that was my point. You say:

Do you NOT see that talking about Bev and Jim as personalities ROBS US of discussion about the real issues ?

Of course I do. That's what will always happen whenever these people are involved in the issue. At least half of those reading about them will always distrust their motives.

You can argue that even they are untrustworthy, we shouldn't let that bother us so long as they get attention for the issue. But you yourself have just put your finger on why they will never do any good for election fraud (nor have they so far to my knowledge, whereas Rep. Conyers has)

I do not know them at all, eg, and never contributed to BBV. But because of all the controversy surrounding them, and having read what people I do trust have to say about them, I don't trust them. As soon as their names are mentioned, a red flag goes up for me and apparently for way too many others who are aware that they are controversial, at the very least.

Even if while profiting for themsleves, they stumble on something, they are the wrong people to represent my concerns.

You, otoh, are not acknowledging that the best people to represent any issue will never be people whose characters are questionable.

I'll try to explain. Let's say they uncover something of importance. How easy will it be for Diebold or others attempting to squash information on election fraud, to shatter their claims, by simply pointing to the various controversies surrouding them, thus losing the support of people like me?

Integrity and a clean record are vital for those who take a leadership position in any movement. If the leaders have something to hide, or are of questionable integrity, the entire movement will be easily discredited. Can't you see that?

I hardly think I am the problem. I did not earn the questionable reputation Bev Harris seems to have ~ I merely did some research and made a decision that there are too many questions surrounding this woman for me to feel confident about her motives.

Sorry if it bothers you that I want assurances that the people who claim to represent my interests, are people who are not as divisive as she is. You can't change that, and neither can I. It is what it is.

I'll work with people whose integrity is not in question by so many people, if you don't mind. There are plenty of them ~

And, once again, what did Jim March achieve by getting himself arrested and can someone supply proof of what he claimed, that the machines were hooked up to the Internet? That certainly would be very important information. Can we get a link to this?

[ohio_liberal]

22. He calls DUers "commies"

While they were accepting our fucking money. Let's not forget that.

edited for clarity

[troubleinwinter]

23. One of her ardent followers

on her board refered to donations from DUers as "chump change".

[ohio_liberal]

24. I wonder how anyone would know?

Bev Harris certainly isn't telling the truth about how much money they took in.

[Kelvin Mace]

30. Actually, it Bev herself

who referred to it as chump change. Sadly, that one got purged, though the follow up that quotes her is still up on her site.

Bev claimed that she had gotten "chump change" as a result of the push on Randi Rhodes, citing a figure of $23,000. In reality it was $176,000 raised in five hours.

Her entire take was over a million before people started asking questions. In any case, even if it was $23K, that is hardly "chump change.

We still have seen no public accounting of the books.

[troubleinwinter]

33. I have no idea when we will see any accounting

All I know is that BBV.org is not listed on the Washington Secretary of State website as a non-profit, after a year.

Bev has never made public what their fiscal accounting year is, even after so many questions about their fundraising and accounting.

To my mind, I am not convinced of the "non partisan" status, since she posted these comments on FreeRepublic, regarding the WA state Gregoire(D)/Rossi(R) court recount issues:

.................................................

Had the Rossi litigation team filed a request for the King County memory cards (we suggested strongly to the Rossi team that they avail themselves of this option), I believe the litigation would have come out differently.

...we did notify the Rossi team of the problems we were finding with the optical scan, showing how it could be easily fraudulently manipulated, and where to find the evidence.
.................................................

Some people who wanted John Kerry to win were disappointed that Black Box Voting, Inc., didn't get involved on behalf of their candidate.
.................................................

Seemingly, she sees nothing partisan about "getting involved on behalf of" a republican candidate.

[troubleinwinter]

34. partisan?

"....as a 501c(3) nonprofit, we are prohibited by law from participating in recounts or any action to benefit or harm any candidate. We therefore must focus on election procedure, not election recounts or contests. It is, quite simply, a violation of federal law for a 501c(3) nonprofit to engage in partisan politics." Bev Harris, 1/9/05

So why was Bev 'strongly suggesting to republican Rossi's team what options they should avail themselves of' during a recount contest??? And notifying Rossi, but seemingly not Gregoire of problems?

[ohio_liberal]

36. How would you find info?

Is it possible for an individual to call the SoS's office to find out the status? Because her website still says it's a 501(c)(3). I can only come up with three scenarios--1) they had 501(c)(3) status and lost it, 2) the SoS website isn't accurate, 3) they never were a 501(c)(3).

And good find on the "partisan" stuff. :thumbsup:

[troubleinwinter]

37. State of Washington Secretary of State

Charitable Organizations
801 Capitol Way South
P.O. Box 40234
Olympia, WA 98504-0234

Phone [phone]
email [e-mail]

[ohio_liberal]

39. Ok, so I called

and I was led to this:

http://www.secstate.wa.gov/corps/search_detail.aspx?name=BLACK+BOX+VOTING&ubi=602403081

edit to add:

Ok, the state of washington doesn't do the 501 (c)(3) designation. Only the IRS does that. In washington state, they are just listed as a non-profit corporation, not a charitable organization. The woman on the phone says that they are "political", whatever that means. If one were to search for information on the 501(c)(3) status, we must contact the IRS.

PPS>

That website is kept absolutely up-to-date. Notice that their license expired 6/30/05.

And yes, I did pretty much sound like an idiot on the phone. :D

[ohio_liberal]

40. And I have more...

Black Box Voting, Renton WA, is listed with the IRS as a public charity with a 50% deductibility limitation. Their charter (or whatever it's called) is good until December 2008.

[Stephanie]

41. An interested journalist needs to take a serious look at BBV.org

There still has been no disclosure on that fundraising - it's been more than six months. I'd like to see a journalist out of Seattle take a long hard look at Harris's organization. Why aren't they registered as a non-profit? That's hard to believe.

[ohio_liberal]

42. BBV is a registered non-profit

Registerd non-profit with WA state, IRS shows them as a charitable organization. Now whether their WA license has been paid this year, that is uncertain.

[troubleinwinter]

44. Filing dates

Incorporated 6/04, registered as non-profit with IRS 8/04.

The question is what their fiscal accounting year is. Tax filing (and copies available) would be due by the 15th day of the 5th month after the organization's accounting period ends.

[ohio_liberal]

45. So february 2006 at the latest

How does one go about getting a peek?

[troubleinwinter]

46. Copies must be furnished

(by law) to anyone making a request in writing to the exempt organization.

Or

I have just filled out (to be sent directly to IRS) an IRS form 4506-A, requesting a copy of the 501(c)(3) application, and any form 990 tax filings.

Who knows.... if their fiscal year is Dec., there would be a return on file.

I tried to ask BBV what the fiscal year is, but seemingly, they have blocked my email. !!??

[ohio_liberal]

47. Please, when you get the documents

You must share :)

I really can't imagine why they'd block your email. Want me to try? :evilgrin:

[ohio_liberal]

48. Nevermind the first part

I found the form online. I think I'll send one in too :)

[troubleinwinter]

49. If you can get an answer

from BBV regarding when their fiscal year is, it would be interesting!!!

[ohio_liberal]

50. Well, ya know, don't hold your breath

I'm sure someone has already alerted the Bev to this thread. She doesn't really seem like the *sharing* sort in any case. :D

[Stevepol]

51. I personally don't care who makes money as long as Diebold goes down.

If this guy wants to make a jillion $, more power to him. If he can establish the principle that vote counting in elections MUST BE TRANSPARENT, I am happy for him.

The problem is this: the Democrats don't seem to want to stand and fight when they see obvious fraud. Max Cleland did not even whimper when Diebold stole his Senate seat. Neither did Roy Barnes when Diebold his governorship in the same election in GA. Kerry conceded w/o even a whimper, much less a bang. And the list keeps lengthening. When will the Democrats demand audits and recounts at every election? When will they have lawyers demanding, as Jim March did, to see the vote count? When are they going to stop acting like beaten puppies even before the fight begins?

I welcome anybody with the guts to stand up against the Diebolds of this country who have stolen our democracy.

I would personally contribute money to Jim March's personal bank acct if I thought he really needed it to succeed. Let the Republicans make money; let the Zen Baptists make money; let anybody make money. If it saves democracy, that's a miniscule price to pay.

[troubleinwinter]

52. What makes you think this kind of stunt will help?

Please see post #29 below "He should have had an attorney with him, ready to file pleadings in a court of law asking for a TRO or injunction stopping the count until they complied with the letter of the law."

March, himself, on BBV says he intends to sue for civil damages. He also says that his fellow inmates were surprised that he was happy to be in jail. Of course he was happy. This way, he can go for money.... smooth elections do NOT afford him such opportunity.

And in the proccess, he makes elections reform activists look like crackpots who are too hot-headed to approach it in a legal manner, and alientates elections officials who are the very people we must win over to our way of thinking.

He is not helping anyone but himself and Bev.

[Kelvin Mace]

54. So,

it's OK to destroy people's reputation, literally hound people to death and make money in a manner which makes solving the voting issue more difficult so long as it APPEARS to stop Diebold?

Jim March did NOTHING to stop Diebold. If he really intended to stop them he would have brought a lawyer with him rather than stage a publicity stunt.

Jim March got himself arrested, so now he will sue. We have learned NOTHING about the vote count in San Diego, but Jim March is gonna get rich.

How does this help us again?

[nicknameless]

14. This is major!

Reposting for emphasis:

While here, he discovered that the Diebold GEMS central tabulator was hooked up to the Internet -- making the election illegal under California law. The Registrar's office also refused requests to make the database accessible on CD Roms. That data could have revealed a failure to change user logs between users--another legal violation.

[mogster]

17. Odd things

From the KOs post/BBV.ORG site:

"During the tallying of the election, the Diebold computer was positioned too far away for citizens to read the screen. Citizens could not watch error messages, or even perceive significant anomalies or malfunctions. Unable to see the screen, March went into the office where the tabulator was housed. Two deputies followed him and escorted him out."

From Liberty Belle's post:

"Jim was arrested and charged with a felony count of interfering with an election official after entering a secure area to view the central tabulator during San Diego's mayoral election last week. Although the Registrar had promised that citizens would be allowed to watch the vote counting, the tabulator was placed eight feet behind glass and requests to move it closer were denied.

(snip)

While here, he discovered that the Diebold GEMS central tabulator was hooked up to the Internet -- making the election illegal under California law. The Registrar's office also refused requests to make the database accessible on CD Roms. That data could have revealed a failure to change user logs between users--another legal violation."

So:
He goes into the office, are followed by two deputies, and are then escorted out.
How did he find out--in that short time-space--that the central tabulator was hooked up to the internet? Please, don't give me that--I've been working with computers/internet for nearly ten years.
Did it have a note on it saying 'Online to Internet'?

This just doesn't ring true at all.

To check wether a machine is online you have to access it's software, and he didn't have the time for that--if we're to believe the public records about this incident--not to metion Bev's own record at BBV.

That's whats the matter with these people. They're phoney, and grab attention from other serious investigators.

[donsu]

26. well I applaud him for trying to expose the criminals who "fix" our votes

to favor themselves. more power to him.

[mogster]

27. How can you say that?

Did you see this post?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4266418&mesg_id=4267568

He isn't trying to expose anybody but himself - for money.

What the voting cause needs are credibility, to get the people to believe in the work done and the facts revealed. Neither Bev Harris or Jim March adds to that credibility, they're like bulls in a china shop.

At best.

[Trajan]

61. You are carefully avoiding the fact ...

That election officials are being exposed here ...

Why ? .. is this intentional ?

This is the SAME battle we fought here last year ... why ?

The Bev/March battle is DONE ...

When YOU get out there and expose fraudulent voting systems then yout trivial complaints about Harris/March will carry weight: until then: your muddying the waters with fallacious appeals to irrelevent issues ....

[Catrina]

67. What did he accomplish?

Is there a link to the information given in the OP? This sounds like someone is repeating something Jim March told them. Since he hasn't been too reliable in the past, I would prefer to see some documentation of this. How do we know election officials are being exposed? How were they exposed? Was the election stopped and the machines checked?

I agree with you about one thing. The Bev/March battle IS done. I just hope they don't take the whole issue down with them.

[mogster]

68. And you're carefully avoiding the facts

In troubleinwinter's post ;-)

To a degree that I have problems taking you seriously, unless you have a stake in Bev's schemes. How much info must be provided before people see the nature of these people?

> This is the SAME battle we fought here last year ... why ?
The Bev/March battle is DONE ...

Yes. Bev was expelled from this place as a result. If you study the threads from that time, you'll see that I too believed in Bev.
But I agree. The battle is done, she blew it, so why are we having this discussion?

> When YOU get out there and expose fraudulent voting systems then yout trivial complaints about Harris/March will carry weight: until then: your muddying the waters with fallacious appeals to irrelevent issues ....

Well, you would be surprised at what is going on, and at which issues are now being addressed - and what people do that you don't see.

Go ahead. Believe in Bev/March if you must. If you're truly interested in the repair of your democracy you'll regret it when your blinds are pulled.

Just as mine were, some time ago ;-)

[merh]

29. With all due respect, he had an idea of what he was going to find.

He had his bail money ready to post the bond. He should have had an attorney with him, ready to file pleadings in a court of law asking for a TRO or injunction stopping the count until they complied with the letter of the law. (He could afford bail but he didn't have funds to pay any of his 6 lawyer friends?) Now, all we have is his word that he couldn't see the screen (were his eyes open, what is his vision like?) and that there was some type of internet connection. As the poster above points out, how in the world was he able to see that (if he couldn't see the counting through the window and/or if he stepped into through the closed door to the counting room and was immediately escorted out by deputies and arrested?

These folks are all show and no true, practical action. They have had no results for their months of work, they have made available documents from only 10 precincts in one county, though they have claimed to have collected tens of thousands of pages of documents nationwide (further claiming that the documens "are going online for open source public auditing.")

[Kelvin Mace]

31. He was looking for a pretext to file a lawsuit

he was NOT looking to safeguard our vote.

[troubleinwinter]

53. He said that his fellow inmates

in jail were surprised that he was happy to be in jail.

You'd think a smooth election would please him? But there's no money in that... like there is in a lawsuit.

[rman]

28. hah

good job

[Carolab]

55. He's on the right track.

"He later addressed a DFA meeting and spoke with Congressman Bob Filner about the importance of delaying HAVA implementation."

If he can get DFA interested then perhaps Dean will start to do more about it.

I personally don't know what his "motivation" is, but I have to say, his arrest got attention and that's what counts.

[FreedomAngel82]

56. Hooked up to the internet... interesting and

that reminds me of what was talked about in the pbs documentary "The Architect." It tells of how Karl Rove had access to real time exit polling or something like that. Do you think that is how they were able to steal it? :shrug:

[Robbie Michaels]

57. What Has March & Harris Done For Californians?

Nothing!

I'm here in San Diego County and after the BBV lawsuits we STILL have to fill out a ballot that's placed inside a reader. There's STILL no way to verify who we voted for, and we have no clue whether our ballot was accounted for or not.

Sure, Diebold has to fix the software in their machines in the next 30 days but have we heard anything about rectifying the accountability issues? NO

Have we heard anything about getting verification on who we vote for once the reader scans our ballot? NO

Have we heard anything about getting rid of voting machines in favor of going back to punchcards or paper ballots? NO

Having March and Harris stand up for my voting rights is like having Rafael Palmeiro lecture me about ethics, or Robert Novak giving me advice on maintaining my composure under pressure.

These two have no credibility in my mind, and we don't need them to represent our interests. Give us someone who will get us results rathre than grandstand for their own benefit!

[WhiteTara]

62. great news!

the quicksand under their feet is starting to suck them under. :bounce:

[rumpel]

63. I guess the only reason they drooped the charges is because they did not

want the details of the problems to go into mainstream media...