QUESTION: Could the Shrub and CrashCart be indicted for TREASON???

[Rosco T.]

I know that the office of the Presidency / Vice-Presidency gives them immunity from most (if not all) Criminal charges, I would assume that it wouldn't protect them from, let's say, MURDER charges if there was sufficient evidence that they committed it (as in, eye witness saw one pull a gun and empty it into someone).

But what about TREASON? Are they immune from being indicted for that?

(I'm having a thought exercise and it got me wondering..)

and I know, they have committed MURDER of almost 2000 American Troops and many thousand Iraqi citizens by lying into a war... but I'm thinking in the more 'conventional legal terms' here of an offense.

[Son of California]

1. I believe it was the guy who suceeded Lincoln

though I can't think of his name, who was Impeached on very questionable terms, mostly because he was profoundly disliked by everyone in Washington, acted like an idiot etc etc. I know, my history is hazy, but I bet someone on here could lay it out like an M-Fin' encyclopedia if they wanted.

I think it is a good story, because it shows that you don't need a good reason to impeach, just popular sentiment.

so can anyone elaborate the story for me?

[Literate Tar Heel]

5. Andrew Johnson

he avoided being impeached by the House by one vote after he tried to remove Edwin Stanton, his Secretary of War, which he didn't have the power to do ... Congress supported Stanton and charges of impeachment were brought ... you're right that he was very unpopular with Congress and the impeachment charges were mostly political

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. Andrew Johnson

was impeached mainly because he was a Democrat and the Congress was run by Republicans. The only reason he was on the ticket with Lincoln was because he was a Unionist from Tennessee, and Honest Abe thought he'd bring in some extra needed votes from Democrats who wanted the North to win. After Lincoln's assassination, the Congress, run by the Radical Republicans, made a law that stated Johnson couldn't change any members of his cabinet. They did this because they felt he was "too soft" on the South,which they wanted to punish. Johnson, a self-educated man (he didn't learn to read until he was a teenager), strongly believed in the Constitutional seperation of powers, and resented the power play by the Republicans. They went ahead and impeached him, knowing that if he went down, a Radical Republican would take over the White House. But one Senator from Missouri, I believe, realized that if Johnson went down, the Constitution did too, and voted not to convict. Johnson finished his term, and went back home. He was vindicated in a way when he was re-elected to the Senate and welcomed back with flowers. When he died, his will instructed that a copy of the Constitution be his pillow, and a flag placed over his body in the coffin.

[3waygeek]

11. IOW,

the same reason that Clinton was impeached.

[Son of California]

13. thank you

just like I read it out of an MFin' encyclopedia.

[Just Me]

2. After impeachment, the President can be indicted by Congress.

All the rest can be indicted and prosecuted.

That's the short answer.

[Rosco T.]

3. But the question is, could they be indicted "SPECIFICALLY" for TREASON ...

.. BEFORE IMPEACHMENT.

That is to say, would TREASON trump their 'protection while in office'.

Granted that would be a good reason to impeach them, but I'm looking toward a very specific charge here. TREASON. I guess would an incidement for that effectively be an 'instant impeachment'.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Article II, Sectiion Four of the US Constituion

read about high crimes, and misdemeanors, what do you think treason is? A walk in the park? (High Crime)

[Rosco T.]

6. I guess I'm not making it plain enough...

.. my bad.

We KNOW that the entire Junta has done enough to warrant impeachment.

We know that as it stand now (pre-06) it won't happen with the Neo-Nazi/Rapture Reich in charge.

Would an actual INDICTMENT of the charge of TREASON be enough to penetrate the 'wall of immunity' that surrounds the office of the Presidency / Vice-Presidency? Yes, TREASON would be a 'high crime', but would it REQUIRE the House/Senate to bring that indictment, or is that the 'ultimate High Crime' that would trump the House/Senate and FORCE their immediate removal from office, either by FORCING an immediate impeachment (bypassing the House/Senate) or simply by the nature of the 'High Crime'.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. sadly, no.

I think if you could find a prosecutor to do that, he or she would be blocked by Congress and/or the courts, saying that the President would have to be impeached and convicted first. Just my interpretation of the Constitution.

[Rosco T.]

9. That's what I was wondering...

.. would even calling them 'un-indicted co-conspirators' in a treasonous act be enough to break the strangle hold in Congress??

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. all depends on politics

Don't know if you're old enough to remember Watergate, but the reason Nixon wasn't indicted was because he would have to be impeached first. The reason he resigned was that the Republican leaders of Congress (Barry Goldwater among them), went and told him the country was no longer behind him--or them.

I think it will take a massive loss of confidence not only in W but in the GOP to cause anything to happen. But take heart, because the signs are there-the squeaker of a repuke victory in a 'safe seat' in Ohio, the dropping approval ratings of W AND the drop in viewership of mainstream media, especially Faux. Could be that Cindy's vigil in Crawford could be the lightening rod that rouses the public and the media to action. Let's hope it does.

[Rosco T.]

12. Tinfoil alert for my own post: Is Shrub's 'vacation' convenient timing...

all this is starting to come to a head

- Fitz's indictments

- His boss being 'replaced'

- Falling polls

Could, COULD Shrub be expecting the worst???

* If he replaces Fitz's boss, then could Fitz then immediately bring out his indictments, even if they are not all ready?

* Could Fitz and/or his aides have 'dead man drops' ready to spew forth EVERYTHING they have and get it out in public?

* Could Shrub be there for five weeks, to hope they can quash Fitz and his work, and if not....

* IIRC, Shrub has a contingent of TEXAS RANGERS in addition to the Secret Service there.. could he be counting on his hand-picked troops being willing to ignore the constution if necessary, and to keep out anyone that wasted to tell him "It's time to go". Not being in DC puts him out of 'easy' reach of a LOT of agencies.

* and, do IRC that CrashCart is not in DC either, that he's hiding out in his 'adopted' state also on vacation?

Am I being REALLY TINFOILY HERE??

(I won't even go into the possiblities that they want to be far away from DC incase 'something happens' that just happens to remove any/all of his opponents...)