Driver's License Renewal & Your Privacy (Good News/Bad News)

[Sapphocrat]

This post is California-specific, in my case, yes -- but the point is the much-larger issue of personal privacy (especially in light of this unsettling thread):

The good news is that renewing one's California driver's license online is a painlessly fast, smooth process. (Or was, for me.)

The bad news:

Social Security Number Collection Disclosure - You are required by law to provide your social security number or your application will be denied. Authority to collect the social security number is 42 U.S.C. 405 and California Vehicle Code Sections 1653.5, 4150, 4150.2, 12800, and 12801.

It will be used in the administration of driver license laws and motor vehicle registration laws and to respond to requests for information from the:

- Franchise Tax Board for tax administration

- Any agency operations pursuant to 42 U.S.C. 601 et.seq.

- It will be used to aid in the collection of monies owed in connection with:

-- Failure to pay fines or failure to appear in court by an applicant

-- Aid to Families with Dependent Children

-- Child Support

-- Establishment of Paternity

The good news is that I'm a good, clean, law-abiding (and non-sperm-producing) American who needn't worry about any of the above.

The bad news is that it really, really bugs me to have to turn over my SSN (again!) to a state agency, when "identification" was NOT the original purpose of the SSN in the first place.

BUT... I guess I'll live. And I will be happy that the process was so seamless, and that -- at least until 2008 -- I won't have to worry about the imminent requirement to turn over everything from my birth certificate to a possible iris scan to get my brand-new, just-short-of-chip-implantment REAL (BAD) ID card.

But then, God(dess)/Providence/the Fates/Karma/etc. may well see that I'm out of the country for good by then.

P.S. <start paranoia> Can you tell I'm frightened by ANY contact whatsoever with my state or local government these days? Do you know how happy I am that I still have a valid visa waiver for every country that reciprocates with the U.S. on the visa waiver program? Do you know how scary it is to have to re-apply for a visa waiver, and wait for the OK while wondering if some stray remark you made about, say, * being a poopyhead comes back to bite you in the ass and automatically relegate you to the no-fly list? Even if you've been so damned good and law-abiding all your life, you'd make Mother-Freaking-Teresa look like a bloody terrorist? </end paranoia>

[China_cat]

1. I agree with all you said

but you don't seem to have one piece of BAD news that we have here in SC...our DMV sells drivers' information to anyone with the money to buy the whole list, like mass marketers and scammers. Complete with your SS# so identity thieves could have themselves a ball. A proposal to stop this failed in our state legislature.

[Sapphocrat]

3. California did it to us, too...

...about 24 million of us -- which came to light when somebody discovered our full names, birth records (dates & birthplaces), SSNs, and -- get this -- our mothers' maiden names (!!!) were all on display at Rootsweb.com.

Thank God for state Sen. Jackie Speier (D, of course), whose hellraising over the issue prompted Gov. Gray Davis to stop the CA Dept of HHS from selling the state database (which any yahoo could buy for as little as twenty bucks, depending on what they were after).

So COMPLAIN, China_cat, COMPLAIN! How do your senators/rep/state legislators fare on privacy issues? One good point to emphasize is the potential threat to SC residents far outweighs any revenue to the state from selling the DMV database.

There's not much we can do to stem the flow of personal information where the fed is concerned (e.g., REAL ID), but we can at least slow the efforts of scammers & spammers by making it more difficult to access our "financial DNA".

As I understand it, CA still sells death records; I believe the argument is to make the jobs of estate lawyers easier. But even if you have no right to privacy after you're dead, the potential implications of identity theft for one's survivors are still serious. (I'm thinking, for example, of widows whose who credit ratings are still tied to their dead husbands' credit history.)

P.S. Calif. birth records are now off the Rootsweb database -- but I'm not sure if that came about through Sen. Speier's efforts, or because Rootsweb was flooded by a lot of angry letters (including mine) and the threat of a class action lawsuit. It's like closing the barn door after the horse has escaped, but at least it's done.

[China_cat]

4. We've done all the complaining we can.

Pointed out everything you mentioned. Hit hard on the identity theft issue. It even got taken to the state supreme court...who ruled in favor of the state because they said they couldn't do without the money it brings in. We don't have anywhere else to go.

[Sapphocrat]

6. That's appalling!

You've been sold out, literally, by SC's own SC. :mad:

This, and slavery, are the sort of thing that turn "states' rights" into such a Catch-22 situation. There's nothing anyone outside SC can do about it, no matter how wrong it is. And it is -- just plain wrong. :(

I wish we could lend you Sen. Speier.

Well, I suppose the first S. Carolinian who can prove a connection between a case of identity theft and this sleazy practice could always sue the state. I hate to see ID theft happen to anyone, but it could start a trend.

[China_cat]

7. I think you're right there

but proving the connection will be the problem and the state will do anything it can to make sure that connection can't be proven.

[Lannes]

2. Have to say one thing about living in FLA

Besides the obvious drawbacks,getting or renewing your license or registration is incredibly fast.When I was growing up in NYC it took me 6 hours just to get a learner's permit.My family had a vacation place in fla so I decided to get it there.The whole proces from written test,drivng test,and ID processing took less than an hour.

But I do worry about all these new ways to track everything we do and the info we have to give as you described.Its getting worse.

[Sapphocrat]

5. I'm delighted with the Calif. process, too...

...ever since the state made renewal-by-mail available (years ago), and now especially with the online renewal process. It's the first time I've ever completed a "How Did We Do?" survey for a state agency that was filled with nothing but positive ratings & remarks.

I guess as long as the state already has my photo and thumbprint on file (and my driving record is still clean as a whistle), they're just as happy not to drag me down to the DMV for a new photo, etc. (Extra bonus: My last DMV photo was GREAT, so I'm thrilled to keep it! LOL)

Plus, Calif. now issues automatic renewals for five years, instead of four (as in the past). Oregonians have it best of all; I'm pretty sure OR has the longest renewal, at 8 years.

One more thing Calif. offers: If you're going to be out of the state for an extended period of time and your CDL is up for renewal, you can get an extension for up to one year (even if there's some reason you need to appear in person to get it renewed "officially"). IIRC, Calif. came up with this scheme as a courtesy to military stationed overseas -- but it's a great convenience for the rest of us who travel, too.

The bad news: All these great conveniences go away, forever, in every state, come the spring of 2008, with REAL ID. I won't rant at length here about the privacy and personal-safety concerns (esp. when traveling overseas with an RFID chip), which are enormous. But most Americans won't care about any of that until it hits them personally -- and the way it's going to hit them is when they actually have to apply for their REAL ID for the first time.

From my own REAL (BAD) ID FAQ :

Will REAL ID increase the time it takes to process and issue a driver's license?

Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL): It requires that the State DMV verify every document, including birth certificates, presented by every applicant, including American citizens. This means significant expense and long processing delays.

Boston Globe: ... States would need to create new licenses, confirm the validity of the documents that people use to prove who they are, create databases to store these documents, protect the databases from hackers and unscrupulous employees, continuously update security features to stay ahead of counterfeiters, and have equipment to detect fraudulent licenses. It's a huge task given the many paper records that have not been entered into computers such as birth certificates. ...

Cheye Calvo, National Conference of State Legislatures: Passing the REAL ID Act means that the lines at the DMV are going to be longer than those at the voting booth last November. ...

What documents will be required to get my REAL ID?

Wired: ... Drivers would have to provide four types of documentation, such as a photo ID, a birth certificate, proof that their Social Security number is legitimate and something that verifies the applicant's full home address, such as a utility bill. ...

Chicago Tribune: That would mean more identification will be required for a driver's license than is needed for a U.S. passport that currently requires a photo ID like a drivers license and proof of citizenship, typically a birth certificate. ...

AP: States also question how they will verify birth certificates, whose appearance vary widely by state and county. (Maine secretary of state Matt) Dunlap said his state has only a portion of birth certificates online.

St. Louis Post-Dispatch: (Illinois state) workers can verify Social Security numbers on a computer network, but there is no national database for county birth records. ...

Wired: "What's the clerk in Denver supposed to do when someone provides a birth certificate from Angola?" asked Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center. "Are they supposed (to call Angola) to check the accuracy of that?"

Lt. Col. Margaret Stock, MPC: Also, anyone without a passport or other federal ID prior to the effective date of the law will have difficulty obtaining one unless she can produce some other valid government-issued picture identification, such as a foreign passport. Strangely, this law will make it easier for foreigners or naturalized citizens to travel than native born Americans: The law allows the use of a foreign passport, but bars the use of American state-issued licenses and identification cards.

Statesman Journal: Some people will find themselves scrambling to find the identity papers they need to prove they are who they are... People who have lost documentation because of fires or theft have a tough time meeting the state's new requirements for verifying their identity. ...

Will I still be able to renew my driver's license by mail?

Salem News: The law would mean an end to license renewals by mail. Everyone renewing a drivers license would have to report to the Registry of Motor Vehicles and produce the required identification. ...

Chicago Tribune: "If you think a trip to the division of motor vehicles is a bad experience today, wait until the REAL ID takes effect," said Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., the Senate's second-ranking Democrat. ...

Will I be able to get everything taken care of in one trip to the DMV?

AP: States fear the new rules may force applicants to make more than one trip to motor vehicle departments, once to provide documents such as birth certificates that states must verify and a second time to pick up the license, state officials said.

Reno Gazette-Journal: "You would not walk out of the office with a drivers license," (Tom Jacobs, spokesman for the Nevada Department of Motor Vehicles) said.

How many existing licensed drivers will be affected by REAL ID?

U.S. DOT: +/-196,000,000

This number does not include the number of non-drivers issued state identification cards. -- JR

Asheville Citizen-Times: This raises a slew of questions, such as the obvious one of what people who don’t own a car do about this...

Plus, it's going to cost us all a bundle; the fed has no intention of reimbursing the states for the huge cost of REAL ID, and no one has any reasonable estimate of what it's going to cost. Estimates vary wildly between $120 and $700 million over the first five years just to implement the entire program, and then another $50 to $75 million per year to administer.

These estimates are insanely optimistic; the state (sorry, commonwealth!) of Virginia already estimates that Virginia alone would need to spend $237 million initially to comply with REAL ID.

By comparison:

Malaysia spent $90 million to build and deploy an ID system to 2 million of its 23 million citizens, but (Robert Gellman, a privacy and information consultant based in Washington) said the United States could expect to pay much more. "Even if it only takes an hour or two of people's time (to register), that's times 250 million Americans at so many dollars per hour, and we've not even come to the point of buying the cards," he said.

So how are the states going to pay for REAL ID? Since the bill "allows the Homeland Security secretary to offer grants to help states to comply, but doesn't provide money," take a wild guess:

Lt. Col. Margaret Stock, MPC: If the federal government isn't going to pay to implement this law, most states won't be able to pay for it without raising taxes -- and all of their residents will be punished accordingly. ...

And it's highly unlikely all or even most states will be able to comply within the three-year deadline. If yours doesn't...

Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL): If a State, incidentally, fails to comply with the REAL ID provisions included in the House bill, no resident of that State -- listen to this carefully -- no resident of that State will be able to use their driver's license for Federal purposes. So what would that mean? ... This provision coming over from the Republican House says if your State does not comply with this law, if you are a resident of that State, you cannot use your driver's license to get on an airplane. What will you use? If you have a passport, I guess you could use it, but many people do not have a passport. So it goes way beyond what it needs to do to make certain we have secure driver's licenses. ...

Plus, any DMV that can't (or refuses to) comply loses federal funding. (It's the double-nickels blackmail scheme all over again: "You don't have to lower the speed limit to 55mph," said the fed, "but if you don't, we're cutting off your highway funding.")

Plus:

Cheye Calvo, National Conference of State Legislatures: (The) cost could rise too if the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security exercises his authority to order further design changes in terms of information or new technologies to be added to driver's licenses.

The good news: REAL ID may be unconstitutional (10th Amendment) and appears to violate at least one international treaty (the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights), as it essentially eliminates habeas corpus for immigrants.

Too, more than 600 organizations are completely opposed to REAL ID, including such heavy hitters as the National Governors Association, the National Conference of State Legislatures, the Council of State Governments, the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators, et al.

So, while we were sold down the river by every single one of our senators ("But the REAL ID Act was attached to emergency funding for the troops! I couldn't NOT vote for it!" is the answer you'll get), it is possible that REAL ID could be postponed indefinitely, or overturned before it ever gets underway.

I just hope we can build enough momentum within the next three years to stop it. But I'm afraid those of us concerned about it are on our own; the general public isn't going to give a damn ("It's for Homeland Security, and it'll stop terrorists, and I have nothing to hide!") -- until each and every one of them is forced to dig up the required paperwork, make multiple trips to the DMV, and pay perhaps two, three, five times as much as they did for their last driver's license.

(I may be dead wrong on this, but I believe I read that implementing the same ID system in the U.K. was estimated to cost around $300 per card -- and the cost would be passed on to the cardholder.)

My apologies for the long post, but the more we keep repeating this info, the sooner it may seep into the public consciousness.

P.S. Hey, FREEPERS! This is ONE issue I KNOW we agree on! Opposition to REAL ID crosses all party lines; a long list of Republican lawmakers is dead set against it too, as are some of the most anti-liberal, "cold dead hands" gun groups.

So, freepers, don't consider the source of this message; Try to put aside your deep hatred for liberals long enough to consider the impact REAL ID will have on you.

If you're serious when you complain about big government, states' rights, personal privacy, and high taxes, among other rock-solid conservative issues, then get on the bandwagon and fight this!

In the meantime, you can keep hating me as much as you want. ;)