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Serious Question: Why Do Repukes So Abhor The Idea Of National Healthcare

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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:05 PM
Original message
Serious Question: Why Do Repukes So Abhor The Idea Of National Healthcare
I mean really. Not all these people who are against it are rich. MANY of them are paying the same health premiums as you and I are. MANY of these people are used to waiting HOURS in the emergency room like you and I are. MANY of these people are WITHOUT insurance (i have to believe) and their aging parents are going through the same costs that your and my aging parents are going through.

Now, most often freeptards point to Canada as to WHY national healthcare would be a disaster.

We have 2 couples who are VERY good and close friends who are from and live in Canada. One couple live in downtown Toronto. They are healthy but when I speak to them about their healthcare, they have no complaints. They get regular checkups (as I do) every six months and they don't really think much of it. They get all the blood tests, urine screenings etc... They don't wait in long lines or anything, they just make their appointments and go. They said the only time there is a wait for anything is if there is a flu outbreak or something, their could be lines for flu shots etc... (same as here)

The other couple live with their 3 teenage kids in a tiny town outside Ontario. Its pretty rural out there (a one stop light kind of town). They tell of stories of kids who are active, breaking bones in sports, etc... and they tell me they have NEVER had a problem. They have a clinic out there (the hospital is about 45 minutes away) and they get right in (son broke a leg 2 summers ago) and if the clinic wont do it, the clinic sends them to the hospital. No hassle, no bills, etc..

3 years ago the father was diagnosed with Prostate Cancer (stage 2). He doesn't have any special connections but within 40 days of diagnosis, he had gone over treatment options with a specialist and was in Toronto for prostate surgery. 3 years now cancer free. No bills, no hassles, no bullshit.

so, these are only 2 stories i know but i can't really see why Repukes would get their panties in a wad over the government providing and paying for healthcare services for its citizens. BTW, neither of our Canadian couple's can figure out the "battle" down here (especially when I tell them what premiums are, prescriptions, etc...) It just doesn't make sense to me.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Our government is '0wn3d' by the insurance industry
Both parties, but Republicans more than Democrats.

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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. You mean you don't know?
"IT'S SOCIALISM!!! :scared: :scared::scared::scared:

It's the biggest, baddest boogeyman of them all!
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. I have a friend who is a dyed-in-the-wool RW wacko.
Edited on Mon Aug-08-05 08:34 PM by Jackpine Radical
He makes maybe $40k a year, and last winter his wife got awfully badly injured ramming into a tree in a freak sledding accident. The hospital on his health care plan was filled with flu cases or something, so the ambulance was diverted to the other hospital in town, one not on his health plan. That was a major contributing factor to the problems he has had since in trying to get all the billings straightened out, dealing with (probably outsourced Indian) clerical people on the phone, etc. He has probably 20k in bills that he thinks he's going to have to eat due to co-pays, non-covered but necessary services, etc. His office is next to mine at work. Sometimes I hear him on the phone raging and screaming at the little clerks as he fights his lonely battle against the bureaucracy.

I once said to him, "You know, it wouldn't be like this if we had a single-payer health system."

That set him off on another raging rant about Socialism and how our health care system kept his wife alive because there was an emergency room available and she didn't have to wait 6 months for admission like whe would have in Canada, etc. He went through every moronic argument you've ever heard, and a few you maybe haven't, in support of our health care system.

A major theme for him seems to be that he'd rather suffer like this than take the risk that some poor person would be taking advantage of him by getting health care that they don't deserve.

I know that another part of the problem is the fact that his son is a $135k per year pharmacy manager for a super Wal-Mart stor in town, so he has a ready supply for all that health care industry propaganda. But even so, you'd expect to find a few cracks in the denial by now, and I don't see them.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. If he's telling you that his kid makes $135k a year at Wal-Mart...
he's lying.

I'm pretty familiar with the pay scale in pharmacy management for Wal-Mart and a few of their competitors. He's inflating that figure by a good 50%. $75k-$90k is more likely.

I find it amazing that he can still bitch about a single-payer health system with all of the problems he's had with our current one. Denial is certainly a defining trait of his! Ignorance appears to be a close second.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. I really doubt he's lying about his kid's income.
The kid may be talking big to him, however.

Also, might there not be regional differences in salaries due to local labor supply situations?

And yeah, that denial is amazing. His whole cerebral cortical system seems to shut down & he goes into rages. He's about to blow his heart out with a coronary, I think. He's got the whole profile--metabolic syndrome, hypertension, implacable hostility...and he's been getting chest pains and some CHF symptoms.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. There are regional differences, however....
since your profile says that you're in WI, I figured that he might be there, too. Salaries in LA, NY, San Fran, and a few other metros might be closer, but no way is he making that in WI.

My guess is that you're right and that the kid is inflating the figure to Dad.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #28
37. I think he is telling the truth about his income.
I had a friend who was a pharmacist at WalMart and he was making $125K. He took the job after his job with Caremark went away.

I think store managers make pretty good money, too, IIRC.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. because you couldn't make money out of people's suffering
there is no other reason
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Gildor Inglorion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. Propaganda from the insurance companies and
the greedy "health-care" companies and the greedy physicians and specialists, etc. We're getting less health care for our money than practically anywhere else in the world and are expected to be grateful for it. Even poor little Cuba, after a half century of US blockades & embargoes, has a lower infant mortality rate than this country. Now, it is true that we have the best orthodontia, sports medicine, and cosmetic surgery in the world. Let's give credit where it's due.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. Having spoken recently with a couple of True Believers...
They don't think the government should interfere.
They have been convinced that "we have the best healthcare in the world".
Government healthcare is ruining the economies in other countries.
When I press the matter, I'm called a Communist.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm not saying it's perfect, but our Health Care is great!
My wife needed a hip replacement. From the time she was diagnosed to the time of the operation was about 8 months (my wife postponed it herself once).

There were complications (they broke her leg) and some extra recovery time, but everything went fairly smoothly. Great doctors, caring nurses. She now has the "cadillac" of hip replacements and it should last 15 years at least.

And the cost of all this? Zero. Zip. Nada.

No "hidden fees", no "premiums", no "administrative charges". Just my own time and gas money driving her to and from the hospital.
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
32. Do Canadians in urban and suburban areas have ready access to ER's ?
This is an innocent, ignorant question, not an accusatory one :-)
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Just as much as Americans do
The problems we're having is mostly with access to high-tech healthcare (CAT scans, etc.) and rural access to a family doctor.
But our walk-in clinics and hospital ER's are pretty good. And emergency response times are similar to yours.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. Repukes abhor any welfare or entitlement not expressly benefiting only
the most affluent and large corporations: any other welfare or entitlement is socialistic or communistic.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. They can't bear the idea of successful government programs
not dedicated to slaughtering people (and I include our highway system in that short list).
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. Well, the mouth-breathers have been conditioned...
...to hate with a passion anything even RESEMBLING socialism and the smart ones, the ones that call the shots, use the mouth-breathers to protect the profits of those who would stand to lose by a system of national health care.
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Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think perhaps they see public services

as anti-social-darwinist and expect that if the world ran right they would be the natural winners.
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DIKB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. HOW has everyone missed it ???
The ONE AND ONLY thing that matters to them? Universal Health Care = Higher taxes. And according to their "Great Saint Ronnie" and their idiot-Messiah * NOTHING and I mean NOTHING is worth higher taxes.

These people have been so conditioned to believe that taxes are evil, that nothing that can be gained in return will ever be worth it to them. You could make heaven on earth, but if it costs them more money in taxes, you will be worse than Hitler in their eyes.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Universal Health DOES NOT = higher taxes
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SeekerofTruth Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. It's easy, VA
The VA system is a federally funded health care system. Look at how it's never properly funded and the problems veterans have.

If Democrats truly wanted a national health care system, wouldn't they hold up the VA system as a model?

I don't trust the government running everything. I believe in capitalism with the government as overseer (like our food supply).
Why can't healthcare utilize the strengths of government working with the strengths of capitalism? (It doesn't do that now)

Why don't Republicans want National Health Care? They don't trust the government because the government has no reason to be efficient and thus health care costs would still rise and service would get worse. However, they do support big government for the military, or religious morals, or for making them money.

My 2 cents.

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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. but the VA system doesn't cover former Vets
only retired Vets. i'm a Vet but don't get the bennies :shrug:
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. I'm also a vet
with a few miscellaneous bullet holes & other little souvenirs, such as impaired hearing, from Vietnam. My major health problems aren't connected to those injuries, so I can't get assistance from them either.
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bballny Donating Member (456 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. I own my own business
It is a one oerson company. Ask anyone who is against National healthcare why should a single person buying their own healthcare pay more that someone who works for a big company. Ask them why that happens. They will be pretty silent. Also if you get a chance ask any republican lawmaker.
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firefox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. Brainwashing, propaganda, and ignorance n/t
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. That about sums it up doesn't it...
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. Because it's...
... GODDAMNED RED COMMUNISM! That's why. *sigh*

There are people in this country who have been greatly influenced by arguments that they don't understand, but sound good. They fear their taxes going up. They fear that they might be paying for someone else's care that they think isn't worthy enough. They fear that's it's a big step toward communism.

In other words, they've bought into the corporate message about universal health care. The only people it will really cost are the people profiting from the health care system. The statistics are pretty simple--and dramatic--but there are a lot of people in this country who don't understand what they mean at all. So, all the evidence one has in favor of universal health care is lost on the people most in need of it.

The other point that ought to be made about corporate influence is that health care availability tends to lock people in jobs where they have it--and that works in larger corporations' favor, as well. With universal healthcare, people would tend to have more job mobility and might not put up with incessant moves to keep a job, or bad bosses, or corrupt business practices. My guess is that universal health care would be a boon for smaller businesses, just on that basis alone.

But, convincing the stridently conservative in this country is a real challenge.

Cheers.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. Because it makes for people who are very grateful to government.
And it ties the whole country together in a huge project that saves lives & money.

How can they win elections if they cannot play one group of another? They must foster hate. They detach the elites from any sense of community. Then they can gain power.

Afterall it isn't about leadership or running the country. It is about power. And feeling good "down there". What is more important than a few people feeling great about themselves and controlling the lives of others in a way that make them feel powerful and on top? :sarcasm:
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'd like to know the answer as well because
it mystifies me that so many Repugs are against the idea.

I'm sure you know there's the National Health Service in the UK too, and in spite of its flaws, I can't understand why anyone would prefer the American system (and having grown up in the States but lived in England for nearly 20 years, I've experienced both - and I know which one I prefer).

The peace of mind alone makes national healthcare worthwhile. No one wants to get sick, but it's sure nice to know that if you do, you can see a doctor and get medical treatment without going bankrupt. I spent 6 weeks in the hospital during my last very difficult pregnancy and we weren't faced with huge hospital bills at the end of it, or any bills at all. My kids get free prescriptions and dental care until they're 16. The National Health Service rocks.

The way I see it, Republicans don't like the idea of national healthcare because they're so hateful that they can't stand the idea that someone, say, without a job or otherwise not paying into the system would be entitled to equal health care under the law. Feeling that way is spiteful and mean and hurts everyone but the extremely wealthy in the long run. Being a Republican, in my experience, means having a tiny heart and an even tinier conscience.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. Do you think an American insurance company would do this?
A teenage Canadian girl was visiting a neighbor. Out of the blue she had a gallbladder attack that caused acute pancreatitis, a life-threatening condition. She was rushed from the local hospital in southern Vermont to a major medical center in NH. The doctors there did megabucks worth of tests and were ready to operate. The Canadian health care system decided the American hospital was charging way too much and since the girl was stabilized they sent a private jet to pick her up and take her to a hospital in Canada for treatment. I was stunned. It was cheaper to fly a private jet down and back than to have the surgery go ahead. The girl is now fine, proving our profit-driven healthcare delivery system is what's keeping the masses from good health. It's obvious why the Republicans oppose the idea of universal health care: their bank accounts would suffer. Ignore the poor Repukes . . . they're idiots without brains who will follow the wealthy leadership like lemmings.
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
20. I think
polls show that a large majority of Americans want universal health care. This means many Republican voters are for universal healthcare too. As for the people against it, it's good old fashioned greed.

Here's a link to public opinion on universal healthcare.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/US/healthcare031020_poll.html
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. My cynical answer is that some if not most physicians would end up being
paid less under that system than the current system. Yes, there would still be docs with private practices who would be earning megabucks, but less of them I believe.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Yes, but only somewhat lower.
Check into what Canadian docs make.

Truthfully, the costs mostly aren't in the delivery end. They're in the administrative bureaucracy, Big Pharma profits, & in too many incredibly expensive devices such as MRIs.

The fancy equipment is a particular problem BTW because every hospital thinks they have to have one for prestige, but they don't have enough legitimate diagnostic work to do with them so they pressure the docs into ordering more procedures than they would otherwise. There are 3 hospitals in my immediate area & 2 MRIs, but they only really need 1, which is what they would have if there were some rational cnetral planning among them.
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 08:59 PM
Original message
you're right, thanks for refreshing my memory nt
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
25. Private enterprise is the ONLY answer for EVERYTHING
As ususal, it's pure black and white for them.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
29. Because a huge amount of their support money comes
Edited on Mon Aug-08-05 09:00 PM by Cleita
from the health care industries. If you look up most of our Republican Congressional Representatives and Senators on Open Secrets you find that they are heavily funded by the for profit health care industry. The industry is the the ones who poisons the well with their propaganda when they see that most people on both sides are agreeable to it.

My Republican Congressional Representative gets approximately 75% of his campaign financing from the health care industry, not his constituents. He is head of the powerful Ways and Means Committee. The industry makes sure no legislation gets put up for debate by supporting him as the gate keeper. It is even rumored that he had an affair with a health industry lobbyist. I guess prostituting themselves isn't beneath them if this is true.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
30. Insurance companies have convinced them their taxes will be
Edited on Mon Aug-08-05 09:04 PM by B Calm
sky high..
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
31. Businesses can't afford to pay health care either
so you'd think Republicans would be on board with the idea of a national health care system.

We'll pay for health care one place or another, either in taxes or out of paychecks. I think it's crazy to tie health care to employment, because it hurts everyone, including large corporations.
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
34. Well, because they're in the pocket of big business (just like the Dems).
And the Dems also abhor single-payer, for the most part.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
38. Oh that's too easy
Edited on Wed Aug-10-05 11:17 AM by jokerman93
There's no profit in it. Newt Grinchrich is promoting a plan whereby all Americans will have "Health Insurance". Sounds likw political coercion or rigged social engineering for profits. There is a huge insurance/pharma cartel now. They want to own us. It's good for business.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
39. Basic Conservative Philosophy (old Liberalism)
Edited on Wed Aug-10-05 01:00 PM by kenny blankenship
Basic 17th & 18th century Liberal philosophy (the root of much Conservative Orthodoxy into the 20th century in Britain and America) holds that we are all equal and separate. We live and die more or less on our own, or at most in organic/biological units of kinship (the Famblee). No one comes into this world with any claim on anyone else. Much like Democritus or Thales searching, with only speculation to guide them and without instrumentation of any kind, for the indivisible constituent of all matter, Classical Liberals sought to isolate and elevate the most basic unit of the human subject in which a philosophical grounding for freedom could be established: the INDIVIDUAL. The individual is born naked with none of his needs provided for him by Nature and he dies alone; all that reason can discover about his nature comes down to that; society must have originated in the conscious decision of individuals to trade obedience to contractual agreements ( laws and government ) for safety with no one member (like a king or nobleman) above the rest by his very nature or above the binding power of contracts; therefore the individual is entitled to make himself as comfortable as he can in the time intervening between birth and death, all that he produces for this end is his own, and no one is more important than the contractual laws that govern all. That is the justification for overthrowing monarchies (or at least limiting monarchs so that they cannot raid your property), and also the justification for allowing people to resist the church as well, since it allows them to define the "pursuit of happiness" as the accumulation of property without any obligation to organize their lives around preparing for the "next life", or other spiritual imperatives used to control people. Now the same rhetorical stroke that 17th Century Liberals used to cut people free from the claims of monarchy/aristocracy and church, also severs them from any idea of society with a claim on their goodwill. All society can demand of individuals (under Anglo-American classical liberalism) is obedience to laws forbidding harm to others: a negative demand of "thou shalt not". Society does not have a positive claim to press on individuals--on their affections and opinions. It cannot demand of individuals "Love one another". It cannot say "thou shalt". Classical Liberalism lacks the last imperative of the French Revolutionary slogan. Liberty yes, Equality yes, but no Brotherhood. The only party in America which makes a fetish of following the Liberalism of the Revolutionary period is the Libertarian Party. Now I think we can all agree that Libertarians have a screw loose somewhere (it's something you're bound to become aware of while talking to them: they're in love with this misty theory and the real world is of no importance to them) and they resemble neurotics in their clutching adherence to the past, and resemble autistics in their denial of the existence of other people. Extreme examples of old Liberalism like Margaret Thatcher will sometimes go so far as to declare "There is no such thing as society." There is no society because the individual is ALL; and to get back to the question of healthcare, NOTHING could be more the sole sovereign province of the individual's self-determination than the matter of his health. Healthcare is absolutely foundational. Putting the state over the individual's decisions or provisions for his own healthcare, or putting the state between the individual and access to healthcare, is something Conservatives would view as a deprivation of the individual's natural right. They would view it as on the same level with the former right of Kings to deprive subjects of their heads for arbitrary reasons. Putting it that way, they have an emotionally persuasive threat--but putting emotion and rhetoric aside, what if it worked out in reverse fashion? What if the mediation of the state between the individual and healthcare actually provided MORE access, when assessed by rational measures, to healthcare not less? Devout Conservatives would never allow themselves to even consider this possibility. It HAS TO mean LESS for them and they will never concede the opposite could be true. Practical reality can never intrude upon their principle. If confronted with statistics showing better health among populations with socialized medicine, they would just fall back to complaining that providing healthcare as a right "corrupts" and enslaves the people by conditioning them to rely on the state for what they should have to provide themselves.

If America ever embraced a universal healthcare program, it would nail the coffin shut on the ancestor worship we practice around here for GOOD. The Republican base, although it frequently makes communitarian claims, based on nationalism and Xtian fundamentalism, clings to the Classical Liberal ideal and positions itself always as the party of ideological purity that the Founders would all belong to were they alive today. They use that image of themselves as the true loyal Americans following in the faith of the Founders as a hammer to destroy the Democrats and all the beneficial ideas that the Democrats have brought to American life. And they use this as a quasi-religious justification giving big business everything it wants, including not just freedom from regulation but even immunity from civil prosecution for damages under age old Common Law. But what if America embraced a policy that was so basic in its philosophical implications that it could be held up to explain "this is who we are and what we believe"--and what if this foundational policy or program was the kind of program or policy that the Founders could never have endorsed in a million years? Universal healthcare is such a policy. It wipes away the anti-social, individualist worldview through a benign bracketing of the individual's existence by the supporting presence of his SOCIETY. That's why freeptards fear it. They believe in and love (in their sick way) a world in which you're born alone and will die alone, and you will live clutching your pile of gold in one hand your gun in the other. Think about the things they say--nothing GOOD ever comes from society to hear them tell it. Society provides them with the jobs they have, whatever education they possess that enable them to hold their jobs, even the safety and availbility of the food they eat, but still they ONLY bitch about the "threat" of bad cultural influences--pop music, Hollywood, television, etc. And government, of course, is the CROWINING EVIL of society. While populations are sparse, resources abundant and conditions primitive, that worldview can last a while. But it is running out of time just as we are running out of free land to run to. The finite nature of our resources and our growth eventually force us to deal with the social connectedness of our lives and conditions. We will have civilization forced on us as our cherished barbarisms become impractical even for the most impractical people on Earth.

If Americans are led to socialized medicine by the mounting failure of private medicine to provide for the good health of enough of us at a reasonable cost burden, then the game will soon be over for Republican manipulation of the individual and his fears of the constraints of society and government.
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