"I Pledge Allegiance..." e-mail I received today

[Clintmax]

My sister is a bible thumping repuglican and I am constantly getting forwarded e-mails from her about Jesus says this and Jesus says that, as well as some things I am to "watch out for" that, after some investigating, usually end up being urban legends, and I delight in replying back to her disproving whatever thing she sent me to watch out for. Today, however, I get this forwarded e-mail from her that has done nothing but made me madder than hell:

"I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG, OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE
REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH
LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!



I was asked to send this on if I agree or delete if I don't. It is said that
86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time
understanding why there is such a problem in having "In God! We Trust" on
our money and having "God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just
tell the 14% and the ACLU to Shut Up and BE QUIET!!! This country was
founded on a belief in God!!! That's the way it should stay!!

If you agree, pass this on, if not delete."

This from a realtor for Billy Long/Keller Williams named Cathy Saurage.
I am going to reply directly to her about what a bitch she is, but I thought maybe some of you might give me some ideas of things to say to her to put her in her place. Tell us and the ACLU to "Shut Up and BE QUIET"??? I don't THINK so!

[bbernardini]

1. I'm a little confused about the realtor part...

But forward it to the realtor's boss. :)

[Clintmax]

3. Well, I just mentioned she was a realtor because...

she used her company e-mail system to send out the mail. Forwarding it to her boss is a GREAT idea!

[bbernardini]

26. Oh, then absolutely forward it to her boss!

What is it about realtors? ;) (By the way, Regina Gulick is back on the Coldwell Banker Atlanta website.)

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Received that one some time ago.. here's how it went for me

http://www.livejournal.com/users/gpv/1281.html

[Clintmax]

10. Excellent! Thanks for the link!

I may just use everything you said...if you don't mind!

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. Feel free. Be sure to use the snopes one I forgot! :^)

[Clintmax]

17. Yeah, no doubt!

Thanks again!

[SteppingRazor]

4. Ah yes. The tyranny of the majority.

So, no ,atter what the vast majority of the country thinks, we should go with that?
So, we should keep abortion legal, right?
We should have universal heath care, right?
We should have Democrats running the country, right?

I could go on, but you get the idea.

[Mr_Spock]

5. A Repuke jerk at work forwarded the courts & religious writings crap to me

We haven't been on the same terms ever since. I was extremely pissed but I never said anything to her DIRECTLY (I didn't even want to acknowledge the crap). She'll never do that again - unless she want's to be fired.

[intheflow]

6. Let her know that when "under God" was added to the pledge,

it divided the country. The pledge used to read "one nation, indivisible," but now since it reads "one nation, under God, indivisible" the country has divided between those who believe in God and those who don't--or who don't think you should have to in order to be a partriotic US citizen. Before we were a country united, now we are a country divided.

And who cares if it's only 14% of Americans who feel alienated? Jesus reached out to those alienated from society (lepers and prostitutes, for instance)--and as a "good Christian" in a (supposedly) good "Christian nation," she should want to reconcile with the alienated, too.

[Al-CIAda]

It was inserted in the 50's during the 'red scare' era of 'commies'. nt

[skeeterintexas]

7. What an idiot

She got this part wrong:

This country was
founded on a belief in God!!! That's the way it should stay!!

No dearie. This country was founded on RELIGIOUS FREEDOM! You know...where everyone can worship the way they want...not the way YOU want them to.

G*d that drives me crazy.

[seabeyond]

8. 14% and the ACLU to Shut Up and BE QUIET!!! ....because it is un

christian. unchristian. that is why. because 14% is part of this nation too, and they are not under god. ebcause, it is respectful. adn because, it is not what jesus would do

[MsTryska]

9. How about showing her the history of the Pledge -

which was created by a Socialist who would most likely have resented God showing up anywhere in his pledge...

from this link:

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

"Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

Francis Bellamy in his sermons and lectures and Edward Bellamy in his novels and articles described in detail how the middle class could create a planned economy with political, social and economic equality for all. The government would run a peace time economy similar to our present military industrial complex.

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. < * 'to' added in October, 1892. >

In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there."

[Clintmax]

13. Perfecto! I LOVE it!

Thank you SO much!

[stopbush]

11. I thought the USA was a country where the MINORITY had a voice

even while the majority ruled. Your sister needs to check The Constitution.

BTW - the USA can and will exist without the Bible, Xtians and any other religions. It ceases to exist when we throw out The Constitution.
Religions and the freedom to believe in them are NOT essential to the existence or governance of the USA. The Constitution is.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

14. Shut up AND be quiet? lol

Ask her if you can do just one or the other ;)

Ask her which denomination's interpretation of the Scriptures she wants established as law.

Find the original Pledge of Allegiance and remind her of how many times it's been changed.

And remind her that this country was founded on the idea that each person's religion is their own, and that both her faith and the government are best served when both are protected from each other.

[Kerrytravelers]

15. Oh dear.

Well, the Founding Fathers were not all Christians. Advise that they consider reading the writings of the Founding Fathers along with the Constitution.

Second, "under God" was added in 1954 to show the Communists we don't reject religion. It was a stupid reason to add it and it's even stupider tyo force people to say it. I"m a Christian and I refuse to say "under God" when I say the Pledge.

[Sgent]

16. Point out that merely the writing of it

is offensive to some people, and many people who believe in G-d (me for example), severely dislike the pledge the way its written. Of course I'm an ACLU & AU (American's United) member...

Oh yea, don't forget that many churches were not / are not in favor of G-d on the public square.

One other thing, in at least some religions writing the name of G-d on a mudane item such as money is blasphemy. So the ability to work at the mint, or at the federal reserve (which destroys it), could be discriminatory.

[CrispyQ]

18. I would ask her

"How would you feel if you were in a group that comprised 14% of the population & you were told to SHUT UP & BE QUIET?"

That attitude is contrary to Democracy.

You might also remind her that 'under God' was not in the original Pledge. Here's some info here that may help.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_pled.htm

[Warren DeMontague]

19. Cathy Sausage?

Oh, sorry. I must be going deaf.

[RobertSeattle]

20. "If you agree, pass this on, if not delete."

I don't think so... Reply All and give'em hell Clintmax.

I don't care if you are in the 0.001% minority, you still have rights according to the Constition.

[Clintmax]

23. I'm going to Robert!

Full steam ahead!

[MisterP]

29. Fascists' greatest hatred is against freedom of speech: agree with us

or be silent--it was in the e-mail itself.

[Clintmax]

30. You got it, Mr. P! n/t

[MisterP]

39. Garrison Keillor said that these people are "not comfortable with a free

society"

[Guaranteed]

21. No, YOU shut up and be quiet!

LOL

Look, folks- you can SAY that the country was "founded on a belief in God" all you want. It ain't true, in the least. It was discussed, and summarily rejected at the outset. There is much, much documentation for this.

So forget it, assholes. Everyone gets to practice their own religion, or none at all. That's America.

Now "shut up and be quiet!"

[pdx_prog]

22. Look up the Treaty of Tripoli.....

read article 11....

[Al-CIAda]

24. America is NOT a "Christian nation"- Founding Father Quotes You Won't Hear

Founding Father Quotes You Won't Hear on the 700 Club

George Washington

George Washington to Tench Tilghman, (March 24, 1784):
"I am a good deal in want of a House Joiner and Bricklayer, (who really understand their profession) and you would do me a favor by purchasing one of each, for me. I would not confine you to Palatines. If they are good workmen, they may be of Asia, Africa, or Europe. They may be Mahometans, Jews or Christian of an Sect, or they may be Atheists."



John Adams

From a letter to Charles Cushing (October 19, 1756):
“Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, ‘this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.’”

A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787–88:
“The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. … It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses. …Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery… are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind”

Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11: Written during the Administration of George Washington and signed into law by John Adams. 
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, (July 16, 1814):
"Cabalistic Christianity, which is Catholic Christianity, and which has prevailed for 1,500 years, has received a mortal wound, of which the monster must finally die. Yet so strong is his constitution, that he may endure for centuries before he expires."

More on John Adams

Thomas Jefferson

Letter to his nephew, Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

Thomas Jefferson to Jeremiah Moore, August 14, 1800
"The clergy, by getting themselves established by law, & ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man. They are still so in many countries & even in some of these United States. Even in 1783, we doubted the stability of our recent measures for reducing them to the footing of other useful callings. It now appears that our means were effectual."

Letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush, September 23, 1800
“ believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man”

Thomas Jefferson, March 4, 1801, First Inaugural Address
"And let us reflect that, having banished from our land that religious intolerance under which mankind so long bled and suffered, we have yet gained little if we countenance a political intolerance as despotic, as wicked, and capable of as bitter and bloody persecutions."

Thomas Jefferson, letter to Edward Dowse, April 19, 1803
"I will never, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance, or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others."

Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, January 19, 1810
"But a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors in Church and State."



Much more-
http://www.deism.org/foundingfathers.htm

[seabeyond]

28. more, some may be redundant

Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

- Thomas Jefferson

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

- Thomas Jefferson

The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.

- John Adams

During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.

-James Madison

What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.

-James Madison

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.

-Thomas Paine

It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it (the Apocalypse), and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814



The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those, calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter... But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshiped by many who think themselves Christians.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789

They believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion.

-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
Patrick Henry has been quoted as saying that, but as to the context, and the source I am not sure.
Thomas Jefferson was a Deist. A Deist according to Webster's is (1) The belief in the existence of a God on purely rational grounds without reliance on revelation or authority; especially in the 17th and 18th centuries. (2) The doctrine that God created the world and its natural laws, but takes no further part in its functioning. Thomas Jefferson wrote his own version of the Bible (The Jefferson Bible), of which I own a copy. It TOTALLY removes all accounts of the divinity of Christ and all of the miracles - including the virgin birth. Benjamin Franklin was raised Episcopalian, but was also a Deist. John Adams was raised a Congregationalist, but later became a Unitarian. Here are what some of the other founders had to say about it.

John Adams:

"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

John Adams again:

"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."

Still more John Adams:

“...Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretense of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”


Thomas Jefferson:

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

Jefferson again:

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."

From Jefferson’s biography:
“...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, ‘Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,’ which was rejected ‘By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.’”

James Madison:

"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

James Madison again:

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

Thomas Paine:

"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)."

Finally, a word from Abraham Lincoln:


The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
-- Abraham Lincoln

[RobertSeattle]

25. Is this her?

http://agent.kw.com/saurage/

[Clintmax]

27. Why yes it is!

Good detective work!

[RobertSeattle]

54. Internet 101

If you have a fairly unique name, be careful what details you post about on the internet!

[gratuitous]

31. Why doesn't she follow the First Commandment?

Deuteronomy 5:6-7:

I am {God's Name}, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me.

By elevating the flag, or the nation, or our national ideology to sacred status, these "super patriots" place their allegiance to their country above their allegiance to God. Even the children of Israel, chosen as they were by God, time and again strayed from the right path, and forgot the First Commandment; time and again, they placed loyalty to their nation above their loyalty to God. What has it garnered for us lately? The Twin Towers, less than eight months into George W. Bush's first term, fell in the greatest attack on American soil by a foreign power since the war of 1812. We have the shame of killing thousands and thousands of innocent civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq. We have the horrible, horrible shame of the tortures and murders at Bagram prison, Abu Ghraib prison, and Guantanamo Bay.

When Jesus said "Love your enemies," I think he probably meant don't kill them. How have we so lost our way, become so enthralled to the false god of our national flag, and so blind to the consequences of our unquestioning elevation of the flag to the status of a new God, that we can't see what is happening before our eyes?

Honor the flag, if you feel so led. But pledge your allegiance only to God in accordance with the First Commandment.

Feel free to copy-and-paste, and hit reply. :evilgrin:

[noamnety]

32. I just messaged you.

:evilgrin:

[Clintmax]

34. Got it and forwarded to you, Iwfern!

[Clintmax]

35. Did you receive my e-mail, Fern?

Just want to be sure!

[noamnety]

38. I did - thanks!

I've just sent a note to their main office:

"I've received a spam/chain letter originating from [e-mail] (Cathy B. Saurage) ranting about God and Government and saying that people who don't agree with her religious and political views need to "shut up and be quiet."

Is that really how you want employees representing your company? It seems unprofessional to me."


http://www.kw.com/kw/ContactUs.do

:)

[Clintmax]

41. You GO, Fern!

Thank you!

[MadAsHell]

33. IIRC the ACLU's sole mission in life is to defend the ...

Bill of Rights. It seems to me that the uber-right should answer for why they want to undermine such an orginization. Why do they hate the bill of rights so much?

[atreides1]

36. Give her this infomation, also

"Above all things, my brethren,swear not...but let your yes be your yes; and your no, no; lest you fall into condemnation." James 5:12

"I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; nor by the earth ofr it is his footstool: nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear
by your head, because you cannot make your hair white or black. But let your yes be yes, and your no, no." Matthew 5:34-37

Explain that if a Christian swears an oath in God's name and fails to uphold that oath, then they have violated the 3rd Commandment, and in failing to uphold the oath they have taken God's name in vain.

[flyarm]

37. send her a copy of the constitution!! and highlight ..

"we the people" !!!!!!!!!!!

[flyarm]

40. ohhh and highlight article 1 section 10 the only reasons for war allowed!

by the constitution...ask her where the wmd are and where the imminent threat was and is!

[Clintmax]

43. EXCELLENT suggestion!

[ClintonTyree]

42. Actually it's more like 94% of Americans believe on god......

however, when asked if they believed in satan (the devil) only 45.4% said that they do. There seems to be a bit of a discrepancy here. If one believes in the essence of good, wouldn't they also have to believe in the essence of evil? :shrug:
I believe that 94% of Americans are inanely superstitious and believe in all sorts of invisible, unprovable nonsense that helps them assuage their fears and responsibilities of life and death. Of course, that's only my opinion.
I've always operated under the assumption that if I'm doing what everyone else is doing, I'm doing something wrong. I'm a little contrary to ordinary, if you get my drift. ;)

[RobertSeattle]

44. Or the 90% who think they are above average

:evilgrin:

[Clintmax]

45. "Ding, Ding, Ding!" You got it, Robert! n/t

[ck4829]

46. The ACLU has done more for Christians than the 'christian' Right will...

ever do.

[JHB]

47. Tell her the Pledge was written by a liberal socialist...

...and did not include the God line until the 1950's, when it was one of several "stick it to 'em" acts: Adding the God line to the pledge, adding "In God We Trust" to our money (it had appeared before, but was not a regular feature of every piece), and in the South, adding the Confederate battle flag as an element of the state flags.

And aside from that:

Just pick something that she's a "14 percenter" on: her denomination's share of the population? Her county's share of the state population? A Redhead? Left-handed?

The exact numbers don't matter, just some case where she'd be on the receiving end of the "shut up and be quiet" dictate. Seems like little chance she'd get the hint, but you never know unless you try.

[Clintmax]

49. Oooo, this is a good idea too!

I have forwarded her original e-mail to her company like Fern did too...I hope she gets terminated!

[JHB]

56. Well, I do NOT hope she gets terminated...

...unless this is a "final straw" as far as her employer is concerned.

It's not like she's the CEO of some company that's gouging and bilking the public for all they can get; she's just a mean-sprited office twit who mass-mailed a political load of crap. She deserves a reprimand for using her work system (thereby effectively dragging her employer into it), but termination is a bit harsh unless she's brought it on herself by other actions.

If I'm going to wish unemployment on someone, they have to really deserve it.

[Rainscents]

48. She calls herself Christian?

Why don't we just
tell the 14% and the ACLU to Shut Up and BE QUIET!!!

Any Christian who tells other people to "Shut Up and Be Quiet" is NOT true Christian!!! JESUS never ever TOLD anyone to shut up and be quiet!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

50. As part of that 14%, I would like to respectfully tell Ms. "Saurage"

To Kindly Go Fuck Herself.

[Clintmax]

51. LOL!

I already have, Impeach! Feel free!

[neuvocat]

52. 86% of Americans believe in God.

Uh, yeah sure they do. And 86% of the people who saw that message believe that statement despite the utter lack of proof contained.

[hootinholler]

53. It's simple. Long, but simple.

We are not a christian nation. Our government was formed as a secular entity. It is encroachments by people like her who have put god into government. I want him to mind his own bidniss.

Some supporting info:

The continental dollar of the Revolutionary War, was designed by Benjamin Franklin in 1776:The mottos on this coin are "Mind Your Business" and "We Are One."

The Tripoli Treaty of 1797 - States unequivocally the US is not a
Christian Nation:
ARTICLE 11.

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense
founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of
enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as
the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility
against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no
pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an
interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

This is confirmed by at least 2 of the Founders. Now remember this one later:

Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress
consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of
religious freedom? In strictness the answer on both points must be in
the negative. The Constitution of the U. S. forbids everything like an
establishment of a national religion. The law appointing Chaplains
establishes a religious worship for the national representatives, to
be performed by Ministers of religion, elected by a majority of them,
and these are to be paid out of the national taxes. Does this not
involve the principle of a national establishment, applicable to a
provision for a religious worship for the Constituent as well as of
the representative Body, approved by the majority, and conducted by
Ministers of religion paid by the entire nation? -- Madison In "Essay on Monopolies,"

Moving right along now... to Jefferson:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. - Thomas Jefferson 1/1/1802

In 1837 Congress passed an Act that specified which mottos and phrases
were allowed to be printed on currency; this included the national
motto, "E Pluribus Unum" (From Many One). The motto was not
required however.

And then the shit storm starts:

* In 1860, during the Civil War, Protestant denominations organize the 'National Reform Association', which aimed to amend the Constitution to "declare the nation's allegiance to Jesus Christ."

* In 1861, Rev. M. R. Watkinson writes Salmon P. Chase, the Secretary of the Treasury, a letter suggesting "the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins". He suggests "God, Liberty, Law" as a motto on a "beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object".

* In 1864, Congress approves "In God We Trust" for use on one-cent and two-cent coins.

* In 1865, Congress acts to place the motto on all coins.

In 1865, with the conclusion of the Civil War, a new Act was passed by Congress to allow the addition of the phrase "In God We Trust" to currency. "In God We Trust" was still not the national motto at this point and was not used on all money. It was simply allowed to be used on coins, and was used mostly on small denomination coins along with the national motto, "E Pluribus Unum."

Round one: Talibornagain.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 it read:

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I like that, simple and to the point.

When the Federal Reserve was created in 1913 "In God We Trust" remained absent from paper currency.

In the 1950s Congress changed the national motto from "E Pluribus
Unum" to "In God We Trust" (which is how “In God We Trust”
became required to be printed of federal money), "So help me God" was
added to federal oaths (despite the fact that the Christian Bible
clearly states not to swear by God or any other person, place, or
thing when taking an oath. Matthew 5:33-37, James 5:12), and "under
God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance.

This was also about the time the Presidential Prayer Breakfast started.

* In 1957, the motto is first used on paper money.

* On July 30, 1956, a bill is passed by congress and signed by the president declaring "In God We Trust" the national motto of the United States.

Round two: Talibornagain.

John F. Kennedy September 12, 1960, address to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association:

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

Clearly, some people still 'get it.'

* In 1970, The constitutionality of the motto is challenged (Aronow v. United States). The Circuit court determined it "has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion".

* In 1979, Madalyn Murray O'Hair of American Atheists challenges the motto (O'Hair v. Blumenthal). The circuit court ruled "the slogan was secular".

* In 1994, The Freedom From Religion Foundation challenged the motto citing it's survey that showed a majority of Americans consider the motto religious. lawsuit was dismissed by the district Court without trial

On September 4, 2002 Michael Newdow was a guest on the popular FOX program Hannity & Colmes. On this program Mr. Newdow stated that he felt that Congressional Chaplains violated the Separation of Church and State. Sean Hannity responded by saying:

"Who hired the first chaplain for congress? ...James Madison in 1789. Did you know that?"

You want to refer to some liberal activist judge..., that's fine, but I'm going to go directly to the source. The author of the Bill of Rights hired the first chaplain in 1789, and I gotta' tell ya' somethin', I think the author of the Bill of Rights knows more about the original intent--no offense to you and your liberal atheist activism--knows more about it than you do."

Which would bring us back to the second paragraph, where Madison
Himself admits the Chaplin is a violation of Church-State separation. BWAAHAAAHAHAAAA Go bark at the moon you friggin Codger!

But, sadly it's come to this:

The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004, introduced into both houses
of Congress on February 11, 2004, "includes the acknowledgment of God
as the sovereign source of law by an official in his capacity of
executing his office."

And with this quote from CNN on March 24, 2004:

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor said there "are so many references to God" in public affairs, noting "In God We Trust" was on U-S currency and coins. She added the Supreme Court opens all its public sessions with the words, "God save the United States and this honorable Court.”

We can expect no help from the Courts with a problem so clearly subversive of the Constitution.

Sad, isn't it? I mean how well versed our public speakers are on the issue? I mean it's like calling a Wiccan a Satanist.

-Hoot

[OneBlueSky]

55. I remember the Pledge BEFORE "under God" was added . . .

those two words weren't even inserted until sometime in the late 50s, when I was in elementary school . . . I actually remember the change, and everyone initially having trouble remembering to include it in our morning recitation . . .