What is the chance of a 12 year old dying during child birth?

[stevans_41902]

I live with a rightwing nutjob and we get into some pretty heated political discussions. When the topic of abortion came up the other day, he believes that a 10-12 year old girl who gets raped should not be allowed to take the morning after pill/get an abortion because "murder is murder." My argument is if he really believed in preserving human life, he should be more worried about the 12 year old dying while giving childbirth than with some cells that dont even resemble a human being. I know I have read before that a 12 yr olds body is not always mature enough to give birth and there is a higher chance she will die if she tries having the baby, but I cannot find any statistics concerning how high that rate is compared to a woman who is physically mature. Please help me find any studies that prove a significant risk for young people giving birth.
Even if there is no statistically significant evidence, I still see his argument as 100% WRONG - it makes me so sad to think of the psychological harm that is done by forcing a little girl to have a baby after her dad or brother raped her.

[ComerPerro]

1. The whole notion of the morning-after pill being murder or abortion

is just bullshit.

[stevans_41902]

4. not when you are a nutjob who believes life starts at conception...

but, yes, i agree with you 100%

[tk2kewl]

5. exactly...

you dispose of more living tissue when you pick your nose than what is in a day old zygote.

[tk2kewl]

2. Is it murder when innocent Iraqi children are shot or bombed

by Americans?

[atreides1]

11. No

That's freedom on the march.

[happyslug]

3. The last report I heard is that a 12 year can give birth safely.

But the "Ideal" age is your early 20s. I will have to check the net for any references.

[spotbird]

10. It is considered a high risk pregnancy

she risks more complications than a 20 year old.

[teenagebambam]

6. Someone else posted...

....the fact that it takes about 24 hours for a sperm to even REACH an egg. So , assuming a "morning-after pill" is literally taken the morning after, it is disposing of an UNFERTILIZED egg. I suppose the freeptards will figure out a way to call THAT murder.

[Desertrose]

14. they will...a "potential" baby...look out guys....next thing

it'll be the sperm police...

Watch what you do....can't waste all those potential babies!!!!!
:sarcasm:

Seriously, I can't imagine a twelve year old would have a pelvis that could easily pass a baby through the birth canal without a LOT of pain and difficulty.

Why in god's name (or anyone's name) would you even want a 12 yo to have to go through with a birth? Babies having babies. We are becoming more a third world country on a daily basis under bushwa!

[formerrepuke]

7. When he grows a uterus he will be qualified to make judgement calls

like "murder is murder".... And, presumably, he doesn't have a daughter.

[stevans_41902]

16. no, luckily he doesnt want children - i hope he never pollutes the world

with more freeptards - I'm sure he would brainwash them about how evil democrats are - the poor kid probably would never have a chance! He thinks im an "evil baby killing liberal" after i told him how i wouldn't hesitate taking the morning after pill if i were to get raped (even though i would not have an abortion if i got pregnant from my boyfriend.) He has vowed to be a virgin till marriage, but he also likes getting trashed into oblivion on a weekly basis and "messes around" with women. I know for damn sure he is a cheapskate and would not be happy to pay child support were he to accidentally get someone pregnant after a night of too much drinking.

[Nikia]

8. I have only seen general articles

That state that the younger that a girl is, the more likely that she or her baby will die during childbirth. The maternal and baby death is significantly less around the age of 20 and stays that way throughout the woman's twenties. I am sorry that I don't have links for you right now.

[sui generis]

9. they are irrational

there is no arguing rationality with them. No logic will ever convince them - logic does not "move" them to emotional excess.

It's wrong that a blastocyst has more rights or even equal rights to an adult human, and especially wrong that we would want make these rules about a fertilized egg carried by a woman and not the male fertilizer too.

Kicking someone in the nuts and masturbation should result in the death penalty!

What kind of world do these loons want to live in?

[Strawman]

12. pointless argument

even if they can technically give birth, what is the point of wasting your breath arguing with a person who thinks a 10 year old who gets raped should be forced to carry a child to term?

[clydefrand]

13. NO CHILD SHOULD BE FORCED TO HAVE A CHILD. PERIOD

Ask that narrow-minded idiot what he would do if the girl was his own and she were raped. And suppose the egg is implanted in the Fallopian tube: Will he allow his daughter to die from that which she surely would? Any female no matter their age would die from an ectopic pregnancy. What if the rapist has HIV Aids which would almost guarantee the offspring would have it? Would he let his own daughter die?

If he thinks murder is murder, ask why in hell we're in Iraq killing thousands of Iraqis in an unjustified war!

[Desertrose]

15. NO CHILD ....and NO WOMAN....

Babies having babies...breaks my heart.

[yankeedem]

17. Please please please let him spout his opinion

Most people are pro-choice, though they believe in restrictions, which are unfortunately unconstitutional because privacy rights are violated to enforce these restrictions.

If the American public saw the lengths that anti-choice zealots will go to deny a woman the right to control her body, they will reject the whole "pro-life" movement.

I really wish Kerry had made this point during the debates on those loaded choice questions- He should have said this:

"You know, abortion is a tragedy for a women, and a failure of society to make a good home for every child. But I really am not going to tell every 12-year-old incest victim that she must carry her fathers child".

[China_cat]

18. I used to work with pregnant teenagers

and the risks go up as the age goes down. While I'm looking for the exact numbers for you, I've found something strange:

The rate of live births has declined from 1990 to 2004 from 20 to 15.1. Maternal deaths have risen from 55 to 82. Very telling.

Most of what I've found have been statistics on the maternal mortality of women over 30. The older you get, the higher your risk. However, the younger you are, the more your risks resemble that of older pregnant women. A pregnant 10/12 year old runs the same risks that a pregnant 50 year old does.

[Lars39]

19. Sorry, couldn't get past the "I live with a rightwing nutjob".

:wtf:

[sui generis]

22. must be some extra good wooggie to make up for that!

just sayin' :shrug: that's the only reason I would keep one for a pet.

[stevans_41902]

23. LOL, its my boyfriends best friend since childhood - he needed a place

to live and my bf is too nice to say no. he is easy to get along with as long as the topic of politics doesn't come up, which has been a lot more since he became aware of my views.

[EC]

20. Maybe, go a different direction

The whole legal arguement is about the rights of privacy of the woman and her doctor. Either a woman has the SAME rights as a man or they aren't equal citizens in the eyes of the law. Which is it? Why does the state have the right to demean a woman's healthcare and privacy rights, just so some fundie nut can tell her what to do with her body, instead of her doctor? And why is it any of their business? And why is it MOSTLY MEN that are out there screaming about murder of fetuses, when THEY ARE THE ONES CAUSING THE PROBLEM since a woman couldn't have gotten pragnant without the male species? Tell him to tell the men to keep their dicks out of women and maybe it'll cut down on possible abortions....it's their responsiblity in the first place...

[Xithras]

21. Biologically a 12 year old IS physically "mature".

A 12 year old is technically fully developed, and while it's certainly higher risk due to the smaller physical size, the actual maternal mortality rate isn't all that much higher (very high risk births in 12 years olds are typically handled by cesaerean). Realistically, females shouldn't have children before the age of 14-15 when the hips have widened out a bit, and it's ideal to wait until the late teens or early twenties when they have reached their widest.

Still, in some of the worlds more remote tribal cultures it's still not uncommon for 12 year olds to marry and have children without modern medical equipment, and the vast majority come through it fine.

Of course, I agree with most of the other posters here that the issue shouldn't have anything to do with a girls physical ability to carry a child. Where I disagree with the other posters is in their assertion that a 10 year old should be able to make her own decisions on the issue. My own daughter is 11 and can't even make a reasoned decision about what color pants to wear or whether to take an asprin...the highlight of her day is making it home to watch Nickelodeon in time for her favorite shows...at that age she's simply not capable of making ANY kind of reasoned decision regarding a major medical issue.

IMO, what needs to happen is that some kind of adjudication needs to be put into place for these types of situations. I can understand the argument that it shouldn't be up to the parents, but at the same time it probably shouldn't be up to the kid. A judge, with the legal power to look at the case and make a decision for the child, should make the call. The child should have the ability to use this court without their parents knowing, if needed, and it should be a dedicated and independent branch of the family court system so that the kids don't have to wait more than a day or two before seeing a judge. It's the only fair solution that protects the rights of the child AND examines the impact of the pregnancy on the girls life.

[Gormy Cuss]

24. Make it personal.

Does he have a child, a niece, a treasured child of another family member who is 11? Do you? Show him a photo of that child and ask him the question again using the child as an example.

There are a lot of absolute anti-choice people out there who reconsider when it becomes personal.

[LeftyMom]

25. Greater than zero

and thus unacceptably high.