anyone here downsizing from 2-income to 1-income family??

[nashville_brook]

i would love to hear your story regardless of if the downsize was due to choice or a lay-off.

-- how are your faring?
-- have you used the time to pursue an interest that wasn't an option when both were working?
-- have you experienced any surprising advantages to 1-income? disadvantages?
-- do you have any advice?

here's our situation:
husband's a software developer. good wage -- should be plenty for any family to do well on. i've been in marketing communications for years, just a means to make money. it's not a profession to love. i started out in journalism and finding work in that field was impossible.

seems like with 2-incomes, much of our life and money was spent of stuff to continue to be good little worker-bees, especially for me since my area demanded lots of status crap (expensive clothes, car, gadgets, entertaining, etc etc). we were always too tired to cook dinner. too tired to work on the house. too busy to keep up with our interests (recording, beer making, gardening, writing, etc). and just bascially unhappy.

i wasn't happy to be laid-off, but i was ready for a break. now i just can't imagine getting back into the grind. it's not worth it.

so, just wondering if anyone is in a similar situation...

[AlCzervik]

1. i stopped working full time about a year ago when my husbands job

relocated and we didn't, he works in Silicon Valley and the housing prices are just way to high so he lives there during the week when he's not out of the country or in Silicon valley he comes home on the weekends. The seperation is tough but we are trying to make the best of it. I watch the money and stopped doing several things, for one i no longer get any magazines delivered to my house and do i not buy them at the store, we stopped Fast Food in December (thank you Morgan Spurlock) and now things like movies are a special treat and when we go we see the matinee so it's $4 less for me to see it as opposed to after 5:00.

As for things like clothes i've been pretty lucky, when i was working i always tried to buy investment non-trendy pieces and i take care of them so clothing hasn't been and issue and thankfully my daughter wears uniforms to school which i always buy a little bigger so they last longer. Overall i'd say right now i'm much less stressed and cutting back on things has been good becasue when we do splurge we pay cash and you appreciate it more.

[nashville_brook]

11. i like how you say "investment" clothes

i've never bought trendy stuff because i like to keep thing for years whether it's a suit or a pair or a pair of floods. the ones i have on right now are 4 years old and i LOVE them.

my husband did the consulting thing, flying around, and boy it sucked. i hated him being away all week. we almost moved to SV a few years ago at he height of the madness but he was offered a job here in nashvegas just in a nick of time.

on eating out -- there was a time when our restuarant spending topped 500 a month. that's more than i spend on groceries. i'm ashamed we spent that much on such silliness -- but at the time it seemed like the "only" thing to do.

the stress issue -- it was killing me. sincerely.

as the kid who never had the "right" clothes -- uniforms rock!

[AlCzervik]

16. i understand the eating out bills completely, ours were ridiculous as well

i went through some bank statements and cc bills and added what we were spending a month between the supermarket and dining out and it was a real eye opener. A lot of the food i bought at the supermarket was "convenience food" which saved me from cooking, now i actually look forward to making dinner and a food co-op opened in my town a few months ago and i love going there.

You sound like you're on the right track and enjoying your life more and I'm happy for you. :toast:

[nashville_brook]

65. thankyou for the kudos! i love your avatar btw -- one of the best

characters ever created!

below i commented on our eating costs -- see post #57. oh the shame!

[European Socialist]

2. yes

But we are living off one crappy retail job. Looking for work is fighting for crumbs-and then not even getting that. So we have been treading water for four years. I agree that having someone at home makes life much easier.

[nashville_brook]

14. omg -- retail is not easy

and still it's easier with one at home? very interesting.

before his lucky break into software -- my husband worked retail selling cigars at the height of the craze. he loved it b'c it was easy at the time. but the pay was horrible. i was also in a basically retail job and never cried so much in my life. the general public are assholes and i have thin skin, i suppose.

[Cleita]

3. Husband died. SS immediately chopped off his SS and then

restored half of it after I applied for it. The problem is my bills are the same, rent, utilities, car payment. I am getting by but there has been a lot of belt tightening on my part.

[Throckmorton]

5. Wife died, age 40,

was a substitute teacher, but worked almost every day, no benefits thou.

Minimal Life Insurance, thanks to my employer selling the plant and the new owner dropping spousal life insurance in 2002, right when she was diagnosed with cancer.

I do get SS for the kids, but thats about 50% of what she made working.

I'm doing OK, fortunately my Mortgage is small. But most of the SS payment goes to pay for childcare (one is 10 the other 8). An expense I didn't have before her death.

[Midlodemocrat]

7. So sorry for your loss, Throckmorton.

Just a thought. Have you looked into getting Medicaid for the children for insurance? I was told that if a child is getting survivor's benefits, they are eligible.

You could save a little money that way by only paying for your health insurance.

[Cleita]

13. That's tough, Throckmorton. Glad you can squeak by.

If we ever get these criminals out of our government hopefully we can get some reps who pass decent legislation for the people not the corporations.

[nashville_brook]

19. i never even considered

the death of a spouse as a potential part of the equation. i am so damn sorry.

even though i don't have kids, childcare is big concern. i wish there were a way to band together and make childcare (and not just biding time, but real mentoring) available in a cooperative model. teaching gardening or life skills. how to work on cars or do carpentry. you know -- stuff that comes in handy but that you don't learn in school.

[Cleita]

21. Other countries have state run childcare that is free.

They are run by childcare professionals with credentials like our teachers have. There is no reason we can't have that here. I mean all the Scandavian countries and France do that I know of and I'm sure many more of the European countries I missed do too.

A country that helps its workers and its parents, I believe will have a better economy in the long run. Also, most developed countries put a premium on providing a quality education to all children regardless of their economic circumstances so that they grow up to be productive adults.

[nashville_brook]

26. i know -- this drives me batshit! this country is about as family-friendly

as a whirling hall of knives!

i have to run some errands, or else i would let loose on this big time. it's such bullshit. we are forced into this crazy rat-race and expected to just let the kids take care of themselves OR pay big money for childcare. omg, it's insane! the impact it has on the poor is freaking inhumane. oh... must resist urge to rant...

[nashville_brook]

15. i am so sorry...

i grew up with my grandparents and they were cut off from SS more than once. what a mess.

hang in there!

[lukasahero]

4. Yes but in the opposite direction

My husband got laid off about two months ago. Since he's been out of work, his blood pressure has dropped considerably and he has been working like a maniac around the house and yard. He's now taking courses at a local university and confessed to me just last night that if it weren't for that little thing called money, he'd be very happy to retire now and forever. :)

It's one thing to live mostly on my salary but it's another thing entirely to try to live AND fund 2 retirements on it. I've been trying to encourage him to do a career switch rather than look for the same type of work again. I'd rather see him retire though than see his blood pressure skyrocket again.

[nashville_brook]

22. opposite direction as in gender roles?

that should matter one bit! here in nashville i know plenty of house hubbies.

blood pressure, stress, etc is no joke. it's crazy to literally trade your life and health for a paycheck. on the other hand, a job you LOVE can keep you alive.

i don't know where you live or how the math would work out, but with real estate value going up the way it is in our neck of the woods, having someone renovating and working on the house works into our equation -- makes good economic sense.

it makes me smile to think of your guy being all giddy working around the house with low blood pressure. reminds of the men in my family. they LOVE the work around the house!

[lukasahero]

25. No, I didn't mean gender roles,

I meant I wasn't the one without the job, so, while I could relate to your situation, I couldn't relate myself to your feelings about not going back to work as I'm not the one at home. Sorry for the confusion.

We're in Mass west of Boston (recently called one of the most expensive areas for housing in the country). Luckily, we're way ahead on the mortgage payments and not looking to leave any time soon. But we have some wear and rot (the house is 40+ years old) so his being home and able to do that stuff made a big diff. We've always lived "conservatively" (in the GOOD sense of the word) so the income thing is ok for us for now but we are thinking about retirement. That's our only concern.

But it makes me smile too to think of him happy and healthy again. I'd rather have him for many more years than have his income for just a few. :loveya:

[leftofthedial]

6. I've always had two parallel careers

one in music and one in technology. More often than not, the technology career paid the bills and the music career fed the soul. Basically, I worked ALL the time.

For the past five years, since the bushturd's Enronomy destroyed the technology industry here, I've relied solely on music, which pays far less and far less consistently (despite me being allegedly "successful"), believe it or not.

The pressures--financial and time and travel, etc.--put the finishing strains on an already challenged 27-year marriage. So now, my soon-to-be-ex and I are both facing greatly diminished earning capacity and a much different lifestyle. I truthfully do not mind (other than the financial damage that is being done--I actually welcome a lower-income lifestyle), but I regret the effect it is having on our kids, both due to the failed marriage and the reduced standard of living.

The main direct problem with the loss of income is not being able to get out from under an unsustainable mortgage. Once I can do that, a simpler, more grounded life less focused on the rat race (in both careers) will be a good thing.

[nashville_brook]

24. good luck with that mortgage... my husband was a traveling musician

when we met back in the 80s. we were able to live on his gig-pay at the time b/c we were kids and living was el-cheapo. we moved to nashville to try and break the band into the biz which was a lot like trying to teach a cat to swim. didn't work. nashville didn't understand -- it's was like alt country/arena rock. freakig great performing band. they hated recording -- except for my husband who likes the engineering side. everyone in nashville seems to have the 2-career track going on. a little music and lots of day job. none of our band is playing right now though. broken hearts? not enough time? not sure why.

shit-dog... best of luck. you will enjoy the simpler life, i promise.

[leftofthedial]

30. I spend about a third of my time in Nashville

my publisher and most of my peer group is there

If it weren't for my kids here, I'd probalby live there

I have personally lived an exceedingly cheap and simple life for years. I regret no longer being able to support my kids the way they are accustomed. Maybe it will be good for them to simplify too.

[nashville_brook]

55. i bet we know some of the same people :)

nashville is a great place to live. it wasn't the right town for my husband's music -- we should have gone to Austin -- but it's a wonderfully easy place to live. when we moved here we bought our house before the market went nuts. we got lucky. most of our peer group (musicians) from upper east tennessee moved at the same time and eventually moved into our neighborhood (inglewood). we can walk to friends' houses! we're a little old for being fixtures in the music clubs anymore, so the sleepiness of the performing rock scene isn't a big deal. we're happy to sit in the backyard, burn torches, record a few times a year and watch everyone's kids grow. :) i could weep -- we got SO lucky getting out of the mountains when we did. check out http://www.brianandthenightmares.com -- that was the band in the 80s. their thing we did here was called The Shapeshifters -- the worst name EVER! i wanted them to go with Smoke Wagon... as in Tombstone... "skin that smoke wagon." the songwriter, Brian is a freaking genius. he's got the same genetic material that woodie guthrie had -- you know, the ability to give words to lowlife, revolutionary stuff without being didactic or sappy. it's masculine on him. he gave the biz-critters here fits b/c he worn a black texas-style hat and they couldn't square that with the sound of the music. it had always been his signature way before all the "hat acts" came along. oh, it was frustrating. plus -- they are mountain boys -- couldn't do the "networking" crap so it fell to me. yuck! i hated it. it was so easy back when they were kids and just riding around in the van from gig to gig.

i totally digressed! kids adjust -- well, as long as they aren't teenagers. we all grew up in poverty and had no idea we were poor -- until later. i used to go to Katuah gatherings (biodiversity group) and everyone would have their kids and i would marvel that all these people got along so well living off the grid and all. it had never occurred to me that was possible. i remember conversations with acitivsts about having young kids with them at all the demonstrations and gatherings, etc. that's when i learned the phrase, "kids adjust. they do what you do. they don't know any better." those kids were the best i've ever known. could start fires without matches; knew how to cultivate gardens; could drum up a freaking storm! it's a totally different lifestyle -- these people lived in groups, mostly and had a support-system so if someone was working in the garden or taking stuff to the farmers' market, there was a group that stayed around the house with the kids doing educational stuff -- not just watching TV. no tv to watch. :)

my original post comes from a project i've been working on since college. i want to find a way to create this kind of atmosphere in a neighborhood setting. it seems to me that not being off the grid should make this easier, not more difficult. and a community of musicians seems to be a ready-made system of support. we've been doing it for years in supporting the music. why not in support of life. like combining the cooperative model used by Dead Reckoning with a model of living. you have a money-making enterprise (instead of farming... making records... or making software or website development) and the group works together for that as well as childcare, house care, gardening, etc. i've called this Homeboy. The Homeboy Way.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. We chose to be a once income family and just get by on that rather

than put our kids in daycare. I just really wanted to stay home and be a mommy. :)

[nashville_brook]

27. good for you!

i'm a doggie-mommy, but if i had kids, i'd totally be home with them.

i started to put my rant on about this above -- daycare is too damn expensive! and you can't help but wonder and worry what is going on when you aren't around.

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. Well for me it made sense. Why put my own kids in day care so that I can

take care of other peoples' kids when I teach? :)

[nashville_brook]

56. yep -- that really cracks it wide open! that's my basic thought --

oh, i read too much marx in school -- but it makes no sense to me to trade your labor for tokens which can be exchanged for stuff. just use your damn labor yourself. no middleman needed.

[livetohike]

9. Moved to CA with my husband's new job in 2001

and I am still unemployed. We have been married for 30+ years and were always a two income couple (with short periods of unemployment due to layoffs).

At first, it was more of an emotional/mental thing for me since I have always worked. However, now that I am going on 4.5 years without a job, I am used to it.

I wonder how I ever worked full time and went to grad school full time and had time to do everyday chores!

At times, I wish I was still working and preparing for retirement. My husband wants to retire next year and that is fine with me. :-)

[nashville_brook]

43. i have friends who claim they'd not know what to do with themselves

all day at home. i tell them you get used to it fast. days FLY by. i can't believe it's almost 5 today! gotta run and plan dinner!

[IrateCitizen]

10. We're doing it so I can go back to school full-time...

... to finish my education toward a teaching certificate. I'm giving up a job as an engineer in order to do it.

My wife just finished up her masters in counseling and switched from teaching to guidance. We sat down and figured out that it would be tight, but we could do it financially for me to go back to school full-time.

I'll have to let you know how it goes as soon as we start, which is in another 15 days.... :D

[nashville_brook]

40. wow, good luck! i would love to teach...wouldn't see that as a "job"

at all. at least not in the sense of the horrible corporate retardation i usually find myself in.

[IrateCitizen]

49. I'm sick of being a nameless, faceless cog in the corporate machine...

I work for an engineering company with over 30K employees worldwide. Every day at my job is a mind-numbing and soul-crushing experience. If I were to try to do this for 40 years of my life, I'm certain I would end up a miserable and embittered man.

I don't delude myself that teaching will be a perfect job day-in and day-out. I grew up with two parents who taught public school, and my wife taught had been a teacher prior to just switching to guidance counseling. But it will certainly be a job with a lot more meaning than my current one.

[nashville_brook]

53. my uncle worked for a big engineer company -- for most of his career

it was a decent place. then the bean counters came and it was all downhill from there. he hated it -- loved his field and his research, but the "managers" made it impossible to love it anymore. he took early retirement. happy now.

i have a friend who took a master's teacher program (her masters was in history) and was hired into a private school setting -- montessori. tiny classes. wonderful building. lots of support from parents. now her two boys attend and she loves it. i listen to her stories about the kids -- exceptional kids! and i'm like, you really got lucky!

i taught after-school art for a few years. my favorite kids were always from the really poor schools up in the mountains. they were the ones ready/anxious to learn. the suburban kids wore me out. but i loved it. i just paid off my student loans for my philosophy degree and masters work (ebt). i can't do any more school. it's not in the cards. i would totally take a job teaching without a cert, tho. maybe another after-school program. i live in an urban neighborhood, next door to a middle school. i see the kids walking home after school and i KNOW they are mostly latchkey. sometimes they stop and pick fights in my front yard, or see me working on the garden and come and talk. one girl recently said she was going to join a gang. that it was "time," she was old enough. my heart SANK. she was so pretty and smart -- just looking for a "family."

when i was a teenager i was a little delinquent. got into some trouble and the court ordered me into an after-school program that really turned me around. it was called B.O.A.T. -- which stood for something having to do with Behavior Mod and Training. It was run by a counselor who taught us how to SAIL! it was very cool. i think i'd like to do something like this -- work with kids on a skill while doing goal-setting and life-skill stuff.

[malmapus]

12. Can't afford to be on 1 income =(

I wish we could, I hate having to ask my fiancee to take up work and she refuses to let me take up a 2nd job. I hate this GREAT economy we're having. :(

[Carni]

17. Been there did that and it sucked

Worked at the family operated biz for many years (without pay basically) it hasn't worked since moron man got in office.

Granted I was still *working* but not generating an income like I was when I was getting a paycheck from someone else.

I am working again now for someone else again.

IMO you have to pull in some major bucks to make it on one income.

[Ron Mexico]

18. It depends on your definition.

My father-in-law is dying, and my wife left her job to spend as much time as possible with him before the inevitable comes. We still have a second income at present, but it comes from me and doesn't match the one we lost.

When she got her job, we upgraded our living conditions a bit, and to be honest we overextended ourselves. The simple fact of the matter is that we can't afford to live like we do on my one income alone. So now while she doesn't work, I work a second job in a convenience store on nights and weekends. We still barely make ends meet as it is now, and her getting her job back after her father dies is not a guarantee.

Moral of the story: if you're doing okay on one income and your spouse gets a kickass job, put the money in the bank rather than running out and getting yourself the most expensive place your new combined income can provide.

[nashville_brook]

41. AMEN to that! we did the same. overextended. had to reel it in.

according to quicken, we have a little ways to go -- but we're close. very close.

it's so easy when you're young to think "it'll be okay...we 'need' to do this...blahblahblah" but savings is the way to go. the peace of mind is totally worth it!

[verdalaven]

20. I stayed home for two years

It did make our life easier. Our schedule was never a nightmare, which it can become when you are a family with a dual income and going in five different directions at once. Unfortunately, we couldn't afford to live without two incomes, so I am back to work now.

I say that if you can afford to stay home and it is really what you want to do, then do it.

[nashville_brook]

28. i don't know how long we'll be able to do it -- but i'm using the time

to do book proposals and finish some projects i've been obsessed with since college. who know -- i might sell something. probably not but at least i can say i tried.

i also said this above -- the stress was truly killing me.

[verdalaven]

35. Yes Try!

I'm on book three coming out by the end of the year (I think). It's not a lot of money, at least it hasn't been for me, but it is completely fulfilling.

Good luck!

[newportdadde]

23. We did that two years ago with our first child

my wife had been a teacher and I'm a programmer. It wasn't too bad, when we got married my wife was still in school so we started out as a one income couple and when she started teaching we just kept living like a one income family and banked her income as emergency money.

Its actually turned out to be really good because we just found out we are expecting twins :). Doing the math... daycare will be 530 or so a WEEK for two newborns and one 2 year old so it would make no sense for her to teach anyways as the daycare cost alone would be much more then she made teaching.

We are paying off heavy on the house and should have it done in 6 years, which as the sole income earner is my biggest personal financial stress, we also save 10% of our pretax income for retirement.

Some things we have found helpful:

1. Stay away from debt, no credit cards you can't pay off at the end of the month, no car payments, no furniture payments, nothing nada if you can help it.

2. If it ain't broke don't buy a new one. This goes for cars(especially cars), TV(I really want a new flat screen TV but my 12 year old one works fine), couch, carpet etc.

3. Try to watch misc expenses, for us this has mean a pull back in hobbies, no vacations to speak of, very limited eating out etc.

4. Set aside some money each year and work on your house, painting, a little landscaping, rot repair if an older house etc. You can't afford to do it all but you can do small chunks at a time. Do some weekend scraping on the outside and patch up small areas that need paint etc(get a color chip match so your patchwork isn't visible). Maintain the value of your home.

5. Try to find interesting ways to save money. I've recently switched almost all of my bills over to EFT via bankdraft or credit card charge. Saves on stamps(I know not much but it adds up) and it saves my time to write out checks. I also use a credit card that gets 1% cashback on everything and 5% on gas and groceries. I charge ALL of our expenses on it I can to get the cash back, including water bill, doctor bills etc.

[nashville_brook]

42. credit cards are evil. we use ours for emergencies and carry a balence

not too much -- but enough to get hit with interest.

i like your approach of using the card to pay everything and pay off the balence at the end of the month. neat! the cashback is way cool too. i'll mention this to my husband.

house upkeep is our hobby for the most part. painting the exterior is our next big chore. we're waiting until the weather is cooler, but i've already bought the paint at a half-off sale. work you do on the house is an investment. it's good money to spend and it's always best to do it yourself for the pride and knowing you've done it better than hiring someone.

[mtnester]

29. We are about to start our own business

the company my hubby is working for (18 years) has an asshole boss that is about two steps from having the doors padlocked by (pick one...government, debtors, courts) because he should be a hands off manager, takes the money, spends it, spits in the eye of zoning, sales tax, etc.

So, at the blessed age of 45, my hubby is going out on his own. It will be my salary that we count on starting September 1st.

I am scared shitless.

[nashville_brook]

36. woohoo! good luck! what kind of biz?

[mtnester]

46. Service and installation of garage doors and openers

everyone's got one, they will break. We live in one of the fastest growing areas of Ohio, and have seen Mid Ohio Regional Planning's population projections, and we should be OK. Just as in any business, we are planning on no pay/profit the first year.

Fingers crossed..one man and a truck!

[nashville_brook]

48. that's a great biz!

we just put garage doors on and have the openers sitting in the basement. waiting...

[sabra]

32. Yep, we just had our second kid

I don't think it's sunken in yet, that I have 3 "dependants" :-)

[BigEdMustapha]

33. It takes discipline

My wife quit her job as an RN to stay home with our children - we decided to homeschool them when they were pre-school age. We just have to be disciplined and stick to the budget each month and it works fine. Like others have said, limiting the eating out and other "frivolous" expenses and it can work.

Advantages - spending more time as a family (I am fortunate to be able to work from home), less debt, less hectic scheduling

Disadvantages - no new car or TV or whatnot, no big vacations

Advice - stick with it if you like it - but do not be ashamed to go to work again if that is your choice

[nashville_brook]

39. i know -- the shame would suck!

we got rid of cable a long time ago b/c never watched it except for The Daily Show, which i miss, but not to the tune of 50 bucks a month. i mentioned this in another post, we have never been about to do "vacations" because of family obligations. time off is spent helping the aging parents. not a big deal tho b/c we are perfectly happy sitting on the porch and cooking out with friends. plus -- i HATE to fly. won't do it. i would like to drive out to Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon, tho!

[latebloomer]

34. Ever read "Your Money or Your Life"?

Talks about the very issues you mention-- that we sell our life energy for $$ and wind up spending a LOT of it on transportation, dry cleaning, eating out and vacationing because we're SO tired and stressed from our jobs, etc etc. Th authors quit their jobs, lived very frugally on investment income and spent their time doing volunteer work and creative pursuits.

In our case, I am the breadwinner and my husband stays home with the kids and is working on some interests that hopefully will eventually lead to making $$. He HATED his corporate job and was burning out in every way possible. He is MUCH happier and more balanced, and I am glad to be rid of a lot of the household drudgery. Luckily I make a fair income, so, although we have had to cut back some, we are doing pretty well.

[nashville_brook]

37. thanks for the tip -- this sounds just like us!

for me the stress was adding up in medical bills, so i totally understand the sentiment of "your money or your life!"

both of our professions are the kind you take home with you. his is a lot more fulfilling! and i love doing the housework, although i suffer from constant guilt about whether or not i'm doing enough. i write and research during the day and have to remind myself to get away from desk and "get moving."

in terms of vacations -- HA! we've had maybe one or two in the 20 years we've been together. we take care of aging parents or just REST when we have time off. mostly we take care parents: working on their house, helping with healthcare needs and just being there for them.

[pitohui]

44. be aware, as far as medical stress goes

one of the authors of Your Money or Your Life died in his 50s

i'm not convinced that not working is less stressful than working

living on a low income takes a very complex set of skills, being poor costs a lot of money, esp. if you do get sick

several studies i've seen suggest it's more stressful not to work, ask any unemployed person, ask the stay at home mom if she feels relaxed, she'll laugh in yr face

[IrateCitizen]

50. If you are able to live a spiritually fulfilling life on a daily basis...

... then it eliminates the need to "get away" by taking vacations. For most of us, going away someplace else for a week or two each year is the result of having daily lives that make us terminally unhappy. We slave away at our jobs for 50 weeks a year, utterly miserable, to finance those two weeks of extravagance and getting away.

In the long run, it's much easier to simply do something with your life that brings you a good deal of satisfaction day-to-day. When you can do this, you don't feel the need to "get away" like you do when your life consists of doing mostly things you don't like to do.

As for Your Money or Your Life, I highly recommend it. It's a veritable bible for teaching you how to revolutionize the way that you perceive work and money, and to change your life around those perceptions as a result.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

38. no we had to upsize...the kids got jobs to help keep the lights on

and buy their own school clothes and supplies this year ...they are 14 and 16 year olds both Had to work ...WHERE IS THIS RISING ECONOMY THAT I KEEP HEARING BUSH TALK ABOUT????

[progressoid]

45. We've been doing it for a few months but

that will have to change pretty soon or we will have to make some radical changes in our lives.

We don't live extravagantly, but all of the little things are adding up. And, the big items (mortgage, utilities etc) YIKES!

[nashville_brook]

62. one thing on utilities that helped us was the "averaged" payments.

our gas bill is huge b/c we have a gas furnace and prices have been climbing. we started the averaged billing and it really made a difference.

also got a hybrid car. we are saving almost 200 a month on gasoline. not to mention the car is much cheaper than the one we traded, which took premium gas. and the insurance.

insurance is a way to save money, generally. if you can get Farmer's insurance -- i think that's the wrong word.. but there's a big savings to have on insurance if you shop it around.

if you have a 7+ percent interest rate on your mortgage, refinance and lock in to a lower rate. it might lower your overall payment.

other things we did:
cancelled cable (never watched it)
cancelled audible subscriptions
use the library instead of buying books (i really had a problem with this... some would say addiction)
buy coffee at costco (this, amazingly saves us 50 bucks a month!)
cancelled our phone and security alarm (i'm always home anyway -- and we use our cells for everything -- the only calls we got on the home phone were marketing calls)
cancelled the pest control -- i hate pest control anyway
use netflix instead of renting at Hollywood (we never go to the movies)
i buy my pet meds online -- big savings compared to the vet!
reassessed our meds... husband doesn't need his reflux med anymore b/c of the lowered stress.
buy wine by the box -- we had acquired quite a wine bill and found some really wonderful CHEAP varieties which are just FINE for dinner. no more 100 package store bills.


i know there's lots more.... this is just off the top of my head.

[sweetheart]

47. So much has to do with the energy of the whole

It seems that the dynamic of family is a complex interaction of
energies between individuals, and that the greater the "power" of this
symbiosis, the more money the household makes in its careers.

If the "income" partner eats quality home cooked and home grown food,
they are gonna feel healthier in their work. If they are loved and
their household in order, it balances out the spirit, that the working
spouse's goodwill and happiness quotient give them a creative background
for work.

To say that the "housewife" side of the job is any less complex than the
income side is a deception. The housewife must find a way to derive a
fulfilling long term life from what most career people think of as
"retirement". As in, with so much time on your hands, how do you manage
it, or do you form crafts businesses, attend university or raise
children or animals. The creativity of this non-economic spouse builds
the "power" of the household, and depending entirely on individual
circumstances, and the trust in a relationship a household can come
off better for 1 income than 2. One partner lives long term and the
other short term, that the periods of the cycles balance out and the
whole is greater than the individual parts.

Many relationships are not this symbiotic. Then going single income
can just create stress, feelings of inferiority, abuse even when
a non-earning partner deals with economic impotence, and/or the
economic partner takes advantage of the power situation. It comes
down to, IMO, the trust and goodwill in the relationship, and the
partner's faith in the spirit.

[nashville_brook]

60. i think you've really got a big thought here -- the symbiosis

we are so much more balanced now. john is way more happy at work and i KNOW it's not b/c work has changed. it's b/c home has changed. i'm happier and we take better care of ourselves. we don't do the happy hour thing to soothe our stress. we instead eat a healthy home-cooked meal and enjoy each other's (and the dogs') company. we sit on the porch. have friends over.

my side is very complex. home "economics" is a big job!

one of the things i've been working on is reeling spending on food. i'm careful about what i buy -- use Costco when it's appropriate -- and go to the farmer's market. grow my own herbs. take constant stock of what we have and keep everything maintained and in good working order. make sure everything is where it can be found quickly. weed out things we don't need anymore. etc etc --

this is all stuff that i never thought i would like doing. i had to learn the skills and was really LUCKY and blessed that i had a relative who took the time to teach me these things when i was a teenager and wasn't very appreciative. i'm trying to pay this forward with my friends' kids, especially this one little boy with aspergers. he has such the attitude i had when i was his age (minus the pot-smoking!). the other day we were hanging out and i was doing my kitchen routine. i noticed the garbage can stunk so i washed it out, dried it and put it back. he FREAKED! "i've NEVER heard of anyone cleaning a GARBAGE can! it's a garbage can... it's supposed to smell!"

ah! a lesson he will take with him!

[cmf]

51. I was out of work for a year during the tech bust in 2001

My husband and I had just married. I think that it made it easier to cope, since we hadn't really experienced the whole DINK lifestyle. Even though our income was about 1/3 of what it is now (H has been promoted several times since then), it was a nice lifestyle. We just didn't buy unnecessary things. I learned to cook everything from scratch, which I still do now even though I work. It's much healthier and cheaper. We did inexpensive things to entertain ourselves - went camping instead of trips to the city, rented videos instead of going to the movies, entertained at home instead of going out to eat, etc. The real advantage to me not working was that the house was always nice and organized. I did have a part time job for fun money and for saving my sanity. I also had a lot of time to pursue other interests and volunteer opportunities, which I do not have time for anymore.

[nashville_brook]

57. my husband did a year-to-date on Quicken comparing

our restaurant expenses this year and last year-to-date. he was telling me this last nite as i was cooking dinner and he said "just guess how much we spent last year to date on eating out...."

i said... 1,500 dollars.
guess again...

okay, 2,500 bucks.
nope.

3,500?
not even close!

5,000?
you're almost there....

5,500 dollars. last year we spent 5,500 bucks on eating out between January and August. that doesn't include lunches (don't know why, but he has another column for that). also doesn't inlcude going to the bar, which also has its own column.

this year... to date we have only spent 400 eating out. i get sick thinking about it. i'd go to work at 8 and not get home until 6, sometimes 7. i'd try to do mega-cooking on sunday... use the crockpot... but still... we just didn't have the time or energy to cook and the money was in the account so why not spend it?? fuck. i can think of a million things i could do with 5,500 bucks! and that's not for the whole year. 8 months.

when we met i had one cookbook -- Laurel's Kitchen. i made everything from scratch. i even baked our bread... yummy, heavy whole grain healthy stuff. i grew sprouts. made tortillas. we had such a good life. no money -- wonderful life! rent was 200 a month in a wonderful old spanish structure with a canopied balcony, french doors and hardwood floors. 14 foot ceilings. together we lived on 800 a month which included what little i made as a waitress on weekends at a little eclectic music club. maybe 30 bucks on a usual weekend. more if an act like Disappear Fear played (the lesbians were the BEST tippers! bluegrass fans were the worst... drank ice tea all nite).

when we started "making money" we went NUTS! cars, mostly. husband bought a lot of music equipment which is more like an investment in his "other" job. but crazy stuff like a couple of 12-string basses. my spluges were books and magazines. i spent as much as 200 a month on just magazines! i was in publishing (art director), so again, it was in my field... but SEE! that's the damn thing! we spent the money on our jobs! computer equipment, technology -- crap for our careers. even the cars fall into that category b/c you think you need to display your success in order to attract more success. and also to soothe your soul when you can finally leave the office -- you get to hop into the ride, put the top down and race to the restaurant to meet the husband. yuck yuck yuck. i am so ashamed.

[seabeyond]

52. after first baby i became a stay at home

now kids are older i think about going to work. i have also created a light filled, easy going home enviroment. i do everything. when husband comes home he doesnt have to "help" with cooking laundry ect..... now kids are a little older i even took over mowing yard, a 3 hour job, (on a riding mower).

i could go back to work and add some money to our account, but.......i just cannot see it is worth it. for the little money i would bring in, we would go from having a lot of leisure time, both he and i, too working from getting up to going to bed.

also, statisically it is shown a person that works full time that doesnt have to focus on the daily stuff, sick kids, dry cleaning, grocery shopping, household chores..... makes a significant percentage above the person who has to share duties. they can totally focus on job.

i cant see changing what we have created for a more rushed and busy lifestyle. we are happy as we are now. the little money, higher tax brackett it would put us in as a wife working, isnt worth it.

[nashville_brook]

54. this is very close to our situation minus the kids -- me being able to

take care of "life at home" really takes the stress off of him. he hates the house stuff -- feels like it robs him of his life. i love it. love mowing the lawn, taking care of "fabrics," food, organizing.

when i was a know-it-all teenager, my goal was to be a "professional" woman. i really devalued the housewife thing. thought it was anti-feminist. this served me well to get out of poverty -- but once i got "out" my attitude changed. the thing about the home being non-feminist is a mistake (but i'm not here b/c it's my only option -- big diff). i'm here b/c i LOVE it and i know it's a huge luxury! i have my aunt to thank for showing me the light on this. she took me in for my last couple of years of high school. she had been a stay-at-home mom with three kids all her years. i was horrible to her and put my teenage angst to work on the subject of her stay-at-home status. she stuck with me and taught me things that, as i grew, i realized were way more important than some of the things i was focused on. things like taking care of your stuff. instead of being a habitual consumer, have what you NEED and do the work to care for it. volunteer for your party. get involved in the community. make friends. write letters. cultivate a life worth living. be gentle. shop at thrift stores. reuse. recycle. make things from scratch.

when i was working i was still doing all the housework. i'd do all the grocery shopping during lunch hour (sneaking my bags into the fridge at work or having a cooler in the car). having to make calls from my office -- never fun. always feeling robbed b/c my job got in the way of our life. never really resting on the weekend b/c we were too busy doing our housework or taking care of parents.

we are right at the point where a job that would pay what i'm worth would put us in that higher tax bracket. i never planned on that being the case, and it makes a difference in terms planning. right now the only way i'd go back to work would be to serve a greater good -- not for money.

[seabeyond]

59. yep yep yep

still have to go to validation of my "job" often. even with myself. ultimately i keep coming to why? why? change it. has been working for a decade. gosh just to the point of going on the vacation, getting all set up and in order, for hubby to just step into with ease. my boys said at the table the otehr day....when there cousin said it was time for me to go to work. no NO dont want mom too. k. i wont. they want me to pick them up, hang out with them, listen to them go on and on and on about their day. maybe even a hug or two or three

all is good. what works for you

and i say thnak you,.....for being able to have this. not guilt, or feeling unworthy, just a thank you.

i too can get into charity, and what interest me, and not for pay. now kids are both firmly in all day school, i am asking, whaT DO I WANT TO DO.

but, it isnt going to be something that takes all my time.

[democrat_patriot]

58. Wifes pregnant - seriously thiniking about it.

Going over expenses and budget. If we can do it we will - at least for a few years. Unless we have another child.

[nashville_brook]

63. don't miss your child's development! do it! you won't regret it!

it's only a few years and they go FAST.

congratulations and best wishes -- all that! i think my time has passed for kids. i'm going to have to give birth to a book or something -- but when i read your post my mother instinct just popped up! the early development is the most important. they need to be held and hear the voice of their parents. and you need to experience their life. do what it takes! imagine the saddness of sitting at work while they are at childcare...i've seen too much of that when i was working. it broke my heart. i was raised by my grandmother and she was with me 100 percent of the time. i think she had a lot of regrets for not being able to spend time with her kids when they were young.

when we were all younger and living in the mountains, work was SCARCE. a lot of my friends stayed home with their children because they simply couldn't find a job. some took food stamps, some were offered help from their parents. no one regrets it! no matter how difficult is was.

[caligirl]

61. In bay area and on one good solid income is working out ok.

We made a choice that one of us needed to be home to keep up with our two sons and the house etc. Then our youngest was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes and a year later both were diagnosed with celiac. So I remain at home as it is the only way to keep our diabetic child safe and keep close tabs on his glucose/insulin needs. Its also the only way to insure he is safe(the pump and diabetes training of teachers and admin has been the key) at a school that put this family through hell to insure his education and safety at school.

We are now putting the oldest one through a UC (senior year and going well) company stock pourchase and sell(10%) has helped with tuition.The second one will be in college in a year and is doinf exceptionally well.In the bay area it seems every one works one or two jobs. The kids go home to empty houses no matter if their parents are big money earners or low income earners. I couldn't do that to my kids. We afforded the choice by careful decisions, cutting back, and company stock purchase that we can sell at a profit.

[nashville_brook]

64. i know it was coming home to an empty house after school when all the

trouble happened when i was a kid. MY parents were home -- so i went to friends' houses where there wasn't a parent. we did lots of "fun" things like breaking open thermometers and playing with mercury.

i think it's insane that kids come home to empty houses -- not just for the getting-into-trouble aspect. this is the time when you need to be learning the OTHER stuff from your parents...how to take care of yourself. do laundry. cook. have adult conversations. there's a lot more to "education" than what is taught in school. for kids with health issues it's especially important to learn to take care of their bodies.

you guys sound a lot like some in my extended family. it's not the easiest choice, but you do it for the little ones, finding a way to make it work.

[mod mom]

66. After the '04 election in Ohio, I closed my business of 17+ years and am

now a full time activist working on election reform and investigating the '04 (and now '05-District 02) theft of elections in Ohio. Too much evil to sit back and do nothing.

[caligirl]

67. Have you seen the San Diego thread today? I'll look it up and repost.

[caligirl]

68. link to san diego vote

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=141&topic_id=13511