We are going to have to shoot our way out of Iraq.

[chieftain]

Those of us who opposed this mindless adventure into Iraq knew it would end badly, but I fear that the end game is going to be far more horrific than anticipated. These lying, incompetent fools believe that the constitution will be a marker toward peace and stability. They are as wrong about this as they have been about everything else to do with this debacle.
Whether a constitution is written or the process breaks down irretrievably, the inevitable result will be the disintegration of the artificial state that was known as Iraq.
Bush and the neo cons have placed our military in the most precarious position imaginable. The risk of being caught in the middle of a civil, holy war while fighting an insurrection is high and grows higher everyday. Our service people are tired, our equipment is breaking down and our supply lines are stretched thin.
God help our troops, because their leaders have failed them miserably.

[rzemanfl]

1. I have been expecting a Stalingrad ending to this for a while

now.

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. It's being done as mini-Stalingrad's slowly over years and years.

[teryang]

2. The massive waste of resources involved in this conflict

...is the end game.

[chieftain]

15. It took years for our armed services to recover from Vietnam.

It is going to take years to recover from this. The strain that we are putting on our personnel is unbelievable. And now there is talk about a third tour of duty being a real possibility. The viability of our Reserve and Guard units has been irreparably damaged. The loss of materiel is staggering.
Of course the real toll is the needless loss of American and Iraqi lives, the shattering, maiming and defiling of countless human beings' existences. And the whole world knows that America has lost its way.

[Old and In the Way]

3. I worry about this, too.

The equipment has got to be deteriorating and I don't see these soldiers getting relief anytime soon. The major routes in and out of Iraq seem to be impossible to control.

If Iraq does dissolve into a civil war, total anarchy could become inevitable. What a mess.

Exactly what many posters here were concerned about in the 2002/2003 run-up. No one particular liked Hussein, but we understood that his secular authoritarian rule was keeping Sunni, Shi'ites, and Kurds from destroying the state and allowing a radical Islamic fundementalism to create a new regional Caliphate..

[firefox]

5. We must occupy them until they are free n/t

[Disturbed]

8. Territory.

The Kurds want the North and the control of the oil. The Shi'ites want the South and control of the oil. Are the Sunnis in the Middle going to be satisfied with the Sunni Triangle and no oil?

[chieftain]

14. The Brits created this artificial state when they thought they

knew what was best for the world which, of course ,just happened to coincide with what was best for Old Britannia. Now we have taken up the white man's burden to civilize these poor unfortunates.Let's recognize that the country is a vestige of an imperial past and allow for the partition and absorption of this area into compatible existing countries.

[KerryOn]

12. Why...

... should we occupy them until they are free?

Why we are busy playing "Police The World" North Korea, Iran, and China are take advantage of the situation.

The National Guard should be called "The International Guard". We do not have a National Guard at all. The National Guard is suppose to guard the home land. Hell we don't even have enough of them here to help contain the wild fires in the west.

Maybe your point was that it would be hard to leave Iraq now. I understand, but it would be a waste of lives, money and time to stay one minuter longer, because the war is a lost cause.

The only way we could win now would be to triple the number of troops we now have. Lock down all the boarders, and STOP the frigging flow of Cash coming from Syria, Iran (and probably Saudi Arabia, Russia and china)and other countries that are supporting the insurgency. (And that will never happen.)

And to be honest I don't think the * Administration wants the war to be over. The longer we are at war, the more money * and his cronies make over Halliburton No Bid Contracts. Blow it up, then build it up. Blow it up then build it up...B... then B...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

6. And when you have troops in Iraq that have already been there at....

...least twice, you're asking for a lot of trouble all the way around.

A friend of mine keeps in contact with a lot of Army officers that have been in Iraq at least once, and they are ALL telling him how much they dislike Herr Busch.

[Bucky]

7. A year ago a coworker of mine was telling me this would end like Saigon

Helicopters evacuating the embassy roof amid dust, debris, and the advance of primitive armies that, someday, we're still gonna have to go back and make friends with. I hope he's wrong. I sure hope we don't have to go thru another 50,000 American lives and another million Iraqi lives before we find out if he was right or not.

[Coldwolf]

9. I can't remember who..

Someone said that Bush now has an exit plan. Problem is that it involves exiting into Iran.

[bowens43]

10. It'll be like Saigon in April of 1975.........

the last Americans on the roof tops waiting for the choppers while all hell breaks loose around them.

[chieftain]

13. I am really afraid it is going to be worse.

We had already begun the winddown in Vietnam and I think that the
logistics of withdrawal may have been easier. With our forces scattered throughout a country with poor roads and airfields smack dab in the middle of religious zealots, the evacuation could be a nightmare. I hope that the military are making contingency plans because this thing could turn very bad very fast.

[teryang]

16. Right

The logistics bottlenecks in Iraq are a nightmare. Vietnam could be accessed from any number of points along the coast.

[JanMichael]

11. Hell ever watch videos of "Escape from Nam"?

Tossing helicopters off the sides of ships to make room for yet another fleeing load.

We didn't leave gracefully...Probably because we didn't have much in the way of grace in the first place...