Next terror attack-gas tankers: LIHOP or MIHOP??

[jojo54]

MSNBC is talking about it right now and my thoughts are that the administration is trying to scare us...AGAIN, but if it doesn't succeed, then an attack will be LIHOP. If there are terrorists here who have taken the course to drive a tanker, then the SS/FBI/CIA/NIA/ etc know about them. What's your take on this?

[Cobalt Violet]

1. Perfect! Gas goes up to $5.00 gallon.

We lose more of our rights.

It sounds just like a republican wet dream.

[jojo54]

5. Ron is fighting as usual. Monica is just continuing her crap

that the pResident is doing his best to secure this nation.

Blah, blah, blah.....tell us another lie Monica.

[Turbineguy]

2. Here's some help (NOT)

Secretary-General lays foundation for LNG training in Egypt


The foundation stone of a new maritime training institute for LNG operations has been laid by IMO Secretary-General Efthimios E. Mitropoulos during an official visit to Egypt last week at the invitation of Transport Minister Dr. Essam Sharaf. His programme included the renewal of a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on technical co-operation matters between Egypt and IMO, a visit to a number of important Egyptian maritime centres and meetings with key officials from Egypt's maritime and political communities.

The new LNG training facility will form part of the Arab Academy for Science, Technology & Maritime Transport (AASTMT) in Abu Quir, Alexandria. Commenting on this latest development, Mr. Mitropoulos praised the Academy and expressed his appreciation to Dr. Gamal Mokhtar, President of AASTMT, for his leadership, foresight and vision in creating a new training centre to serve such an expanding maritime sector. He also expressed his confidence that the new facility would make a significant contribution to the excellent training that students at the Academy receive and would represent an important addition to the diversity of maritime-related career training available.

The new facility is expected to become operational during the first half of 2006, and will complement the existing amenities at the Academy's Maritime Complex, which include the College of Maritime Transport & Technology, the Integrated Simulators Complex, the Maritime Safety Centre and the Regional Maritime Examination Centre.

During his visit, Mr. Mitropoulos had discussions with Minister Sharaf, which culminated in the signing of a renewed and expanded MoU on technical co-operation between the Ministry of Transport, the AASTMT and IMO.
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http://www.imo.org/Newsroom/mainframe.asp?topic_id=1018&doc_id=5081

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. It's about busting the trucker protests.. not national security

[jojo54]

7. Yes, it IS about busting the truckers, but they won't stop at

anything to keep the American population in check. This is just the groundwork for an "attack", and then of course, Iran will be mentioned.

I have come to believe that the cabal plans very well and very far in advance.

[Dinger]

4. I'm Dumb - What's "LIHOP" & MIHOP? Thanks

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. "Let it happen", "Made it happen" As far as 9/11, I am a mihopper

Those evil sons of guns in the junta planned the whole thing.

[nookiemonster]

10. I concur.

Ever since day 1.

PNAC. It's all you need to know.

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. And how convenient norad was holding exercises on that same day for

that same sort of attack??

And yet Condi had never DREAMED of such a thing happening.

[nookiemonster]

15. Why would they shred all ATC records from that day?

eom

[sexybomber]

8. Clarification?

Are we talking about a tanker TRUCK or a tanker SHIP?

Either one can be turned into a rather large bomb, but I think a supertanker is a little harder to commandeer, considering it takes 20-25 people to run one.

[Not_Giving_Up]

11. Trucks

That's the story now. The terrorists are going to use tanker trucks to get us.

[sexybomber]

18. Ah.

Interesting idea.

[jojo54]

14. Tanker trucks, and go figure...see this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1696489

No details yet, but it's just a strange coincidence.

[sexybomber]

19. I think that was probably just a bad accident...

from the sounds of it.

[Coastie for Truth]

17. Only takes one small speed boat in a croewded harbor to do damage

See Append 12. The scenario has been predicted for some time in this thread, and the LNG tanker studies in "Proceedings of The Merchant Marine Safety Council, US Coast Guard" at the Coast Guard Web Site.

"Coastie"
Lieutenant, USCG (Honorably Discharged)

"Semper Par"

[sexybomber]

21. Yeah, exactly

Drive a speedboat loaded with explosives next to a supertanker and blow the charges.

Instant incendiary bomb.

Coastie, you're probably more knowledgeable on the subject than I am, but does the Coast Guard even inspect many small vessels like that?

[Coastie for Truth]

22. No.

The original idea was to "control" or "close" the harbor when a bulk LNG tanker or super tanker (or chemical tanker) came into the port. The regulations are on the books.

This basically puts a "net" of 30 foot cutters around the tanker, and maybe (JUST "MAYBE") a helo over head - with radio control of traffic.

This is done by the Coast Guard "Captain of the Port" (Steve Flynn and I are both "Captain of the Port" HazMat veterans).

Has some effect - but nowhere near 100%.

And there is really no inspection of "small boats" - except for life saving devices/vests, fire extinguishers, etc. - and that's done by the Coast Guard Auxiliary.

[demnan]

9. MIHOP - the "natives" are getting restless

It's time to scare the shit out of the morans again. All those gas stations had better starting ordering their "3's" now. Because regular is now $2.59 a gallon and it won't be long till it's $3.00 a gallon.

There are huge storage tanks for gas right next to I-95 in Newington, VA. If someone were to find a way to blow that shit up there would be a huge crater in No. Virginia.

[Coastie for Truth]

12. The scenario has been predicted for some time

My friend Steve Flynn has testifies

<edit>< This is why the topic of today's hearing is so important. The stakes are enormous. U.S. prosperity-and much of its power-relies on its ready access to global markets. Both the scale and pace at which goods move between markets has exploded in recent years thanks in no small part to the invention and proliferation of the intermodal container. These ubiquitous boxes-most come in the 40'x8'x8' size-have transformed the transfer of cargo from a truck, train, and ship into the transportation equivalent of connecting Lego blocks. The result has been to increasingly diminish the role of distance for a supplier or a consumer as a constraint in the world marketplace. Ninety percent of the world's freight now moves in a container. Companies like Wal-Mart and General Motors move up to 30 tons of merchandise or parts across the vast Pacific Ocean from Asia to the West Coast for about $1600. The transatlantic trip runs just over a $1000-which makes the postage stamp seem a bit overpriced.

But the system that underpins the incredibly efficient, reliable, and affordable movement of global freight has one glaring shortcoming in the post-9-11 world-it was built without credible safeguards to prevent it from being exploited or targeted by terrorists and criminals. Prior to September 11, 2001, virtually anyone in the world could arrange with an international shipper or carrier to have an empty intermodal container delivered to their home or workplace. They then could load it with tons of material, declare in only the most general terms what the contents were, "seal" it with a 50-cent lead tag, and send it on its way to any city and town in the United States. The job of transportation providers was to move the box as expeditiously as possible. Exercising any care to ensure that the integrity of a container's contents was not compromised may have been a commercial practice, but it was not a requirement.

The responsibility for making sure that goods loaded in a box were legitimate and authorized was shouldered almost exclusively by the importing jurisdiction. But as the volume of containerized cargo grew exponentially, the number of agents assigned to police that cargo stayed flat or even declined among most trading nations. The rule of thumb in the inspection business is that it takes five agents three hours to conduct a thorough physical examination of a single full intermodal container. Last year nearly 20 million containers washed across America's borders via a ship, train, and truck. Frontline agencies had only enough inspectors and equipment to examine between 1-2 percent of that cargo.

Thus, for would-be terrorists, the global intermodal container system that is responsible for moving the overwhelming majority of the world's freight satisfies the age-old criteria of opportunity and motive. "Opportunity" flows from (1) the almost complete absence of any security oversight in the loading and transporting of a box from its point of origin to its final destination, and (2) the fact that growing volume and velocity at which containers move around the planet create a daunting "needle-in-the-haystack" problem for inspectors. "Motive" is derived from the role that the container now plays in underpinning global supply chains and the likely response by the U.S. government to an attack involving a container. Based on statements by the key officials at U.S. Customs, the Transportation Security Administration, the U.S. Coast Guard, and the Department of Transportation, should a container be used as a "poor man's missile," the shipment of all containerized cargo into our ports and across our borders would be halted. As a consequence, a modest investment by a terrorist could yield billions of dollars in losses to the U.S. economy by shutting down-even temporarily-the system that moves "just-in-time" shipments of parts and goods. <edit><

and

The most gripping portion of Stephen Flynn's examination of America's defense shortcomings in the war on terror arrives early. The entire second chapter imagines an elaborate but feasible dirty-bomb attack that brings the nation's transportation system to a halt and presents the President with two dreadful options: reopen borders closed by the emergency and risk further attack, or inspect everything that comes into the country and accept the cataclysmic economic consequences. Flynn, a senior fellow at the Council of Foreign Relations and veteran of the George H. W. Bush and Clinton administrations, paints a picture of a government that is flailing in its efforts to protect its citizens. We are, Flynn argues, hamstrung by entrenched intelligence bureaucracies and ideological power centers on the right and left, and he isn't optimistic about the near-term likelihood that we'll meet our greatest challenge: "identifying how to formally engage the broader civil society and private sector, not just the federal government, in a national effort to make America a less attractive terrorist target." America the Vulnerable isn't as powerful or contentious as the bestseller Imperial Hubris; Flynn is a practical government veteran who keeps his outrage largely in check. It's clear he aims to have an impact with this expose of a national defense he compares to France's in the days of the Maginot line. And we know how effective that "impenetrable" defense stood up in the face of an unconventional opponent.

Not LIHOP - but Let It Happen Through Shear Stupidity and Incompetence - LIHTSSI

[evolved Anarchopunk]

16. MIHOP, a distraction couldn't come fast enough for these crooks.

It's so perfect, see: i often get yelled at by one or more freeps (at a time of course) saying "If the London attacks aren't proof enough to you that we need this War then I don't know what is! We can't even have a debate if that's the case blah blah blah.."

Do you see, using the consequences of a misguided war and supplanting them in your mushy Freep brain as the original reasons for that war is easy and fun ! And because you're so advanced, we "can't even have a debate".

And that's how it will be after this next attack. No discussion. Discussion is a sign of weakness you limp-wrist liberals! :sarcasm:

[leftofthedial]

20. gas is so expensive now

that al Qaeda can't afford to use tanker trucks

it would be cheaper to start their own "nukular" program-related activities.

[0rganism]

23. How about FPF, aka "front page filler"?

Gotta get the people re-focused on terrah, ya know?