MSNBC has the unedited 9/11 tapes from the New York Fire Department

[sabra]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8926416/

Here are the unedited 9/11 tapes from the New York Fire Department, released today. Twenty-four discs were released.

[merh]

1. Sure they released them -- they are trying to remind folks of the

terror of 9/11 - TERRA TERRA TERRA :argh:

[Stephanie]

10. No - this has been in litigation for some time

I think the timing is coincidental

[merh]

12. Nothing is coincidential --

eg - the torture images - they have been under court order to release for some time now.

Of course, that is simply my opinion & I will adjust my :tinfoilhat:

:hi:

[beam me up scottie]

13. The NYFD has the torture pictures?

Wow, I had no idea.

[merh]

15. No - the NYFD does what it is ordered to do or not do.

Just like every agency in the USofA - if febbies or homeland tell them to hold the info - they hold it.

Nice attempt at dense confusion though! :hi:

[beam me up scottie]

16. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, right. They were simply

waiting for the for the Illuminati to give them the "signal".

[merh]

17. Think what you want.

And I will do the same - shame that folks that read here are not as aware as they believe.

[beam me up scottie]

18. Some of us are suspicious of some things,

others prefer to be suspicious of everything.
I'm not into confirmation bias.

[merh]

19. Having worked in gov & law enforcement

I feel my suspicions are legitimate.

[beam me up scottie]

21. So why are you suspicious of the victims' families?

nt

[merh]

23. I'm not. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

26. Then how can you say that this was part of a conspiracy?

The victims' families sued for the release of this information.
The tapes were released to them.

[merh]

39. The "conspiracy" was the release, not the suing for the release

the gov gave up their hold, allowing the agencies to comply with the terms of the litigation. Under P1 & P2 they could have held out forever, the "conspiracy" is the timing of the release.

BTW - I didn't notice, who gave the media the disks?

[beam me up scottie]

41. The NYFD released them to the public

after having sent the packets to the families earlier in the week.
They didn't "give" them to the media.

[merh]

43. so were they ordered to release them to the families or to the

public or both?

If to the families and not the public, why release to the public after having guarded them for so long?

[beam me up scottie]

45. They were ordered to make them public. n/t

[merh]

46. Wasn't the pentagon Ordered to make the torture photos public?

:shrug:

Seems like orders don't mean much. :shrug:

[beam me up scottie]

49. I refuse to speculate about the other, but obviously this order did.

Didn't it?

[merh]

58. Timing is everything!

Just saying :shrug:

[beam me up scottie]

62. How conveeeeeeeeeeeeeeenient.

It's ridiculous to assume that every major news story is manufactured to divert attention from this administrations abysmal record.

When are they NOT doing something that they would prefer not be covered by the press?

And using that "logic", the events in Crawford must have been staged to divert attention from the BFEE setting its sights on Iran, right?

Damn those Illuminatis for playing us like that!

[merh]

70. Never said that about Crawford, so I don't understand why you

drag it into this discussion. I'm just stating my impression, let it piss you off all you want. It is just an opinion.

And, btw -- I never mentioned illuminatis, you continue to bring it up and use the term, it appears you have some type of obsession with the group. :shrug: go figure

[beam me up scottie]

71. All paranoid conspiracy theories lead back to the same source.

And the conspiracy du jour is no more credible that the ones David Icke invents.

And it's why I wish Skinner would do what kos did.
Purging them was the smartest thing he could have done, except now we are getting all of his banned posters.

At the very least, the paranoid threads that cite tinfoil sources should immediately be moved to the 911 forum or the Meeting Room.

This site is becoming the laughing stock of liberal websites.

And post #2 posits that this story is a diversion from Crawford, which is really not so different that what you claim.

[merh]

72. It is different from what I posted and just because you don't

agree with a statement does not mean the statement constitutes a theory that is not legitimate. Who died and made you the judge and jury of what is a correct or legitimate theory? What is humorous about this entire exchange is that you have been the one perpetuating the thread and thus the theories as found in same.

There are other things going on in this world besides Crawford. Plummeting approval numbers of the weed-n-chief, the rumblings about Iran, just to name two. If you don't like my statement, IGNORE IT.

That is the best way to deal with it. Especially when you cannot help but confuse the issues and hide your disgust for free speech. :hi:

[beam me up scottie]

75. Nice try.

Anybody who dissents shows "disgust for free speech".:eyes:

The tinfoil theory that msm stories are being released on command is disruptive and causes its own diversion.

Not to mention, it's baseless and is paranoid to the extreme.

Example:

Oh look!!! Peter Jennings died! I bet he died MONTHS ago and they waited to announce it until they needed a diversion!

:rofl:

[merh]

78. You are the dissenter that insists folks that don't think like you

think should be banned from DU or dismissed to basement forums. Go read your posts and you will see that you are trying to shut down speech. And, since I never read nor posted that about Peter Jennings and since you posted the theory, it would appear that you are trying to be disruptive and create diversions by posting crazy theories, you tinfoilhatter you.

My comment stands, I could care less if you like it or if you consider it disruptive. The only one disruptive in this thread has been you and the joke is on you - you have keep this thread alive, perpetuating my theory - keeping it alive. :rofl:

:toast:

[beam me up scottie]

79. No, actually I think PCT threads should simply be moved from the

main forums, just like threads about UFOs, Bigfoot and Elvis sitings.

There's really not much difference.

No stifling of free speech, just discerning between confabulation and reality and moving to appropriate forums for further discussion.

I understand the need for people to make up things to get attention.

Just look at the Gen. Byrnes threads, and thankfully, some of them have been moved.

BFEE manipulation of events is a PCT.

You didn't invent it, certainly.
But if you post PCT propaganda, others may call you on it.
That's part of free speech too.
:evilgrin:

[merh]

81. You mean my posts should be moved to "free speech zones"

and others are to determine where I should be allowed to express my opinions?

I know Elvis is dead, the closest thing to a sighting I have had of him are impersonators that perform at casinos, big foot is far too hairy to survive in the South, so I have never seen it, and, I believe it is far too egotistical to believe that we are the only beings in our vast universe. Actually, I hope there is truth to UFOs and that they will stop us from destroying our world. (I actually find it rather comical that you make fun of other's theories when you have such a clever moniker, as if you like those television programs.)

I am not out for attention, I stated an opinion, and given my life experiences, I know my opinion is not that far from the truth. Since you have not had my life experiences, I can understand why you are skeptic.

OBT, the General Byrnes threads are doing well in GD. I believe there is also a thread in LBN about the questionable reason for his dismissal. Apparently you have been too busy trying to belittle my opinions to pay close attention to other threads and events.

Guess you can't shut down all schools of thoughts that differ from your own.

What is so sad is that there are some folks that don't see the manipulation that has been going on around them. They close their eyes to reality because the truth is too frightening or preposterous. It is just that notion, that it is too preposterous that makes the manipulation so effective. My life experiences don't allow me to be so naive or ignorant.

:hi:

[beam me up scottie]

80. Actually, you have a wicked good sense of humour.

We are having a make your own conspiracy party in the Skeptic's group if you want to join in.
Just a fun way to blow off steam, not trying to offend.

Sorry if I implied that you should shut up, the Flying Spaghetti Monster knows I never do...

We all feel passionate about taking back our country.

Peace

[merh]

82. Thank you, I have seen too much to qualify as member of

the skeptic forum. Appreciate the invite, but it is not for me.

:hi:

[beam me up scottie]

83. But you are a skeptic when it comes

to believing the government and the msm.
That is a good thing.
Too bad the other half of this country isn't skeptical at all.

[merh]

84. Yes, it is too bad. n/t

[Stephanie]

54. The New York Times was part of the lawsuit

I think that's why - it's a FOIA thing maybe.

[Hugin]

56. I will take this opportunity to point out Judith Miller works for the NYT.

The motives of the NYT are highly suspect... They
led the drumbeat to the Iraq war.

[beam me up scottie]

63. What does that have to do with anything?

The tapes were made public, not secretly handed to the NYT.

[Stephanie]

14. I think in this case it's a coincidence

:hi:

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_news/story/336746p-287620c.html

The 12,000 pages of oral histories were made public along with hours of Fire Department radio transmissions, their release compelled by a lawsuit filed three years ago by The New York Times and long contested by the city.

***

The New York Times and families of Sept. 11 victims sued the city in 2002 to release the records, which were collected by the Fire Department in the days after the collapse of the twin towers.

The city withheld them, claiming the release would violate firefighters' privacy and jeopardize the prosecution of Zacarias Moussaoui, who ultimately pleaded guilty to conspiring with the Sept. 11 hijackers.

In March, the state's highest court ordered the city to release the oral histories and radio transmissions but said the city could edit out potentially painful and embarrassing portions.

The Fire Department, in a statement, said it hoped the release of the records would not cause firefighters and their families additional pain.

"The Department believes that the materials being released today ... will serve to further confirm the bravery and courage of our members who responded to the World Trade Center," the statement said.

[/div}

[Hugin]

2. It's a diversion from what is happening in Crawford...

Also, correlates with the GOP 2006 kick-off last week.

[beam me up scottie]

5. A diversion?

It was court ordered back in March after the NY Times and the families of 911 victims won their lawsuit.

The NYFD released them, not the press.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-attacks-response,0,5696474.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

[Hugin]

51. Then why is a *Republican* congressman pushing the 1999 Pentagon...

Intelligence so hard?

If not to blame the whole thing on President Clinton.

This whole thing is pulp... It's a shiny thing designed
to take the masses eyes off of the bright shining lie of
Iraq.

[beam me up scottie]

60. You posted "It's a diversion from what is happening in Crawford..."

I would like to hear your explanation of how this was planned to upstage what Cindy is doing in Crawford.

Was 911 planned in advance to divert attention from Crawford too?

You know, TINFOIL is a bright shiny thing, too.

[Hugin]

87. It must be wonderful to be you.

You wake up each morning to such wondrous unrelated events as:

Oh, look Al-Quieda is linked to Iraq! (and you buy it)
Oh, look Iraq has a WMD program! (and you buy it)
Oh, look the * administration had nothing to do with Enron.
(and you buy it)
Oh, look the * administration knew nothing about the threat of a terrorist attack. (and you buy it)

and on and on and on...

I'm quite familiar with the Delphi Technique and it's use
to try to discredit those who oppose your message. Your
implication "I'm a conspiracy theorist and crazy."

However, I've become *well* aware of how this corrupt administration
does absolutely nothing which isn't politically motivated. Any moran knows this... and yet you question it and accuse others who have good reason to question the motives and methods of the bankrupt neocon agenda of being crazy.

I submit, you, are the one who will soon be fitted with tinfoil.

I stand by my point...

This whole 9/11 resurgence is a diversion from not only Crawford, but:

The corrupt Tom Delay
The outing of Valerie Plame
The ongoing economic woes caused by a war Americans were misled into.
The fact the Bush administration was asleep at the wheel.
The fact the Bush administration has yet to bring any of the *real* perpetrators of 9/11 to any kind of reckoning.
The fact the world is a more dangerous place for Americans than it was before we were lied into a war.

How, exactly, is releasing the NYFD's tapes at this point going to do anything, but, push Rumsfeld's stupid "march"?

You are a perfect example of the maxim, "Those who can't remember
history are doomed to repeat it."

[beam me up scottie]

88. False dilemmas are for ineffectual debaters.

Use them on someone else, please.

I think the "If you're not with us, you're against us" tribe could give you some pointers.

You can reach them at the Whitehouse.

[Zynx]

7. Adjust tinfoil, please.

[Hugin]

52. I'd rather wear tinfoil than get duped into another war against...

... the wrong country again.

Wouldn't you? Seems to me this whole "Reviving 911" thing
is trying to shift the blame to Iran.

Just my thoughts... If you don't agree just stand by and
watch it happen.

[Caleb]

11. Riiiiiight

:crazy:

[Hugin]

53. One word posts don't warrant a reply.

It's hard to have a meeting of the minds when I have to
wait for one word at a time to process through.

Experience has shown any time there is such a wide spread
coverage of any news item in present times. It's due to
some agenda... and it's *not* the agenda of the Democrats.

[Sven77]

3. im sure they didnt have it all

what about the part where they say the fire is almost out, then they say bombs, everybody out !!! some firefighters spoke out and were threatened and then kept quiet.

[Javaman]

4. I want to see the unedited footage from CNN...

[DoYouEverWonder]

6. I bet the folks down in the dungeon

excuse me, the 9-11 Forum are going to make good use of this information.

[psychopomp]

65. Umm... silly question, but where is the 9-11 forum?

I can't seem to find it. Was it pulled? (sorry, poor choice of words, probably)

[beam me up scottie]

69. Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125

[psychopomp]

73. Thank you

I had believed it archived, permanently; thanks!

[beam me up scottie]

77. Nope, still there

and still very active.

You're welcome.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

8. And the proof that they are "unedited" is? It took years to release

them and god knows what could have been done with them in that amount of time.

[beam me up scottie]

9. Unedited as in

the tapes sent to the victims' families were not edited by MSNBC before they made them available on their website.

[Up2Late]

24. They also played some of them on NPR (All Things Considered) today!

You can here some of them at the links below:

9/11 Fire Dept. Dispatch Tapes Released
<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4798446>

New York Releases Sept. 11 Tapes, Oral Histories
<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4797889>

[beam me up scottie]

27. Thanks. I listen to NPR all day at work and

heard some bits.
It was hard to listen to.
I'm sure it will be very painful for the victims' families, but they have a right to this info.

[sunnystarr]

31. Looks to me like they're edited

"In March, the state's highest court ordered the city to release the oral histories and radio transmissions but said the city could edit out potentially painful and embarrassing portions."

[beam me up scottie]

36. Read my post.

Unedited as in ...
the tapes sent to the victims' families were not edited by MSNBC before they made them available on their website.

[Mairead]

57. Read Sunnystar's post

It's the CITY that could (and probably did) edit them, not MSNBC.

[beam me up scottie]

61. READ MY POST.

The poster responded to MY post and attempted to correct an error I did not make.

9. Unedited as in
the tapes sent to the victims' families were not edited by MSNBC before they made them available on their website.

31. Looks to me like they're edited
"In March, the state's highest court ordered the city to release the oral histories and radio transmissions but said the city could edit out potentially painful and embarrassing portions."

Are we clear on this?
Or shall I post and go over them again?

[Mairead]

74. I'm clear on it, yes, as I imagine Sunnystar is. You? I don't think so.

You're making claims that the tapes weren't edited by MSNBC. Sunnystar is saying MSNBC is not the only source of editing. What's hard about that for you?

[beam me up scottie]

76. Did you always have trouble with reading comprehension?

The "claims" came from THE ARTICLE.
Did you even read it?

Maybe you just don't understand the complexity of the statement.

Just like you didn't understand that my post refers to what is in the ARTICLE.

Perhaps post #66 would be easier to understand.

Just to clarify ONE MORE TIME:

I made no "claims" about the tapes not being edited except by MSNBC.

Take your accusations elsewhere, you are wrong and are compounding your error by repeating yourself.

[Mairead]

85. I think that other people can figure it out even if you're still unable to

so I'll let it go here.

[Doo_Revolution]

20. If these are the "real" tapes, what is actually on them?

What do they show, and does anyone have the files on them yet? Pictures, what does the truth really display?

[Bluebear]

22. They're audiotapes

These are unedited transmission tapes from FDNY.

[Doo_Revolution]

25. You mean to tell me, they have recorded NO video?

Only audio and intercepted radio? How will it ever be proven then, if there is no video or documentary from the actual explosions?

[beam me up scottie]

28. How will WHAT be proven ?

You're pretty new, I wouldn't be begging the question just yet.

Just saying...

[Doo_Revolution]

30. That 9/11 was simply an inside job.

Have you read this website extensively?

http://www.newamericancentury.org

It indicates how 9/11 was likely supposed to happen and was pre-rigged, yet if they don't have any documentary evidence it can't be proven.

There must have been people who kept the security recordings, it wouldn't make sense that there was no video.

[Bluebear]

33. These are emergency transmissions over the radio

from firefighters, to dispatch and back. During an emergency I don't think FDNY would send a crew to videotape, would they?

[Doo_Revolution]

38. I'm talking about security recordings.

They would have to produce security recordings for a situation such as this. Why have those tapes not actually been released, from the WTC buildings?

The thought of it being an inside-job is no more a conspiracy theory than David Ray Griffin is from Antarctica.

There's plenty of ample evidence on these websites to show it.
http://911research.wtc7.net/
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/
http://www.wanttoknow.info/9-11timeline60pg

[beam me up scottie]

42. There is NO evidence that proves it.

And MIHOP is a textbook example of a paranoid conspiracy theory.
This is why kos purged them from his site.

You really should learn the definitions if you want to debate the issue, although any threads you start on the subject will probably be moved to the September 11 forum.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

50. I'm not talking about imaginary tapes.

If you want to believe that there are tapes being kept from you, knock yourself out, but stop begging the question.

I'm talking about MIHOP.
It may not be Echidna, but it's coming right along.

[beam me up scottie]

35. Uh, yeah

I've been there, but I don't believe in paranoid conspiracy theories.

You are begging the question and I'm not in a charitable mood.

[Up2Late]

32. I don't know if you've see this video, it's rather rare.

It was taken by someone who followed the Fire Chief into Tower 1 after it was hit.

It even catches the second hit on Tower 2 and the fire fighters trying to get out of Tower 1, after Tower 2 collapses.

<http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6932.htm>

[Cleita]

29. Any way our side can get a hold of them?

Maybe Will Pitt or Lala-raw-raw as legitimate journalists can? It seems they should be able to get them under the Freedom of Information Act. I think our side needs them to counter any spin MSNBC is going to try to effect from them. At least I'm sure they will try to get the truth out.

[beam me up scottie]

34. They're on MSNBC's website.

Also on NPR and I believe Newsweek.

[Cleita]

37. Okay, thanks.

I'll look at Newsweek. I don't patronize the other outlets.

[Independent_Liberal]

40. First the Watergate tapes. Now the 9/11 tapes!

Isn't Oliver Stone planning on making a movie about 9/11? Didn't he say that somewhere in the 18 minute gap erasure on the Watergate tape is something that might unlock the key to the JFK assassination?

[GreenPartyVoter]

44. Anyone have the gist of what they say? Otherwise I will have

to wait until tomorrow to find out.

[aquart]

47. The gist?

It's not an accident. Send the army to Manhattan. All off duty firefighters report. We're trapped. We have no chief here. We are trapped and alone.

Jumpers!

That's the gist.

[Stephanie]

55. Also I think some of it is post-event interviews

oral histories from the firefighters

[bbernardini]

59. Anybody have problems with disc 5?

I've been able to download everything on there except disc 5, which gets stuck around 87%.

[shance]

64. How do we know for a fact they're unedited?

I think its a logical question.

[beam me up scottie]

66. The "unedited" part is referring to the fact that

MSNBC didn't edit them after they were released.

Nobody is arguing that the tapes were not edited by the NYFD.

[shance]

67. Doesn't read that way. Why not mention that in the title?

It's misleading otherwise.

[beam me up scottie]

68. I didn't write it and the op correctly posted what's on the website.

The conditions given to the NYFD by the court are specified in the article(s).

[rman]

86. Why would some media get edited tapes, and others unedited tapes?

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/nyregion/nyregionspecial3/

some comments from the september 11 forum
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x51993


"WE TRIED TO MOVE TRAFFIC (blanked out ...)
THIS WAS REPORTED TO THE DETECTIVES ON MY INTERVIEW WITH THEM. WE THOUGHT IT WAS UNUSUAL BUT WE JUST WENT AGAINST TRAFFIC WE
GOT TO THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE ME AND 221 WERE IN TANDEM FOR THE WHOLE WAY "


=====


G . ASAEDA, a doctor with the Paramedics:

I do remember thinking that it looked very secure, thick
concrete and whatnot, and we all crammed, probably
about 30 of us, into this little alcove between the
lobby and the loading dock.

about eight lines blanked out here, between these two statements!

. and he next thing I
n o t i c e d , t h a t j e t engine sound and then a loud crash
and then pitch black . Then --
Q . Just prior to that , were there electrical
lights where you were?
A. Yes, there were.
Q . Did they stay on?

[beam me up scottie]

89. All tapes released to the public were edited by the NYFD.

The court allowed them to edit them.

The tapes were not "given" to the media, they were released to the public.