I just took a break from watching "Gettysburg"

[benburch]

And it occurs to me that we are on the verge of a conflagration every bit as vital to our nation.

Gettysburg is proof that good can triumph over evil if good people do their duty and never let down their guard.

Then it was Blue vs. Grey. Now it is Blue vs. Red. But it is the same conflict, frozen in time for a century and a half, and we must be prepared for it.

Friends, if you can shoot, practice.

If you cannot shoot, learn.

If you cannot learn to shoot, pray to your God.

Because not only the fate of America, but the fate of the world hangs in the balance.

Understanding and love are the way to prevent wars, but are of no help whatsoever in fighting them, and I fear that soon we shall have to find that out the hard way.

[Just Me]

1. Ben,...

,...do you genuinely believe that we are that close to the brink that these bastards want us to be?

:shrug:

[benburch]

2. I do.

And I think they will steamroller over us if we are not prepared to resist. They are pushing matters towards that day faster than ever I imagined, and I am a pessimist on such matters.

[Just Me]

4. I guess I reject the idea that these bastards can create such conditions.

Sure, they've had raging success in other, poorer nations. I don't doubt they are seeking to do the same here. However, something inside tells me they seriously underestimate humanity, including the American people (politicians, military, intelligence, even corporations included). Moreover, I just think, they ain't all that!! To the contrary, I believe they are weak as hell because their core is so damn small and dark. They're really, really small,...in my view.

[Eloriel]

11. They already have all they need, really

and everything in place for some plenty nasty stuff ahead, should they choose. We already ARE in a fascist state. No question in my mind. The only question is: how totalitarian (and brutal) will it get?

As Huey P. Long once said, "Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised as 100 percent Americanism."

“A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.” -Aldus Huxley, Brave New World


Here's an article I was reading just yesterday -- lengthy, but well worth it IMO:

THE ROAD TO MARTIAL LAW
The Global Battlefield (Martial Law) - Stan Goff, The Feral Scholar
http://stangoff.com/index.php?p=173#comments
and here as well: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/070805_global_battlefield.shtml

[Donailin]

17. Huxleys quote is easy to understand

the working man (the servant) is doing everything humanly possible to hang onto the dream that he was told he needed to achieve. He is now too afraid to let it go and will continue to swim furiously never realizing that he is drowning himself in the process.

Oh God, I'm so depressed.

[Just Me]

18. Yes, I am very aware of the evolving corporatism/fascism here.

I also acknowledge those who haven't yet recognized what is happening. However, there is a general sense that something is run amok and more people are paying attention.

I have the same concerns as so many of us do that this shit is simply spiralling out of control,...and the consequences could be devastating.

On the other hand, I KNOW that there are literally BILLIONS of people touched by the potentiality delivered by 20th Century Heroes of Humanity,...and this incredibly narcissistic corporacratic regime foolishly dismisses the advancement of human wherewithal.

Frankly, I'm not sure which pisses me off the most: this regime's dismissal of human advancement or this regime's exploitation of those who haven't caught up with that advancement.

Hopefully, when justice calls, we will ALL unite to STOP these bastards' criminal abuse of humanity,...and MAKE IT A PERMANENT MARK in history. Humanity has no use for this destructive disease.

[susanna]

14. My biggest question...

in a theoretical civil war, who would the corporations side with? The red states, or the blue? Who buys/spends/pays the most?

The reason I ask: corporations, as an entity, must survive and profit. Who would they throw their towel in with, if viewing the long term?

[Just Me]

20. Ah, you see,...corporations have a huge interest in this venture.

Frankly, your question should be FULLY explored on a separate post.

Why would certain oil/refinery companies REJECT the neoCON "privatization" of the entire nation of Iraq? :shrug:

[susanna]

21. Thank goodness, LOL...

I thought mine might be a stupid question.

I tell my family and friends that it always makes sense to think about "who profits" from any given news story.

A war, though more horrific, should be held to the same criteria: who profits, and why? Corporations are the obvious wildcard here. They must continue to sell, come hell or high water; so who do they really stand behind, if things became extreme? Just my wandering thoughts at 2:15 in the morning on a Sat-Sunday. ;-)

[Donailin]

15. I agree with you. My intuition on this is strong and I can't shake it.

I've had this feeling for awhile, since the election actually. They're never going to give up power. This is the logical conclusion of unrestrained, unregulated corporate capitalism. Everthing is coming together. The conditions are set for a major conflict right here at home.

The doomsday feeling hit me especially the other night when I read this:http://www.financialsense.com/transcriptions/Simmons.html
and when I passed a gas station this evening that is pretty average in price list regular at $2.76 -- it was $2.64 only this morning! That literally scared the crap out of me. Not because I didn't see it coming, I did. The article above outlines that gas will probably hit 100 a barrel by the holidays, but I didn't expect that it would occur so rapidly.

The price of oil is going to cause chaos here. People will rebel, but Bush will rebel back, and so will the haves against the have-nots.

[expatriot]

3. Gettysburg is a lesson that conservatives are on the wrong side of history

and ultimately lose.


I always thought the lesson of Gettysburg was this:

It doesn't matter how many regiments of penicl -necked, four-eyed, abolitionist Connecticutt intellectuals the ignorant football playing, deer-hunting, wide-shouldered hootin' and hollerin' Red State hicks can mow down, pretty soon they will have to cross an open field totally exposed to the brutal unforgiving artillery barrage of the industrial revolution.

[Just Me]

9. Gettysburg happened long before the incredible changes and,...

,...advances of the 20th Century. The absolute worst and best of humanity clashed,...both had a permanent mark on human history. Humanity REJECTS that element of humanity which is dark and greedy and destructive while embracing that element which delivers our very best.

If what I say isn't true,...why would our American tyrants work so damn hard to hide their dark intentions by proclaiming their actions will lead to every enlightened struggle we've suffered to realize,...in order to defraud the American people?

Think about it.

[RoyGBiv]

5. You took a break?

What, you can't sit still for four hours and be entertained by the chipmunk glued to Tom Beringer's chin? :-)

At the risk of instigating a debate you did not intend, and as much as I appreciate the sentiment you are expressing, I disagree with a fundamental premise.

Gettysburg, or the Civil War in general, is in my view proof that a lesser evil can triumph over a greater evil with the force of a gun, leaving nothing but victims in its wake. It is proof, in other words, that when people in positions of power lose their ability or willingness to work toward a genuine, progressive good, a bloodbath that creates as many problems as it solves will be the result.

There's an ahistorical line spoken by Beringer in the movie, to the effect of "We should have freed the slaves and then fired on Sumter" that sums up my view of things fairly well. The Union held the moral high ground only because of the Confederacy's reasons for invoking secession. (Admittedly this is a very good reason.) The subsequent relationship between the federal government, the states, and the people was forever altered in some unintentional positive ways but also in some very intentional negative ways. We just finished a discussion elsewhere concerning corporate person-hood and how it became established. Without the result of the Civil War, it never would have, or at least not in the same way. The people who ran corporations, then in their infancy, were delighted at the opportunities presented them by the Civil War to establish themselves as the primary base of power in the nation.

I offer none of this opinion as an indication I believe the wrong "side" won the war. I do believe, however, that there were more than two sides and that the people of a nation can never benefit in the long term directly from any war fought between two or more monied interests, which is what was actually taking place: essentially Southern slaveholders vs. Northern mercantilists.

Getting back to your premise, I cannot and will not allow myself to be taken over by these interests to the point I pick up a gun and start killing people for them. The American Civil War was not a battle of the people versus the aristocracy. It was a battle of competing aristocracies using the people as cannon fodder. If we're not very careful in how we approach this business in modern times, that's all we'll have again, only on a much more massive scale, and it will solve nothing.

But, for what it's worth, I keep my powder dry and my barrel oiled.

[chookie]

6. Fascinating insight

You've certainly put the battle into a wider perspective.

[Just Me]

7. Yep. I really prefer NONE of us "buy" into those "interests", ever again.

But, hey, I really am pro-democracy, pro-human rights, pro-equality and ANTI-EXPLOITATION. I am sick of the same ole', same ole' exploitation of folks.

People have a common enemy,...and it's those who manipulate their weaknesses and/or vulnerabilities for oppressive advantage. I don't want to be divided from people,...I want to separate myself from those exploit them.

[benburch]

8. But they mean to kill us or enslave us.

Are you prepared to accept that?

[Just Me]

13. Ben,..."they" are .0000001% of humanity, if that.

Our challenge is simply uniting against those who oppress us,...and refusing to cooperate. If only it was that simple *LOL*. We are in a far more advantaged age to unite in such a way,...if we are willing to believe in something greater than ourselves and embrace our capacity to wage peace and respect and tolerance and fairness.

[benburch]

16. Kings and Dictators always are.

But that does not help when the people who WILL follow them open fire on you.

[Just Me]

19. We are more interconnected, more knowledgeable,...

,...more concerned with our relationship with others,...than EVER before those kings and dictators.

Hey, listen,...I would rather live in safety of what I know than in fear of what someone else imposes. I'll gladly honor you as the warrior of security while I serve as the warrior of human potential. :hug:

Meanwhile, I still believe these crafty bastards will fail and fall.

[RoyGBiv]

10. Well put ...

I am not typically a fan of the Marxist interpretation of historical events, but in this, I admit to being influenced somewhat by it. I still don't accept that interpretation wholesale, which I have not presented here in its entirety, and never will due to some serious flaws with it. However, they get one basic thing right, and it can be summed up in a trite but true phrase: rich man's war, poor man's fight.

People, on both official sides, were taken in by those in power before, during, and after that war and served to kill and be killed so some small group of idiots could either hold on to their wealth or acquire more.

It may sound strange, but the perfect example of this is apparent in the relationship of the governments of the so-called Five Civilized Tribes to both their people and the national governments of the Confederacy and the United States. Factions, generally represented by the official tribal governments, that saw political or financial advantage in siding with the Confederacy did so. Factions, usually represented by those who were lured with promises of wealth or power or warned with threats, saw political and financial advantage with the Union. They fought internally and with their respective "sides," and in the end, they had everything stolen from them.

[icymist]

12. LOL!!!

chipmunk glued to Tom Beringer's chin:spray: :rofl:

[wli]

22. Cheney has big guns, big bombs, and REX 84 on his side

It's time to run, folks. They literally can kill and enslave us all. You don't want to provoke that. There's no hope of confronting Cheney on such terms.

[benburch]

23. The insurgency in Iraq is up against the same threat.

And I don't see them running.

[wli]

24. not that I can tell

There aren't thousands of preassembled prisons in Iraq explicitly intended to have the collective capacity to imprison and enslave tens of millions of people. But that's what REX 84 is.

[Yupster]

25. I have trouble sitting through the

whole four hours of Gettysburg.

I like Gods and Generals better, but it's almost as long, and I can't believe they threw in musical numbers.

It doesn't look like the third of the trilogy "The Last Full Measure" will be made anytime soon, or if it will, I haven't heard of it.