lose of cabin pressure per BBC on plane per pax message...

[wakeme2008]

Greece airliner crash 'kills 121'

All 121 people on board a Cypriot airliner are feared dead after it plunged into a hill near Athens after an apparent drop in cabin pressure.

A text message sent from the plane said that the pilots were unconscious and passengers were freezing to death.

Greek F-16 fighter jets were scrambled when contact with the Helios Airways plane was lost during the flight between Larnaca in Cyprus and Athens.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4150312.stm

[SoCalDem]

1. Perhaps their windshield was blown out ...

But don;t pilots have oxygen at the ready?? Sounds bizarre..How would a passenger know that the pilots were unconscious?

[Massacure]

3. How do you know it was a passanger who text-messaged and not crew?

[SoCalDem]

5. Ther article quoted a man who got a text-message

from his cousin..bidding him farewell:(

[Massacure]

8. Oops, I just went back and reread the article and saw I missed that.

[AlCzervik]

7. actually it could have lost pressure through a very small valve

when Payne Stewart died i called my dad, he's a pilot and he explained there is a valve that has to be on the pre-flight inspection and if it's not that will result in what happened on Stewart's plane and maybe here, it's some type of valve that mixes oxygen, I'm sure some smart DU'er will know better then i but my Dad's been a pilot for over 40 years so i tend to think he's correct.

[Bmongilly]

12. Dump valves

>when Payne Stewart died i called my dad, he's a pilot and he explained >there is a valve that has to be on the pre-flight inspection and if it's >not that will result in what happened on Stewart's plane

I believe he is talking about the "dump valves." There are either one or two of them and they are designed to open if the cabin pressure rises above a certain point. It is to keep the plane from blowing up. They are supposed to be checked during pre-flight to insure proper operation. I was on a flight landing at Kennedy airport one time and the valves opened during decent and dumped about half the cabin pressure before the pilot over-rode them and got them closed again. That was interesting. No, the masks didn't drop and no it didn't snow inside the cabin. :-()

[newyawker99]

17. Hi Bmongilly!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Bmongilly]

19. Thanks!

Thanks New Yawker, and I like your screen name!

Now there should be the man from New Joysey and his neighbor in Bwoston.

::giggle::

[Midlodemocrat]

2. Sounds like what happened to that golfer

Payne Stewart and his plane a while back.

Very sad.

[Bmongilly]

10. People need oxygen

>>Payne Stewart and his plane a while back.

Yes, that was I believe because the pilots were not actually wearing oxygen or the tanks were dry, one or the other but the plane was at 45,000 feet when the cabin emptied and the useful conciousness at that altitude is about 5 seconds.

These kind of accidents really irritate me.

[antigone382]

4. Those poor people...that's horrible.

My thoughts are with them and their families.

[blue sky at night]

6. Cockpit was locked from the inside,

no doubt, so no chance for anyone else to take control. They hate us for our "freedoms".

[LisaL]

11. If the cockpit was locked from the inside, how the hell would the

passenger know the pilots were unconscious?

[Bmongilly]

13. Because of the phones

The flight attendands have a phone they can pick up that is a direct line to the pilots. There would have been no answer.

[LisaL]

14. Oh for crying out loud. It had happened in Greece, not in US.

Do greek lock their cockpits at at all?
Some reports claimed that pilot was not even in a cockpit when the plane crashed. WTF did he go if the cockpit was locked?
Also, one passenger apparently text messaged his relative that the pilot "turned blue in the face". Which, if true, indicates they could see the pilot.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4150312.stm

[Bmongilly]

15. Good point

Here is an excerpt from the article:

"Greek TV reported that a passenger sent a text message to a cousin telling him that the pilot had turned blue in the face and the plane's temperature had plummeted."

Now then, for the passenger to see that the pilot's face was blue, the cockpit door could not have been locked.

[punpirate]

9. An earlier report said that the crew...

... had radioed shortly after take-off that they were having trouble with the air-conditioning system. If the temperature dropped drastically, yeah, it could cause unconsciousness, but not right away. I can't understand why this plane didn't return to the originating airport when the problem didn't go away.

[Bmongilly]

18. Cabin pressure vs. ambient temperature

What happens when cabin pressure is lost at a high altitude is the temperature drops rapidly to compensate with the ambient temperature. Whatever the outside temperature is, that's what the inside temperature is. It was probably below zero.

[punpirate]

23. Yes, I understand PV=nRT...

... (quite well, in fact). The question was why didn't they immediately return to the airport from which they departed when they first noticed a persistent problem, which was shortly after take-off--according to the initial reports. If it's too damned cold inside, you request a lower altitude and get back. That's my question. Why didn't the pilots do just that? I suspect they thought it was a problem with the cabin heaters and just kept going.

Cheers.

[wakeme2008]

16. I think it is 18,000 feet but could be off

but if a pilot has to leave the cockpit, the other pilot HAS to go on O2 while the pilot is out of the cockpit (bathroom break whatever).

But that is US rules.

[Bmongilly]

20. I'm not sure

I'm not sure how that works but it most likely could be found in part 135 and part 141 rules and regs.

[wakeme2008]

22. 135.89 :) and it is 25,000

Pressurized aircraft:
• More than 10,000 MSL cabin pressure altitude <135.89(b)(1)>.
• At 25,000-35,000 MSL, unless each pilot is equipped with an approved quick
donning type O2 mask, at least one pilot at controls must wear O2 mask and
other pilot has O2 mask immediately available (mask must supply O2 at all
times or must be one that automatically supplies O2 when cabin pressure
exceeds 12,000 MSL) <135.89(b)(2)>.
• At flight altitudes above 35,000 MSL at least one pilot at controls must wear
and use an O2 mask regardless of type of O2 mask used <135.89(b)(3)>.
• At altitudes above 25,000 MSL, if one pilot leaves duty station, the other
pilot must wear O2 mask <135.89(b)(4)>.

[Benhurst]

21. How sad. But think how different things might have been on

9/11 if The United States had be guarded by the Greek Air Force. "Greek F-16 fighter jets were scrambled when contact with the Helios Airways plane was lost... ."

I wonder how much the "Grecians" would charge to advise us on "homeland" security.

[wli]

24. big hint: c.f. Operation Vigilant Guardian and Tripod II n/t