We should be WELCOMING those that are waking up!!

[KarenInMA]

When you see people who are scrapping off their Bush sticker, realizing (too late) that the war is wrong, etc etc, instead of telling them to fuck off, or laughing at them, how about gently pointing them in the direction of the DSM? How about having a little convo, to see if you chip some other lies away?

You know, instead of alienating them so they continue to think that Democrats are assholes? You need to realize that while we may have all these "moral victories" we won't have an electoral victory until MORE PEOPLE VOTE FOR US!!!

So if you see a pod person breaking out today, try and remember that 06 is right around the corner, and with a little (gentle) push, they may be voting Dem for the first time ever.

[SteppingRazor]

1. Point definitely taken. But what brought on this rant, if I may ask?

[KarenInMA]

2. this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4354336&mesg_id=4354336

[ray of light]

26. great point!

And we need to form our grassroots NOW. When you see people naysaying the progressives taking back the House/Senate, then remember, if we do it the "old fashioned" way, they may be right! BUT we're going to do it the NEW WAY--and that's working now and working on building grassroots locally now and being the media NOW. We're not going to wait until 06 to get off the couch, are we?

Start the process today--join http://www.democracycellproject.net and register in the forum, then post your group in "my cell". We're trying to build and tighten these roots now.

[Inland]

57. I get the impression its not all about politics

in that particular relationship.

[Pithlet]

3. I agree. People can grow, change and learn from their mistakes.

That is a good thing. That is something we progressives should welcome and encourage.

[Tesha]

9. Some can; some can't. (NT)

[Pithlet]

11. Yes, But, the ones that do

We should not alienate. That is the point.

[bejammin075]

28. I suported the war when i believed the lies

Now, I'm 24-7 trying to get Downing Street Memo awareness. It keeps me up at night.

I've never been active politically, but now I'm going to start working now with local dems to un-elect my republican rep and Rick Santorum. a Dem has already announced re-running in my district, and lost last time by 49%. She will win next time.

I want to print my own bumper stickers to make DSM awareness happen, even if someone tries to run me over.

I'm going to print waterproof bumper stickers that says "Bush's Iraq Lies" in huge letters (red background, leaving plain white letters) and slap them on stop signs below the "stop" so that everyone who pulls up to a major stop sign in my district reads "Stop Bush's Iraq Lies". At least that's the plan.

Did I mention I'm not even a Democrat?

[kliljedahl]

40. Welcome to DU bejammin075

What can we do to help remove you completely from the Dark Side?


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[OneBlueSky]

4. ABSOLUTELY!!! . . . when people have been lulled into not thinking --

-- many for their entire adult lives -- getting them to wake up, think, and get pissed is something to celebrate . . .

making people think is one of the real benefits of what Cindy Sheehan is doing in Crawford . . .

[Lorien]

5. Amen

We'll attract more flies (and cockroaches) with honey than with vinegar.

[WilliamPitt]

6. Correct

[Wabbajack]

7. What does DSM mean?

[KarenInMA]

10. Downing Street Memo.

Please, please PLEASE take the next 10-15 minutes and read this:

www.downingstreetmemo.com

Edi- because I'm an idiot, and the damn thing is in my sig line anyway.

[Tesha]

14. Probably "Downing Street Memo" (the Brit memo about the reasons for war)

[FightingIrish]

8. These people are going to be an important part of

the turnaround. They will have great message and we should keep them motivated to spread it.

[Norquist Nemesis]

12. Invite them to a meetup or if you have a Democratic rep

who is around your area, tell them you'll buy them a cup of coffee and invite them to go with you to see the Rep. :) Afterward, you'll have an opportunity to discuss things in a calm, rational way. If they start talking about 'fringe elements', 'communisists', socialist ideas, etc., you'll be able to counter with both sides having extreme elements...then say, "isn't it great that WE can be reasonable?" Then, shift the conversation to what they agree with vs. a debate/argument of the the two parties.

[SunDrop23]

13. AGREE 100%

[Tsiyu]

15. Not long ago, I would have said "no feckin' way"

to this post, but I am past the anger. I've been deluded about a few things myself, so why judge anyone else more harshly at this point? What will it gain anyone?

Plus, even many of my Dem friends are clueless. It will take the same amount of time to educate each type.

[pecwae]

16. No kidding!

The blinders seem to be falling away from many eyes. My own very southern brothers included. Yeah, it sucks that it took so long but I can't remember a time in 52 years that this country has ever been under such a concerted psyops campaign that somehow proved black was white, up was down, fear the emotion of the day. If they're waking up by all means assist them.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

38. Yes, but are they going to continue to vote for the Repub brand name?

[progressivebydesign]

17. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I really don't even care that it might be gas prices that wake them up.. as long as they see the light. Sometimes it takes one thing like gas prices to start people thinking... then it just starts to pile on.

You're a nice person, and I appreciate your sentiment. I try to think of the person first, then the politics. Keeps you sane. :hi:

[gratuitous]

18. Indeed we should welcome them

But let's make sure the point of the lesson isn't lost on our new-found bestest buddies. Because in my experience, folks can change their minds temporarily due to high gas prices but once those prices come back down a little or they get used to them, the same old Republican memes start tumbling out of their fool mouths again.

There's no sense (though it's perfectly understandable from a human nature standpoint) in taunting someone who's just figured out that installing two Texas oilmen and a compliant Congress may not be the smartest thing this country has ever done, but we need to be sure that this person has as much information as possible to make their sudden return to sanity permanent.

[tx_dem41]

19. Some people would rather experience personal satisfaction...

than actually effect a change through power.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

20. Completely agree. (nt)

[mopaul]

21. yes, i'm actually a republican, and i will again make us lose the election

[tx_dem41]

22. Dangit, Mopaul

Don't do it again, for the third time running. ;)

[anarch]

23. good point

The only hope for democracy is for people to come together and recognize the need for us to take our country back from the criminals who have stolen it. As for issues of not-so-totally-urgent importance as, well, saving the world from the insane oil-thugs who seem hell bent on killing us all...how about we try something wild and crazy like solving disagreements by means of actual discourse and debate? How about a real participatory democracy? How about real discussion instead of hate-filled rhetoric and pointless slander?

Hell, I doubt any person on this site would agree 100% with another on every issue...at this point in history, I think we can agree to disagree on certain things, as long as we can all agree that democracy is preferable to fascism and oligarchy.

[Jade Fox]

24. Many of these people will be back with the GOP as soon as gas prices...

go down, or Bushco "withdraws" from Iraq. Many of them are mostly mad
because Bush has turned out to be a lousy Republican, and bailed on
virtually every promise he made to his supporters.

I can't share your optimism. I wish I could. Yes, there may be some smart,
honorable people who voted for Bush, but it's hard to imagine there are
many of them.

If the people who brought this disaster on America aren't held accountable,
they will NEVER learn. And they may do it again.

[tamtam]

43. Yup I agree (eom)

[southlandshari]

25. This thread just jumped to the Greatest page!

And I am proud to have made the third recommendation that landed it there.

Very well said, KarenInMA.

:applause:

[Just Me]

27. I completely agree.

Thank you so much for this OP!! :hug: There's a LOT of Americans that took this regime's honesty, "goodness" and integrity completely for granted. What American wants to discover s/he has been betrayed and exploited by his/her own leadership? It's a devastating discovery and, frankly, those who are waking up to that reality should be given support.

[pamela]

29. Can't we taunt them a bit first and then welcome them?

Just kidding. I agree with you but it's really hard sometimes.

[FlemingsGhost]

30. Voting won't solve the problem, this time.

That's what these ("pod") people will learn in '06.

Lagging behind, yet again ...

[Peace Patriot]

31. "...we won't have an electoral victory until MORE PEOPLE VOTE FOR US!!"

We won't have an electoral victory until we dump electronic voting machines owned and controlled by Bushite companies, with their SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code, into Boston Harbor!!!!

[Vincardog]

34. Exactly we have to get the freaking corporations out of our elections

[KarenInMA]

54. yo- my Harbor's dirty enough as it is !!

We don't need that trash! ;)

[Tuesday_Morning]

32. Just got back...

from a long, hot car trip into south Dade County. Very suburban, it went a little more red than blue (supposedly) in the last election. It was my second trip this week.

But both times - not a single W bumper sticker to be seen. They used to be all over the place down there. I did see a handful of Kerry stickers though and a "Don't blame me, I didn't vote for him".

People seem to be distancing themselves from this disaster.

[Pobeka]

33. Yes. We only win with votes. You can garner them or lose them.

It's that simple.

Some people who are waking up are just now seeing through the fog of corporate media, and they sincerely didn't know * was an imbecile guided by his greedy handlers. Give them your information, not your wrath (even if they deserve it).

[Holly_Hobby]

35. I'm new here and no one has responded to my posts

or even said Hello. I get the impression that I'm tolerated, but not welcomed. It makes me want to take my ball and go home.

[faithnotgreed]

36. im not sure what youre saying here but welcome to the board

i see you have 11 posts so im not sure what impression of tolerance youre feeling from those 11 posts

but if i take what you say seriously then please know there are thousands of members here so if your post is overlooked then please be assured it is likely not from what youve posted but just the sheer volume of posts and members (you can check that out for yourself on the main page where it lists overall number of members and posts)

im sure you understand that with lots of members - and newcomers all the time - there are a great number of topics being discussed

were glad you are here and hope you will post with the understanding that there are a great many people from which to learn

have fun and hope you will stick around so we can get to know you

[AmBlue]

37. Welcome, Holly_Hobby

This the first I'm seeing you here. Don't take your ball anywhere. We're happy you're here...... It's good place. Lots to learn. Welcome!! :hi:

[GreenPartyVoter]

39. Oh, I felt that way when I first got here too. Except I wasn't

ignored.. I was lambasted. *g*

Stick around. It's worth it. :)

[anarch]

42. hello and welcome

not that I'm much less of a newbie myself, but you shouldn't take it personally...there are thousands of people here at any one time, so the odds are most of anybody's posts will get ignored...

[Pobeka]

44. Hello Holly Hobby.

Don't take lack of responses personal. It probably means people just agree with what you said.

At least that's how I rationalize it.

Some of us who've been around a while even like to tout how we can stop the activity on a thread with a single post.

Welcome to DU!
:bounce: :)

[ContraBass Black]

47. Hello.

Just keep posting and you won't be lost in the shuffle.

[Catch22Dem]

49. Stick around Holly

This is the first time I've seen you. Sometimes it takes a little while for a new face to get some recognition. You'll soon realize this is a great bunch and I'm sure we'll soon realize the same about you. :D

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. don't feel that way,

at times, especially when the place is very active, they just drop from so fast it ain't even funny

Hello, welcome to DU

[KarenInMA]

55. HI!

There are a lot of people here saying stuff all at the same time. Don't take it personally.

[walldude]

60. Well, if you are for real then stick it out

I find it unusual that you didn't get any welcomes, usually you get tons. On the other hand we have been dealing with alot of trolls and disruptors and most new people are viewed with a certain amount of skepticism. Don't sweat the small stuff, stick it out for awhile, you'll probably like what you see.....

Oh and Welcome to DU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On edit- Sorry if that sounded kind of harsh I didn't mean it to be. I do know how you feel, I spent a couple days writing a song for Cindy, I thought it was pretty good too. I posted it, kicked it twice and got very little response. Lucky for me one of the responses was from someone very close to Cindy and and now the song is making it's way to Crawford!!!!

[flaminbats]

64. it happens to all new posters..

some days I've posted over twenty opinions, and with no response. Other days I'll post nothing, while still receiving responses from something I posted over a month ago!!

It takes patience, wit, and thick skin. Read what you enjoy, and always show other posters the same courtesy you expect from them. Welcome to DU!! ;)

[FreedomAngel82]

41. It's good to consider

Ask them why they're now not supporting Bush. See if they're going to vote in the midterms and try to vote democratic. Don't just spring on them of course but bring it out slowly and surely. I think it's important to know. It takes a lot to show that you were wrong about who you voted for. That's why I do massive research before I consider a canidate. I don't want to regret anything. But I think it's a good sign and gives me hope for the country.

[Uncle Joe]

45. I think of them as being disconnected from

the "Matrix" (see movie for details) when they wake up. This Matrix was created by the collapse of American Journalism. Many of them are innocent well meaning people, that have just been brainwashed by the corpwhorate owned media monopoly which enabled the corrupt incompetent ones to power in the first place. We have an extremely dangerous dysfuntional media controlled in large part by the people that profit from war. It has conglomerated to the point were five corporations own 80+% of our entire national media. All you have to do is get on the wrong or right side of the CEOs or major stock owners of these corporations and you will be trashed or sanctified. American media looks out for American Corporations first, last and in the middle.

Just for kicks, click on The Daily Howler's website and google "War against Gore" to see how we came to this place that we as a nation are at now.

http://dailyhowler.com/

[etherealtruth]

46. I am with you 100% !!!!

Thank you for your clear well thought out post.

[deadparrot]

48. I will gladly welcome them...

may more and more start to realize what kind of danger our country is in.

However, on the subject of the 2004 election: if they voted for Bush, I find it nearly impossible to sympathize if/when something bad happens to them. I absolutely do not *wish* harm on these people, but when they lose their job, or can't afford to pay $100 for a tank of gas in their SUV, or when a pro-choice Bush voter bemoans the possibility that Roe might be overturned, the best I can muster is a :shrug:. I don't rub it in their face, but I also can't say, "Gee golly, I'm so, so, sorry. You were duped, and none of this is your doing."

I'm sorry if that makes me a bad liberal. I just feel like during the election cycle last year, the choice was *so* clear. And with longtime rights now on the brink of extinction, my bleeding heart has, in a way, bled dry for the 2004 Bush crowd.

[ComerPerro]

50. I can't promise not to laugh at their plight

Some of them truly deserve the horrible things that Bush has done to them, in my opinion.

Thats the price of blind faith.

But I will try not to laugh. Depends on the person, and how big of an asshole they were.

And how open they are to listening to Democratic positions.

Some of them who were burned by Bush are waking up but still say "at least he's not a Democrat".

The new GOP mantra seems to be "Things would be much worse if the Democrats were in control"

That's how they are keeping the party faithful

[lildreamer316]

51. This so needed to be said.

I'd been mulling it over for a few days but I would have been more long-winded. Thank you.

[stepnw1f]

52. Constructive

Here Here!

[Nothing Without Hope]

56. I strongly agree. We must reach out to the disaffected and join forces.

We can argue about the traditional progressive/conservative (I mean REAL conservative, not the neocon radicals in power) issues later, AFTER we save the country from these bugnuts greedy fascists.

We progressives can't win this alone, and we shouldn't be disheartened by this. Instead, it's time to reach out and offer a positive alternative to the horror of the neocons. The brainwashing into belief that there is no other choice, no hope of progressive change, is one of the neocons' most potent weapons. Instead of despair, let's offer them hope and real choices, steps to take our country back.

[benburch]

58. We interrupt this thread...

[leeroysphitz]

59. Nope.

Fuck 'em. Let them STEW for a while. This whole situation is a BIG shit sandwhich. They made it themselves for EVERYONE to eat. Why shouldn't they have to eat the bigger share?

[mopaul]

62. I like to hold grudges and give like i get

turn the tables around: what if we'd turned on our boy clinton, would they have been forgiving and understanding and refrained from saying 'fuck you, you voted for clinton'??? no.

[leeroysphitz]

65. I'd give the left portion of my reproductive system

to get Bill Clinton back as president and I am not typically one to hold any sort of grudge (honestly) but still I say to hell with these short sighted, ignorant and above all FICKLE mouth-breathers. I say if they can't keep up with politics then they should go back to voting for American Idol and waiting to see the next Britney spears reality T.V. (or any reality T.V. show) episode. I love Democracy and representational gov't but I truly wish that more of these trailer trash, nascar-zombie, Bubba 6-pack, toothless, barely educated, 2nd hand financed to the gills suv driving, ditto head, RACIST, BIGOTED, confederate flag waving, yahoo, sons of the south, hill-billy, mouth-breathing, nra member, chicken-hawk, good ole boy Hoover era throw-backs (who aren't even rich capitalist fat cats!!!!!!!) would have at least had the common courtesy to have forgotten to vote (or breath.)

They've had their fun playing war now it's time for the adults to step in and put these unruly CHILDREN to bed...

[graywarrior]

61. Pass no judgement.

Mr. Graywarrior says that to me constantly, especially when we're behind a car with a Bush sticker and "fuck you, dipshit" rolls off my lips. "Pass no judgement on them, pass no judgment on yourself."

[journalist3072]

63. I'm sorry, but I feel the need to be selfish for a minute...

I can't help but be glad that these folks are experiencing buyer's regret. They should have educated themselves on the issues before they went into the voting booth.