Sick of gas prices ... ( rant)

[earthmama]

It went up AGAIN. It is now 2.59 a gallon. This is crazy. I am a stay at home mother living right down to the penny. I can not afford to pay more in gas. It would be better if we lived in a place that had better public transportation. Here is Charlotte/Concord you have to DRIVE everywhere. 15 min to get food.

What the hell is going on? I keep hearing that oil companies are having a record breaking profit, then I hear that oil went up because of the Saud's prince dying, then I hear that Venezuela raised there prices cause they do not like America ... What is the truth?

I am convinced that the oil companies are cutting some of there profits to the bush fuck heads so they can keep the oil this high such ...

What can we do? Probably nothing. It is not like we can protest and not buy gas until it comes down.

*end of rant*

Thanks!!

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. It is terrible. Not one politician has called for conservation measures

A lot of folks are hurting, and it's not getting better.

Where are our supposed leaders?

This can't be allowed to continue.

[all.of.me]

14. i think i will take some action on this

it has to stop. if people can't pay to get to work, and if bosses can't pay more to keep them there, then what will happen?! it feels like things will come to a screeching halt.

[Cobalt Violet]

26. I'm at the point now where the price of getting to work is too high.

Not worth it.

[all.of.me]

28. is that a catch-22 or what?!

[losdiablosgato]

35. It's the economy stupid, just remember that.

[JPZenger]

45. High Gas Prices Are Good for the Environment

Many people don't want to hear this, but high gas prices are good for the environment. They discourage waste, including those obnoxious suburban assault vehicles. They encourage use of mass transit and freight rail transportation. By reducing unnecessary driving, they avoid the need for expensive highway widening and reduce air pollution.

By promoting conservation and hybrid vehicles, they reduce our dependence on overseas oil, which helps our minimize our overseas trade deficits. High gas prices also discourage sprawl into farmland and forests, and thereby promote redevelopment of our cities and other older communities.

[earthmama]

50. Good for the environment yes but good for my family NO

I do care about the environment. I think hybrids are good. But here is the thing ...

On my list of priorities ... the environment is not in the top 5. Providing for my family comes first.

Sure getting a hybrid would help but I can not pull cash out of my ass when I struggle to stay at home with my daughter.


All I am trying to say is the big picture is good but the everyday crap sucks and people need to be realistic and look at balance. We can say the environment and such but then there are families that can not make it cause they have to go to work and can't afford to.

[B3Nut]

63. I hate the high prices, but...

...if it gets those gaz-guzzling vehicular abortions like Hummers and Escalades off the road, I'll consider it a silver lining to an otherwise black cloud.

Need to haul big stuff? Get a real cargo van or real pickup truck, those can get real work done. Most SUV drivers use 'em as an overgrown sedan...pointless.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[rwheeler31]

2. Have your SO tell the boss I cannot

afford to work here anymore.

[earthmama]

5. I wish it was that easy ...

we need the job. I think we are going to try to move closer to his work so either he can walk or it is just a short drive

[Fovea]

8. I think that is your best option.

Because gas is not going to go down from here.

[earthmama]

30. we have to wait until Feb.

our lease is up then and we are so moving. Rent is a little higher around his work but I don't mind paying as long as it means less gas

[lildreamer316]

3. Hey!! I'm in NC also.

Jamestown (just up 85 about 45 min from ya) I stay at home too. there are many "reasons" for the hike but the main one is greed. Peruse the General Discussion and you will see alot of threads on this issue....

[earthmama]

6. Cool ...

I try to keep up with the General Discussion .... alot going on in there ..

[MissB]

4. The one thing you can do

is to pool your trips. Don't run to the grocery store for one thing. Do without and wait until the weekly (or bi-weekly) shopping trip.

I'm a sahm myself. I've found that limiting my trips to once a week or twice a week helps cut the fuel costs. I shop for groceries once every two weeks, and I'm learning to do without instead of hopping in the car to run and get that last thing that I need. It is a bit of a change for me. I simply can't afford to squeeze an extra $20 or $30 out of my budget for the increased gas prices.

[earthmama]

7. thanks

I have been doing that. It is hard. I usually forget one or 2 things. Thanks for the advice. Good luck!!

[Gatchaman]

9. In addition to limiting your trips...

...start limiting your spending on everything. Even if you have the extra money, leave those DVDs on the rack. Leave the latest trendy book on the shelf. Stop clicking the "Keep Shopping" and "Checkout Now" buttons on your favorite ecommerce site. Don't even go to the mall.

I know we can't stop buying everything, but even a short "strike" by not buying non-essential goods will be noticed.

[KeepItReal]

11. That is good advice...Even though Bush & Co. say "Keep Shopping"

I'd trust *YOUR* judgement over those fools.

[earthmama]

32. Done that already !!

I started doing that before the gas started going up. Trying to have a simple life with out tons of material items. I don't want my daughter growing up thinking that she needs material items .... anyways that is another topic.

We are cutting back even more. Consignment stores only for clothes, using cloth diapers more and we are buying more 'staples' for the pantry and just eating that. So far the farmers market is around.

[Lars39]

15. I've had to become a list and menu maker.

It's time consuming, but master lists and menues help out in the long run.

[earthmama]

33. Doesn't that make a difference?

I stared doing that and I am only shopping 2 times a month ( farmers market one a week) and I lowered our grocery bill from 500$ to 180$

[Lars39]

73. That's pretty good savings!

Takes time to cook from scratch, though.
I don't see how couples with 3 or more jobs between them do it. :(

[earthmama]

74. took me a while to get use to it

I buy in bulk and cook every night. I freeze alot to. When I make baked ziti ... I make 4 and freeze them all.

[Lars39]

76. Feed the freezer!

Versions of OAMC has saved us a lot of money over the years. :)

[Strelnikov_]

10. Peak Oil Has Arrived. That Is, The Worldwide Maximum Rate Of Production

Prepare for rationing within the year.

The current high prices are probably the market signal that peak oil is near or has arrived. If this is indeed the case, prices will never come down, outside of minor short term reductions.

Specifically,

- The (often) promised increases in production by the world's last swing producer, Saudi Arabia, are not occurring.

- Demand is not being reduced by higher prices (that is why they call it price inelastic, after all).

Oil traders are coming to the conclusion that the tight market (demand ~ peak supply) over the last year may be a chronic condition. Now, couple with that with geopolitics. That is, developing crises in:

- Iran
- Venezuela
- Nigeria
- Insurgency in Saudi Arabia

And mother nature:

- Susceptibility to hurricanes of a significant part of US domestic production.

You have all the ingredients for an oil shock. Remember, the 73 oil shock was a 10% shortfall that resulted in a quadrupling of oil prices.

Considering that just one of the above would result in a 10% or larger shortfall (a couple are Armageddon level events), due to the current market imbalance I think the probability of a massive oil shock in the next year is about 100%.

As for collusion in pricing, there are too many disparate players on the supply end (Russia, Venezuela, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, among others) to form a conspiracy.

[90-percent]

12. I find it comforting

that crude has skyrocketed but Big Oil can still somehow find a way to make RECORD PROFITS!

They're passing the increased cost on to the consumer and passing the increased need for obscene profit on to the consumer, too!

Uh, just which one of us is letting them get away with this?

-85%

[Strelnikov_]

19. It Is Due To The Failure Of The Free Market System So Many Worship

The futures market is bidding up the price for a fungible, price inelastic commodity, in short supply. Those holding the oil will make a fortune. The process is somewhat similar to when drug dealers jack up the price during a 'panic' (shortage). The addicts have no choice than to pay whatever the price.

Oil will now be rationed by demand destruction. That is, those willing to pay the price will get product. Witness the oil shortages now taking place in Indonesia, the Phillipines and China.

Overall, this is an example of how the ‘market’ system is dysfunctional when it comes to infrastructure planning. In this case, the energy and transport infrastructure. Because of the lead times required to transform the energy infrastructure once the ‘market’ signals a problem, massive economic distress is now unavoidable, as concluded in the following report prepared for the DOE.

Peaking of World Oil Production: Impacts, Mitigation and Risk Management.
Hirsch, Bezdek, Wendling, February 2005

www.projectcensored.org/newsflash/The_Hirsch_Report_Proj_Cens.pdf

. . .

Because conventional oil production decline will start at the time of peaking, crash program mitigation inherently cannot avert massive shortages unless it is initiated well in advance of peaking.

Specifically,
* Waiting until world conventional oil production peaks before initiating crash program mitigation leaves the world with a significant liquid fuel deficit for two decades or longer.
* Initiating a crash program 10 years before world oil peaking would help considerably but would still result in a worldwide liquid fuels shortfall, starting roughly a decade after the time that oil would have otherwise peaked.
* Initiating crash program mitigation 20 years before peaking offers the possibility of avoiding a world liquid fuels shortfall for the forecast period.

Without timely mitigation, world supply/demand balance will be achieved through massive demand destruction (shortages), accompanied by huge oil price increases, both of which would create a long period of significant economic hardship worldwide.

[rockymountaindem]

23. The oil market is not a "free" market.

A truly free market works well. However, a market that is controlled like a cartel by a few corporations (as the oil market is) is no more free than an old-style command economy. If the oil companies were truly in competition, that would help bring the prices down. Imagine, th BP station trying to have lower prices than the Conoco station across the street. Ever see that?

You probably don't, because the oil companies all go along with each other to keep prices high.

As for peak oil, it's out there, but as long as oil companies are making record profits off this, peak oil isn't the only reason prices are so high. They'll use any excuse to raise prices, whether it really matters or not.

[Strelnikov_]

25. Then It Appears We Are In Disagreement

My post outlines why waiting for a 'market' signal is too late. Therefore, a failure of the market system. Infrastructure planning takes, well, planning. Waiting for a shortage is not planning.

As for 'controlled like a cartel by a few corporations', what corporations would these be? BP? Exxon? Shell? The House of Saud? Iran? Kuwait? Russia? Venezuela? Mexico? Nigeria?

[tx_dem41]

37. Most consumers are letting them get away with this.

That's how supply and demand works. If someone is willing to pay a ridiculous price for your product, why should you feel obligated to lower the price?

[TX-RAT]

56. Nice observation

One of the few that recognize the real problem here.

[tx_dem41]

59. Why thanks, TX-RAT. It must be a ...

"TX" thing. :)

[all.of.me]

13. it's freaking me out, too

my work is seasonal, and winter is coming. i have one kid in school 15 minutes north, and one 15 minutes south. we are looking into public transportation for the high schooler, since she has cheerleading practice EVERY DAY after school. i can't drive down there every day to pick her up. that's what school busses are for!

i have always been good about cramming a ton of errands into one trip - i lived through the 1974 'embargo' so i learned that trick when i was young.

but still... the whole gas situation scares me.

[markam]

16. It is going to get much worse

Learn about Peak Oil. Prepare yourself.

Oil will only go down if sufficient demand destruction occurs. This will only occur as a result of a serious world-wide recession. Even then a price drop will only be temporary, as oil production capacity is going to drop every year.

The potential problems we will see in the next 20 years will probably be worse than any that the human race has ever incurred. There are too many people, and the world economy is just too interconnected and fragile. It is going to shatter.

[earthmama]

40. That is all I have been reading ...

about peak oil. that is freaking scary man!!

I got in to some debates on some parenting boards about this. People saying that peak oil is a bunch of crap. Stupid miss informed people actually saying that peak oil is made up be liberals. Even said that peak oil was the cause of the lack of oil in the 70's when it was the embargo.

Actually looking forward to what these people are gonna say when peak is here.

[cbear70]

17. rant continued

I agree... I live in Iowa and nothing is close. Last night it was 2.31 and this morning it was 2.49... that is one hell of a jump. I too am a stay at home mom and ends are barely meeting and I can't even find a freaking job.

ok done...that feels much better.:rant:

[uppityperson]

18. Guy@ local feed store complaining about oil companies making huge profits

This is the same feed store that gloated at me when Mr.bush "won again", he'll keep us safe, flipflopper, etc. One of the older guys was complaining at me today when I was shocked at it taking $40 to fill my tank. He was complaining about the oil companies, Exxon by name, making huge profits and that the extra money should be going into taxes rather than executives pockets. "Of course those of us that invest in the stock market like big dividends but this is too much", don't know how I'll make it, food prices will go up, etc.

I listened and was pleased. Gas prices are shocking and they are beginning to notice.

[pepper86]

20. Food or Gas?

VIVA LA BUSH! I see that on the back bumper of a Ford Excursion belonging to a white collar soccer mom.It makes me sick. They are truely supporting their president financially, he isnt doing a damn thing about it because he gets personal profit from him. *mean face* I feel sorry for laborers they need their big trucks to carry tools and materials my family has been effected by the rising gas prices because thats what they do. But I'm proud to say my family tried to keep the bushes out of office, we all voted democratic this year being my first year to vote. I was glad to help out the Kerry/Edwards campaign in my area I wanted to get involved!

[yankeefanatic3]

21. Welcome to DU, pepper86! n/t

[uppityperson]

22. Welcome to DU, gas or food is becoming a choice.

We all are affected by rising gas prices. Have you checked out the increased cost of fresh produce recently?

Welcome to DU

[jim3775]

24. $1.04/L in Canada, I just did the math...

converted the currency and adjusted the measurment, that comes to
$3.27/g USD.

[earthmama]

29. shit that is high.

I feel bad going on about 2.59 here. I am sorry

[booksenkatz]

49. Apples & oranges

There are a whooooooooooooooooooooole lot of things that my Canuck pals get from their government that we Murkans do not get. If I could depend upon my government to provide me with health care and prescription drugs, I wouldn't mind paying more for gasoline. But we pay through the nose for health care AND prescription drugs AND so much of the money we're paying for gasoline goes directly into the pockets of the fat cats -- it does nothing to help our society. If it did, I wouldn't bitch.

[earthmama]

53. True True and true

On top of the high gas prices we pay here , we also have to buy our own health insurance. It is so high for my daughter and Husband that we can not afford to cover me. Yes it would be more $$$ if I need the docs but it is a sacrifice I am making.

[oldhippie]

27. We need price controls........

get gasoline prices back to the $1.00-1.50 they should be. Screw the big oil companies. We need the gas to get to work.

It's worked before.

[tx_dem41]

34. You want gas at 1.00-1.50 while the oil companies are paying

$65/barrel? And you think that will get you the gas you need???

With your plan, good luck getting gas at all.

[jayfish]

60. Hogwash!

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1029991

<SNIP>
Aug. 11, 2005 — As American consumers increasingly feel the pinch at the pump, oil companies have watched their profits soar.

The newest numbers from the second quarter of this year show Exxon Mobil with a 32 percent increase in earnings over this time last year — that's more than $7.6 billion.

BP saw a profit increase of 38 percent, totaling $6.7 billion, while Conoco Phillips — the third largest oil company in the country — recorded a 56 percent increase in profit, more than $3 billion.

"The huge profits are enormous because the public is drastically overpaying what it costs to produce," said Joan Claybrook, president of the consumer advocacy group Public Citizen.
</SNIP>

Jay

[tx_dem41]

61. Yes....I acknowledge the profits....

but you haven't shown me how cutting the prices by 60% are going to allow anyone to still make a profit, without doing anything about the cost of production.

You can't just blindly slap a price control on without dealing with the costs inherent in the industry. That would be simply...irresponsible.

[jayfish]

64. What Do We Really Know About The Cost...

of production? Of course we can't just slap a control on the price. But I think that post was more "stream of thought" than a carefully thought out plan to lower oil prices. If it were up to me energy would be nationalized in this country. IMO, There are some things that should not be left to the free market.

Jay

[tx_dem41]

65. If we nationalized the energy industry...

we take all competition out of the energy market and we are at the mercy of the entity that no one on this board seems to trust...the government. I am not naive enough to believe that the situation as it exists today is close to ideal, but I do know that nationalizing the energy market would make the industry a monopoly at the whim of politicians. The last 5 years have shown that this can truly be a nightmare.

[TX-RAT]

67. If it were up to me energy would be nationalized in this country

Please explain how that would change anything?
Do you think the 37 oil producing states are willing to give up this income?

If you think gas is high now, just wait until the feds try to produce and operate the oil industry's. The though of adding on several million new federal employees kinda scares me a little.

[jayfish]

69. Ya, Nothing Like Several Million People Getting Jobs.

These are the same arguments used to stop the nationalization of health care in this country. There has to be a better way.

Jay

[TX-RAT]

71. What about the several million that already have those jobs?

All you'll do is make them federal employees, you think that will bring down prices? If anything the cost will go up.

[tx_dem41]

31. What is going on is the theory of supply and demand.

The demand does not seem to be abating due to the higher prices. Supply is getting more expensive to obtain and maintain.

With these factors (and others) why in the hell should the price go down?

[Ganja Ninja]

38. It's been a long time coming but gas is still cheap ...

by world standards. While it may be painful for us, in the long run it will be good for the planet. Truthfully we should have been paying this price years ago. We should have had a fairly large tax on gas all along. We wouldn't be in the mess we are right now if people were used to the idea that gas is a finite resource. We wouldn't have the environmental problems, we wouldn't have anywhere near the national debt and we wouldn't have the political problems caused by putting too much wealth in the hands of middle eastern despots.

[tx_dem41]

48. I don't disagree with anything you wrote.

But, I do have a problem with that pic of Novakula. I need coffee.

[mikeytherat]

36. mid-1990s Ford Escort Wagon

1.9 litre EFI engine+five-speed manual transmission=35 mpg in town and 40+ on the highway at 65-70mph. Fold the rear seats down and you can haul tons of stuff! You can get a good one with about 60,000 miles on it for about $2,000.

I have two BMWs that stay parked a lot more than they used to, and the Esquirt (my "beater") is getting used a LOT.

Apparently, the gas pinch is not hitting us in Central Virginia like elsewhere -- I traveled on I-95 last night at 65mph (the limit) and EVERY other car on the road blew past me, many doing at least 15-20mph over the limit.

mikey_the_rat

[mtnsnake]

39. Don't feel bad. I drive 30-35,000 miles/yr in my business. OUCH!!!

I don't even want to do the math on how much more it's going to cost me this year to make a living, compared to only a year ago. This really sucks!

on edit: The vehicle I have to drive in my business is a 4 wheel drive pickup, which is not the most gas-friendly thing to drive, if you know what I mean.

[JNelson6563]

41. $2.75 here

seems to go up a couple of times a day.

[doc03]

42. I installed an electric heat pump with a

resistance back-up unit. Of course that cost money to install but my furnace and AC were 25 years old and needed replaced anyway. This will save 600 gallons of oil yearly since none of our electric is generated from oil. I have a pickup that gets 20 mpg and a car that gets 34 mpg, I am not driving my pickup unless I need to haul something or tow my boat. On edit: You think gas prices are bad my neighbor had fuel oil delivered last week $2.16 a gallon and that is the (summer) price when cold weather comes watch out.

[newportdadde]

43. Supply and demand but gouging is playing a large role also.

If the oil compaines were purely passing on a rise in the cost of supply then their profits should stay about the same %. This however is not the case they are posting large gains in profits. They have used the cost of crude to bump it a little, they have an excuse(crude oil) and a cooperative congress to play along. Lo and behold we keep buying it, they tick it up a little more and a little more etc.

Until we begin seeing a shift in lifestyle we have no chance of it going down. Even with that shift given the rising demand in countries like China there will still be pressure on the price.

What we seeing now is the fruits of late 90s cheap gas. Gas got cheap along with wages going up, automakers went full bore SUV with the poorer gas mileage, now like the muscle cars of the 70s SUVs are falling out of favor but its going to take awhile.

Right now in KC I still see so many people heading to the lake each Friday to drop hundreds of dollars in the tank of a boat. More then that I see a TON of Ford F-150s and now the Medium sized doge trucks with the crome wheels etc, the V-10s that seem so very popular here. At this point 2.55 isn't high enough, maybe 3, or even 4 will do it.. but of course I thought 2 would have had more impact then it did.

[TX-RAT]

58. And the cycle continues, good answer.

I believe this too will pass.

[brokensymmetry]

44. Peak Oil - and why prices will skyrocket

The problem is, oil is deeply embedded in our lives. We very nearly can't do without it. Public transportation, in many areas, is sadly inadequate. Bikes are great - but the SUV drivers WILL hit bikers with those extended mirrors.

So, here's a model of why oil will shoot up - not original with me, BTW -

Suppose you have some very affluent people who have just gone up in the space shuttle. Everything is going fine for the 12 fortunate folks - the view is great!

And then, a problem develops. There is only enough air for 11. Rationing the air means that all will suffocate. Somehow, it must be allocated.

So...the passengers start bidding for the air. How much is a gulp of air worth, now?

And then, while one of the twelve is turning blue and gasping - a further failure means there is only enough air for ten. How much is the air up to?

A flawed analogy? Yes, in some ways. But chillingly close to the truth in others.

[Stockholm]

46. Is high gas prices a necessarily evil?

People who voted for * will not come around until they suffer from conservative policies themselves.

Ending the dependency on oil is the only answer, and that´s not gonna happen when * energy policy is written by Exxon.

Protest, protest, protest.

[earthmama]

51. protest YES ...

but how? Give me a good idea and a plan and I am there!

[Roland99]

47. Welcome to DU, earthmama!

And revel in your cheap gas prices. $2.69-$2.71 here.

[earthmama]

52. Merci! Where are you at?

[Roland99]

55. Louisville, KY. Gas has risen about $0.40 in the last week.

[earthmama]

75. that sucks ...

I haven't been out today yet.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

54. The hustle is on, speculators driving up price and making millions off it.

[malta blue]

57. I spent $41 this morning!

Gas was at $2.63 and that was the cheapest I could find. Considering I have to fill up my tank 2 times a week just to get to and from work (and no, I do not drive an SUV), soon I won't be able to afford to go to work!:wtf:

[LostinVA]

62. Am picking up my Golf TDI this afternoon

I agonized between that and the Civic Hybrid, but with the TDI I can use biodiesel most of the year... although that won't save me money unless I start cooking my own... which I plan to do, if I can figure out how to do it.

[BiggJawn]

66. What are you griping about? The Dutch pay $6.59 a gallon....

That's what I was told last week by a poster here. :sarcasm:

I asked for clarification, you know, wanted to make sure we weren't comparing apples and oranges.
I asked for info on what your "Average" Nederlander brought home a week in Euros, and I asked if he was trying to tell me that your average Nederlander was actually spending more than $450 a month for gasoline.

He hasn't gotten back to me.

Must have crashed his computer......

Maybe the powers that be will do something now that Wally-World is squeeling that they don't want to share our paychecks with the Oil industry...

[rman]

70. this again?...

Most of the cost of petrol in the Netherlands and other Eu counties is a fixed rate (aside from sales tax). The actual cost of the petrol itself is a relatively small amount of the total amount payed at the pump.

Also the average commuting distance in the US is much longer then in the Netherlands.

[BiggJawn]

72. You missed the "sarcasm" smilie?

Yes, we know all that. AND we also know that folks in the EU have Mass Transit, too, something that most murkans have NEVER seen, much less USED....

[colinmom71]

68. Yeah. You'd think the so-called "tax relief" President would...

Reduce or even lift the federal gasoline excise tax for a period of time to reduce the cost burden of higher gas prices in order to address this problem. Isn't that the Republican mantra? Reduce taxes as much as possible to keep the economy thriving?

And yet, we don't see that happening... All we see are our wallets being depleted while his pals in the oil and gasoline businesses pocket record profits.