N.J. Eatery Writes 'Jew Couple' on Check

[bluestateguy]

There was an incident like this last year in South Carolina where the server wrote "Nasty Nigger" on a man's receipt.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/17/D8C1R9882.html

The bill was a shocker, and not because of the amount. After eating at a Jersey shore restaurant, Elliott Stein and his girlfriend were handed a bill that said "Jew Couple" near the bottom, as a table identifier used by the waitstaff. The slur also turned up on Stein's credit card statement weeks later.

"My grandfather went through all that in old-school Europe," Stein, a New Yorker and a regular at the restaurant, told the New York Post. "But that happened more than 50 years ago. You don't expect it to happen in 2005."

The New Jersey Attorney General's Office said Wednesday it is investigating the July incident at Parkhill's Waterfront Grill through its Division on Civil Rights.

cut

The server, identified on the check only as Karina, is no longer working at the restaurant, general manager Malia Wells said Wednesday. Wells wouldn't say if it was because of the incident.

[despairing optimist]

1. Is Hal Turner waiting tables on the Jersey shore nowadays?

He must have fallen on hard times. See www.halturnershow.com if you can stand it. He's a New Jerseyan, and I'm quite sure in a very tiny minority among his fellow residents.

[theshadow]

29. My God, he is one nasty man.

How proud the local GOP must be to have him so active in their organization.

I checked the message boards..... pure Nazi stuff. Even the crash of the airliner in Greece was (to them) a sign of the mongrelization of the races, yada yada yada.

[despairing optimist]

31. I haven't checked out Hal's board recently

I get angry enough reading the news articles here without the help of Hal's, um, unique slant on the news. But he's still out there, diminished but present. Maybe my guess about the waitperson isn't too far off the mark.

Hal has a young son too. Poor kid. Screwing up a kid's mind is the worst way to abuse him, I think. He'll carry those scars for life.

[Mairead]

2. What exactly is being objected to?

The phrasing? Something else? If she'd written 'Jewish couple' would that have been okay? I don't get it.

[Warren DeMontague]

4. Are you serious?

How about if it was two gay people, and they wrote "Queers" on it? Hey, they're only being descriptive, right?

[Mairead]

21. Yes, I'm serious. Are you claiming that the problem is in the wording?

Would it have been okay if it had been "Jewish couple"?

[Swede]

27. You mean like saying "fag couple" or "chink couple"

Your either being disingenuous or your ignorant of history.

[Clark2008]

64. I don't get it, either and my fiance is half Jewish and half Swedish

dear.

Really. It was impolite as hell, but it wasn't a slur.

[Mairead]

74. Have you really thought about this?

Because you seem to be saying that "Jew" is a slur.

[Swede]

78. You just don't get it.

This Jewish couple was offended by the use of "jew couple". That should be good enough for you. "Nigger" comes from the word negro,that should tell you something. You wouldn't be asking this question if that was one a black couples bill,or would you?

[Mairead]

86. I don't think that it is I who doesn't get it

If I were the only White woman seated in a restaurant, it would not surprise or annoy me to see 'White woman' or some abbreviation therefor. Why should it? I might feel a little needled if it read 'old White woman' since at 65 I consider myself merely middle-aged, but what on earth would the payoff be for me to assume ageist malice? What could I get out of it? Answer me that.

[Swede]

91. THEY were offended by it.

Isn't that reason enough? Do you understand that? When someone offends women on DU and the offender doesn't think he is being offensive,does that stop it from being so? You know bitch is a female dog,why can't the waiter put that on your bill?

[Mairead]

104. People can 'be offended' by mistake. By misinterpreting.

Or they can 'be offended' by always thinking the worst. Or when they're the ones who are offensive. Someone who feels offended is not ipso facto a respectable victim of offence.

I've explained my position as well as I can. Sorry that it hasn't been good enough.

[Thtwudbeme]

108. "Jew Couple" is about as nasty as "Jew Boy"

This isn't that difficult is it?

Also that sort of labelling probably isn't need as "Table 24" would suffice. Ie. without the cultural labels.


But then again what do I know as I'm a mutt.

[Stephanie]

41. We used to do something like this all the time at the restaurant

When I was at the front door we'd write descriptions next to the names on the waiting list. We'd write "2♀" then we'd add "blue coat" or something descriptive. We never wrote "slut whore", though, for some reason. Oh yeah, because it would be WRONG.

[ernstbass]

80. I wrote little reminders when I was a waitress

I usually used initials to describe the table - never any racial or religios slurs but I remember writing F.P. for fat people once.

[johnaries]

83. I waited tables for 10 years and always used the table number. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

66. Probably not as bad, in my opinion

but anyone in any kind of service related job, dealing with the public, really ought to know better. It sounds like a slur to me.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

67. I still cannot believe that you're serious. What don't you get about

how offensive this is. Jewish couple, black couple, fag couple...identifying customers on a bill by perceived racial/ethnic identity is heinous. Personally it sounds to me like it was deliberately meant to be offensive. Think about it.

BTW... I will never ever forget the time, I was about 15 years old and someone came up to me and called me a kike. It was shattering.

[fudge stripe cookays]

93. How about the old standbys....

like assigning NUMBERS to tables, or even saying "table by the window."

Calling you an idiot would be rude, so... :eyes:

FSC

[Cooley Hurd]

96. Of course it wouldn't be okay! Jeebus...

The problem is that some dimwit focused on the couple's ethnic background to identify them.

That's bigoted and extremely fucked up!:thumbsdown:

[Boomer]

3. Help me out on this one

I'm not being facetious when I wonder if this was meant to be descriptive rather than insulting.

Is it the use of the word "Jew"? Would "Jewish" have made it okay? Or was it the fact that they were tagged by their religion as opposed to something like hair color or clothing? Would "yuppie couple" or "mousy couple" have been better?

Putting myself in the same position, if I'd noticed that my bill had "gay couple" scrawled somewhere, I wouldn't see it as an insult. When I'm out with my partner, we're pretty obviously gay. If the bill had said "lesbian couple," same reaction. If it had said "queers", then I'd be pretty steamed.

So is the word "Jew" in and of itself a slur? It certainly can be used as an insult, but usually that interpretation is defined by context and by who uses it, with what intention. When I lived in New York, many people used "Jew" in a matter-of-fact way: I'm a Jew.

There is no context with a scrawled note from a waitress that's quickly ID'ing her tables. Maybe she did mean it as a slur, or maybe it just was a description. How much of this insult is real and how much is assumed?

Damned if I know.

[Warren DeMontague]

5. "Jew", in and of itself, is not an insult.

However, in context, it certainly can be.

I think the phrasing- to describe them as "Jew Couple", is insulting and offensive. "Jewish Couple" might have been better, but really, isn't this why most restaurants have table NUMBERS for their waitstaff?

[Cha]

49. Probably is why they

they numbers for their tables so hurried wait staff don't take all these short cuts in describing who gets what bill.

[jzodda]

6. It depends on the context..In this case its a slur

and you should be insulted if somebody puts "gay couple" on your receipt also.

Whats the purpose of trying to identify or classify people? Whats the difference between a "jew couple" and any other couple in the restaurant? and how do they know they are Jews without asking?

When I read that it was not how they worded the check that bothered me, but the fact that they worded it at all

[Boomer]

12. Point taken

My partner definitely found the term insulting, so I'm probably giving the waitress too much credit on this one.

This kind of judgment call seems to be a constant balancing act in my life -- how much offense do I take at offending statments? At what point does "no offense meant" cease to have any legitimacy because the offense was very much felt?

It gets old after awhile, so perhaps my tendency is to try to rationalize it away so I won't have to fire up my adrenal gland yet again.

[Mairead]

23. " how do they know they are Jews without asking?"

he was wearing a kipeleh maybe?

[barb162]

48. That's what I'd like to know.

[Lerkfish]

57. I"ve frequently been mistaken for Jewish, even by Jews.

So, using that as a descriptor would be wrong, as well as inaccurate.

Or, a couple might even be semitic in appearance, but be muslim. If THEY recieved such a bill, would the descriptor of "Jew couple" be acceptable?

why even use such a descriptor? to keep the tables straight? sheesh.

I suppose if I came to the table, it would be "fat guy with beard". Should I be ok with that descriptor?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

100. Kipeleh?(sp) An affectionate term for head. Do you mean yarmulke?

[patcox2]

97. Russian immigrant waittress with poor english?

Thats what it was, you know. Don't be so sure of her intent that it be a slur.

[patcox2]

98. Russian immigrant waitress with poor english skills.

And different social background and mores. We have an enormous number of russian and eastern european seasonal workers in New Jersey who come just for the summer and work service jobs. Most have just enough english (but their russian accents are actually very cool) to get by. Her name was Karina, and I bet you thats her situation.

Their culture, it seems from talking to them, is a bit "Archie-Bunkerish," they can seem insensitive about a lot of things, very very straightforward, they do not use euphemisms for anything.

So this non-native english speaker from a completely different culture committed a faux pas.

Lets all just condemn the employer and assume everyone in the room was an anti-semite, thats the smart thing to do.

[yankeedem]

7. The problem here is

Why did they assume that they were Jews? Maybe? I'm not sure either. I think it might be something that wasn't intended to be a slur, but came out that way. Someone needs some sensitivity training at the Shore I guess.

[ismnotwasm]

10. Possibly it was not meant to be a slur

But their are far better ways to ID tables. Like "table 4" for instance. Why ethnicity or sexual orientation or the like needs to be brought up on a bill is suspicious for insult. My experience with restaurant work is that tables and sections already have identifiers. So while intent can't be accurately judged by the infomation given, that type of identifier on the bill is in poor judgement to say the least, not to mention poor taste.

[walldude]

16. You have got to be fucking kidding me

There is no fucking way in any reality that writing "Jew Couple" on a resturant check is not a slur. How about Nigger couple, or Disgusting Fat couple, or even worse Anti-American Liberal couple.

[ismnotwasm]

24. Just giving the benefit of the doubt in answer to a question

'Cause I know some extremely ignorant folks who honestly don't understand. Thick as bricks. I agree it was a smear, but the poster asked a question and I was just trying to answer.

[walldude]

61. Oh... sorry... this issue just bugs me

:toast:

[Donailin]

46. Or Italian Couple, Or Hungarian couple, or Asian couple

why is there always such a quick leap to anti-semitism when the word Jew is used by someone who is not Jewish? Do Jews not call themselves Jews? Is there some rule that says no one can use the term Jew to describe a Jew?

[TimeChaser]

51. Because the word Jew is not an adj

If they had said "Jewish couple" it wouldn't have been so bad.

[mondo joe]

79. Funny - many of my pseudo in laws call themselves Jews

I don't know what happened in this instance but I do know the word Jew is not necessarily as charged as you may think it is.

[hexola]

88. ...which is a plural noun...hence ok...

Words mean things...

[mondo joe]

89. Yes but people use improper language all the time.

In this cae it may have been a slur. Or it may have been nothing more than poor language skills.

[susanna]

52. This is not an anti-Semitic thing...

What I maintain is that ethnicity, race, gender, etc., have no place in giving good service to restaurant customers. Period. I wouldn't write Asian or Hungarian on a ticket, either.

This is just very, very poor judgment as regards the server in question. Seriously; she really wasn't thinking. Many, many customers check their tickets carefully for errors; they follow up in checking their credit card statements. The obvious offense in this story that I can tell is that the "descriptive phrase" appeared on BOTH: the ticket and the credit card statement. Now that's not right, no way, no how...I don't care how you spin it.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

69. While I do think it was inappropriate.....

....to use the word Jew it is not always a slur. To single one out as a "nigger" or "disgusting and fat" always is.

[susanna]

38. Former waitress here, too...

I can recall barking out or writing "Table 6" hundreds of times. I never once said, or wrote, "Table 6, the Jew/Black/White/Gay/Straight couple." Hopefully that illustrates the case better for those who might think this behavior is okay. It isn't.

Table 1, Table 2, etc., assist servers in making their service neutral. That is really the idea in service; you serve the poorest customer, as well as the richest, with the same care. That was always my motto.

I actually got canned from one service gig because I refused to let some VIP grab my ass. Repeatedly. Yes, this happened, and not in the 50s. It was in the late 80s. I told my manager if he liked the people at the table so much, he should wait on them and let them grab his ass. I was asked to leave for not being a team player. I was happy to go. :-)

[Donailin]

28. "Jew" is not always meant as a religion identifier, but an ethnic/national

one. I had two Jewish teen girls here last week, both from Israel. Both also self proclaimed "not religious"

I think there is way too much paranoia. What if the waiter added the "ish". . .

[susanna]

40. ...and as a server,

I would never have written "Caucasian couple" or "African-American couple" on my tickets, either.

This person was just plain wrong. Customer descriptions are NOT a standard method for good service.

[Donailin]

45. I waitressed for years and years too

I come from a restaurant family. I see no real evidence of prejudice, all the fact are not in. And as i said downthread, assuming there are no table identifiers, and the waiter is in the weeds, and if there were multi ethnic customers such as the couple from Italy, or the couple from GB and they were labeled "Brit Couple, Italian Couple" then no one would even comment.

So this person cannot be judged right or wrong until the facts are in. And describing a customer on the ticket has nothing to do with how one serves if it simply is a mental note for the waiter himself.

[susanna]

47. Even understanding being in the weeds...

I would have NEVER thought to use a descriptive term. I have been in weeds taller than I'd like to recount; having an entire diner I was serving sat AT ONE TIME (15 tables). I still used table numbers to identify my clientele, no matter what. I guess we can agree to disagree w/ what's right or wrong here.

On edit: re-reading your earlier post, I find it amazing that there would be a restaurant today without table numbers. If you have been in those types of restaurants, I maintain I would certainly have figured out my own method of identifying the table, and not based on the customer's ethnicity.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

82. When I waited tables, I was taught that it was rude to

even call the customers a man or a woman. Say the busboy brought over their drinks for you, you would say, "The gentleman ordered the martini and the lady is having the gin and tonic."

[Psyop Samurai]

33. "Jew" is not an adjective...

...at least not in the United States, where I've lived for 47 years. The usage is and always has been utterly standard.

"Jew couple" is right up there with "jewess" in my book. I'm not Jewish, but this requires no special knowledge or sensitivity. If what I'm saying is not self-evident, then something's wrong.

[hexola]

34. Ahh...good point...bad grammar...now that IS offensive!

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Jew

Ha - shit! I never knew it was bad to use the word that way...!

I won't do it ever again...

Why have none of my Jewish buddies every said anything about it...?

I guess it's one of those things like "nigger" - its ok to say if you are part of the group that is being slured...

Now if feel dumb...glad I saw this thread...

[Psyop Samurai]

39. LOL... perhaps not grammer so much as, um..., "usage"

Hey, thanks for the link...

Usage Note: It is widely recognized that the attributive use of the noun Jew, in phrases such as Jew lawyer or Jew ethics, is both vulgar and highly offensive. In such contexts Jewish is the only acceptable possibility. ...

Perhaps I was a little harsh - I can see how this could have escaped someone - but I've never been aware of this as a "grey zone", nor ever discussed it in any way. It's just something I've always "known", and assumed everyone else did as well.

[Raksha]

71. "Jewess" is not anti-Semitic per se. , just kind of an archaic usage.

As somebody pointed out, "Jew" is a noun; "Jewish" is an adjective. If someone uses the word "Jew" as an adjective, as in "Jew boy" or "Jew couple," it's not only incorrect grammatically but ALWAYS has insulting connotations. That's just the way it's used. It's like when the freepers call us "Democrat Underground," but even more negative than that.

[Mairead]

76. There sure is a lot of prescriptivism being waved around here

Criticising someone as a bigot because they used a particular noun as an adjective is pretty ripe. Like using double negatives or knowing which fork to use for salad, things like that are markers of subculture or class, not politics.

[walldude]

8. Better not see that on one of my Bills

or this "pussy, anti-war, un-American, pacifist, Jew is going to have some serious issues. I'm telling you I'm ready to snap!

[omega minimo]

9. Hey there, wow.

:wow:

And the TV shows the grief in Gaza.

Hey folks: HOW ABOUT "TABLE #4"!?!

[Beaverhausen]

11. The slur also turned up on Stein's credit card statement weeks later? wha

What??? I think this whole story is bullshit.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. Yeah, that makes sense.

Clearly there would be some glaringly obvious motivation to make a story like that up...

but perhaps you would like to elaborate on your theory.

[Swede]

22. You know them people make stuff up.

They whine all the time.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren DeMontague]

68. Actually, I figured it was so they could sue

You know how greedy and money-grubbing they are.

(And yeah, half my family is Jewish. So, yes, I'm being sarcastic)

[H5N1]

84. now that you mention it, that part sounds damn fishy

I would like to see that statement.

[Vektor]

13. Not acceptable to single them out by their ethnicity/religion.

It's just inappropriate. Table number would have sufficed, and if they don't have a numeric system, "red shirt, gray jacket" or something like that would have been ok...

[Boomer]

25. I grew up in a working class family...

that always had this pressing need to "tag" people. It wasn't perceived as insulting (which I'm not offering as an excuse), but this cataloging of "the other" seemed to be just second nature for them. The differences were seen, mildly remarked upon, then that was it. Nothing followed the observation that someone was black (or colored), or Jewish, or a Yankee, or fat, or old, or crippled. For some reason it just had to be said.

I've traveled far enough away from my roots that I don't do the same thing myself, but I'm so inured to it that unless I hear the tone that marks "insult definitely intended" the remarks just don't register that strongly. If I got angry every time one of my red-neck Baptist fundamentalist kin said something PI, I would have had a stroke by now.

Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Sigh.

[mixedview]

54. I too grew up in a very diverse, working class area

It is neccessary and normal to acknowledge the differences among us -- but it still has to be done in a context of basic respect, even when the terms used are politically incorrect.

This is not the case here, IMO.

The relationship between a business/employee and it's customers is a professional, formal one which demands a higher level of respect. The server is not this couple's "friend" who can speak to them/refer to them in any way she pleases.

[Vektor]

56. Tee-hee!

I know how you feel - my dear old dad has a tendency to use some pretty antiquated terms to describe people, and though he means no harm, it can get pretty embarrassing at times. :-)

[SoCalDem]

62. "Working class " people often were very "class conscious"

and always tried to rank themselves against/with other groups..In order to make themselves a bit better by comparison, the "other" groups were referred to by the vilest stereotypes...and the groups changed as their own status changed..

There used to be signs that said "No Irish need apply"...but the Irish, being Caucasian, could just concentrate on the accent, and drop the O' from their names, and assimilate to a point where they were heading UP the ladder..People THEY passed just picked a different group to look down upon..

Sadly it's in our past, present and probably...future..

The "shorthand" identifiers are rarely favorable..

[hexola]

32. "Not acceptable" is the best description...We're they Jewish?

Can someone make a case for the word "jew" being a derogative?

Was the couple offended because they were called Jews and arent Jewish?

or

Did they find being singled out based on their faith objectionable in this situation?

It would seem they could complain either way...

The story doesnt really say they are Jewish...I don't want make an assumption based on their last name...wouldn't that be bigoted?

[TimeChaser]

42. The word "Jew" is offensive when used as an adj

And I say that as one who's grown up Jewish. If it had said "Jewish Couple" they probably wouldn't have been insulted.

[Vektor]

55. I think it's just that

using their ethnicity to single them out was taken as offensive, versus just using a more neutral factor like what they were wearing, or their table number.

[Fuzz]

14. Reminds me of the time I went to a restaurant with my wife

and another couple, friends of ours.

The restaurant was just starting to fill up, and we were the first group to be seated in another section of the restaurant. I'm a big white guy, wife is Asian, other guy was Jewish, wife converted to Judaism when they married.

Anyway, this was a Spanish restaurant. Someone commented that we are all alone in the room. Jewish friend said "Yeah, it's (my wife's) fault, they don't want Asians in the main dining room." I replied with, "How do we know it's not your fault, Jew boy?"

Ah, good times, good times.

BTW, all these comments are in fun, and between friends, so no offense was taken by anyone involved, so no one else should be offended either. :)

[Mr_Spock]

15. It would be funny if it weren't so outragously bigoted

The waiter must have been a Repuke bigot.

[LostinVA]

18. I grew up in this general area

And, it definitely could happen. I visit there decently often, and it hasn't changed any. Actually, I'd say there are more Confederate flags around then there were 15-20 years ago...

[HadItUpToHere]

19. the Chicago Tribune had an article with something similar today-

a woman who had some problems with customer service at Comcast got her bill, the name on the bill said "Bitch Dog" instead of her name...and another guy got his gas bill, and the name on the account had been changed to "scrotum bag"...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0508170154aug17,1,5769158.story?coll=chi-news-hed

[barb162]

50. I know I shouldn't be laughing but I was reading that in the

Trib today and laughing then too. Also the one about the guy who went to the condo basement and cut everyone's cable lines because they tapped into his and then he got satellite. I was crying I was laughing so hard

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

53. Thanks for posting the "Bitch Dog" story

My jaw dropped when I read it earlier today, but I was not surprised to learn the company is Comcast. Comcast took over the old Chicago Cable TV franchise which provided the worst customer service I have ever experienced, and many of those employees were retained after the buy. But still - the temerity of those people who thought they could get away with putting those vulgar terms on customers' statements....unfrickinbelievable.

[K-W]

20. Insensitive, tasteless and rude. EOM

[Donailin]

26. wait a minute. what if the waiter wrote italian couple as an identifier

or the british couple?

Why is there such a quick assumption of anti-semitism?

[Gormy Cuss]

37. Jew couple vs. Jewish couple

Setting aside the problematic field ID (did they "look Jewish," or "act Jewish?) there is a difference in "Jew couple" and "Jewish couple." Think "Democrat Party" vs. "Democratic Party" and why some in the right wing have adopted the former. "Jew couple" is only a slightly kinder way of saying Jew as a derogatory term based on my admittedly limited experience in the NY/NJ area.

[rasputin1952]

30. I am not part of the PC Police...but context is everything...and a little

Common Sense would have worked here as well. "Table #4' as someone described earlier would have been fine, but time and ignorance know no barriers. If this person was wanting for time, had to go to the B/R or just plain frustrated at the whole day seems to have some input here.

once again, Common Sense should have prevailed, but it didn't. it is not so much the offender, but how the offendee takes it that counts. Some things are more descriptive than others; some epithets are hard to defend. I would have erred on the side of caution however, and gone w/"table #4"....:)

[hexola]

35. Usage note in Dictionary.com

I have to admit - I did not know this...

Usage Note: It is widely recognized that the attributive use of the noun Jew, in phrases such as Jew lawyer or Jew ethics, is both vulgar and highly offensive. In such contexts Jewish is the only acceptable possibility. Some people, however, have become so wary of this construction that they have extended the stigma to any use of Jew as a noun, a practice that carries risks of its own. In a sentence such as There are now several Jews on the council, which is unobjectionable, the substitution of a circumlocution like Jewish people or persons of Jewish background may in itself cause offense for seeming to imply that Jew has a negative connotation when used as a noun.

[kbm8795]

36. Well look, the whole thing is stupid to begin with. . .

What kind of restaurant doesn't have their wait staff learn a diagramed map of the floor with the tables numbers? When they learn that map, they are able to write the NUMBER on the ticket for the order to remember it. .. not some stupid identification label. Moreover, unless the couple was wearing buttons that said "jew couple" that waitress is sure making insinuations.

[ernstbass]

81. You would be surprised how many restaurants

don't number their tables. I don't understand it.

[TahitiNut]

43. I'm surprised it wasn't "Jew Cuppel"

Ignorant, bigoted sleaze!

[mixedview]

44. this is cut and dry - it's hateful whether or not the server meant it

Employees, especially those dealing with the public, have to be sensitive, especially to a historicaly persecuted group.

I hate to say this - but I think there are some even on the left who like to downplay anti-Semitism because they have issues with people like Wolfowitz/neocons and pro-Israel policy.

And for those saying "well, I talk like that around my friends": good for you. Context is everything. Friends joke around with friends and say all types of things - doesn't mean anyone else could.

Political correctness only goes overboard when people are offended for narrow, personal reasons - cases where there was intent to show respect, but there was a misunderstanding or some mistake made.

This is not the case here.

ps. I'm not Jewish.

[Must_B_Free]

59. "Kike couple" would have been offensive

"Jew couple" is just mildly stupid and someone can take offense, but only because they need to feel like they were offended.

On my scale of the offensive, this is nowhere near Jesse Jackson's "Himeytown".

But I mean seriously, do Jews get offended when someone mentions that something gave them the "Heebie Jeebies", I think they should.

[Clark2008]

63. Question: how is it a slur to be referred to as a "Jew couple?"

Was it impolite? Yes.

But it wasn't a slur. A slur would be if they called 'em the Heb couple or something.

Look, my husband-to-be is Jewish. I think he's the hottest thing since the sun and the sweetest thing since sugar, but I don't get the slur. I would have just gotten up and asked the people why it was so important that we were the "Jew couple" instead of just, you know, writing down a table number.

Just wondering.

[hexola]

65. see post 35 (nt)

[Clark2008]

72. OK - but my fiance isn't riled when he's called a Jew

I guess it depends on how one choose to deflect things.

:shrug:

[REP]

77. He Isn't Riled Because It's Accurate

If your Jewish finance is called a Jew, there's no reason to be offended. If someone says your fiance is a Jewish person, that person is probably uncomfortable with Jews. If someone says your fiance is a Jew lawyer/butcher/baker/candlestick maker, they're being offensive. Jew is a noun. Jewish is an adjective. Jewish baker; my fiance is a Jew.

A couple of Jews; a Jewish couple = correct. Jew couple = inproper use.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

101. What if a Jew is neither religious nor an adherent to Jewish culture?

Can you call an atheist couple who don't observe Jewish religious rituals, traditions or holidays a Jewish couple? And can they call themselves Jews in their case? Would the word Jews be allright but Jewish inappropriate in the case of atheists? The dictionary definition would indicate that the word "Jewish" applies to someone of the Jewish culture or religion. Can the terms "Semitic" or "of the Hebrew people" be used with respect or do they signify an attempt to classify someone on the basis of stereotypical physical traits, when someone is not a religious Jew?

I'm just asking as now I'm getting a bit confused and would regret insulting someone without realizing it.

[sleipnir]

70. How did the waiter know they were Jewish?

That's what I want to know. Did she just assume or were they openly displaying items that would identify them as Jews?

I think that is the crux of the story. Did she assume the couple was Jewish by the way they looked, acted, etc or did they actually profess openly to be Jews or otherwise display their religion?

[democracyindanger]

73. I hope everyone who doesn't think this is a big deal is Jewish. nt

[Solon]

75. I'm not Jewish, and even I find it offensive...

Look the word Jew isn't neccessarily offensive in and of itself, when used as an adjective, like "Jew boy/girl", its offensive, or as a verb, like this, "That bastard tried to Jew me!". In this case, Jew=cheat, and is highly offensive. I chewed someone out at work about that, when they accused me of "Jewing them", my cousin married a Jew assholes!

[democracyindanger]

94. Exactly. Google 'jew'

They make a good, concise statement about the difference between 'jew' and 'jewish.'

[sakabatou]

85. Unfortunately bigotry still exists... against anyone or thing

[calico1]

87. I think what makes something offensive is

whether or not the person or people in question are offended. Since this couple was offended then to me it doesn't matter if other people think they shouldn't be offended or what should or shouldn't offend them. They were offended and that's what matters.

[Mairead]

90. I don't think your criterion works as well as you think :-)

I've known plenty bigots who are highly offended at being recognised as bigots. Should I feel bad for them? I don't think so. Why should I have to tolerate the intolerant, or care when the offensive are offended? What's the payoff?

[newportdadde]

92. It appeared on his Credit Card statement?

I find that really surprising, it should have just been labled as the place of business then the charge.

[wideopen]

95. There is some stupid shit being posted here today

Assuming this whole story isn't bullshit, the waitress wrote a note to remind herself what table the check went to. Big. Fucking. Deal. Would it have been offensive if it said "christian couple"?

[patcox2]

99. A Russian immigrant waittress with poor english,

And different social background and mores. We have an enormous number of russian and eastern european seasonal workers in New Jersey who come just for the summer and work service jobs. Most have just enough english (but their russian accents are actually very cool) to get by. Her name was Karina, and I bet you thats her situation.

Their culture, it seems from talking to them, is a bit "Archie-Bunkerish," they can seem insensitive about a lot of things, very very straightforward, they do not use euphemisms for anything.

So this non-native english speaker from a completely different culture committed a faux pas.

Lets all just condemn the employer and assume everyone in the room was an anti-semite, thats the smart thing to do.

[Behind the Aegis]

102. Excuses

Now you are making things up. There was NOTHING in the article about the origins of the waitress. You have spun this into some thing it isn't!

[patcox2]

107. Enjoy your righteous anger.

Its so liberating to be appalled all the time.

[Behind the Aegis]

109. Enjoy your rose colored glasses.

Must be liberating not having to deal with the real world.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jlseagull]

105. This is absolutely inane.

I can't believe this is even an issue.

I worked as a waiter once in a steakhouse in a primarily black community. I'm white. For the first three weeks of working there, the faces of all of my customers ran together, and it was quite difficult to get everything to the right person, especially at a table of 8. But when a white guy came in and sat down, bang. New York strip rare with extra coleslaw goes to the white guy. No problem, no hassle. Would I have written it on a reciept? Prolly not, but that's not the point.

Additionally, comparison to Kristallnacht, the Holocaust, and oppression of Jews in general is not only specious and begging the question, but it diminishes the personal hell that time in history represents for my great-uncle, who still has a six digit number on his left arm.

Lastly, no one has a right not to be offended, especially by an overworked waitress who might not speak the language very well. Get a grip. This isn't "The Man" oppressing the little guy, this is the (slight) misapplication of a descriptor that happens to be sensitive.

[justjones]

106. But, but.....I thought we were a colorblind society......

where things like race, religion, national origin, and things of that nature don't matter. :sarcasm:

[Moderator]

110. Locking

This thread has run its course, veering at times twixt and dangerously near the whirlpools of Scylla and Charybdis... Time to take this one to safe harbor.

DU Moderator