Disturbing editorial in defense of Empire......

[annabanana]

in today's Newsday:
http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-opbab184388003aug18,0,6486833.story?coll=ny-viewpoints-headlines

"President George W. Bush's basic vocabulary - good and evil, war and victory - always has made his liberal critics uncomfortable. But last week Bush seemed to be speaking to members of his own administration when he made it crystal clear to the world that we're fighting a "war" against terrorism."

-snip-
"But ancient Rome - always the brand name in empires - is the better model. Rome demonstrated that empires can be about much more than blood sports, tiger hunts, rapacious oil companies and military adventures in far-off places. Empires can also stand for things that make the world a better place. Political stability, the rule of law, the virtues of political enfranchisement, the preservation of learning and the arts, and respect for other cultures and religions: These are some of the better legacies left to us by the Romans. They pulled this off - with all their faults - because they believed in that quaint concept we call destiny"

-snip-
"Bush has embraced the transcendent view - and the clear-cut vocabulary of war that goes with it. That certainty may creep out a lot of people, but that doesn't keep the president from declaring - repeatedly and rightly - that we represent a force for good in the world."

Aside from pointing out that the Roman Empire doesn't look so good lately, how can I blow this idiot out of the water?

[Fovea]

1. Rome also showed us

how military adventurism can destroy an economy beyond the power of taxation to repair, and that conquered provinces do not contribute as much as they cost.

But Bush does not read history.

[rodeodance]

5. well, that History of Salt should fill in a few gaps don't you think???

,,,But Bush does not read history.

[whistle]

7. That occurred over some 500 years in Rome's case and I think

...the Bushies and the PNAC crowd are just looking at the next 100 years and saying, "Hey, we can live with that. Let the future generations work out how to maximize returns on investment from our folly."

[Fovea]

18. The problem with that assessment

is that war has dramatically increased its demand on the supporting economy

A great book illustrating this principle is "WW3, August 1985" by the Sir John Hackett and the NATO chiefs. It theorized that the USSR could not sustain conventional warfare in Europe more than a month and a half, IIRC. After that, it would be forced to use tactical or strategic nukes, in the first case as armor suppression, and in the second to delaminate NATO resolve.

The latter strategy is currently being pursued by al qaeda vis a vis the coalition of the reluctant.

[whistle]

19. Correct and the other problem is the insanity of it all

[rodeodance]

2. Rome fell based on greed.

[devinsgram]

21. Absolutely,

That is not a very good example because if they had been so great, they still would be here, but I believe history tells the story of the rise and fall of the empire. Not only greed, but moral decay and corruption made it very easy for barbarians to overtake them.

[emulatorloo]

3. tell him his masterful Bush is preparing to "cut and run"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300853_pf.html

U.S. Lowers Sights On What Can Be Achieved in Iraq
Administration Is Shedding 'Unreality' That Dominated Invasion, Official Says
By Robin Wright and Ellen Knickmeyer
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, August 14, 2005; A01

<snip>

The Bush administration is significantly lowering expectations of what can be achieved in Iraq, recognizing that the United States will have to settle for far less progress than originally envisioned during the transition due to end in four months, according to U.S. officials in Washington and Baghdad.

The United States no longer expects to see a model new democracy, a self-supporting oil industry or a society in which the majority of people are free from serious security or economic challenges, U.S. officials say.

"What we expected to achieve was never realistic given the timetable or what unfolded on the ground," said a senior official involved in policy since the 2003 invasion. "We are in a process of absorbing the factors of the situation we're in and shedding the unreality that dominated at the beginning."

<snip>

But the realities of daily life are a constant reminder of how the initial U.S. ambitions have not been fulfilled in ways that Americans and Iraqis once anticipated. Many of Baghdad's 6 million people go without electricity for days in 120-degree heat. Parents fearful of kidnapping are keeping children indoors.

Barbers post signs saying they do not shave men, after months of barbers being killed by religious extremists. Ethnic or religious-based militias police the northern and southern portions of Iraq. Analysts estimate that in the whole of Iraq, unemployment is 50 percent to 65 percent.

U.S. officials say no turning point forced a reassessment. "It happened rather gradually," said the senior official, triggered by everything from the insurgency to shifting budgets to U.S. personnel changes in Baghdad.

<snip>

[auburngrad82]

4. I think he's confused the Greeks with the Romans.

I thought the Romans were pretty decadent and geared more towards world domination. Respect for other cultures and religions? I don't think that was a strong point of the Roman Empire.

Besides, where's the Roman Empire now?

[Rich Hunt]

17. Where's the Roman Empire now?

You have to ask??

:evilgrin:

[Wickerman]

6. enslaving those they conquered is often overlooked

and perhaps the author forgets that Christianity was formed strictly because Romans had no respect for Judaism. Them were mighty pretty words he strung together; too bad he has a limited, even Bush-like knowledge of actual history.

[rodeodance]

9. "ideals of freedom and human dignity"--says this is what we are fighting

for. RW talking points. yup.



......We are fighting a war over things that matter - not the right to wear pith helmets, hunt tigers or drill oil wells in distant lands. We are fighting for ideals that transcend race, culture and religion - ideals of freedom and human dignity.

And that's the kind of "imperialism" we should be willing to defend.

[1932]

8. Tomorrow in Newsday: "Naziism: not so bad after all?"

Conquering other nations by force and then building roads to ship their wealth to the empire's capital, depriving the conquered liberty and the profits of their labor and natural resources is absolutely not redeemable in the name of "stability," (what a joke, considering the conquered fought back for their liberty), "learning," "art," or whatever else these facsits at Newsday want to imagine empire did right.

I'll take democray, autonomy, and fair trade on a level playing field over empire any day of the week, Newsday.

[zbdent]

10. Someone should point out that the corporate medias are

providing distractions in the order of modern-day "gladiator matches" and "throwing Christians to the lions" - "Reality TV" shows . . .

[mrfrapp]

11. First Reich

Well, considering the Roman Empire is the First Reich after which both the Holy Roman Empire and Nazi Germany derived their Imperial beliefs, he's drawing some parallels he probably wants to avoid.

[leftchick]

12. I would not waste my time. Did you see where this yahoo is from?

BY MICHAEL A. BABCOCK
Michael A. Babcock, an associate professor of "humanities at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., is the author of “The Night Attila Died: Solving the Murder of Attila the Hun." Sheryl McCarthy is

That would be Jerry Falwell's Liberty Univesity. He is a crackpot.

:eyes:

[Lena inRI]

13. Pedantic crock of shit. . . n/t

:spray:

[Deja Q]

14. His words agre great. His ACTIONS are what make people uncomfortable.

And it ain't just liberals, baby. Lots of conservatives are worried too.

WHo is this blind nitwit anyway?!

[annabanana]

15. Thank you all...

(LTTE on it's way)

[htuttle]

16. No matter how many ways you spell "White Man's Burden"

...it remains an arrogant lie meant to excuse barbarous behavior in the name of 'civilization'.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

20. Um.. The quaint, modern idea that killing and enslaving others is wrong?

[1932]

22. Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins

has an argument about why empire is bad in the first ten pages.

Most of God's Politics by Jim Wallis is an argument against empire.