Woman tossed out of church for missing her tithe:

[rasputin1952]

The Living Word Tabernacle in Waverly, Ohio, terminated the membership of Loretta Davis recently, according to a July report by WCMH-TV in Columbus, because she had stopped paying her tithe. Davis' contributions ended in January after she was hospitalized the first of 15 times this year for congestive heart failure. The church's founder said non-member Davis could still attend, but Davis' daughter said, "In the time of (her) need, (the church) should be caring, supporting, asking what she needs, help her if she needed help." (When healthier, Davis was donating $60 a month out of her $592 Social Security check.)



I am glad I would not even consider joining this group of yahoos. A decent Christian group would have offered her something to tide her over instead of helping her into the Poor House....sheesh.

[matcom]

1. Memo to Davis' daughter:

Dear Ms. Davis,

Freedom isn't free. Neither is Jesus.

Thank you.

[Coexist]

27. LOL! The road to salvation is paved with pension checks...

how funny. How sad.

[CitrusLib]

2. I'm speechless. And that's not an easy thing to accomplish.

[liberal N proud]

3. This is the New Faith Based initiative supported by the right wing nuts.

If the fee is required by the group ie. church, then it's a membership fee, Not a tithe.

When I was growing up, I was taught that the amount you gave to the Lord was between you and the Lord.
I don't support weekly envelopes with names on them as so many churches provide, nor do I support annual reports that are distributed showing how much each member gave. That is not Christianity.

[knitter4democracy]

69. Membership fees aren't new.

The Eastern Orthodox here in the States have been doing it for a long time (to help pay for priests to come over from the mother countries, etc.). We're just now switching to a tithe system.

The only reason our church keeps track of individual donations (and only the treasurer knows--and he's a really good guy who helped found the church) is for the tax notices at the end of the year. If you donate with cash, they don't keep track unless it's in a named or numbered envelope.

[flakey_foont]

4. Holy hypocrisy, Batman!

"Thank God, I'm an atheist" - A. Crowley

[Flubadubya]

5. GET THE MONEY!!!

This story is case in point for what Mike Malloy was ranting about on his show the other night in reference to the "Real Christian Mission" these days.

He was mocking, but it is so true. He said Jesus told his disciples to first GET THE MONEY, then preach all my other teachings. His spiel was rife with :sarcasm: of course, but this just proves him right!

[me b zola]

85. LOL. I remember that rant

Malloy is brilliant in so many ways.

:toast:

[supernova]

6. This is absolutely appalling!

Monstrous, even! :grr:

This place shouldn't even call itself a "church." It's a country club.

I feel so sorry for Ms. Davis. :-(

[rfranklin]

7. But where's the golf course? The tennis courts?

Oh, they don't have those. They're at the actual country club that the minister belongs to.

[johnaries]

35. Are you sure? My nephew goes to a church in Memphis that has

a golf course, tennis courts, and a 2 million dollar chandalier in the alcove.

[Pithlet]

47. There's a church nearby that is huge

and has three gigantic well lit crosses next to the highway. It may be the one you're talking about. Every time I drive by I think about how the money it cost to build and maintain those crosses could do so much for the community.

[rateyes]

78. Yeah, isn't it funny how the "mega=churches" that

the well-dressed rich folk attend are always located in the slums, where land is cheaper? Sometimes I think we ought to demand that churches have to pay property tax. If they won't voluntary help the poor, we ought to force them.

[girl gone mad]

84. There are more and more of these, and..

many people in my generation tell me that they join church for the benefits. They could care less about the gospel, they just want access to the day care, summer camp for the kids, health insurance, private playgrounds, golf, bowling, etc. Not to mention the networking that goes on.

[pecwae]

8. An older, lifetime member of an

Independent Baptist church where I lived had to have a serious surgery. Some members of the church approached the pastor to suggest helping this member's family out a bit while he recovered. The pastor replied that the church had given the family $50 and that's all he was obligated to do and all he intended to do. True, sad story.

[rasputin1952]

10. That is one sad story. Just what version of the scriptures are these

people living by...perhaps the "Compassionate Conservatism" version?

There is a special portion of hell for these hypocrites...:grr:

[Igel]

39. Perhaps an overliteral, warped interpretation of

Luke 11?

"But woe to you Pharisees! You give a tenth of mint, rue, and every kind of herb, and you bypass justice and love for God. These things you should have done without neglecting the others."

On the other hand, trying to account for the eccentricities of assorted churches' doctrines is a very time-consuming game.

[leftchick]

9. I would love to see the home the pastor lives in

This is just so shameful and disgusting and Anti-Christ!

:grr:

[Swamp Rat]

11. Sounds like the real Landover Baptist Church!

:puke:

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/

[GreenPartyVoter]

45. I bet Betty Bowers won't be bringing this poor lady any more pies.

[Hubert Flottz]

12. Stone the cheap Harlot!

She could get out and turn a few tricks and come up with some loot for the needy...err...preach...err...I mean the Lawd!

Father In sez..."Lazy people like you madam are the Devil's Workshop!!!!! Gawd don't want to hear a damned bunch of lame frigging excuses, now move out sharply, down to the corner, O' you brazen harlot and get with Gawd's Program ASA f?cking P!"

[lectrobyte]

13. In God We Trust

All Others Pay Cash!

[Ian David]

14. Here's a photo of them tossing her out of church...

Run away! Run away!

[rasputin1952]

17. ROFLMAOPIP....

:rofl:

Classic!!!!!!:D

[Ian David]

26. I wish I could find the picture from Naked Gun 33 1/3

Where the professor in the wheelchair goes flying past the moon like Elliot did in E.T.

[zbdent]

15. I'm sure that, if she paid her tithe (with the back payments and interest)

the church would help her out by asking its members to "pray for her" . . .

[Ian David]

16. Original story: Wheelchair-Bound Woman Kicked Out Of Church

nbc4i.com
Wheelchair-Bound Woman Kicked Out Of Church
Dismissal Turns Into Talk Of Ohio Town

UPDATED: 10:56 am EDT July 15, 2005

WAVERLY, Ohio -- A 65-year-old wheelchair-bound woman with congestive heart failure was kicked out of her church because she was not paying her tithe, NBC 4 reported.

<snip>

"Since Jan. 5, I've been in the hospital 15 times," Davis said. "I've suffered with cellulites since I've had the open heart (surgery)."

<snip>

The Rev. Paul McClurg, who started the church, said Davis is still welcome to attend church but is not allowed to be a member.

<snip>

There are at least two former members who will not be attending with them.

More:
http://www.nbc4i.com/news/4727464/detail.html


"Living Word Tabernacle", Waverly, Ohio
http://tinyurl.com/cdy2e

[theHandpuppet]

22. I see the church is now holding services at the local Lions Club...

... while waiting for their new chruch to be built. Why is the Lion's Club supporting this B.S.??!!

[Igel]

38. One wonders what the difference between a member and

a church-goer is.

She can attend; she can't be a member. I'm missing something.

[Richard Steele]

65. Members vs Attendees:

"Members" are given a voice in the actions of the church; such as
voting for it's Board of Directors, etc.

It's like being a stockholder, kinda.

Obviously, a MAJORITY of her brethren feel it's
alot MORE like being a stockholder than being a Christian.

Assholes. Greedy, stupid, ANTI-CHRISTIAN assholes.

[kestrel91316]

64. When and if Jesus ever gets around to coming back, he is going to be

just a tad displeased with some of the folks stealing his name to cover up their evil deeds.

[salin]

87. Guess the church's needs in "building their new church building"

are far more important than congregants health needs.

Somehow in modern american reactionary religious circles the teachings of Christ, particularly those about compassion, and the warnings about greed - are uniquely ignored.

[Katidid]

18. I would really like a link to this story

if you have one ... my friends and family will not believe this one. Thanks ...

This is disgusting ... I question whether this preacher, or founder of the church, even has a soul.

Goes to show you, if you want to make big bucks in this country, hang up a 'shingle' that claims your a christian or church.

:sarcasm:

[alfredo]

83. Here

http://www.nbc4i.com/news/4727464/detail.html

[panzerfaust]

19. Simple Chri$ter Charity

The poor will always be with us. We just don't want them in OUR church.

Remember, Jesus needs money to save.

Sadly, to be liberal is to be fair, and, so - however much I fear and despise organized religion - I must say that most churches, probably not even most Chri$tian churches, would have shown such callousness …

[theHandpuppet]

20. Someone please remind me...

... why churches are tax-exempt, or more precisely, why any Yahoo can start a church, collect money, and not pay a dime in taxes. I think the IRS needs to take a good look at this church's books, and I'm not talking about the Bible.

[rasputin1952]

29. I would say that the preacher of this church should look at a book...

namely the Bible, if that is what he wishes to preach. Somehow, I get the distinct impression, he hasn't figured any of it out yet...:shrug:

And this woman should really find a better church. I would have to say that this one is pretty well soulless.

[bleedingheart]

21. Would God want her to keep her money for her own needs

like paying for her medication and bills?

[dogday]

23. Apparently their religion is best served by

a pay as you go plan. No pay no go to heaven... What a bunch of freaks, Jesus would never do this....

[Canuckistanian]

24. What's next? Indulgences?

I think the concept of tithing should have died out in the middle ages. I think the Bible is pretty clear on the rapid accumulation of money and exactly what to do with it.

[elehhhhna]

52. Hey! The New Jesus is heavily into real estate.

[Canuckistanian]

54. Jesus Saves

But Moses invests...

[TWiley]

58. He hires migrants, and golfs with the Pharisees.

Furthermore, he is a Conservative Republican who supports the war and opposes all social welfare programs !!!

[BoneDaddy]

25. Pharisees and Money Lenders

I recall Jesus kicking some major ass with these fuckers.

[DanCa]

28. They tossed me out for refussing to picket abortion clinics

Actually they wanted me to take photos of woman entering clinics so they can scarlet letter them on abortion web sites. When I refused they refused to confirm me. I was so distraught I had a stroke and i couldn't speak for three days.
Thank god i found the episcopal church. Pardon the pun.

[rasputin1952]

31. It is a good thing you got tossed from that one...any 'church' that would

have you do something to harm someone is not a church of God. Seems like far too many of these people have no notion of empathy, nor of forgiveness; but they are never short of judgement for whatever they consider a 'sin'. These are the same people who believe that war is fine, even an 'unjust' one, or that state sanctioned killing is within the bounds of the religion they espouse, while even using BC pills to pregnancy is a sentence to hell.

Hypocrites are the generally the loudest of the congregation, regardless of the religion. They can talk, but they cannot walk the walk.

[knitter4democracy]

70. That's horrible!

I'm always amazed at how we Christians hurt others supposedly in the name of our God.

I may be a Christian, but it hurts when I hear stories like that. Jesus doesn't want us to be like that.

[jackster]

30. does anyone know

what organization the church might be affiliated with? Some sort of independent pentecostal church perhaps? Sure sounds like something they might do! Or perhaps UPCI?

[goodboy]

32. Waverly is waaaaaay down south in Ohio. I think most of the

churches there have out-houses behind them.

there are a lot of primitive baptist-poison drinking, snake handlin' churches there too

[theHandpuppet]

43. Oh? Do you live there?

I was born and raised in Scioto County where my family still lives (Scioto is directly south of Pike County, where Waverly is located) and to my knowledge never encountered "poison-drinkin', snake-handlin' churches" with outhouses for bathrooms.

In the recent election for the 2nd District Congressional Representative, both Pike and Scioto Counties carried Hackett(D) by large margins, whereas their more "civilized" neighbors nearer to Zinzinnati voted Republican.

Any other stereotypes you wish to toss out while you're at it?

[Horse with no Name]

33. And Bush's plan is to outsource Christian charity to churches

and get rid of social programs?
:rofl:
Unreal...we see how THAT will work.:(

[TWiley]

46. Church parking lots will be filling with new SUV's

There is almost 40 billion set aside to fund faith based initiates this year. It is almost the only program that cannot spend all the money it has.

The last I heard, there is no accountability for the tax money they receive.

[Horse with no Name]

50. I totally agree

Another boondoggle for the Bush supporters.
I remember many years ago--I worked for Dillards while I was going to college.
A preacher of one of the large churches in the area came in. His wife "had to have" 12 place settings of some very expensive Reed and Barton silverware.
They decided to charge it.
Filled out a credit application (back in the day before it was all computerized and you had to write EVERYTHING on the app).
They lived in the nicest neighborhood and drove a top of the line Caddy--these things were paid for by the church.
He also received around 60-70k a year on top of that.
His wife was adorned in diamonds and had beautiful clothes.
My grandpa was a Baptist preacher and he used to tell us all stories of how God would provide...of the times that they didn't have food to eat, and the parishioners would bring their excess vegetables from the garden, etc. They always had what they needed.
Being young and naive, I assumed that ALL preachers lived like that.
Until that day.
After that, I changed churches and went to a church that had a council of elders (doctors, attorneys, businessmen, teachers, etc).
They didn't pay a preacher. Instead, each elder would preach on different Sundays. None of them were paid but all were very educated and very enlightened.
Seems like that is the way it should be.:shrug:

[TWiley]

57. I think that better represents First Century Christianity.

I believe they had rotating elders preach after Christ died. I read a convincing article that described the womens role in the early church. They were leaders, teachers, and elders. Not like the fundie stuff you hear about today.

If you like books on tape, try "Desire of the Everlasting Hills" It is fantastic. It describes the world before, during, and after Christ from a historical perspective. He asks an open ended question in the beginning "Has the world changed significantly due to the life of Jesus?"

We got "snowed in" one long weekend with another couple in a cabin with wood heat, and all we did was lay around and listen to that book from start to finish. It was one of the nicest times of my life. Very inspirational.

[Horse with no Name]

61. Thanks.

Will definitely put it on my list of must haves.
These days, I feel like being a Christian is a dirty word.
These monsters have hijacked my country and my faith most of the time.

[xmas74]

67. That is more along the lines of the type of church

that I have been looking for.
Is there any affliation that I should look for?

[earth mom]

51. Exactly-"Christian Charity" will go right to the churches coffers

or pastors pocket instead of helping those who need it.

The needy will be kicked to the curb unless they are "members".

AND

Forgetaboutit if you are poor. :grr:

Who'd ever would have thought that the Federal government would be such a cash cow for Churches? I'm sure the founding fathers of this country are rolling over in their graves!

[lonestarnot]

34. Their nuts!

[Hubert Flottz]

36. I've been thinking about this thread all morning and the more I

think about it, the more pissed off I get.

I know about congestive heart failure, because I deal with it all the time. It's not a damned bit funny, to not be able to lay down like a normal person and go to sleep, because you can't breathe. It's scary as hell! It's not funny to be poor either. I know about that too, because I can't afford the pills I'm supposed to take every day, to have any kind of half way decent "quality of life", myself. It's not funny taking your dog's "Water Pills", because you can't afford the real deal. Believe me, I know!

That preacher should try sleeping one night propped up in the bed in a sitting position, starving for a deep breath, with his feet and legs swelled up like balloons and not knowing if he will survive until the next day. He'd be scared shitless, faith or no faith, I'm betting.

People who would throw out a lady like that, who has supported a church like that church in better times, are not Christians, they are selfish swine, who serve nobody, or nothing, but themselves!

People like those who are controlling that church, are the very reason I don't go to church anymore. If those pigs go to "Heaven", then I want no part of the place.

[TWiley]

41. Try not to expect much from the insane.

You will sleep better at night after fully accepting the fact that it is completely rational to expect insane speech and insane actions from insane people. It is crazy to expect otherwise.

[Hubert Flottz]

49. It's hard to sleep knowing that crazy people are in charge of the

most militarily powerful country on Earth. Hard to dream the American dream when you fall asleep, knowing you will be waking up the next day to the American nightmare. Hard to drift off for thinking and wondering, if your grandchildren will get a chance to grow up too.

[TWiley]

56. That is a good point.

Our Nuclear arsenal is in the hands of a man who hears voices and talks to imaginary friends.

Great, now I will need to be tranquilized.

[Hubert Flottz]

60. Sorry bout that, try a few of these...

:beer:

[Gay Green]

62. It's enough to drive a man to drink!

Gay, straight or otherwise.

[Gay Green]

63. A woman, too.

.

[pitohui]

74. hugs to you

we don't need their so-called heaven full of hypocrites

[SemperEadem]

37. God or mammon (money)--who ya gonna serve?

I tithe by tipping well. The money goes to a far better cause when I do.

When you've got a mega-church to run, it takes money... and you're constantly focused on chasing $$$$, instead of living by Jesus' example.

Funny how he didn't need tithes and did a far better job at spreading his word.

[TWiley]

40. Maybe they are a decent Christian Group by real standards.

The old image of what a Christian is does not match what they truly are anymore. We need to update the definition to properly reflect popular usage.

I am SO thankful that I do not consider ANY of their hateful and fear based superstitions to have any basis truth. I pity those who have fallen into their religious deceptions.

[grasswire]

42. do you have a link for this?

I know a Unitarian minister who is always urging the faithful to give like fundamentalists do. This would be a great anecdote.

[GreenPartyVoter]

44. Oh my lord! I go to a conservative church and there is no way that

this would ever happen in that church. In fact, our pastor makes a point (even builds sermons around it now and then) that what you tithe is between you and God.

[qanda]

48. She would do well to educate herself about tithes

A very good place to start would be "Beyond Tithes and Offerings" by Michael and Mitchell Webb

On Edit: Many churches are like this. They don't say they will kick you out, but you cannot participate in parts of the ministry if you don't tithe. That includes being a part of the choir or a Sunday School teacher. My old church used to have a tithing list that showed all the people who had paid their tithes each week.

[Stryguy]

53. A church wants your money! Get outta town! *g*

[rasputin1952]

55. I posted this because this one of the reasons Christianity has such a

bad reputation. I am occasionally wary of telling people I hold Christian values simply because of things like this.

Don't get me wrong, I am as far from a 'fundy' as one can get, but I do believe that forgiveness, charity, empathy, caring, love and avoiding hypocrisy are key to a meaningful life. These are some of the values that Jesus taught, and are so easily tossed aside by the 'religious right'.

I am poor, I expect to be poor for the rest of my life, as far as my financial status goes. I've had rough times, some of them by my own making, and some of them have just been tossed upon me. but I am not crying in my soup; I am rich, very rich, as I have many friends an acquaintances that share some core values. Many of them are here at DU. One not need be a Christian to show sympathy or charity. One need not be a Christian to be forgiving or tolerant of others...one just needs to be human.

I do believe in God, and I do believe that Jesus was His son. But I also know that Buddha, Moses and others, have made great contributions to moral behavior. I do not discount them, and others shouldn't either. I am not a literalist in Biblical matters, I believe we should look beyond the printed page, and understand the meanings behind much of what what written. The old, "Seek and you shall find" deal. I don't think God sits on a cloud and dictates things to happen. I believe we are afforded free will, and as long as people aren't out to harm each other, but rather help each other, we are doing rather well.

I believe what I believe....and I respect others for what they believe. With the exception of those who would do harm to others, especially for profit.

So this 'church' would expel someone in need, rather than offer comfort or solace...IMHO it is not a church at all, but a congregation of spiteful and greedy people that will see their day of retribution.

[noonwitch]

59. My church is setting up a fund for members in this type of situation

Plus a scholarship fund for members' children.

We also would have sent a minister and/or volunteers to visit her in the hospital.

As we are a Unity church, most fundamentalists and evangelicals in the area don't consider us to be christians.

[xmas74]

66. Not really surprising.

I used to work w/ someone who wanted to become a member of an area church(not in the town that I live in now). He was denied membership because of a CREDIT CHECK!
I thought he had to be making that up until I heard similar stories from a few others (and they did not know each other). That's the most vile thing I've ever heard.

[AuntieM1957]

68. These assholes almost make me wish I believed in HELL

just so they would face it.

that poor woman - can you imagine living on $600 or less a month, and then being browbeated by those in your social circle (cause what the hell else is a church?) to give them 10% of it.

[txindy]

75. Plus, held up as a public display

And then having people told that she's no longer worth associating with because she can't tithe. Or does this 'church' seriously believe that the brainwashed won't take this expulsion that way?

[progressoid]

71. Wow, she got off easy. Why didn't they just use her cat as an offering...

God used to love a good burnt offering.

[knitter4democracy]

72. Just foul--this is just foul!

When He comes back, Jesus is going to get some cords, twist them together, and go on another ramage against the moneychangers in the churches. You'd think we'd have learned the first time. :eyes:

That anyone professing a call to the ministy could actually cut off a woman from her rights as a member when she's that ill is disgusting. Personally, I'm not sure about the tithe in her case, anyway. If she really felt led to, that's one thing, but if she was pressured to, that's another. Sixty bucks a month is a lot of money to her but probably not that much to the church overall. Heck, they could've gotten ten other members to up their giving by six bucks a month to cover it if it were that freakin' important.

That pastor does not understand the Bible, the theology he studied in college, or the meaning of Christian charity and tithing.

[mcscajun]

73. Mercenary Yahoos, for certain...

A couple of stanzas from "Jesus, He Knows Me" by Genesis

Do you believe in god
Cos that’s what I’m selling
And if you wanna get to heaven
I’ll see you right

Won’t find me practising what I’m preaching
Won’t find me making no sacrifice
But I can get you a pocketful of miracles
If you promise to be good, try to be nice
God will take good care of you
Just do as I say, don’t do as I do

There’ll be no doubt in your mind
You’ll believe everything I’m saying
If you wanna get closer to him
Get on your knees and start paying

PSA: no typos in the above...what you say is what they meant.

[jbnow]

76. A nicer story

A client of mine was quite mentally ill but able to work and earn decent number as a computer programmer, with some support to work around delusions.
He was not good with money and had an ex and family to support.His house was old and falling apart, his clothes old and in bad shape...just to name a few things.

His priest called concerned because the guy thought he would go to hell if he did not tithe 10% of his gross wages (about 200 per week) and always made it his top priority. Because the guy trusted me he was asking him to talk to me about it. The priest told him he had prayed on it and God wanted him to give $1.00 per week and wanted me to encourage that.
The story is longer, but I helped the client believe that listening to the priest was a priority and canceled any "sin" associated with not tithing the 19%. We really needed him to feel good about it so guilt wouldn't add to his problems and he did. He wouldn't take back the prior tithes (since the priest hadn't mentioned it initially) but did start giving a single dollar and feeling good about it.

[salin]

88. Now THAT is what I would expect, in terms of compassion

and concern from a religious leader. Thanks for sharing that story.

[niallmac]

77. Asshole Church! Is that an actual pic of Rasputin?

[rasputin1952]

81. That is a real picture of Rasputin, not me, but the real thing when he

was younger, and still a somewhat sane priest...:) Someone years ago tinted it, as it was originally B&W...:)

[niallmac]

82. He is one fascinating figure in history.

[rateyes]

79. I know a guy who took out a $10,000 loan..

to buy a car (yeah, it was years ago) and the preacher came and asked him where his $1000 tithe was--on money he borrowed! And, you know what--the guy went and got another $1000 for the church. Oh, well, those Cadillacs and Mercedes cost money.

[kodi]

80. the churchman forgot to read Luke 20:45-21:4

<45> While all the people were listening, Jesus said to his disciples, <46> "Beware of the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and love to be greeted in the marketplaces and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. <47> They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Such men will be punished most severely."

<21:1> As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. <2> He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. <3> "I tell you the truth," he said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others. <4> All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to give.

[Daphne08]

86. Very Christian of them!

I've been a member of two different churches in my lifetime, and I've never heard of such cold-hearted people!

I hope the daughter talks some sense into the mother.