I'm surprised that * and Rove made such a mistake with Sheehan

[Michael_UK]

I'm wondering if Bush had just met with Sheehan early on, he would have defused the protest. Normally, Rove has been particularly talented at defusing these situtations. Now I can't see a way out of this for Bush - he just looks worse every day.

Anyone else surprised that * but particularly Rove f**ked up here so badly?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. they expected their ravenous righteous religious nuts to take her out

(figuratively, not literally) but it appears as that has failed.

[Skittles]

2. why, Michael?

these are the same incompetent assholes who thought Iraq would be a cakewalk, who thought outing a CIA agent was appropriate, who thought major tax cuts would bring job growth; I could go on and on

[Michael_UK]

4. I'm not surprised in the slightest...

...that they f**ked up Iraq (that was to be expected) but they have been great at polishing turds - i.e. winning the PR war. This one they are really losing.

[Benhurst]

20. Right. They are not smart -- they're just totally ruthless.

[Jade Fox]

3. Not really......

In spite of their vicousness, these are not real bright guys. Rove only
knows one mode: attack and smear.

By the way, we're lucky they aren't bright. God help American if they
were smarter.

[rodeodance]

12. i really think they just thought they could ignore her......but.......

[abluelady]

32. There is a reason Bush is called a moron!

[meow2u3]

5. WTH! Bush and Rove make mistakes?

Don't you know any better? Bush and Rove never do anything wrong. How ignorant can you get? :sarcasm:

[Inspired]

6. Actually I am suprised, eom

[dogday]

7. Rove never saw this coming-no one did

This was one woman who wanted to talk to the President who had an idea. Yes everybody has gotten on board with support for her, but it started with just one person and Rove does not understand that concept...

[Michael_UK]

8. And that's why it's such a great protest

You american patriots are making us Brits feel proud of you again. Sheehan is showing what makes America so great.

[marbuc]

14. Is this a widespread perception among the common Brit?

[Michael_UK]

15. Well...

... probably not so much as among those who are taking an interest. There was a great piece on Newsnight (BBC program) a few days ago. It was a very in depth piece.

Sheehan's protest is coming across (for those political junkies like me) as a protest reminiscent of the great protests of the 60s, and I'm hoping it represents a true tipping point

[marbuc]

18. The number of people here that are politically aware

is quite small. Many are unfortunately downright ignorant. I believe this to be different in the UK, and Europe as a whole. Are most aware of this situation, and do they react positively?

[Michael_UK]

19. ...

To be fair, I think most people in Europe aren't especially politics savvy. I have the impression it's slightly better than in the States (no offense) - I think geography plays a part - we have to know a little about France, Germany,etc when we live so close, and the UK is fairly cosmopolitan

[NewJeffCT]

25. no offense taken

while we're probably a more diverse country than the UK in terms of racial & ethnic makeup, a lot of Americans are somewhat sheltered when it comes to life outside the US. Most regular TV news has very little to say about what goes on outside our borders unless it is a huge event (tsunami, subway bombings, SARS from a few years back, and, of course, Iraq)

[marbuc]

27. No offense taken

I hope that you all are more politically savvy than Americans, if not the world is indeed in trouble.

[dogday]

28. Some of us look at the World View a lot

more than we used to.

[marbuc]

30. some, but not nearly enough

In fact one could argue that the "Americancentric world view" inspired the terrorism (or "terra", as some llike to call it) we are now attempting to fight

[billyskank]

22. Not that the people themselves are any better

Mostly we just have better news.

[splat@14]

9. I don't think thay could have done anything different from their

perspective. Shrub has nothing to offer in any conversation with Cindy and Rove knows he probably would have stuck his foot in his mouth ("i gotta live my life" kinda thing or worse). IMO, this was a no win situation for George and Barbara's little boy.

[Michael_UK]

11. I think the only way out....

... would have been very early on. After that comment about "getting on with my life" it was all downhill for *

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

26. Yes, but even if he had some kind of lame meeting with her early on,

even if she were unsatisfied by any answer he gave, she wouldn't have much justification to continue camping out there. The wingnuts could say, "he met with her, didn't he?"

She would probably have had to leave, he, for all his flaws, wouldn't look like a guy who was afraid to look a mom in the eye whose son died for his mistake, there would be no Camp Casey and no candlelight vigils across the U.S. for the nightly news to show that ordinary people in EVERY neighborhood are against this abomination of a war.

But now it's too late. Because shrubco has made such a big deal about not backing down in this and every other instance, there's no way they will do anything that will be seen as a retreat or reversal.

And even if they did, I believe that one night of candlelight vigils across the land has let the horse out of the barn.

[splat@14]

33. Yea, no argument. If it was going to do any good it had to happen early.

[ComerPerro]

10. She would have torn him apart, but it wouldn't have gotten any attention

[Nite Owl]

13. Well it did take the attention

off of the Plame investigation. Maybe that was the worse thing for them after all they can smear the wild liberal lefties on this one. Even if that hasn't worked it was better than the talk of treason.

[fishnfla]

16. Speculating here

1. They were caught by surprise during a slow news period with a bored WH press corps itching for a story
2. And its a good story. Grieving mother of a dead soldier of a specious war. I love the moral authority angle
3. Story caught the big momentum at a time when public opinion was swinging against the war and the president
4. Their big mistake is they a) thought it would blow over or,b) they thought there would be a silent majority backlash=their supporters turned out to be Larry Mattlege, Larry Northern,and the 'we dont care crowd' Now these asshats with sheets, as in "3 sheets to the wind".

Sometimes stuff like this is all coincidental and timing

I'm itching to see the Gold Star Moms from Georigia, what happens then

[The Sleeper]

17. It's not that surprising....

She came from under the radar.

They play only in the world of politics; dealing with actual PEOPLE is beyond them.

[tomg]

21. Where is Rove incidentally?

I could be wrong, but it seems that he has more or less dropped out of sight. This is an absolute PR nightmare that one would not expect to have happened. The only thing I can think of is that either they were already doing so much damage control ( Plame, DSM) that Cindy Sheehan just slipped by or they mistakenly saw it as limited in impact and a "distraction."

[Sgent]

23. I'm not surprised at all

Rove has a lot on his mind -- upcoming indictments, etc.

As for Bush, well, he's Bush.

[Mika]

24. Its a great distraction from the failure of "democracy" in Iraq ..

.. as in the failure of meeting the essential deadline (according to Condi a few weeks ago) for the Iraqi constitution.

[stepnw1f]

29. I'm Not Surprised but I Agree...

that they did fuck this one up. "Hubris" somes to mind.

[TheFarseer]

31. yeah, all he had to do was meet with her

let her ask one question and then do all the talking from there. The worst she could have done was go bonkers and then she looks bad not him. They have their talking points on reasons for going to war. If she refuses to accepts them, he still gave her the reasons.

One guy on here suggested they are letting anti-war gain steam so they can pull out and then blame the inevitable defeat on liberals that wouldn't let them win the war.

[lildreamer316]

34. Rove is distracted; and it is telling that he didn't do anything..

I think it means the WH distanced themselves from Rove (maybe on Daddy Bush's orders because of what happened during his time?)and are not really in communication enough to have forestalled this. Makes sense to me. I'm sure they are vacilliating on whether or not to use any advice he would give for fear it will blow up in their face later (indictments--something coming out at trial/questioning why WH used his influence after finding out he was leaker?)