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kittenpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 09:59 AM
Original message
"Women's social rights are not critical to democracy in Iraq"
Edited on Sun Aug-21-05 10:11 AM by kittenpants
according to ex-CIA analyst Reuel Marc Gerecht! What!? I don't know who this guy is or if he's serious, but I'm about to have a freaking aneurysm I'm so mad after hearing that. He said this in the context of women not having the right to vote in the US in the early 1900's, but how can he possibly equate that to the Islamic societal repression of women. So it's fine if they stone women for getting raped as long as the men can vote? Arrrgghhh!

edit - I forgot to say, he said this on Meet the Press this morning.
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Translation: Women are not humans, they don't need "democracy"
:mad:
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. Violation of basic human rights ...
"no problem" as long as the group with out are women ... With NO OTHER group would this be acceptable.

Yet, there are only flashes of anger here (on the DU) and the occasional whisper (then ignore) in the MSM and society at large.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. The Republicans always come up with something, don't they?
For a party with a majority in the three branches of government and virtual ownership of the media, they're very threatened by criticism. They're so sensitive to it, they have to reply to every criticism of their policies, even if they don't HAVE a reply that makes any sense! Next thing you know, they'll be calling it "The Women's Movement, Iraqi-style".
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. Disgusting.
How typical of the nazi party; they truly hate all women.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. Where there are no 'social' rights for women...
...THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY.

PERIOD.

The U.S. of A is a good example of that problem.
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. Someone needs to inform this idjit...
that the right to participate in your government is NOT a "social right". The right to choose how you dress is not a "social right". The right to choose your own spouse and leave them if you choose is not a "social right". And the right not to be stoned to death for being raped is NOT a "social right".

Only someone who never had to worry about his right to control his own body would consider women's rights nothing more than "social rights".

*sigh*
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. Then stop calling it a Democracy and STOP using the word freedom
Now I'm just a girl so please forgive my emotional, non-rational outburst on matters I obviously couldn't fully comprehend given the fact that I have a vagina but how does enslaving half the population bring Democracy to a country?

:grr:

Fuck you Reuel.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
8. PNAC-er...........
Reuel Marc Gerecht is the Director of the Middle East Initiative at the Project for the New American Century and a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. He is recently a contributor to Present Dangers: Crisis and Opportunity in American Foreign Policy (Editors Robert Kagan & William Kristol; Encounter Books, 2000) and is the author under the pseudonym of Edward Shirley of Know Thine Enemy: A Spy's Journey into Revolutionary Iran (Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 1997). A former Middle Eastern specialist in the CIA, Mr. Gerecht writes frequently on the Middle East, Central Asia, terrorism, and intelligence, in such publications as the New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The International Herald Tribune, The Atlantic Monthly, The New Republic, The Weekly Standard, Foreign Affairs, Foreign Policy, The Middle East Quarterly, Playboy, and Talk.


What a freak!!
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Yeah, he's a good one
One of the members of their clique that you don't normally see, but when he does show up(usually at some conference on C-SPAN), he comes up with crazy ideas. But what else could you expect from a movement bent on trying to take over the world.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
9. it's a justification for the coming theocracy in Iraq
making it seem as if Iraq, under a theocracy, will eventually expand to include women - just as America eventually expanded (to a degree)

that's why the comparison to America

but it's a lie - a theocracy doesn't allow for equality

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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. The WH & GOP should be hammered on this.
And since it's on video, it's perfect for Jon Stewart and Keith Olbermann to focus on.
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Citizen Jane Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:26 AM
Original message
I'm still too angry about this to speak
The dog and cat were mightiily surprised when I started shouting you f*tard and slammed around looking for some ibuprofen for the instant headache.

I think that if this whole quagmire ever comes to an end we will find that the people who have lost the most will be the Iraqi women and when a$$holes like this guy say this stuff I just want to beat the crap out of them (and I ABHOR violence).
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. and AEI-er. Here's an article
Edited on Sun Aug-21-05 10:27 AM by mzteris
here's an excerpt of his writing....

". . . Women's Social Rights

Many in America may not like the outcome--liberals are already overwhelmingly defining Iraqi democracy's success by whether women's social rights are protected and advanced--but the deliberations foretell what is likely to happen elsewhere in the region as it democratizes. Contrary to so much commentary in the U.S., it is the compromises--the liberal "imperfections"--in Iraq's experiment that may have the most positive repercussions in the Middle East.

. . . Continued and growing participation of the Sunni Arabs, however, may not grant Washington any surcease to suicide bombers. The Sunni elite is increasingly participating in part precisely because it has limited and diminishing influence over the young Iraqi men who fight alongside, and aid and abet, foreign holy warriors. But this cooperation should be enough to keep the Kurds and the Shiites from taking large-scale revenge on the once-dominant community. As long as revenge killings remain small-scale, the constitutional process will likely roll forward and over the Sunni Arabs who want to make compromise and cooperation tantamount to communal suicide. (bold added)

. . . Irrespective of the compromises demanded by the Kurds and Sunni Arabs, these internal Shiite differences are now likely sufficient to ensure that the political center will hold among the Shiites, the sine qua non for progress in Iraq. This center may, however, be comfortable with a marriage of Islam and politics that many Americans fear and loathe. Indeed, a powerful bond between the Sunni and Shiite Arabs may likely be an increased stress on their common cultural and religious traditions. Many Kurds, too, may not find this as upsetting as many Western commentators believe.

Sharia or Islamic family law, probably the most resilient aspect of the Holy Law since it culturally underpins the highly stable Muslim home, may make some comeback in Iraqi law and in the new constitution. In all probability, this process will not be a Trojan horse, allowing for the subversion of democracy itself. As long as women have the right to vote and the Iraqi Parliament remains the supreme chamber for political debate--and neither is seriously in question--then the inclusion of some aspects of Islamic family law into Iraq's civil code may well reinforce democracy's chances. Iraq's nascent representative system, blessed by both Shiite and Sunni legal scholars, will gradually and inevitably open for public debate all aspects of the Holy Law and its proper place in a democratic society. The key is to begin the evolution by pulling mainstream clerics into the discussion. Americans of a feminist disposition should realize that equal rights between the sexes is not a precondition for the growth of democracy. If this were so, Western democracy never would have developed. (bold added)

The secularization of religious discussions in Iraq is already very far advanced--just compare the Iraqi clerical discussion of constitutional government at the time of Iran's 1905-1911 Constitutional Revolution with the debate today and you will quickly see how successfully Western ideas, first and foremost democracy, have redefined or submerged older Islamic ideals hostile to representative government. The democratic government Iraqis are trying to build will have much more real-world appeal and traction in today's Middle East than the very liberal democracy that many Americans in the occupation's Coalition Provisional Authority and in Washington wanted to build in 2003. . ."

http://www.aei.org/publications/filter.all,pubID.22969/pub_detail.asp

edit to add link.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
12. witnessing the war against women

thanks for this post
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kittenpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. kick in light of new threads
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. he knows he's wrong....they are all in deep shit
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. I saw him, and he also said
that it just wouldn't be so bad if we got an Iraq with a "1900 U.S. style democracy" -- that is, if Iraqi women couldn't vote. (Women got the vote in the U.S. in 1919, and 1920 was the first year women could vote.)
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KarenInMA Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. They're only women. Not important.
:sarcasm:
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