had a run-in with a total neocon: need info

[thereismore]

Yesterday I had a fairly long exchange with a total neocon. One of the things he said was "insurgents are killing more civilians than US soldiers, that's why we are there". He also said that Iraq had numerous ties with Al Qaida, "especially around 1985, with people who later became Al Qaida". At that point I asked him "Do you think Saudi Arabia had more contacts with Al Qaida than Iraq?" He said yes. I asked him "Why didn't we attack Saudi Arabia then?"

Do you know what he said? Get this: "Besause Saudi Arabia has the world's largest supply of oil and it would disrupt the world economy if we did that." Can you believe this guy can live with himself?

To top it off, he said how good it is that Iraqis are now free "not safer, but free!" and that rape rooms were closed. To which I said that rapes continue under a new management. He didn't believe me. I said there are pictures. He said "show me."

Which is why I am asking for help. There were threads here dealing with the new Abu Ghraib pictures to be released, and some of them had links to sites that, as far as I could tell, showed American GI's raping Iraqi women. One incident was under the open air, one was apparently in prison. I wonder if someone could post the links again, I cannot find them with search. Please do not post pictures, just links. This stuff is the worst. I would not be looking for this unless this neocon challenged me. Maybe that's just what the doctor ordered for him...

Thanks

[magellan]

1. There are pictures and video of the rapes

But the Pentagon is refusing to abide by a recent court order and release them.

[Waya]

2. Love neo cons....

..they're so predictible..lol.

[thereismore]

4. I know, but

there were some links on this forum to some pictures that are probably not part of the Pentagon pictures that nevertheless show rapes.

[magellan]

13. The only ones I saw

...were sketches drawn to accompany witness statements, sorry.

[bryant69]

3. They are going to bring up the horrors of Saddam's regime

More and more - they have to - it's the only argument they have left.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[thereismore]

5. So nice, so clean, so...republican. allow me to puke now. nt

[derby378]

6. Beware of fake Iraqi rape photos, too

Some anti-Semitic Mexican site circulated photos reportedly showing an Iraqi woman being raped by three US soldiers, but the photos were traced to a pornographic fetish site, and the woman in the photos apparently consented to the acts. So it looks like some scam artists got busted this time - but there's more around the bend.

[thereismore]

7. thanks n/t

[Waya]

10. The photos....

...that Derby is talking about can be found all over the net and have been proven to be a fake.
Seymor Hersh wrote an article that the photos which actually show rape of women and even children haven't been released and the Pentagon is fighting tooth and nail to keep it that way - they're afraid it would cause anything from discontent to riots if they released them. So they must truly be the essence of horrible and depraved.
But judging by the photos we have seen so far - tell your neo con that if the 'bravest and finest of our military' commit these kinds of actions, it's entirely in the realm of the possible and believable that they wouldn't shy away from raping women and teens.

[thereismore]

12. Why do you hate Americe ... nt

[Cocoa]

8. Iraq had contacts with al Qaeda in 1985?

so did the US. Reagan, the mujahideen and Saddam were one big happy family.

[seabeyond]

9. "not safer, but free!" ..... constitution islamic law. not free.

firstly dont let him get away with saying hte iraqi's are now free. with saddam women had more rights than any middle east country. now they lose rights. that means stonings for the WOMEN when THEY are RAPED.

call the man on it. dont let freepers get away with iraqi's are now free. we brought them freedom. complete opposite

[thereismore]

11. I didn't let him get away with it.

I couldn't type the whole conversation here, but I told him they are going to have Islamist constitution, if any.
Is that what Americans are dying for? He said "That's okay, if that's what they (Iraqi people) want." He sees it as an expression of freedom to choose Islam. Democracy is not the goal anymore, neither is freedom of religion, which they had under Saddam who could care less. Neocons are spineless. They don't care about the rights of women. I think they wouldn't mind if American women were wearing burkas.

[seabeyond]

14. thank you and i agree the loss of women rights isnt a deal to them

they are working awfully hard here in the u.s. to take away my right. f* them. lol lol. pisses me off.

thanks

[derby378]

15. Well, that statue at the DoJ did...

...you know, the one that Ashcroft had covered up because its breasts distracted him during press conferences.

[mzteris]

16. tell him - that's funny

- AL QAEDA didn't EXIST in 1985!!

It wasn't "established" until 1989!

1989 Al Qaeda Established

Osama bin Laden -- along with Muhammad Atef and Abu Ubaidah al Banshiri -- founds Al Qaeda ("The Base"). The organization operates out of Afghanistan and Peshawar, Pakistan.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/etc/cron.html

[thereismore]

17. Yes, he knew that much. Iraq allegedly had "contacts" with

people who would later become Al Qaida... What can I say to that? They believe anything, they grasp at straws of the strawman they built for themselves. Thanks for the response.