Where do you stand on illegal immigration?

[Chocolatebison]

I would have to say if illegals are already in the US they should stay but the border should be sealed.

[KG]

1. .

:popcorn:

[growlypants]

2. The border should be sealed and if the INS or the police find an

illegal, they should be deported. Period.

[Lefty48197]

3. Give me your tired, your weary, your huddled masses...

that's how I feel. Make the illegal immigration from Mexico, LEGAL, and the "illegal immigrant" problem will go away.

[DemInDistress]

9. most of those "tired,weary and huddled mases"

came to America legally and passed through Ellis Island.Remember that??

[Lefty48197]

16. Yes. Yes, I do.

Change the law that makes the Mexican immigrants illegal, and they won't be illegal immigrants anymore, they'll be Americans.

[Waya]

4. Given the fact.....

...that this Country came into existence thru Illlegal Immigration maybe I shouldn't comment, really.

:evilgrin:

[bahrbearian]

5. Its illegal

[growlypants]

6. excellent point

[bahrbearian]

26. I raise Rat Terriers.

I do Confirmation and Agility. Our Clubs work with APBT clubs . I was a little intimidated at first ( and that was after raising 5 Rottwielers) APBT are good dogs, I was amazed how fast they run a course (major competition against my fast little Rats) they just need good owners, like all doggies. In shows the APBT people named my Molly "Snacks".

[growlypants]

33. I love my pits. I would never get another dog, I'm totally biased

towards them. :) They are so loving and are totally devoted to their owners (family). Its a shame that a select few have destroyed the image of these noble animals. The ones I have now are such huge BABIES its almost embarassing. I doubt mine could run a course, they'd get distracted, run into the crowd and pee on someones leg. Then run away with that big dumb pitbull smile on their face.

[Vincardog]

7. Are the illegals immigrating? I heard that band once they were great

[DemInDistress]

8. I dont agree...

I say lock the borders and start screening out the undocumented,sorry!
Send some 5/10 million cheap laborers back to Mexico and maybe Americans can pick up some better paying jobs....

[Cobalt Violet]

10. I don't feel like this is an issue I can discuss on DU.

But yeah...I do have very strong feelings about it.

[Maple]

11. The trick here of course

is in 'sealing the borders'.

Nice theory, just not possible.

[noahmijo]

12. My answer is simple but the solution is hard

Anybody who wants to come to this country for a better job should be allowed to do so AND be given fair wages (but then again LEGAL citizens don'tt even get that so that might be tough)

At the same time I support strong border security not because I fear illegal immigrants but I fear the security flaw that such an opening brings.

I have to say I also don't believe in giving immigrants healthcare while homeless veterans haunt the streets of your local downtown (I say haunt because it haunts me that men who put their lives on the line for this nation can't even get a decent meal or a roof over their heads without begging)...it's not a racial thing in fact I AM of Mexican descent and I still say this. Of course I am not against giving medical assistance to illegals who seriously are desperate and just wanted to escape the horrors of Mexico, but at the same time I don't like the idea of it becoming a normal pattern whilst many Americans go without healthcare.

So I guess I fully support giving opportunity to anyone who wants a better life regardless of where they come from, but at the same time simple crashing down the borders and saying "come one come all!" without any sort of system would not prove to be a very good idea.

I dunno man it's a tough nut to crack really. Personally if this country actually gave two shits about stopping illegals the first thing it would do is implement RICO statutes on the upper class Republicans who hire them as maids and cheap labor and then send a message to Mexico that it no longer participates in the act of giving jobs to immigrants that no American would do and that message really needs to get to Fox who in my opinion does far more to hurt the problem than solve it.

[laureloak]

13. I think illegals should leave and we should seal our borders. nt

[skids]

14. Here's where I stand...

The southern borders should be closed. Tight. For the northern borders, we might be able to work out something where we trust Canada to secure it's own and so security that border isn't as crucial.

We should not even consider the amnesty/deportation coin until after the borders are closed.

Since the borders are not closed, we don't need to talk about amnesty or deportation. That's like talking about how much cheeze dip to buy before you even know how big the party is going to be.

About all we can do in the meantime is ensure the economic incentive for hiring illegal immigrants is removed.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Balbus]

22. Well...

"I would have to say if illegals are already in the US they should stay but the border should be sealed."

Pretty much states his position, doesn't it?

[TransitJohn]

17. Humanity transcends

any hokey ass geopolitical boundaries. JMOHO

[SalmonChantedEvening]

18. Until those who knowingly hire them are really punished,

Nothing else we do will be effective. It must cost those employers more to be caught hiring illegals than it saves them to hire them.

That, in conjuction with tight border security will help to reduce the problem, though eliminating it altogether, as with any crime, will always be an impossibilty.

As for those already here, I'd think that all but the most extreme hardship cases (children without any living relatives who's immigrant parents have died, just as an example) should be returned to their native countries, and if only as a minor consolation, be given some minor headstart in the application process for legally re-entering the U.S.

[NobleCynic]

36. I agree

Without any effective punishment of the employers of illegal immigrants, the situation will never change. With give or take 10 million people working illegally, it can't be that hard to find their employers. Make it actual jail time and thousands of dollars in fines instead of a slap on the wrist fine, then actually enforce it, and maybe something will change.

Punishing illegals already here just hurts the people most vulnerable of all involved and does nothing to slow immigration. I'd like to see the employers of illegals (mostly Republican by the way) thrown in jail.

[SmokingJacket]

19. "sealed"?

How would you do that? A wall with snipers posted? Um, that would be gross.

There should be a immigration program in which foreign nationals can register if their work is needed here -- it should be right at the border and farmers and others who want to hire them should be able to hire them right there -- but not for less than the minimum wage.

Otherwise, they should not be hired, and anyone caught *hiring them* should go do jail. That's right, rich people who don't want to pay a decent wage to a nanny: jail.

Another program can be designed for illegals who are already here: certain numbers of years worked can be applied toward citizenship, or something.

All my ancestors were immigrants -- I think they are the backbone of the country.

[Chocolatebison]

25. More border patrol, a taller and stronger fence

[BlueStateModerate]

20. Unless we want to be a third world country...

It's time to take control of the southern border. Illegals are driving down wages for poorer Americans and taking jobs. The only reason that Bush won't crack down on the problem is because he and his corporate cronies want their source of cheap labor. Not only do we need to build a "Wall of the Rio Grande," but we need to really crack down on any incentive for companies to hire illegals. I'm normally strongly against the whole "Papers, citizen!" type of mentality, but some basic proof of legal citizenship should be required when trying to get a job, get health care, or anything else required to really survive in America. Remove any incentive (jobs, social welfare...) and they will cease to come.

[MisterP]

21. on a balcony, with my tubular bells

[LeftyMom]

23. My grandfather was an illegal immigrant

People say awful insulting things in front of me from time to time (even my own father, I guess he's forgot his Dad had false papers) and when I call them on it it's always "that's different." It's not. My grandfather was fleeing the grinding poverty and unstable politics of his home country. The only thing that separates my family from today's illegal immigrants is that they are generally darker than us.

[Waya]

28. Thank you...

...for making my point. To be blunt - this Country was founded by 'illegal immigrants', technically.

Like one poster said - removing the incentives, like jobs, welfare etc, another said build a 'wall' at the Rio Grande - and they will stop coming.
Hot damn, why did we not think of that? We should have built a wall and removed the incentives of free Land when the first ones came - maybe things would be different.


:evilgrin:

[LeftyMom]

44. Building a wall at the rio grande makes my point

Who's that going to keep out? Relatively poor mexicans, maybe. It's not going to stop people coming in on ships or planes or just overstaying thier visa. Canadians could walk over (they'd be nuts to do so) Hatians could still float over the ocean, eastern Europeans could still overstay tourist visas and Southeast Asians could still come over for school and never leave. A wall at the Mexican border would only keep out some relatively desparate Mexicans (and central americans coming in through Mexico, if they lacked the resources to enter another way) but it's an acceptable solution to people who say "illegals" when they really mean "brown people" or whatever the bias of the day is.


I know that's not what you're saying at all, I'm just replying to you because your comments inspired my further ranting. :)

[BlueStateGirl]

39. Self delete. Wrong spot.

[Lefty48197]

24. This is kind of a funny question

when you consider that most of the "illegal immigrants" in this country are concentrated in the southern border states from Texas to southern California, and are of Mexican descent.
I find it hilarious that any white son-of-a-bitch from Arizona, or any of those other states, has the nerve to cry about the Mexicans "taking over" their state.
I find that funny, because the Mexicans' ancestors were in Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, and California about 10,000 years before any person of European ancestry set foot there.

[Waya]

32. AHO!

:applause:

[HawkerHurricane]

27. I'm against it.

We should target those who HIRE illegals, and punish them to the full penalty. Make it cheaper to hire legal immigrants and American citizens than eat fines for breaking the law. Solve a couple problems at once.

[Chocolatebison]

29. Excellent idea

That's a good one.

[Cleita]

30. So which border are you going to seal?

Illegal immigrants pour in through Canada and ports on both oceans all the time, but for some reason or the other everyone wants to seal the Mexican border. Hmmm, could it be racist? If you don't want Mexicans and Central Americans entering our country then go after the people who hire them. I think you will find that the ones who shout the loudest are also the ones with undocumented nannies, maids and gardeners.

[Chocolatebison]

31. Both

If you seal one, they will just come through the other.

Our Canadian border is less patrolled than the Mexican one.

[Cleita]

35. And the oceans? They smuggle Asians and eastern

Europeans through all the time. It just can't be done. Do you know how much wilderness there is along the Canadian border? It's as hard to patrol as the Sonoran Desert. We need some better immigrant laws, not sealed borders.

[Maple]

43. Illegal immigrants

through Canada? Surely you jest. :rofl:

And the fact is..you can't seal either border, but certainly not the Canadian one. Do you have any idea how long it is, and where it goes?

And Mexicans are somehow going to get to Canada, sneak over the border and head to Texas or Arizona??

[napi21]

34. I say severly punish the people who hire illegals, AND

streamline the legal immigration process so it doesn't take years to legally live here.

I can't totally fault someone for doing whatever is necessary to get a job that pays them SOMETHING when they have absolutely nothing at home. I do however find GREAT FAULT with employers who pay anybody substandard wages. I'm calling for JAIL TIME! I know lots of managers, bosses, etc. who will do anything just because they're greedy, but I NEVER met even one who was willing to do even one hour of time for it!

I think that would stop the attraction that causes anyone to even want to sneak into our Country illegaly. Why bother? There's nothing to gain!

[havocmom]

37. Arrest, trials, prison and fines for the employers who make $$ on cheap

illegal labor would remove some of the incentive for illegal migration. Until that is addressed in a serious and meaningful way, all the fuss is for show.

So long as there are jobs for them, they will take the risks to come. So long as there is more profit to be made and little real risk for breaking the laws, illegal employers will keep hiring illegal immigrants and pocketing the difference from payroll and employee costs.

Bust the top of the equation and there will be faster results. Probably easier and cheaper to round up the employers than to chase the border crossers. Fat cats don't run as fast.

[Chocolatebison]

38. That is along the lines of what Hawker Hurricane posted

I totally agree with it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. I'm for the illegals. The poor and desperate trying to survive.

We rip off their countries then whine when they come to us to survive because their the wrong color.

Shameful.

I'm the son of an immigrant who came to this country for the same reason that these poor folks are coming here.

[BlueStateGirl]

41. I work in the restaurant industry. I know plenty of iilegal immigrants.

Mexicans, Guatemalans, and Irish.

All hard working, good people. I do not begrudge anyone who wants to a better life for themselves or their families.
I would illegally cross a border for work if it meant my family wouldn't starve to death.


However, I do appreciate that it is a drain on the economies of border states. And I do not think illegal immigrants should receive any benefits that American citizens are not receiving.

In my ideal world, we would have free labor markets, where everyone was payed a living wage. Realistically I do not ever see that happening.

I think some sort of guest worker program might work or permanent residence status. The worker would be allowed to work legally for a predetermined period of time, say 3 or 5 years. The immigrants would be eligible for all benefits entitled to a US citizen for the time worked in the country.

I do not know how I feel about a general amnesty. I have mixed feelings. But the reality is they are here. They are working just about everywhere in every business.

I think companies should be fined and puinished before the individuals are.

"Don't let the bastards grind you down." Bono

[LanternWaste]

42. I think it was Victor Hugo who wrote

I think it was Victor Hugo who wrote in the forward to Les Miserables that the red and black lines drawn on maps are not only imaginary, but have caused more wars than all other reasons combined (I agree on both counts).

As for me, the fundamental question is this-- Which is the greater moral crime: illegally escaping poverty or denying that escape so we can buy more CD's and a bigger television?

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...."