Telegraphing our play calls

[Kerebos]

What is the point of posts like the ones about sending recruiters to the pro-War rally? Do they not alert our enemies to what we planning?

This isn't the first time I've seen great ideas doomed to failure because the OP hasn't thought through the consequences of publicizing efforts before they materialize.

Do our freeper brethren not monitor this site and therefore now have several days to prepare their responses if in fact the recruiters show up?

Are there not GOP ops monitoring this site, and if so do you think they would allow some recruiter with a quota to harass pro-Bush, pro-War protesters organized by the same group that helped the swift boat crew?

What is gained by posts that telegraph strategy, or action efforts? Perhaps what we should do is post the RESULTS of good ideas like calling the recruiters to have them show up AFTER they have been executed and not before.


My 2 cents.

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. Good point - however, I think the more we play above board,

the better in the long run. The truth - via Cindy Sheehan - is taking hold, people are waking up. Remember what we did with bullies when we were young and at school? Declaw them by ignoring them. They are insignificant...they are meaningless. The enemy is the misadministration.

[Eloriel]

30. Funny thing about that

I heard an expert on bullies on the radio today say that parents should try to give their kids the skills needed to deal with bullies and get involved themselves if they need to, but WHATEVER THEY DO, don't tell their kids to just ignore the bullies.

It's one thing to be open and above board, it's another entirely to give away your play book. :shrug: Seems a simple enough concept to me.

[troubleinwinter]

2. I think it is smart to forewarn them that the recruiters will be there.

... so that they can remember to bring their Social Security card and a pen for filling out the forms.

We want to be as helpful as we can in facilitating enlistment for those who "support" the war, to relieve some of the stop-lossed troops and three-tour troops who feel that this is a criminal war of agression, until they can all be returned home.

I think it is good to tell them that the recruiters will be there, so they can be ready to STEP RIGHT UP.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

4. Another good point. And personally if...

I knew I was going to be showing up someplace unprepared (sans SSN, etc. as you mention) I think I'd just as soon pass on the whole event.

[Kerebos]

5. sure but

That addresses the first point but what about the second?

Do you think Bushco will let this recruiter show up and provide us with a PR nightmare for Bush gift wrapped?

Does this even make sense? Cindy is doing more to cripple recruiting efforts than anyone else has single handedly in a long time, why would recruiters be allowed to go and try and enlist counter protesters that are trying to make their jobs easier?

[txaslftist]

3. Who cares if they know recruiters will be there?

What kind of response are they going to come up with?

"No thanks, I gave at the office..."

Shit, sign 'em up.

[Eloriel]

31. I'm more concerned about recruiters getting tipped off that it won't

likely be worth their while. They might stay home instead of get out in that heat. I certainly would.

[ima_sinnic]

6. knowing recruiters will be there means even fewer of the yellow-

bellied hypocrites will show up. this is a good thing.

[Junkdrawer]

7. Last weekend's protest in Pittsburgh (w/ tasers) is a case in point...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4416370

[troubleinwinter]

8. Yuh, right.

Now that we have blown our secret strategery, bus loads of thousands of young republicans will be descending upon Crawford to sign up with recruiters, just to show DUers how wrong they are.

[understandinglife]

9. I guess we better alert the recruiters to bring along a bunch of extra ...

.... brochures, candy, soda and other cool stuff :evilgrin:


Peace.

[Kerebos]

10. well again

Again you are missing one of my points.

Let's say the GOP is monitoring this site, do you really think they would let this recruiter (that liked the idea) go anywhere near their Pro-War PR team? One phone call is all it would take to sideline him and the big idea.

OTOH had this great idea been kept to ourselves and off line then it might have worked.

That is my point. Telegraphing certain plays dooms them to failure. I hope you can see that.

[troubleinwinter]

11. It has never been to my taste to recommend to others

to not discuss an issue or subject.

I intensely dislike posts suggesting that others not talk about something.

It always makes me suspicious.

[Kerebos]

12. Suspicious?

What are you talking about? Where did I ever suggest not talking about something?

If you look really close you'll see that I only suggested that posters with ideas like this one actually execute them and then report AFTER the action has been carried out.

Thus not "telegraphing" the play to the opposition.

I intensely dislike posts that do not reflect the intentions of the OP and vaguely insinuate that there is an ulterior motive when reading comprehension would solve the paranoia.

[troubleinwinter]

13. "Where did I ever suggest not talking about something?"

HERE: (in your desire that the) "idea been kept to ourselves and off line".

We all know pukes read this site. So fucking what? We need not shut up in fear of what the nutcases will think.

To quit talking to one another would weaken us. NO DAMNED DEAL.

Why on earth do you think we should be scared of what the "GOP" snoops think?

Why do you think we should keep our ideas "to ourselves" and "offline"?

Why am I suspicious of people who think we should do so?

[wli]

14. cryptography might help to keep freepers out

But it also requires a lot of discipline (access control, accreditation/trust quantification, etc.), and is unlikely to be used effectively in any semi-public forum though it would be vastly less restrictive than a true code of silence.

[troubleinwinter]

16. Sshhhh! Mustn't let the GOP know...

our special tools, lest they decipher our super-secret agenda.

Keep that paranoia pumped up! Keep our plots and plans behind the scenes... they'll never guess what we are really up to! Do NOT talk about it publicly! 'They' could be trolling this board, you know, and then all our plans will be exposed and fail.

[Kerebos]

19. head shaking

All I'm suggesting is to think before you post. If you think you have a great "gotcha" type idea then DO it and THEN report it.

Can you give me one good reason why any of us would have to know about it BEFORE you actually DID it?

I'm not talking about protests or other actions that require publicity and you know it. Maybe instead of trying to be cleaver you should start thinking about how to beat these assholes. Your stupid post above shows me you don't give a shit about winning. All you seem to care about is being a smartass and you don't even care if you are right.

[troubleinwinter]

21. OK. I took your advice to heart.

I thought before posting this.

Why are you so focused on this issue? This is not the first thread in which you suggested that we must not talk about this.

In fact, your original post is a duplicate of what you posted in another thread.

Do you truly believe that we will beat the GOP/bush admin. by keeping it a secret about recruiters theoretically going to Crawford protests?

Puhleeze. If you really think about it, sending the recruiters is kinda a joke, don'tcha think? Ya think?

We are not going to beat them by not talking about what is happening. We can only fight them by talking truth constantly and loudly about every single aspect of what is happening.

I have been working a long time "to beat these assholes", but I doubt clandestine super-secret-surprise recruiters at the counter protest is quite it.

Sometimes we just yack to keep ourselves sane in an insane world.

Get fucking over it.

[Kerebos]

22. Mighty mouth

Why don't you attack the poster below that agrees with me?

I seriously doubt you have anything of value to add. I am sick and tired of people like you that jump on low post count people that dare to make suggestions. It is one of the reasons I took so long to post after finding this site last year.

No I don't think it was a joke to sent the recruiters, I really do think this would have been a fantastic idea had it been carried out properly instead of the 'look at how smart I am' way it was.

I am not focused on this issue I posted this thread because the other had slipped off the front page and I think it is a very important issue.

If you read what I post instead of seeing what you believe in them then you would see it wasn't a dupe post because I changed the wording to reflect the fact this was it's own thread.

Your straw man arguments are not only obtuse they are irritating.

Get "fuckin over" YOURSELF.

[Eloriel]

34. Why are YOU so focused (bent out of shape, really) about this issue?

Yours is the overreaction, by far.

And you're being rather a bully to a relatively new DUer, too.

[me b zola]

36. --.-..-...-- --...-.-. --.-..--.- -.-....-.-.--.

;)

[wli]

37. there are cryptosystems designed for this sort of affair

They're easy to use, but there are things you have to avoid doing.

[Kerebos]

15. Are you for real?

"To ourselves and offline" UNTIL THE ACTION IS CARRIED OUT.

But you knew that didn't you?

I'm done with you and your baseless paranoia.

If you can't even quote me correctly then there is no point discussing with you.

Perhaps it's YOU that wants to keep giving the freeps the heads up about things they can prepare themselves against. Your argument is otherwise disingenuous considering I never suggested doing anything other than thinking more strategically.

[troubleinwinter]

17. "To ourselves and offline"

I quoted you accurately. I copied and pasted from your post.

"there is no point discussing with you." I do agree with this.

[Kerebos]

18. I see

It's interesting how you will purposely misrepresent my point to further the paranoid fantasies you have instead of admitting that you were wrong.

Good thing there are only a very few like you here or nobody would want to post.

[troubleinwinter]

23. What a remarkable comment.

"Perhaps it's YOU that wants to keep giving the freeps the heads up about things they can prepare themselves against."

Never before today has anyone ever suggested that my purpose here is to give a heads up to freepers.

In this thread, other than suggesting that I want to give a heads up to freepers, you have called me "a smartass", disingenuous and paranoid.

I never mentioned freepers, YOU did. I never mentioned low post count, YOU did. I never called freepers "our brethren", YOU did.

[Kerebos]

28. grow up

breth·ren (brĕTH'rən)
n.
A plural of brother (sense 2) (sense 3) (sense 4).


You are not nearly as smart as you think you are. Others in this thread get my point why don't you?

[Eloriel]

33. Oh, lighten up

K. has a good point, and I'm surprised at the grief s/he's getting about it, as if keeping one's own counsel about strategy and tactics were some alien notion not worthy of consideration.

[elehhhhna]

24. You can BET the gop monitors this site. SO WHAT? From all

reports, recruiters have been contacted with the suggestion and they LOVE it. They aren't making mission and are desperate--they get punished for not meeting their numbers.

But I think we already 'splained all this to you on an earlier thread, didn't we?

[Kerebos]

32. no you didn't

I think this is a good idea. Why are you misrepresenting my point?

Unlike what you said below this HASN'T been done because the recruiter hasn't shown up yet. PERIOD. (And I'll bet he won't either now)

I'm sure the recruiter liked the idea as much as I did. I just wish the idea and it's execution could have been made public AFTER the recruiter showed up.

But you need to slap around anyone that makes a suggestion about how things are done instead of trying to understand the point.

Maybe you do understand the point but have a problem admitting error.

[Eloriel]

35. Get this: the woman who did this then put herself on Randi Rhodes

show spilling the beans. Stupid, IMO. I'd have waited until at least late today, if not sometime tomorrow before divulging what I'd done, no matter how clever. WHy? Because:

1. They DO monitor our site
2. Surprise is a good tactic all by itself
3. If I were a recruiter and learned that I was being set up, and that there weren't likely to be any good outcomes, I'd change my plans BACK -- probably go to the mall, where it's cool, instead. Or take my already scheduled day off.
4. If I were a freeper and planning to go, I'd have a chance to rehearse my "no's." Or make other plans if I didn't want the embarrassment.
5. Why give the freeper media a heads up on this, a chance to make hay of it at all? It could've been our little joke, once the deed had been done and the day -- hopefully with interesting anecdotes to share! -- a pleasant memory. They could do a LOT with this, and I wouldn't have given them the opportunity. (They may not, but I still wouldn't have given them the opportunity.)

[scarletwoman]

20. I think you are making a very good point.

And I find it rather discouraging that none of the thread respondents so far seems to really get it.

There's a distinction to made between a group action, such as a vigil or protest that obviously requires group communication and coordination in order to be effective; and an individual action whose effectiveness might very well be undermined by prior knowledge by those who have no real part to play in making it happen.

I completely agree with you in regard to the "recruiter to Crawford" idea. If someone truly intended to see this idea succeed, they would have quietly gone about finding out the necessary information and contacts in order to persuade a recruiter to visit the pro-bush camp.

When your intent is to set a trap, you do not advertise your intention to the quarry -- it's simple common sense.

sw

[elehhhhna]

25. It's been done. it's NOT a "trap". It's sensible.

[scarletwoman]

29. Sorry, your reply makes no sense to me.

What's "been done"? Has a military recruiter already visted the pro-bush camp? If so, do you have information about the result of this visit?

Setting a trap for one's enemies is a perfectly good tactic, why would you disavow it?

sw

[elehhhhna]

26. Okay next time we have a secret agenda the password is :POPCORN

[troubleinwinter]

27. OKAY! Oooops!.. I mean (okay...)