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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 07:55 AM
Original message
Why do Americans hate Castro with such a passion?
I really don't understand it.

As far as what I can glean he nationalized the place and rid the country of invaders. I mean, if China can't buy Unacol due to Congress for 'security reasons', where's the argument in Castro's choice to boot out American imperialists during his takeover?

To me it's largely a question of brainwashing.

Free trade and democracy are 'good' only if they fit into the foreign policy of the United States... as far as the United States is concerned. That's fucked up.

Unfortunately your press has no balls at all... unlike the BBC, CBC, Guardian, Independent, Globe and Mail et al. And the weavings of history a la' evil-commie-bastard-castro threads linger in your empty Zeitgeist.

I mean, it't not about him retaining control for decades, looking at the dictators and butchers who have been financed and supported by the United States in the last 60 years:

Such as... well to ( http://www.weblog.ro/soj ) name a few.

Hamid Karzai
(Afghanistan)
Mullah Omar/Taliban
(Afghanistan)
General
Jorge Videla (Argentina)
Heydar
Aliyev (Azerbaijan)
Ilham Aliyev
(Azerbaijan)
Colonel Hugo
Banzer (Bolivia)
Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada (Bolivia)
General Humberto Branco (Brazil)
General Arthur da Costa e Silva (Brazil)
General Emilio Garrastazu Médici (Brazil)
General
Ernesto Geisel (Brazil)
General João Baptista de Oliveira Figueiredo (Brazil)
Hassanal
Bolkiah (Brunei)
Lon Nol (Cambodia)
Pol Pot (Cambodia)
Jean-Bedel
Bokassa (CAR)
Hissene Habre (Chad)
Augusto Pinochet (Chile)
Chiang Kai-Shek (China/Taiwan)
Gustavo Pinilla (Colombia)
Laurent
Kabila (Congo DR)
Fulgencio
Batista (Cuba)
Garardo Machado (Cuba)
General
Rafael Trujillo (Dom. Republic)
Hosni Mubarak
(Egypt)
Isaias Afewerki (Eritrea)
Haile
Selassie (Ethiopia)
Meles Zenawi (Ethiopia)
General
Sitiveni Rabuka (Fiji)
George Papadopoulos (Greece)
Jorge Ubico (Guatemala)
Marco Arevalo (Guatemala)
Efrain
Rios Montt (Guatemala)
Gerard Latortue (Haiti)
Raoul
Cedras (Haiti)
Baby Doc Duvalier (Haiti)
Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti)
Roberto Suazo Cordova‡
(Honduras)
General Suharto‡
(Indonesia)
Shah Reza Pahlavi‡
(Iran)
Ahmad Bakr (Iraq)
Nuri as-Said (Iraq)
Saddam
Hussein (Iraq)
Ariel Sharon (Israel)
Edward Seaga (Jamaica)
Nursultan Nazarbayev (Kazakhstan)
Daniel
arap-Moi (Kenya)
Emir Jabir Al-Sabah (Kuwait)
Askar Akayevich Akayev (Kyrgyzstan)
Camille
Chamoun (Lebanon)
General Samuel
Doe (Liberia)
William Tolbert Jr. (Liberia)
William Tubman (Liberia)
Moammar
Abu Minyar al-Qaddafi (Libya)
Maaouya Ould sid Ahmed Taya (Mauritania)
King Hassan II (Morocco)
Mohammed VI (Morocco)
King Gyanendra (Nepal)
Anastasio Somoza Jr.‡
(Nicaragua)  
General Sani
Abacha (Nigeria)
Mohammed Zia Ul-Haq‡
(Pakistan)
Benazir
Bhutto‡
(Pakistan)
Pervez
Musharraf‡
(Pakistan)
Manuel
Noriega‡
(Panama)
Alfredo
Stroessner‡
(Paraguay)
Fujimori/Montesinos
(Peru)
Manuel
Odria (Peru)
Ferdinand
Marcos‡
(Phillipines)
Antonio
Salazar‡
(Portugal)
Ian Smith‡
(Rhodesia)
Nicolae
Ceausescu‡
(Romania)
Chun Doo-Hwan‡
(S. Korea)
Park Chung-Hee‡
(S. Korea)
Syngman
Rhee‡
(S. Korea)
King
Fahd bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud (Saudi Arabia)
Crown Prince Abdallah bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud (Saudi Arabia)
Siad Barre‡
(Somalia)
P.W.
Botha‡
(South Africa)
Josef Stalin‡
(Soviet Union)
Generalissimo
Francisco Franco‡
(Spain)
Hosni Zaim (Syria)
Enomali
Rahmonov (Tajikistan)
Turgut Ozal‡
(Turkey)
Idi Amin‡
(Uganda)
Yoweri
Museveni‡
(Uganda)
Islam Karimov
(Uzbekistan)
Marcos Perez Jimenez‡
(Venezuela)
Bao Dai (Vietnam)
Ngo Dinh
Diem‡
(Vietnam)
Mobutu
Sese Seko‡
(Zaire)

Castro was a pallbearer at former Canadian Prime Minster Pierre Trudeau's funeral.




Why are Canadians not considered enemies since they run a social democracy just north of your border?

As far as I can see, Chavez won the election fairly in Venezueala, according to Jimmy Carter... anyway.

And now the manipulative press of America tags Chavez as some kind of monster.

Ridiculous.

I really hope he turns off the tap and Americans feel the brunt of reality when it comes to tapping up the SUV's.

We in Holland are certainly feeling it with petrol at US$7.00 a gallon. Glad I got a bicycle...


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SouthernDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. I really do not think the American people do. The hostility between
governments is just an old grudge from the Soviet Era. Aside from some Cuban groups in Florida I do not think many people really care about Castro.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. You are correct
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bribri16 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. "Thinking" Americans don't hate Castro. But most Americans
can't or refuse to think for themselves. I would say that the ones who say they hate Castro, except for the former Cuban oligarch that fled to this country and Argentinia, don't even know anything about Castro. You could write Castro's history and what he did in history books and change his name to Thomas Jefferson and ole Thomas would be considered a hero of the highest order by the dittoheads in the US.
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Jon8503 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Agree with bribri; All those in Florida who lived in Cuba when
Castro took over, anyway, most were of the wealthy or in government with Bastista who was more ruthless than Castro. They did'nt like it when they lost their mansions and riches.
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Systematic Chaos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. In the global game of chess,
the US is just a few moves from "checkmate!" by the rest of the globe, and we're too damn blind and arrogant to see it. I just hope the military and the guys with the unlocking codes for the nukes tell these ready-for-rapture Bushco motherfuckers to piss off when they decide to take their ball, go home and nuke everybody....

:grr:
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. "I love Fidel Castro and his beard" - Bob Dylan
Americans love to hate "commies". Though they show no antipathy to fascists or "commies" who play along with our corporations. i.e. China.

"Liberals" love to show off their "patriotism" by attacking Castro.

And, of course there is the H.L. Mencken factor:

"Nobody ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the American people."
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. The Government hates Castro
Edited on Sat Aug-27-05 08:11 AM by libhill
Because he screwed up the corrupt little party they had going on down in Cuba. Mafia run nightclubs in Havana, American Businessmen were king shit, Batista was our boy, doing Uncle Sam's bidding. Then along comes Castro, kicks out the mob, the business men, Batista, the whole 9 yards. And in come the Soviets with their missiles. Not very nice, not very nice. Not to mention all of the well publicized Keystone Cop efforts to kill Castro by the idiots in the C.I.A.,with exploding cigars, poisoned wet suits; bizarre, just bizarre. The guy can't just co-operate and croak, and that pissed them off.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. you fell into a trap
the trap is accepting the corporate pigmedia definition of what 'americans' think...the corporate pigmedia are liars, and, as fox'news' gloats, they need '5 in the noggin' just to stop them from lying ...
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T Town Jake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
8. Ummmm, because he's a tyrannical asshat?
...that's a good enough reason all by itself.

By the by...I've been all over the Netherlands in years past, and have never met a native resident of that fine region who speaks, let alone types in English in such a fashion. "dutchdemocrat"? Uh-huh..sounds more like Brooklyn to me.

Your vernacular is showing.
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Systematic Chaos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Ruh roh, Rorge!
:popcorn:
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Actually
Edited on Sat Aug-27-05 08:50 AM by dutchdemocrat
Really, you have been all over the Netherlands? Where? I live in Gronginen I have been living in the Netherlands Antilles for ten years prior.

I carry a Dutch passport, have three fine young Dutch girls who speak more languages than you every will.

Born and educated in Canada? Of course, hence the reference to Trudeau. But you labeled me Jersey when I am West Coast.

Moran.
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H5N1 Donating Member (777 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #12
52. I have never seen Groningen spelled like that - Gronginen
Groningen is a municipality and city in the north of the Netherlands,
not the west (or did I mis-understand?).


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zippy890 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. cuban americans descended from
cubans who were ousted along with Batista(sp) hate Castro.

Many wealthy people were kicked out during the revolution.
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
11. Hate him? I hardly even *think* about him.
Edited on Sat Aug-27-05 08:24 AM by mcscajun
...and I grew up in the 60's, when Castro was part of the-then "Axis of Evil Dictators" that included Kruschev and Mao-Tse-Tung.

We were taught to fear them all, but Castro especially because he was just 90 miles from Florida.

The Bay of Pigs was the big thing, the embargo against Cuba, the Berlin airlift, "duck and cover", all that stuff.

Unless he's in the paper now, I hardly know he's there. What he does has no impact on my life.

So, no hate here.

Don't believe everything you read in the papers, son.
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ucmike Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. because people still fear "commies"
for some reason.

we hate cuba because they're communist, or socialist, or some combination of things...i guess. we don't seem to hate china, in fact we do huge commerce with them, but that little 3rd Worldish island in the gulf is a big commie threat for some reason.

most people have no idea what goes on in cuba, or why. they are anti-cuba because they don't know any different
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
14. Methinks it began when Castro made alliances with the Soviet Union
Edited on Sat Aug-27-05 09:06 AM by DinahMoeHum
shortly after taking power. The Soviet Union was in a tie with China for No. 1 bogeyman at the time.

Before then, Castro enjoyed support from many in the US, even in the government, thanks to articles by Herbert L. Matthews, a New York Times correspondent who "scooped" an interview with the guerilla leader while he was in the Sierra Maestra.

Suggest you Google the words "Castro" and "Herbert Matthews" for more info. Very interesting.

:shrug:
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #14
57. Your history is quite warped.
Edited on Sat Aug-27-05 11:23 AM by K-W
Castro turned to the Soviet Union after the US began making moves against him.

The US would not tolerate any form of independant Cuban nationalism. We considered the Island, so close to our coast, as defacto US property.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. Because he's useful
Godless Commie 100 miles off our shores. Boogah. Boogah.

If you can put a face on a purported threat, public opinion is that much more malleable. And stupid. Witness the less than adroit substitution of Saddam for Osama as Public Enemy Number One. Apart from the earlier guy having a beard, we hardly noticed.

Castro is certainly capable of malevolent mischief that can hurt the US -- the missile crisis and boatlifting his dregs to Florida come to mind. But to an extent these can be understood as responses in a ridiculously runaway dynamic, reactions to fullbore threats to his nation's sovereignty (Bay of Pigs, sponsored assassination plots).

He's just a tinpot dictator who's had the bad luck of being chosen for a starring role in America's long-running Us vs The Bad Guys mythos.
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tlsmith1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
16. Don't Believe Everything You Read
A lot of what you hear about America these days is coming from the right-wingers who control the media. Don't believe it. At least you are coming to DU & hearing another viewpoint. Personally, Castro is very low on my list of threats. So was Hussein. I am more concerned about Bush & bin Laden. And yes, I know about all the dictators the US has supported over the years. I don't like it. We need to learn that "the enemy of our enemy" isn't necessarily our friend.

Tammy
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. Smells like Bush to me
I would say that if you are brown enough and smell like a terr'rist you will end up in jail in the good ole' us of fucking eh too.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. Unlike the good ole' You ESSSSSSSS of AAAAAAAA
Edited on Sat Aug-27-05 10:06 AM by dutchdemocrat
Who knock of dark skinned people like flies... in modern day privately run slave labour camps. You call prisons. Right.

Don't kid me please.

The violations of the United States of America in terms of Human Rights are well documented and the fact that your present government are fighting against The Hague and all means of global responsibility are well documented.

I suppose you LOVE the fact BOLTON is there spreading your neo fascist agenda.

LOL.

Moran.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:14 AM
Original message
Dumbass?
You live in the land of...

Not me.

I love it when alleged small d "democrats" in the USSA slag social democracies.

It's all rather pathetic.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. dupe
Edited on Sat Aug-27-05 10:15 AM by dutchdemocrat
dupe
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. You apparently aren't quick enough to notice
but DU'ers don't use language like this posting here.

Either you have the information needed to discuss things or you go look for it.

Throwing tantrums is simply a tedious waste of time.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. Please assist by providing a link to the execution of political dissenters
The only executions in the press were the ones following a trial of three criminals who hijacked a boat, holding the passengers as hostage with knives to their throats.

Some of the hostages leaped overboard to save themselves. Political dissenters? Not exactly.

Nice try.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #27
38. I've got a link, by the way!
The ferry hijacking in question was a particularly ugly incident in which the hijackers took over a regular coastal commuter ferry by holding a knife to the throat of a female passenger and threatening to kill her, then taking the boat out onto the open sea where ocean swells could have swamped it and killed everyone on board had it not run out of fuel. The passengers finally had to jump overboard and swim to safety to escape the violent hijackers, who were then arrested. This whole incident was recorded in graphic detail by TV news cameras. There were about ten hijackers, and only the ringleaders were sentenced to death and executed.
(snip/...)
http://www.canadiandimension.mb.ca/extra/d0505es.htm
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. C'est la vie
As a journalist in the Dutch Caribbean I covered two incidents that I remember... in particular - where I personally picked up scores of dead Chinese, Haitian and Dominican bodies out of the water because of inept skippers who were trying to smuggle humans to the US.

But no one ever hears about it.

Nor will any of us ever know what really happened in the last minutes when the waves turned over the flimsy vessels and tossed the men, women and children into the sea where they eventually died in the tossing waters.

You choose to believe whatever propaganda you hear - c'est la vie' - that is, until you see what really happens rather than giddily jump for glee over the next article that is pumped in your face "proving your point".
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Good post. Sad facts. Thanks. n/t
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DougieZero Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
67. Maybe because he jails bloggers who disagree with him?...
Seriously... Castro?

There is a reason all the intellectuals fled Cuba...

I don't think he's much of a threat, but would you want him specifically to be your leader?
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #17
42. Yet in 45 years since the Revolution....
he hasn't come close to commiting the number of crimes Bushco has
in 4 1/2 years. Your hyperbole discredits you.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #42
48. Prove me wrong
Rather than emptying your loose facts.
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. My response was meant for post #17, not to your original post. My bad.
Edited on Sat Aug-27-05 11:12 AM by Jade Fox
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #17
45. finally
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Truly. Unfortunately, there's a steady stream of replacements.
They crave the excitement.

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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. Well I have been waiting...
Then again, I'd like someone to tell me why Goldmund was buried.... a man with over 7000 posts.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #17
46. Can't believe it took so long to get this one
:hi:
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
18. Because Florida is so evenly divided and the Cubans can swing it..
So both parties cater to them...

If Florida were heavily Republican or Democrat, we'd be friends with Castro...
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
19. C'mon, generalize much?
Your broad brush attribution of the Castro hate to the great mass of American people is unbecoming...the vast majority of us either don't care a whit about Castro or are more enlightened to a more honest accounting of the history between our two nations. The only hate you're really going to hear will be from Batista-loving Floridians or the asshats in our government. Don't confuse these 2 relatively small groups with the rest of us, 'k? :)
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. it's because Batista was just a misunderstood neo-lib.
:hi:
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. wasn't he though?
my heart weeps for him, really. :nopity:

:P

:hi:
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. well
the rest of you?



Where's DU?
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. huh? are we talking about the internet or real, live people?
Are you referring to the chattering masses on the internet, or actual live people across the country? Regardless, I think you're generalizing, and it's bs. Cuba is only an issue b/c certain small groups (relative to the total U.S. population) want it to be an issue.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
58. Great masses of American people do hate Castro.
Edited on Sat Aug-27-05 11:26 AM by K-W
Of course they dont think about him often, but they think of him as a communist and cold war threat.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
21. It's all about Florida and the Electoral College.
I doubt most Americans have any idea why they even have an opinion about Castro beyond the knee-jerk "he's a Commie." But Florida carries a lot of weight because of it's population and it's tendency to decide elections. Cater to the former Cuban oligarchs (who don't seem to be hurting any here, either), and you can carry the state.
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
23. You are confusing Republican Christians with all of the US
Jimmy Carter also defended Cuba against the bushtapo. The Republicans were starting the same old crap .... Cuba has WMD bla bla bla, and Jimmy headed them off.

49.9% voted against these assholes, and now public support for their policies is in the 30% range.

Unfortunately, their denizens control policy and the media. There is a sizeable opposition to their bullshit though.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. On another note...
Welcome to America.



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. What Purpose? The graph?
It's showing me.

What the fuck the mainstream American people have running through their poor unfortunate skulls.

That's what.

Now when I get slammed as being Anti-American - which I am not - as I have more in common with people in Seattle and Alaska than I do in Toronto - I am completely mystified as to the the regression of your country. And it HAS regressed since Clinton. And IT DOES threaten the rest of us globally.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #36
56. Indeed it does.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. Weelll...
Considering that their metrics are restricted to those that install their software package, a mere 2 million total, that graphic is more hopelessly skewed than Alexa's, who draw on a larger sample. And the fact that they conflate "blogs" with topic-specific forums like slashdot and mozillazine doesn't speak well for their methodology either.
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yellowdogintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
41. Cuban Missle Crisis, Loss of the Playground of Havana
Rich Cubans in Florida, need to appeal to them as a voting block,

"MY GOD there are COMMUNISTS only 90 MILES from KEY WEST!!"

Fear of socialism in this country

MEDIA HYPE

I am old enough to clearly remember the Cuban Missle Crisis and it clearly was a scary time. We just knew the commies were going to jump right over that 90 miles of water right on to Key West Island, and then the Domino Theory had them in DC by nightfall.
Good diplomatic work by JFK and his crew with Kruschev finally resolved everything but it was a tense time indeed, and that sense of vulnerability has been hyped and promoted ever since by anyone who could figure out a way to link it to whatever they wanted to achieve at the time.

Having said all that, I think it is totally stupid at this point in the game.

Perhaps we should have kept Cuba and it would just be part of Florida now or the Combined Commonwealth of Cuba and Puerto Rico, maybe? LOL good fodder for a revisionist history novel.....hmmmmmmm If we had kept Cuba, Las Vegas might never have happened......PHillip Roth, are you listening?


I digress. I HATE CASTRO BECAUSE I CAN"T GO TO CUBA TO SNORKEL!!!
(without having to go to Mexico, or some other country first). The reefs down there are reportedly quite lovely.

My sister and I have already decided that the second that old gnarly dude kicks the bucket we are making reservations. We want to get down there before it gets Americanized!!

(Except for the part about the snorkeling, this is all just what I have surmised from over 40 years of news reports, newspapers, history lessons, etc. The snorkeling trip desire is TRUE and FACTUAL..I really do want to go there ASAP as soon as it is opened up while it is still cheap.)

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Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
44. Cuban Missile Crisis
Edited on Sat Aug-27-05 10:45 AM by Mizmoon
I wasn't even alive then but it's painted as the closest we've ever come to full scale nuclear war. Many people blame Cuba for the crisis.

The other part is the oppression of the Cuban people. One has to admit that there are few anti-Castro protest in Cuba itself because Castro could do anything to you without any due process of any kind.

Cindy Sheehan does not have to worry about being arrested for voicing her opinion that the Iraq war is a crime and a mistake. She has free speech where many Cubans do not.

America is not perfect by any means, but I would rather live here than in Cuba under Castro's thumb. The Netherlands, for all her respect of human rights, is not perfect either. Last time I was there everyone was grumbing about "those damn North Africans" ... and this was before Theo Van Gogh.

You know what the worst thing about the Netherlands is? What's this business about having to pay to use the bathroom? What if a lady really has to pee and has no money? That's a human rights violation if I ever saw one! :)
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #44
70. You are closer to the truth here, I'm afraid.
Castro should hardly be on anybody's "love list" of finer leaders.

He was ruthless.

He is still a dictator in every sense of the word.

There are a lot worse, of course.

But he is hardly the angel some would believe he is.

Just a bunch of revisionist history going on - by both sides.

He actually wanted to become friends and wished to work with the US in the beginning. It's only after we spurned him big time - and the vested mob interests had a lot to do with it (their losing their gambling assets and lucrative corrupt business ventures) - that he turned to a darker side.

But hey, without this turn of events, Las Vegas would only be a hot hell hole on the way to LA instead of the FABULUOUS resort destination and adult playground it is today!
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
51. americans have been fed kool aid - sugar barons still mad


and the crime bosses. they thought the island belonged to them.

and they liked having Gitmo as a hidey hole
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
53. He doesn't taste good with bar-b-que sauce?
I dunno :shrug:
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
54. I LOVE Castro!
Castro STREET that is.


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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
55. Hate? No, not really.
I don't like Castro personally, for the same reason I don't like dictators of any country. However, on the list of threats to America he is pretty low if non-existent. I'm not anti-socialist (though I think it is important to point out the clear difference between socialism and communism), and in fact support many socialistic policies that are designed to improve the quality of life of citizens of a country. Socialist Democracies, such as Canada are a good example.

Cuba, by any stretch of the imagination, is not a democracy. I personally don't believe the United States, indeed the entire civilized world, should be in the business of propping up dictatorships around the globe. Yes, I realize that the United States has in the past (and will doubtlessly in the future) prop up corrupt and evil people, but that is beside the point. I don't make public policy and if I did here is what I would do.

My first job would be to begin cutting ties with China as I see them as one of the largest passive threats to America and freedom around the world presently. America is about to take a hard dive in the next few years, not long after Bush leaves office, and China is positioning itself to fill the void if we lose our status as sole superpower. China filling that void is rather scary.

While cutting ties with China and trying to untangle the mess we've gotten ourselves into there, I'd begin trying to reform the United Nations. I'd pursue a policies that cut Democratic and Republic countries off from dictatorships. That would include policies that would eliminate our dependence on the Middle East.

Finally, I'd used the reformed United Nations to pursue heavy trade embargo's against dictatorships, effectively strangling their economy and impoverishing their nations. At the same time I would moderately finance groups and factions within the countries who want democracy and encourage internal rebellion against the dictators. If war breaks out and it looks as if democracy is a certain possibility, I would do everything in my efforts to make sure that the dictatorship is overthrown. Then if requested I would send aid to the country to help stabilize it and once stabilized ensure that all trade sanctions and embargo's are lifted and welcome them as members to the United Nations.

Effectively one by one dictatorships would fall around the globe or be economically and therefore politically castrated so that they are not a threat. That would be my overall goal.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
59. Propaganda of course. EOM
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
60. Because he's an even bigger tyrant than Idiot Son?
:shrug:
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. Has Castro killed 100000+ innocent people?
Bush has in less than 4 years.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #60
63. Are you serious?
Edited on Sat Aug-27-05 11:52 AM by K-W
He has a little island. Even if he was as brutal as Bush, which by no means is he. He has very little power.

Bush wages aggressive war. Bush has a string of gulags and torture chambers around the world. Bush subverts democracy domestically at every turn.

The only difference between Cuba and the US is that in the us the people have won more rights from thier government than cuba. Bush isnt given the option of arresting citizens for dissent and throwing them in torture chambes, but do you really doubt that he would if he could?
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
61. castro persona
I certainly don't hate him, but I do think he is a bit on the crazy side, though at least trying to help his people instead of only himself.

I was impressed by a documentary on him, how bold and determined he has been. I thought it would make a good movie, and Liam Neeson is a dead ringer for him, and could carry it off.
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The Night Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
64. So, is Amnesty International's harsh criticism of the Castro regime...
So, is Amnesty International's harsh criticism of the Castro regime the result of brainwashing?

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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
65. the US' relentless persecution of the left is so bad...
It exceeds Nazi Germany.
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
66. Maybe it has something to do with him aiming nuclear warheads at us?
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
68. I sure don't hate him
Hardly ever think of him with all that's going on in the world today.

I'd just say I'm not really partial to this whole President-For-Life system of government.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
69. Ignorance, propaganda, and fear of the unknown.
Perhaps not in that exact order, but still.

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