No More People Than At A Normal Bush Speech?

[ThomWV]

It would seem that Bush is able to bus more people in for a normal whistle-stop speech than turned out to support him in Crawford. I wonder if they were there to support the war and not the President? Do they see any difference? Either way it seems to have been a pathetic turnout in support of the Chimp and his war.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahah!

[tocqueville]

1. the problem is that you guys are not 100 000 out there

fucking denial

[SammyWinstonJack]

2. Huh?

[tocqueville]

3. I mean that the anti-war movement has to be a show of force

if the bushies can bus 4000, why can't the progressives bus 100 times that amount ?

making fun of their 4000, won't change the fact that they outnumber you 4 to 1

and be sure they are going to use it

[tibbiit]

4. first off I bet your numbers are off

second of all, there are 10 million+ people surrounding Crawford, most of who voted for the Chimp. 3-4,000 freepers showing up is very lousy compared to all the the chimp support in the area.
tib

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyWinstonJack]

13. Could you be anymore insulting? Shows what you know about

'most' Texans.

[Stephanie]

5. Those numbers are wrong

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=53720273/K=bush/v=2/SID=w/l=NSER/R=2/SIG=1347d0r2q/EXP=1125264307/*-http%3A//news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050827/pl_nm/iraq_usa_protest_dc_7

Cindy Sheehan, whose son Casey was killed in Iraq last year and has camped outside Bush's ranch seeking a second meeting with him to press for the withdrawal of troops, said her efforts would ultimately lead to the end of the war in Iraq.

"I know that the Camp Casey movement is going to end the war in Iraq," she said after folk singer Joan Baez led supporters in singing "Amazing Grace." Rally organizers estimated the crowd in the sweltering heat was more than 2,000, although it appeared smaller.

***

Across town in Crawford, other parents of soldiers who are serving or have died in Iraq countered Sheehan with their own raucous rally that started with a prayer.

Organizer Howard Kaloogian accused Sheehan of "giving hope and encouragement to our enemies."

The crowd, which organizers said topped 3,000 but appeared closer to 1,500, chanted "Cindy, Go Home" and compared her to Jane Fonda, whose visit to a North Vietnamese gun site in 1972 earned her the nickname "Hanoi Jane."

[tocqueville]

10. it doesn't matter 1:2 or whatever

you won't win anything unless you OUTNUMBER

and that's all the way to the White House 2008

[Stephanie]

14. I guess you weren't in New York for the march last August

When we had had half a million marching past Madison Square Garden and hundreds of demonstrations all around town all week long.

Don't lecture me.

[tocqueville]

16. Crawford is symbolic that's the difference

[Stephanie]

18. New York is symbolic - remember the Twin Towers?

They used to stand here.

[tocqueville]

23. ?????????????????????????????

what I mean is that the focus for change in the US has been this summer in Crawford. It showed for the FIRST time that it was "OK" to oppose the war, this for the broader masses...

that's why the show of force is so important. It cannnot be related to only ONE person, no matter how wonderful she is.

[Stephanie]

27. yes & I am telling you we had HALF A MILLION marching against the war -

and against Bush last summer in New York - we had our show of force - this is something different.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ultraist]

25. Bush's approval rating on how he is handling Iraq: 38%

We DO outnumber them.

[txindy]

12. You're accepting the 4,000 as actual fact?

Good for you. :eyes:

I'll wait for visual verification with some pictures, first. Now, having said that, here's the deal. There have been many thousands more to the Camps Casey over the past several weeks. We weren't the ones who needed to take 3 weeks to show up for all of one day. We've been there for THREE WEEKS. We'll be there when the wingnuts have gone home. And we'll be in DC on the 24th. They'll still be planning a 'rebuttal'.

You might factor that into your calculations while waiting for actual numbers to arrive.

[tocqueville]

17. that was the first figures I got

but it still doesn't matter

it was known that the bushies were to rally today. That's why a big effort should have been made to make them ridiculous

there is no shadow over the people of course having been there for weeks, they made history

but the MSM and the republican machine will picture the thing as at least an equal rapport of force

that's why they have to be outnumbered

[txindy]

19. And how many were at the march in NYC for the RNC?

And how many hundreds of thousands less than that did the MSM report? Even with the evidence on tape right in front of us.

It doesn't matter how many we have. The numbers won't be reported correctly, anyway. If we outnumbered them 10:1, the numbers would be made to look even and, according to the latest reports out of the AP, that's what's being reported: even numbers.

[tocqueville]

24. it would have been very difficult to ignore a 10:1 TODAY

[txindy]

26. Doubt it. We had video and pictures in NYC. We have none today, yet.

So, which is it easier to lie about? Video and pictures SHOWING hundreds of thousands MORE protesters in NYC than reported or no pictures of the numbers of protesters in Crawford? I'm thinking the latter is easier to fudge, myself.

You might want to wait for updates before getting disappointed in something you can't even see. Maybe you should be disappointed, but maybe not. Why not wait a while?

[tocqueville]

29. the momentum is in Crawford right now

and even if it's 1:1, it's still too little

I see it as a strategic question. What happened before was in a different context. Cindy is now planning a tour. The numbers are important.

[txindy]

30. Different context, maybe. Same cause, definitely.

It's all cumulative. That's why the poll numbers for the cabal are dropping. NOT because of Crawford alone.

[tocqueville]

33. I agree with that

more people today had been a tactical victory, because of the focus.

look at that one :

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-08-27-crawford-protests_x.htm

(I have only access to weblinks, no TV live, except a video on Fox very biased but which couldn't show bigger crowds)

[txindy]

35. Yep, that's the AP story showing even numbers

What the story doesn't say is that the MAF protest was organzined by the wingnut PR group that brought us the Swiftboat Liars. Hardly a spontaneous, grassroots group.

Right now, the pictures being shown usually contain images of the freepers in downtown Crawford and images of Cindy juxtaposed with the smaller numbers of her supporters keeping vigil at Camp Casey I (the smaller, original camp). They are NOT showing the thousands at Camp Casey II who arrived by bus. They aren't showing the buses, either. **sigh** Check out the earlier threads for those. Many, many pictures of people arriving at Camp II. http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/images/bus/index.htm http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/images/buses2/index.htm http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/images/tent/index.htm http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/images/mfso/index.htm

Some pro-war pics included: http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/images/prodeath/index.htm

It's very intense today. I think everyone needs time to sort the images and present a cohesive story of facts.

[tocqueville]

38. to avoid the spin below

http://us.cnn.com/2005/US/08/27/crawford.rallies.ap/index.html

Cindy supporters should have been in much bigger numbers

they can lie but only to a certain level...

that was my point

[txindy]

39. I understand

But my point is that they could've had many times more Cindy supporters there and the news would reflect the exact same numbers they are reporting right now. They want to show a 50-50 split where there is none, so they'll invent one. There's no stopping the spin, I don't care how many more people showed up at Camp Casey.

Yes, they can lie, but there is no limit on the level. None. Sorry, but it's true.

[nofurylike]

42. exactly. that's the real point, imho. eom

[nofurylike]

41. march for women's lives 1.5 million. reported as "thousands."

they can, will, and DO LIE to any level suits their propaganda job.

this was not to convince the lying msm. we KNOW who owns them.


this amazing Truth movement just keeps growing.
that is what matters.

what is your problem?

[Scout1071]

34. They do a good enough job of making themselves look ridiculous

We really don't have to do much at all.

Secondly, your numbers are off. Way off. The AP reported 1,000 Bushbots and 2,000+ Cindy supporters, other mothers of the fallen, Iraq vets, etc.

Finally, I think it's interesting that you keep referring to us as "you guys."

[SoCalDem]

400 is closer

:)

[merh]

6. Why aren't you out there?

The "you guys" statement just seems odd.

:shrug:

[tocqueville]

7. I live in Europe

[Conservativesux]

Lucky you !!

[Conservativesux]

9. self delete

[merh]

15. Then your reply makes sense.

:hi:

[pretzel4gore]

28. that's why the focus should be the pigmedia!

how many chicagoans, or atlantans, or new yorkers, or los angelonolians could be aroused to protest these city's fox'news' liars' treason and criminality? bush's crawford is too far away (and busheviks control the approaches; you can be sure stories start about cindy supporters being turned away will soon be common)
it's the pigmedia which is bush's ace in the hole....and it's the pigmedia which is a constant in the bush banana peel we stepped on in 2000 (on eve of 2k belection, most americans still thought geeb jr was geeb senior!)
that was because the pigmedia has sponsored geeb jr; it has always hated any true representative of popular will...
LET'S GET THEM!

[tocqueville]

31. I agree completely

it must be a national movement

that's how the "regime changes" were done in Ukraine and other countries by peaceful means

the force is in organisation and numbers + some charismatic leaders

[Soup Bean]

45. Well, there is no draft this time out.

Most people don't get upset until it hits them at home. I think Bush's falling numbers have more to do with gas prices rising than anything else, sadly.

[DanCa]

11. Do you think that some were paid?

Legimate question.

[Lerkfish]

20. I"d be willing to bet they are either paid or rewarded

not that it matters.
They could amass 150,000, and it wouldn't make the cause "noble".

[DanCa]

21. Hey lerkfish my friend how are you my brother.

Haven't seen you around the last two days. was worried :hug:

[Lerkfish]

22. hey, I'm fine, thanks.

I was mainly in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2037110

:hug:

[Lithos]

32. Consider this piece of trivia

We are talking the heart of Texas here, a state with a very large number of Republicans. Crawford is also about 1 hour drive from Ft. Hood, one of the largest Army bases in the US.

And all they can get is (maybe) 3,000 people to show up after a massive blitz? Most of those coming to Camp Casey in support are mostly Texas activists who are many weeks into their rotation and yet number as much if not more?

That is the real story. This is the heart of Bush country, yet he is performing so weakly.

L-

[SammyWinstonJack]

36. Makes ya wonder if bush really won Texas? If he did, looks like his

support might be dwindling

[Lithos]

37. He won the state

I don't doubt that, but I think there has been a strong erosion of his support since then.

L-

[txindy]

40. I think he may have won the state, but the numbers were padded

Those padded numbers were then used to support the 'mandate' he claimed. They felt that Texas was a safe place to pad election totals. Not so, not anymore. :applause:

[SoCalDem]

46. yes.. 31 states 'won' x 110K 'extra' = 3.41 million mandate 'votes'

safe states could have had more than 110k, and "close" states made up the difference..a little here..a little there:(

phone mandate...phony president.. phony cowbay.. phony everything

[SammyWinstonJack]

47. Oh I agree with you!

I know he took my county, Bexar, big time, but in 2000 we voted with paper and pen, in '04 it was electronic voting machines! Why the switch in a safe state? :shrug:

[SoCalDem]

43. sorry dupe

;

[SoCalDem]

44. SAME 'busloads of people".. wandering aimlessly around the US

showing up wherever their "little coward from Crawford" wants them..