The buses should have gone to the airport--not the Superdome.

[strategery blunder]

It is after I have read so many accounts of people wanting to leave New Orleans, but unable to afford to, that I write this.

Nearly four years ago, the federal government grounded all air traffic in this country.

Had anyone with any sort of power or influence outside of Louisiana been paying attention, the FAA could have diverted more airline capacity to New Orleans.

Consider that a round trip from New Orleans to Chicago and back, including turning around the aircraft, will take approximately six hours. Had ONE commercial aircraft that started the day in O'Hare been diverted from plying its normal routes today, it could have made four trips in the last twenty-four hours.

A 737 holds approximately 130 people in a typical two-class configuration. Had one extra 737 been plying New Orleans-Chicago, it could have evacuated 520 additional people today.

Had this one plane been a 757, holding approximately 180 people, 920 more people could have been evacuated. One one plane, four flights.

Mind you, these planes wouldn't HAVE to evacuate all the way to Chicago. St. Louis, Memphis, Atlanta, etc. are all shorter flights, and that same hypothetical single aircraft could have made more trips on these shorter flights.

I won't go into wide-body aircraft, because I am unsure of MSY's capabilities of handling multiple wide-bodied aircraft at the same time (i.e. few gates that can handle large aircraft). However, had the FAA stepped in to divert aircraft for evacuations, I believe that thousands of people without the means to leave the city could have been evacuated anyways.

Add to this the capacity that any local military installations might have had to handle air traffic.

Maybe not everyone could have been evacuated, but more could have been done. The people trapped inside the Superdome would have been far better off on busses to the airport, bound for evacuation flights ordered by the government, be they on military aircraft or commandeered commercial aircraft.

Such use of aircraft and airspace is not unprecedented.

We did a reverse version of this overseas during the Cold War, airlifting supplies to trapped Berliners when the Soviets shut down all entry and exit points.

More recently, we closed off our airspace on 9/11.

The federal government could have done so much more to prevent as much loss of life as possible, even with half of the National Guard deployed to Iraq. Yet its chief executive remains silent.:cry:

[Bluebear]

1. Indeed they could have made hops to Houston

Perhaps to several cities west of Louisiana where decent shelters exist.

[donheld]

2. It would take 25 Boeing 747s

to ferry 10,000 people out of NOLA. Not that impossible.

[Bluebear]

4. If this were River Oaks, Dana Point, Alpharetta....

I wonder if Bush would have suddenly done something. Anything.

[donheld]

11. NO

he'd have sat staring into space, trying to figure out what "My Pet Goat" was about.

[Bluebear]

5. Air Force One comes to mind.

We own it.

[B Calm]

17. I thought the same thing, We have a lot of military jets that

could of been used (if Bush was on top of things)... Instead we have a Vacationing Wartime President, who is not a team player and has a I don't care attitude!

[strategery blunder]

6. That is assuming they only made one flight out of NOLA each.

The scenario I had envisioned meant assigning some aircraft to evacuate New Orleans full-time, i.e. several flights out in a 24-hour period.

That said, I don't know if MSY is capable of boarding 25 aircraft that large all at once. As far as I know, that airport does not have sufficient infrastructure...hell, O'Hare only has so many gates that can handle aircraft that large. But military bases might have been able to handle more of the really big planes.

(Edit: MSY could, however, board 25 757's or possibly 767's all at once; that's about 5,000 people leaving about every hour. They could probably find a few of those drive-up staircases to board 25 planes above and beyond the normal schedule.)

[Bluebear]

8. P.S. I am certain every airline ferried aircraft out of town

Many were probably empty. Just saying. I don't think these people cared where the plane ended up as long as it was safe and dry with some support mechanism available on the other side.

[donheld]

12. Your damn right

See there's no mercy for the poor. :grr:

[Horse with no Name]

3. Or they could have driven those dozens of SUV's

that the taxpayers are paying for from Crawford and taken a couple hundred people out of there.
It's a start.

[ConcernedCanuk]

7. An old cememtary was demolished to construct the superdome

.
.
.

I'm not superstitious,

But jus the same . . .

I think I'd be "hiding' anywhere BUT the Superdome . . .


"The Louisiana Superdome, often informally referred to simply as the Superdome, is a large, multi-purpose sports and exhibition facility located in the Central Business District of New Orleans, Louisiana. The Superdome is the home of the NFL's New Orleans Saints and was once the home of the New Orleans Jazz (now Utah Jazz) NBA franchise.
Picture of the Louisiana Superdome

Construction started on the Louisiana Superdome on August 11, 1971 and was finished in November 1975. An old cemetery was demolished to make space for it; some superstitious locals attribute the poor record of the New Orleans Saints to bad luck produced by disturbing the tombs . . ."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdome

Makes one wonder . . .

[Spinzonner]

9. I suspect that you're oversimplifying the issues

Such as air traffic control, crew requirements, flight plans, costs, liability risks, ground support, logistics, who would get to fly and who wouldn't (since only a fraction could avail themselves of this), where to house them at the destination, etc. etc.

It's a noble-sounding idea but a drop in the bucket in terms of the problem and very expensive one at that.

[Bluebear]

10. How much does Air Force One cost an hour?

To fly Bush hither and thither? Expense be damned, it's American lives at stake. I agree that the logistics would be daunting, but i agree that Presidential leadership was missing on this one.

[Spinzonner]

14. Massive unplanned - or poorly planned - programs

frequently cause as many problems as they solve and this one would incur high risks and costs because of the use of aircraft.

Granted that New Orleans should have had better evacuation plans given that the combination of the vulnerability and the inevitability of a bnig hurricane eventually combined to presage a disaster.

However, the real need is to get people out of the zone of great danger - namely the city which is below sea level - and to areas where the risks could be managed and mitigated. They didn't need airplanes - and the distances they could cover - to accomplish that.

[strategery blunder]

13. I realize that this doesn't come out of nowhere.

I fully recognize that flights would have to be cancelled and diverted from other cities to accomplish this. I'm not stupid; I've spent just about my entire life in the airline industry.

And yes, it would be expensive as hell. And as far as "where to house them at the destination," I'm sure the Red Cross could set up evacuee shelters in other cities, because they sure as hell seem to find ways to do it for other natural disasters. Even if there were no shelters available at the destination, I'd rather be homeless in Houston or Atlanta than be in the Superdome right now.

Nor was I proposing to evacuate the ENTIRE population this way, only the population that had no other means of getting out, i.e. the 70,000 or so in the Superdome with no car and nowhere else to go.

[jfern]

15. How about 747 or 777s?

We're talking around 400-500 people. They could have probably evacuated 2000 people per plane.

[strategery blunder]

16. Lack of gate capacity

MSY is not exactly the biggest airport in the nation. It would have few gates capable of accomodating such large aircraft, and the gates would probably be too close together to accomodate 777s/747s at adjacent gates. (Not saying I've ever been to the airport, I'm simply speaking from my experience with mid-market airports in general.)

[Sgent]

18. MSY

actually has extensive 747 capable gates -- its the runways that are the real problem (not enough of them).

MSY is still a gateway city to S. America, with most S. American countries having consulates, and extensive travel to/from MSY. Although domestic carriers don't send wide bodies as a general rule, many of the foriegn carriers do.

As for evacuation... You have Columbus AF in Mid-Mississippi that is capable of handling it. Its the training center for the AF, with 3 jet capable runways. It also has crew experienced with quick turn around and feul. It also has hangers (empty do to iraq) capable of putting thousands of ppl in. Not to mention MEM, BHM, DFW, and Houston.

[strategery blunder]

22. Looks like I misunderestimated

I did admit that I've never been to MSY before, right? I guess it ain't your typical mid-market airport.

Although I probably should have written that last sentence in the past tense--it might not really exist anymore.

[strategery blunder]

23. Dupe post

I tried posting this multiple times because each time I tried, I got an error message. Apparently one got through anyway.:shrug:

[BlueCollar]

19. which bankrupt airline

do you propose do this?

[Sgent]

20. United State Air Force

They have (in law) the ability to mobilize any US Registered airplane.

They do have to reimburse costs, but that's who I would suggest.

[BlueCollar]

21. works for me..eom