How are stranded POOR people supposed to EAT if they don't fucking LOOT

[Proud2BAmurkin]

Fuck CNN

[ohio_liberal]

1. Good question

They should be opening up grocery stores to the public. Perishables will be rotted, cans will be rusting in a few days. Just fucking give it away and let your fucking business insurance pay for it later.

[Fescue4u]

15. Insurance won't pay

if you give it away.

Im not disputing that its the right thing to do, but don't think for a second that the insurance carrier will refuse to pay saying "sorry, giving away food for free isnt covered under your policy"

[ohio_liberal]

20. Throw it all in a floating dumpster

in front of the store then. Poof, it becomes damaged merchandise that had to be thrown away anyway.

[Cleita]

21. So isn't that a better reason for letting them loot?

All the perishable goods will be thrown out anyway. Just look the other way and let the people take it. I wouldn't doubt that this is happening anyway.

[ohio_liberal]

25. Open the doors and leave

Let people take what they need without having to lie to your insurance company. Works for me.

[Fescue4u]

29. Thats what I would do

were I the manager of one of these stores.

[Fescue4u]

27. I didnt say it was.

But Im telling you that if a business gives away their inventory, they won't get reimbursed. If it gets stolen or destroyed, they do.

So tell me, given the choice of getting paid or not, what do you think the average corporation is going to choose?

[Cleita]

57. Hey, don't argue with me. I'm with you.

It's the moralists here who believe that in desparate times the rules don't change. They do and that doesn't make criminals out of those who are trying to survive.

[Fescue4u]

97. Cool..

I thought you were aruguing with me :)

peace.

[Redstone]

69. So how's the insurance company going to know that

the owner was ABLE to stop the people from coming in and taking some chow?

I'm sure if he or she tells the people "if anyone asks, I told you not to take it," they will do so.

Redstone

[Skidmore]

70. Can't they get a tax write-off if they donate their inventory?

[Fescue4u]

98. Possibily, but I doubt it

generally they have to donate it to some sort of established charity.

While throngs of starving people SHOULD be considered as such, its proably not in the IRS eyes.

[TahitiNut]

2. Well, they're supposed to show up at their minimum wage job, of course.

:eyes:

[bpilgrim]

91. "Looters will be treated RUTHLESSLY" - Gov of MS, Barbour - AGREE?

listen to this short MP3...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/katrina/looting_will_be_treated_ruthlessly.mp3

take the poll here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4504058


peace

[Fescue4u]

99. It depends on what they are looting for

If I were a cop, I'd turn the other eye on looters getting food and diapers for their kids.

But Id come down hard on people stealing TV's and other non essential luxurys.

[Dora]

3. Exactly.

Their homes are flooded and their own food stores have been destroyed. It is only LOGICAL that the victims of Katrina would seek food from grocers and markets - stores are more likely to have food that survived the flood.

Taking food under these circumstances should not be called looting. Taking jewelry, appliances, etc., is looting. But the fulfillment of a basic human need is simply called survival.

[Clark2008]

11. Amen.

And, of all the so-called "looting" pictures I've seen, it was people going to get FOOD, not TVs and stereos and jewelry.

[fleabert]

4. fucking nominated! why don't people get this?

not just poor people either! if the stores are closed indefinitely, how is anyone supposed to get food if their fridge and pantry are under twenty feet of water?

:wtf: is wrong with people? MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY!

[kick-ass-bob]

5. exactly.

like all that food is going to survive anyways.

Fuck MSM.

:grr:

[htuttle]

6. They can eat cake!

[Fenris]

7. Yeah, I hardly see how this is a negative thing.

Are they supposed to starve?

[Booster]

8. Also, none of us know what we would do if faced with the same

situation. I would probably loot just for the fact that you know all of the stuff being looted, especially foodstuff, would be thrown out anyway and the stores more than likely have insurance. I will not judge the looters because I just might be one of them under the same circumstances.

[Sequoia]

9. Yesterday a lot of people here posted "stealing is wrong"

Let's hope they are never in the position these survivors are in. I bitched today coming in to work because of bad traffic, but I had coffe and cold water. I have nothing to complain about compared to what they are going through. The stores should just open their doors and let the people in before the food spoils. They have no money, banks are closed, babies need food. We send help to others but close the door on our own.

[ohio_liberal]

14. Well the people who are looting pawnshops for guns, ....

now that I have a problem with. But not the man who is stealing fucking Pampers for his baby.

[greyl]

32. A culture that keeps food under lock and key is 'wrong'.

And I mean all the time, not just after a disaster.

Looters are breaking the sacred trust of the 100 people who labor to get a head of lettuce to the market. /sarc

[PittLib]

64. Have you read "Ishmael" ...

by Daniel Quinn? That phrase struck me.

[greyl]

100. :) Yes, I have.

+ The Story of B and My Ishmael.
Beyond Civilization is in the mail.

Great stuff, yes?

[PittLib]

101. oh - yes. I just began my refresher (3rd one since my first read in '97).

I've read all 3 ... wasn't aware of the 4th book. I'll have to check it out - thanks!

[greyl]

102. There's more than 4 :)

http://www.ishmael.org

The Q & A section is particularly interesting.

[PittLib]

105. I read the 3 you mentioned ...

and accidently lumped The Story of B in with the Ishmael series. So I erroneously assumed there was a tie-in to the next book. Thanks for the link!

[greyl]

106. Ishmael is referred to in B, isn't he? nt

[PittLib]

122. you may be right ...

I guess I might have to reread that, too! :blush:

Like I said - it's been a while! Luckily I held on to those 2 ... unlike my hardbound version of My Ishmael which has vanished. I loved them so much I had to share, and didn't always get them back.

[Zhade]

125. "A culture that keeps food under lock and key is 'wrong'."

Very well-said.

[tk2kewl]

65. during the blackout in NYC a couple of years ago...

merchants were giving away stuff that would otherwise spoil

[ret5hd]

10. Paging Inspector Javert!!!... Paging Inspector Javert!!!..

We have another sympathizer of Jean Valjean here at DU!

[rateyes]

82. Really! Les Mis....

what a great story. Too bad most people don't get it.

[VOX]

104. Perfect, ret5hd! Has anyone bagged the candlesticks yet? n/t

[madeline_con]

12. Can they eat TVs and jewlery?

Some of the looting is not just for survival...

[fleabert]

18. can you post a link with proof that theft of retail or personal belongings

is actually happening, and not just theorized?

[madeline_con]

33. Oh, we need a link to prove the inevitable.

We could just get real instead.

You know not all the looting is because of need. Some just take advantage...

[fleabert]

114. I say the majority is need, and that's all that matters.

all of the CRAP people are taking wouldn't be sold anyway, it would be written off and tossed in the garbage.

I acknowledge that since I posted this question, people have been seen taking things and not just necessities. cops even! :-) I'm not saying it's right, but I understand.

and ps- I don't appreciate the condescending tone of 'get real'.

[progressivebydesign]

41. It was reported last night... and I will find it. It was not just food.

It is NEVER about just food, and you all know it. Stop being so rude to people that know the truth about looting. Looting is opportunism and is a crime. There are aid organizations and the Guard down there to help people.. stealing is bullshit.

[madeline_con]

47. Thank you for stating what should be obvious...

to intelligent people.

After Frances, evry guy in town had two tarps under each arm, and some were arrested later for selling them in their little stores in the hoods.

Fact. Nothing racist about it. I know, because I live in the same hood.

[fleabert]

115. I wasn't rude at all. i stated a simple request for a link.

Everything I had read up to that point had only pictures of people taking diapers and food & water. The statements about non food items were just that, unsubstantiated statements. I wanted to see a link for myself, what's wrong with that?

get over it.

cops are taking part in the grab. I don't think any of us can even begin to judge or say what we would do in the same situation.

[shavedape]

48. yes, here is a link describing looting of jewelry and clothing stores

"Around the corner on Canal Street, the main thoroughfare in the central business district, people sloshed headlong through hip-deep water as looters ripped open the steel gates on the front of several clothing and jewelry stores.

One man, who had about 10 pairs of jeans draped over his left arm, was asked if he was salvaging things from his store.

"No," the man shouted, "that's EVERYBODY'S store."

Looters filled industrial-sized garbage cans with clothing and jewelry and floated them down the street on bits of plywood and insulation as National Guard lumbered by. "

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-katrina-looting,0,7691279.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

[fleabert]

116. thanks for the link

the rest of the story has a very telling quote, that I am wondering why you didn't post it as well...

snip
"Mike Franklin stood on the trolley tracks and watched the spectacle unfold.

"To be honest with you, people who are oppressed all their lives, man, it's an opportunity to get back at society," he said.

A man walked down Canal Street with a pallet of food on his head. His wife, who refused to give her name, insisted they weren't stealing from the nearby Winn-Dixie supermarket. "It's about survival right now," she said as she held a plastic bag full of purloined items. "We got to feed our children. I've got eight grandchildren to feed."

let them take whatever they want.

[Kipepeo]

126. I don't understand why this has become such a big fight on DU

I *do* understand looting and don't have any scolding to do on that count - especially when it's food and diapers, etc.

Rich ass people loot too, and on a grander scale, but it's called white collar crime - somehow an isolated looting wave during a fucking natural disaster is getting more play than corporate crime ever does? what??

[friesianrider]

127. I saw on TV video of someone stealing a closet organizer from Wal-Fart

...while wading through 2 feet of water. Kinda strange, but SOME people are stealing retail merchandise and not food, but I suspect most of those stealing are getting food or necessities (at least I hope). I saw more people on video making off with toilet paper, bread, and drinks though.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madeline_con]

37. Name calling is not nice, so I'll refrain.

Assuming everything stolen is to feed the poor is pretty naive, dontcha think?

Put me on ignore so you can keep your world all rosy and altruistic.

[progressivebydesign]

42. I'm with you on this Madeline... we'll ignore the insults. n/t

[Tyranny_R_US]

43. Seeing dark skinned people take food must really piss you off....

anyway putting people like you on ignore only benefits you so thats not going to happen.

[madeline_con]

45. It's not about anyone's skin...

assuming it's all food and no one's taking advantage is naive.

As they say on Jerry Springer: "You don't know me!"

[liberalitch]

117. For all they know you are black....

Low lifes who steal PERSONAL PROPERTY.... NOT FOOD, WATER, MEDICAL SUPPLIES come in both colors....

[Bridget Burke]

54. How does putting people on ignore benefit them?

Please enlighten me.

[shavedape]

61. fewer annoying smudges on their rose colored glasses when all think alike

and they might be able to save a few bucks on their 'soma' bills

[Ron Mexico]

78. Do the same with me. I couldn't be more disgusted.

This "bad times justify crime" mentality is making me sick. If looters are really only stealing food, shouldn't you be sending them Swiss Army Knives and lockpicking kits?

I was homeless for seven months in 2001. Would I have been justified in breaking in to any of your houses just because I was hungry? Would it have been okay if I stole some of your "excess" stuff that in my view you didn't need? What the hell, insurance will pay you for it!

If I see someone stealing food, I might look the other way, but not televisions, Palm Pilots, etc. And so many here act as if the only motivation for looting down there is survival. Sorry, not buying it. If you're one of those, as you put Madeline on ignore, put me on it too.

[SammyWinstonJack]

13. Rich comfortable news anchors don't worry about such things.

Let them eat dead floating fish! :sarcasm:

[qanda]

16. They should leave an IOU

:eyes:

Some ignorant people will never get it!

[Sparkman]

74. When the food spoils, soaked for days, value is ZERO. DONATE the stuff.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. With no electricity, the perishables will be rotten in a day or two

Might as well let someone eat the food that has not already been destroyed.

If I owned a supermarket chain down there, I would invite people to go in and take what they could safely eat and drink. The bottled water, juice, and soft drinks alone could save people's lives in the hot weather.

[northzax]

62. and that would be a good thing to do

but you are not obligated to give away your property. it belongs to you, if you want to give it away, great. but you have no legal obligation to do so.

[mvd]

103. As usual, a great post, Lydia!

:thumbsup:

[CottonBear]

19. This is what is really happening there in NO and surrounding areas:

This is a good video of the mayor of NO.....20 mins long
but with some footage of the destruction and flooding. He mentions the bodies floating, and how a temp morgue will have to be set up when they start retrieveing the bodies. Right now, rescue is #1.

http://www.wwltv.com/perl/common/video/wmPlayer.pl?titl...

<from the WRH lead-in>
Apparently, there are now THREE breaks in the levee.
Mayor's comments (transcribed):

"We have 80 percent of our city underwater. In some parts of the city, the water is as deep as twenty feet.

"We have people still trapped on their roofs.

"We have an incredible amount of water in the city. Both airports are underwater."

"The twin spans in New Orleans East are destroyed. They're gone.

"We have three huge boats that have run aground. We have an oil tanker that is also run aground. And leaking oil.

"We have a serious levee break at 17th Canal. It's causing waters to continue to rise in certain sections of the city.

"We have houses that have literally been picked up off of their foundations and moved.

"The yacht club on the lake has burned and is destroyed.

"I must tell people who are driving around that if you drive on the highrise, we're not sure about the structural soundness of the high-rise, because it appears that a barge has hit one of the main structures of the high-rise.

"This is a briefing that I got from FEMA.

"All of Slidell is under water.

"We have gas leaks that have sprout out, and even when they are under water, you will see a flame shooting out of the water. It's not a pretty picture."

[Cleita]

24. I sounds terrible.

:cry:

I can't watch video on dia up so thanks for the summary.

[Withywindle]

26. How evil do you have to be to worry about $$ at a time like this?

Of course there are no "authorities" to stop the "looting" because the "authorities" are out there trying to SAVE PEOPLE. I would hope, anyway.


I'm just boggled. Utterly boggled. Overwhelmed by the triviality and prissy moralizing of some people when there are more lives at stake than I can wrap my brain around.

[txaslftist]

22. Crawfish and alligators. Lotsa protein!

[stillcool]

23. This is the worst display of the...

..American mentality I have ever seen. In such a wide-spread total malfunction of government services...people on DU...ugh...honor the almighty dollar more than human life. If support for Cindy Sheehan restored my faith in humanity...this disaster has ripped it away.

[mongo]

73. So not approving of looting is "honoring" the almighty dollar?

Yeah, If you need food or diapers and whatever, and there are no other ways to get it - then I do not have a problem.

But the reality is that is only a small portion of what is happening. Opportunistic people are taking advantage of the situation.

But if I own a small hardware or clothing or jewelry store, I must be "rich" so that makes it alright - right?

Sounds like the same crap that shoplifters use to justify their actions.

There is relief coming into the area. People with 5 giant packs of diapers under their arms are not looting to save their baby - or to make a flotation device.

[stillcool]

80. You're pitching a bitch over....

5 giant packs of diapers? Yeah, that's honoring the almightly dollar over all else, I'd say.

[mongo]

85. The only people honoring the almighty dollar are the looters

Why are they looting to try to meet their needs, or in most cases, more than their needs instead of getting out and GETTING HELP?

Perhaps it is because they would rather loot some supplies to have, and maybe some more to sell, so they can go home to protect their own house from being looted.

That is sooo noble.

[stillcool]

89. he-he-he...getting out and getting help?...

oh, now that's priceless.

[donheld]

28. I say take it

Who on earth wouldn't take it if they really need it.

[dejaboutique]

30. let them loot

those grocery stores should have been confiscated by the city to feed people anyway, some of it is going to spoil anyway. LET THEM LOOT my god!

[porphyrian]

31. The Prison Industrial Complex

Enter the second most profitiable sociopathic enterprise to the weapons industry, and the first employ a "war" on an abstract rather than a specific enemy - the Prison Industrial Complex. Feed the poor and often brown-skinned into the hopper and out comes money for the ruling minority, at the low, low cost of lives that they weren't really concerned with in the first place. Actually, the two industries are intertwined in a morbid dance of life for profit, but your post speaks directly to this head of the hydra and its corporate herald and apologist.

[Solly Mack]

34. I'm one of those bleeding heart Liberals and damn proud to be one

I would be sifting through the wreckage to aid my survival as well. I'd also be gathering for others.

[ninkasi]

60. Absolutely!

In a huge disaster like this, I would not be concerned at all about people looting t.v.s...the vast majority are trying to get food and water. As a mother and grandmother, you'd better believe I'd be looting for food for my family, and anybody else who needed it.

Has it come to this in our country, that we are willing to condone shooting people who are trying to survive? When material possessions become so much more important than human beings, I wonder if this is a country worth fighting and dying for.

[Sparkman]

77. LOOT for survival....not a problem. Stealing to feed children's no crime.

AND you can't carry on raising kids and living if you don't have STUFF.
So count me a looter supporter, put me on the jury, INNOCENT your honor!!

[donsu]

35. agree

nt

[progressivebydesign]

38. Umm.. you can't eat DVD players. n/t

[SoCalDem]

40. probably can't PLAY a water-logged DVD player..

:)

[progressivebydesign]

44. Ah.. but they were looting things besides food.

Unfortunately sometimes disasters are a free-for all, and feeding the kids is the last thing they think of.

So.. you think the liquor and cigarettes are still on those shelves, as well?

[bpilgrim]

50. "and feeding the kids is the last thing they think of" - clueless

http://media.globalfreepress.com

and u ain't show about showing it off, either, r u?

peace

[Chico Man]

71. Luckily it's the first thing the Red Cross thinks of

And luckily they are on the scene. And fortunately, you can help the effort by clicking the link at the top of the screen!

[bpilgrim]

76. "they are on the scene" - this ongoing DISASTER is spread across multiple

STATES, and even the search and rescue people can't get to many places, hello...

peace

[Chico Man]

84. Even more reason to donate!

Doesn't make looting eny less risky! I hope people stay calm and civil.

I hope people heeded the warnings and went to an appropriate shelter! If not.. they said this multiple times throughout the day on Sunday... you are on your own for a while. I don't see that as a free ticket to cause further destruction and create a lawless environment by looting.

[SoCalDem]

51. p-tooooey..wet ciggies

the booze might be just what the doctor ordered though :evilgrin:

[madeline_con]

52. Hear hear!

[txaslftist]

56. Ya think the merchants can resell the cigarettes and liquor?

Here's a bottle of Jack left over from the flood. It was on the shelves when the Pontchetrain flowed in here, thick with human excrement, corpses, dead animals and rife with every disease imaginable. Enjoy!

Oh, and here's some discount Marlboros. Nevermind the rotting corpse aftertaste, they're 30% off!

Have a Blessed Day!

[Chico Man]

72. Who cares about the products

It is the environment I care about.. lawlessness could easily get out of control. We saw what happened after the tsunami.. rapes, and kidnappings. Looting only adds to the confusion and makes it more difficult for agencies such as the American Red cross to do their job...

Once civility is lost, I fear all hell will break loose..

[Pacifist Patriot]

90. I see your point, but....

as someone who has been in hurricane relief areas as both a volunteer and a victim there is a middle ground. I think there is a difference between taking off with jeans draped over your arm and feeding your children. You can't exactly use the bottled water and canned goods you bought to prepare for the hurricane when your house is under twenty feet of water. Emergency services could take days to get to some people. They have to survive in some way.

Fortunately I was never in a situation this dire, but as a typically law abiding citizen with the same fears as you, I have no doubt I would not hesitate to raid a store if it meant the difference between my family starving or making do until help arrives.

[txaslftist]

49. Did ya SEE someone stealing a DVD player?

I mean get friggin' realistic!

These folks houses are under six feet of standing water!

Where the hell are they gonna put a DVD player?
Or a plasma TV?

They have no electricity, no running water, no services, no open grocery stores, no open liquor stores, no diddly no dick no squat no nada!

You think they're gonna steal all this shit and run off in a taxi? There ain't no taxis!

You think they got insurance? You think they got allstate gonna come down there and tell them they're in good hands?

It is going to be days before some of them get help. They are drowning, catching dysentary, and some are DYING.

Their lives have been completely destroyed and you want to talk about a damn DVD player. Shame on you.

[bpilgrim]

55. NO they are regurgitating the babbling they see on the teeVee

like many know-nothing pop'n jays are proud to do :eyes:

peace

[AtomicKitten]

39. Many were stealing diapers and food.

It's really heartbreaking.

[bpilgrim]

46. and where are they gonna store all their teeVees and VCRs in the floods

let alone plug them in :shrug:

some authorities - and posters - need to get their priorities in the correct order :argh:

"Security goes hand and hand with SEARCH & RESCUE" - BS
http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/katrina/looting_will_be_treated_ruthlessly.mp3

peace

[matcom]

53. THE FOOD IS GOING TO ROT ANYWAY

god's sakes let SOMEONE eat it! :eyes:

how long is that food good for with no refridgeration, a/c, etc...?

another DAY or TWO?

[txaslftist]

63. Even the canned and boxed stuff can't be resold.

Regulations, you know. Once the levy broke and all that polluted water came into the stores all the food is a loss.

[underpants]

67. These "looters" ;-) should have thought of this before

and gotten better paying jobs or making money really WORKING to earn that money (no drugs) like those ;-) who are well off ;-) did to get everything they have earned. In fact some of these looters ;-) probably should have thought more or read their bible before they had kids that they couldn't support ;-) when a storm like this came along. See some people ;-) worked hard to and saved and lived a good ;-) life to get what they got. I am sure Fox or CNN would be talking to some of them on the phone if they weren't waiting to contact FEMA and get their free stuff from the gubment.

__________________________

;-)

[LaurenG]

81. Nice to see a familiar face er smiley behind out here

I agree, there should be no problem feeding people. If I owned the store I would only hope that people would take what they needed rather than do without. It's a CRISES let them have what they can take. There is no power, please take it. If you want to pay back, come help clean up the mess when the time comes. Seems stupid to even be a question of right or wrong at this time.:spank:

[rman]

58. That's what i was trying to say.

but hadn't yet come around to.

[Bridget Burke]

59. They aren't just stealing food.

Around the corner on Canal Street, the main thoroughfare in the central business district, people sloshed headlong through hip-deep water as looters ripped open the steel gates on the front of several clothing and jewelry stores.

One man, who had about 10 pairs of jeans draped over his left arm, was asked if he was salvaging things from his store.

"No," the man shouted, "that's EVERYBODY'S store."

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/30/AR2005083000848.html

Looting happens.

[vickitulsa]

87. Well, to regurg what I saw on TV...

There was a report of a pawn shop broken into by looters and a whole RAFT of guns and other weapons were stolen... hmmm... needed for protection during crisis? Or gangsters getting organized....

Who really KNOWS?

IMO, all it takes is one good look at the devastation across miles and miles today to figure that there will be serious breakdowns in "law and order" ... and just about everything else...

Getting worse before it gets better?

[Chico Man]

66. AMERICAN RED CROSS (link at top of screen)

If you want to help, there is a link at the top of the screen.

Instead of bitching about Bush or the corporate machine, lets help them do their job.. which is to provide the aid you are talking about.

The Red Cross is mobilizing on all fronts to bring relief to storm victims. More than two hundred Red Cross shelters are housing thousands of residents who fled Katrina’s wrath. All available resources from across the country, including thousands of staff and volunteers are being moved to safe areas, so additional relief efforts can begin immediately after the storm passes. More than 200 emergency response vehicles (ERVs) and countless other Red Cross resources are en route or on the scene to provide hot meals, snacks, bottled water and distribute other much-needed relief supplies. In coordination with the Southern Baptists, preparations have been made to provide more than 500,000 hot meals to storm-weary residents each day.

[northzax]

68. or rich people, what does this have to do with poverty?

if the stores are closed, then they're closed. Bill Gates could be out there stealing, since you can't eat money.

by the way, the very definition of 'looting' is to pillage or take something as spoils. The word itself, as you use it, implies the taking of something for personal profit. Taking food to survive is NOT looting, by very definition.

[Ms. Clio]

75. Clearly you have failed to understand the dreaded "snowball effect"

Petty theft of food items leads inevitably to rapine, murder, and anarchy.

[Bassic]

79. The correct freeper answer would be someting like

"If they are poor it is because God don't like 'em so fuck 'em"

Or something along those lines.

[PittLib]

83. Its called desperation.

I am not wearing rose colored glasses. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, that they are decent and good ... even though deep down I no longer believe that is innate but must be achieved through constant battle against our own nature. There are good people and there are shitty people and most of us are in between. There are no absolutes, especially in a situation like this. Stealing (non-food or necessity items) is not right, but seriously ... who gives a shit when your life has just been devastated? What else is going to get these people through ... insurance? Ha. And with no way to communicate, how in hell are they supposed to locate the "aid"? Just something to consider. This does not condone "criminal" behavior, and some people are opportunists and some are simply trying to survive ... but how do any of us know what we would do? And who the hell are we to sit at our computers and moralize? I am so sick of the judgment and lack of perspective. We do not have to completely defend or condemn everything that comes across this board, as though we are privy to the "truth" of the matter. It's okay to just take it in, and if able, give to those who can help. We don't know everything. We don't need to justify everything. I always thought Democrats were better able to avoid blanket statements and absolutes, and respect the complexity and inconsistency of humanity/society/life .

[lala_rawraw]

86. Well as long as Bush has a nice lunch for his Photo-Op

Then the goodly Christians on the right will still worship him... what is that little saying about the "golden calf"? Let's change it to the Golden Arse.

[earth mom]

88. Exactly!

Cnn must make sure that these people are portrayed as criminals not victims. Then * won't look bad. :puke:

[Pacifist Patriot]

92. Apparently the same way they were supposed to get

to a shelter even though they can't afford a television, radio or transportation.

[Prism]

93. Rich vs Poor, Black vs White = crap in this situation

Simply put, we don't know what's going on in N.O. right now. We know some people are looting food. We know some people are looting clothes, jewelry, electronics, etc. We won't know the extent of either activities until shop owners and businesses go into their stores to find out what's left on the shelves. So any asumptions that this is mostly people looking for food or mostly people looking to profit is ill-informed at best. We don't know.

The media isn't reporting these things because they're racist. They're reporting on it because a breakdown of law and order is one of their favorite stories. It's sensational. Think about it. On the one hand, you have the harrowing story of people who have no food and no homes, desperately scrounging for whatever they can get. On the other, you have seedier elements of human society taking advantage of great chaos and suffering. Either way you cut it, a lot of cable news viewers find that sort of thing fascinating.

Hell, even the Fox anchor said going into stores for food is understandable under the circumstances. I don't think anyone begrudges a family with no food and water getting what they can to hold out.

It's the second element that peeves people. The non-essential goods that are being lifted. They are being lifted. In what numbers, again, we have no idea and won't for some time. People are making an awful lot of assumptions about a situation we're merely viewing from afar through a very limited number of images and reports.

I hope the looters of non-essential goods are eventually found and prosecuted. And not because of their income level or race. I dislike it when white affluent types steal as well. I'm just an equal opportunity kind of guy like that. To take advantage of human suffering for personal profit is completely repulsive to me.

Is this the most important thing right now? Not really. I would've paid little to no attention to the looting, because there are other things like life and death that keep my attention.

I just hate when these things are poured through a prism of race or class. We're witnessing human suffering. It happens to have occurred in an are that's a majority black and poor. Have no doubt, had this happened in some white, middle-class suburban area, we'd be seeing similar stories. Humans will do what humans will do. In situations like this, when you're down on the flooded street, no one particularly cares about politics, ideology, or framing the issue in a way that best suits our own beliefs. It seems churlish of us to do the same from afar.

I hate when I ramble.

[AnnInLa]

94. New Orleans is a "blue" stronghold in a red state

One Baton Rouge TV station showed a family who had left their mobile home and stayed down the road with relatives in a brick home. When they returned to their mobile home, it had been crushed by a tree. when they went inside, they had been looted, TV, DVD, microwave, jewelry gone. Food in the pantry had not been touched. These were not rich people. They cried to think fellow human beings would treat them this way. The looting that is going on is out of control. People are going down the street with garbage pails loaded with electronics, go-carts and inedibles. The people who own these businesses and the homes that are being looted are just like us....not rich. And, they have been loyal Dems for a long, long time. they have worked hard to get what they have....just open everything up to the looters? Some of yall are unbelievable.

[patcox2]

95. What does their poverty have to do with anything?

Not that you know whether they are poor to the point that they cannot afford food, as opposed to having spent all their money on drugs, anyway.

The fact is that all the stores are closed anyway, so whether you are rich or poor, you are not going to be able to buy food.

Now, are these people who didn't even have 24 hours worth of food on hand in their houses? Or have their houses been completely destroyed, along with their food supply?

Its a case by case situation, I think.

But you are naive if you don't think there is a sustantial portion of looters who are just taking advantage of the situation to steal.

[Pacifist Patriot]

96. You know. I really don't care if someone is helping himself to jeans.

I don't condone senseless looting nor do I find it reasonable. But there is nothing reasonable about what is happening in that area. We can't expect normal people to behave rationally. I would suspect the "worst" of the looters take advantage of any possible situation, not just catastrophes.

As for "looting" grocery stores and drug stores for food, water, diapers, etc....I hope it helps these poor individuals survive. Last year when I stocked up for Frances and Jeanne I made sure I had plenty of bottled water, diapers and canned food. But what if I returned to find those supplies buried under twenty feet of water and no access to my money? I'd have fed and cared for my family any way I could and faced the consequences later.

Have mercy and compassion on those less fortunate than us. Yes, even the people helping themselves to soggy jeans and water-logged CD players. They are still in hell.

[SonofMass]

112. You are right. It's not like they are republicans or anything.

[HadItUpToHere]

107. and how can anyone expect them to eat-

without a tv to watch during dinner?

[Tyranny_R_US]

108. Ummmm....

First of all they can't watch the TV without power and what good is a wet tv?

[HadItUpToHere]

110. they could watch tv just fine-

as long as someone remembered to pick up a generator too. :banghead:

[Tyranny_R_US]

111. and without fuel how are they going to fuel the generator

...not to mention do you know if any generators that work underwater?

[HadItUpToHere]

113. oh that's right...

a couple cans of coleman fuel too... :banghead:

and remember to bring the stuff upstairs...:banghead:

[all.of.me]

109. THANK YOU!

[jmm]

118. Most of these people don't have jobs anymore

Many people live pay check to pay check and a disaster like this would ruin them financially. No I'm not a fan of stealing plasma TV's but ideally the food in stores would be given away. After Gloria power was out for a few days in my neighborhood. A store across the street from me had a generator though and still stayed open. I remember him still charging my mom for cigarettes but he insisted she take some food for free. Atleast he could write it off as a business expense.

[cloud75]

119. what a mess...shrub you screwed up again first 9-11 now this. n/t

[Penndems]

120. I can understand not having anything to eat for two days and taking

food and other sustenance.

Breaking windows and stealing designer clothing, watches, fine jewelry, DVD players and flat-screen televisions are another matter. That's just common thievery.

You and I and everyone else on this website are going to end up footing the bill in higher costs because a handful of individuals think it's O.K. to steal luxury items because they feel as if they're entitled to do so.

To make a bad situation even worse, the NOPD, whose should be assisting the National Guard in restoring order, are ripping off businesses as bad (if not worse) than the looters.

New Orleans Times Picayune - "Even a Cop Joins in the Looting":

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_08.html#075195

[NMMNG]

123. I'm with you there

Food, diapers, a few articles of clothing, necessary medications, etc. all are justifiable. However I saw stories of people stealing watches, jewelry and other things that are by no means necessary for life/health care/attire. There is a line that has to be drawn.

[huskerlaw]

121. Exactly!

And also, WTF CARES if they loot? It's not like people can come back in and reclaim their property.

People are "stealing" food items that aren't going to be edible by the time the "rightful owners" get back (if they ever do). Sure, some people are taking other things, like electronics, etc. But um, the water's still rising. I don't think the electronics left in the store are going to be salvageable either.

I can't even watch the looting coverage. Fucking ridiculous.

[Lori Price CLG]

124. Exactamundo!! n/t