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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 02:32 PM
Original message
You need to read this...an incredible analysis
Got this in an email from a reader:

===

I'm a Canadian who grew up an IBM brat in Poughkeepsie NY and watched
the Vietnam war unfold from my living room, and, later, the TV sets
in the dorms at Vassar. I'm a novelist, a filmmaker, and an investigative reporter by trade, mostly with the CBC-TV's 'the fifth estate,' our public broadcaster's version of '60 Minutes.'

Your piece is as usual lucid and marked by real thought: thank you.

Here's a thought for you, as yet, I think, unraised in the freefire
zone that's what passes for American civic discourse these days.

What I see in America, on the religious right, is a paradox I've
never observed before, at least on a mass level, in the US.

For the first time I can recall in US history, a sizeable number of
otherwise rational people have divorced themselves from the American
dream---in a very specific way, but a conscious divorce nonetheless.

Millions of people now believe God, not themselves, is the prime
mover of will and event in their lives.

This strikes me as unprecedented, not least because the voices of the
centre and centre-left---you have no social democratic consensus in
the US as we know it in Canada or Europe---have little grounding to
identify the reasons for this.

As a lapsed Catholic from a very conservative Irish immigrant family,
I think what I see is what I see, if you know what I mean. The
irrational is in the ascendance, just as it was in the late 1920s in
both the US and, far more evilly, in Germany, having been well set
loose in Russia

The implications are huge: the rugged American individualist
philosophy of pragmatism and utilitarianism and the Horatio Alger
myth no longer seem to apply. The notion of social mobility itself
may well be in peril in this culture of 'inshallah'---'God wills it'.

The appetite for betterment, perversely, seems to be subsiding into a
kind of blind need to escape via consumerism clothed in
quasi-religious rhetoric...'ownership' being the latest euphemism as
people queue up for interest-only mortgages.

The lust for the material, always bred in the bone of American
consciousness, now, it seems to me, amplifies the argument that
American hypocrisy of all stripes---not just your ruling class's---is
cresting. What does America spend on pornography every year? Tens of
billions? More than on Hollywood's stuff?

That science is now in the crosshairs---both evolution and the
environment---the irrational will continue to rear its grotesque
head, just as you detail in your piece. What I view as 'Bible
worship' as opposed to outright worship of a deity means all print is
in peril.

But the engine of American history has always been business. That
world hasn't quite yet reached anything like a political tipping
point regarding Iraq or much else. I personally think the economic
reckoning is likely while Bush is still in the White House but the
timing won't make much difference.

Why? I think the American empire peaked around 1957 and that most of
what has passed for diplomacy and statesmanship---never mind the
proxy dirty little wars---has been an attempt to manage the decline.
Empirewise, it's always later than you think.

All that to say: I'm reminded of Eric Hoffer's caution from his book
'The True Believer.'

"To be effective, a doctrine must not be understood but has to
believed. We can absolutely certain only about things we do not
understand. A doctrine that is understood is shorn of its strength."
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. 'Handmaids Tale' details our decline to a society such as he has...
described.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
35. Welcome to the Republic of Gilead...n/t
:hi:
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. .
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
36. Good analysis
Edited on Wed Aug-31-05 03:32 AM by Andromeda
from an outsider looking in. Something in my American blood keeps me hopeful, however, despite the appearance of things. This land we live in has been through civil wars, world wars, a serious stock market crash, assassinations of presidents, food shortages, civil rights turmoil and foreign attacks on our soil.

We survived everything that's been thrown at us so far and I think we have a shot at making the future a lot better.

I really believe this and that's why I'm optimist for our great country. Things will balance out in the end; they always do.
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VioletLake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for sharing, Agent Bungfeeb.
Interesting thoughts... :thumbsup:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for sharing.
That was very well thought out and informative from someone who is looking through the window at us as a nation self-destruct.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Katrina plus Iraq may be the tipping point.
I expect a lot of ugly.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well, The Materialism Writer Cites Is Implicit In Darwinism & Scientific
Dogma.

Ironic, isn't it?

It's also at the heart of the Religious Fundamentalists' literal and twisted understanding of their faith.

Wouldn't it be nice if both the Science AND Religious Fundies would wake the hell up?

And the Religious Fundies aren't really that prevalent in the US. They just make a lot of noise and the Media gives them disproprotional air time.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Religious Fundies not prevalent?...
Sy Hersh said in an interview with the CBC that 70 million Americans don't believe in evolution. It's kinda hard to get more prevalent than that.

Sid
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Oh Please, Just Because Many Americans Are Christian Doesn't Mean
they're Fundies.

MOST people are moderates.

And most people don't believe that Evolution and a believe in some kind of Creative Spirit are mutually exclusive.

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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. What's a "Science Fundy?"
Most scientists I've met, and the scientists who are my friends, are very good people and do not in any way need to "wake the hell up."

Mind you, I have no patience with "Fundie" death cults...
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Well said.
We need to even out the air time. And we need to do this with a coherent leftist "spiritual" movement. An anti PTL club if you will.

What were seeing here is a frightening experiment by those who wish to blind us in the name of making money. I feel like I'm in a fargen petri dish.
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is right on target, and scary
...
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. I try learn from observations from the outside
thanks for posting this Will .

I think he touches on something you said last Wednesday
about the cold war sustaining the U.S. economy , or
more our economy being dependent on the cold war .

This letter writer mentioning our peaking in 1957
seems to understand that premise.

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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks for posting...
Canadians are generally pretty keen observers of the American condition. We're close enough to be swamped with American media and culture, but we're distanced enough to view it from the outside looking in.

It's one of the reasons Canada has produced so many popular comedic talents - we often see the ridiculousness of American society without actually being a part of it.

Sid
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. "empirewise, it's always later than you think"
Excellent point, and very true. Great email.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. A good assessment of where all the "cognitive dissonance"
in Right-Wing voters comes from.

Cognitive dissonance as mentioned in the PIPA study on American voters:

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_10_21_04.html
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is so very, very acutely RIGHT. I also believe that the fear of the
Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 03:56 PM by Nothing Without Hope
ugly truth is one of the things that keeps too many Americans from using their mind to see it. Certainty of being right, of being "on the winning team," is far more comfortable, and there are lots of people plus the TV set to encourage them in this choice and to keep it reinforced.


To have doubted one's own first principles is the mark of a civilized man. --Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr., poet, novelist, essayist, and physician (1809-1894)

There lives more faith in honest doubt, believe me, than in half the creeds. –Tennyson



Tom Tomorrow shows this selfish, willful, irrational denial of reality with his characteristic biting vision. This title of this cartoon is "Averting Their Eyes."



Recommended. Thanks for posting this, Will.
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Gronk Groks Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. I always wondered what the fall of Rome felt like...
...unfortunately I am afraid I am going to find out from the inside of the Empire...

Somewhere around 2006 or 2008 at the latest I guess I'll know if I have to get out. That is if I can still get out...
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. I don't see anything new here. The late anthro prof Marvin Harris
laid it out and tied it together decades ago, when it was first starting to be a serious problem.

He urged us to fight back, and made a point that's seems underappreciated to me: "To want something badly enough to fight for it doesn't guarantee success. But it changes the odds."
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Old Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
19. Darwin was devout
Let's throw a witch or two on the fire and talk about how "new" this religious movement is. The current understanding of the term Fundamentalism is relativity new. The origin of the species was originally conceived as the explanation of intelligent design.

Don't let the media pull you into a conflict that does not really exist. There are only four million evangelical Christians in a nation of two hundred and seventy million people. It takes years to introduce a new textbook into the American school system. Fear, controversy and discussion of a fundamental takeover of the schools and government is the only thing that can actually make it happen.

What you need to watch for is the abandonment of Christ as the first coming preaching peace in favor of Christ the second coming, destroyer of the wicked. With this change love and charity are no longer Christian values, violence and murder are.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. Excellent/frightening observation ... Now, what to do?
I think the first step lies in taking back the media. The RW has about 1800 talk show hosts nation wide on the radio alone. They've also bought up many of our TV stations - the nation is being collectively brain washed and we need to de-program them somehow.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. Actually, it's very simple. When the situation seems hopeless
people turn to the irrational, to religion to proved hope when hoping makes absolutely no sense.

Our poor overwhelmingly support the republican party because they feel the republican party supports their belief.

Unlike Russian peasants who got angry and stayed angry for a hundred years until they broke the kulaks' backs, Americans turn to an irrational belief that authority knows what it is doing and even if things are bad it's God's plan.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yep, and a little propaganda doesn't hurt either.
:(
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johannes1984 Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
23. 't is all very true
but here's a hoping and a wishing .For if there is one people with the resiliance to change it's the American people ...take the way they reshaped Europe for better , the way the founding fathers succeeded in drafting a government which is deemed to progressive by those who are now trying to pervert it ...and a whole list .Now grant you bad shit is about to fling all new kind of ways we can't imagine ,...i stand correcting is flinging right now .

Well i know it's one world as kenedy so aptly put it , so 't is in this worlds best interest to see the american dream survive ,...not as a meek consumerist reactionary jerk off ,fox news 80 second recap ...but as the bright philosophy it once seemed to be in people's mind .

May fortune turn in all of our favors
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northerdar Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. American Born, Canadian by Choice.
This Canadian who writes to Mr. PItt has it down to a T. This is exactly as I view AMericans. I came up to TO on Woodstock weekend 1969 and stayed. Now I am in the Great Ontario North, retired. I just got off the phone from a old childhood friend in NJ who is a devout Catholic. she has no idea of what the Downing Street memo is, what levee are in New Orleans or of the hurricane's destruction. All she could talk about is God's will and a recent loss of a her son's sister-in-law to a drunk driver. she has no idea of what is happening in her country. She just goes to Church.
and BELIEVES IN GOD, THE ALMIGHTY.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. true that...

...but I suspect that, as in the slave days, much of it is greed, narcissism, paranoia and the lust for power, but justified through "religious' arguments.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
26. Fear of personal choice. Fear of the consequences of choice.
Abrogation of personal responsibility. Safety in a mob.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
27. don't know who he is
but that is good insight
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
28. "Deus Veult" On with the Crusades!
There's a revolution going on dismissed as an "insurgency". Around the world people, and now their governments, are beginning to see the hollowness of the American Empire. America is now without the "Evil Empire" to scare the people into docility and has replaced it with "terrorists".

If one looks at the "threat" of "terrorism" it comes from 3rd world countries tired of being used by corporate America. From Iraq to Venezuela to Brazil to any number of "enemies".

But, on with the great Crusade called "War on Terror". Alas, the bosses are getting their asses kicked.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
29. Excellent piece!
How sad our country has come to this...and frightening.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
30. Horrifying but Probably True...
unless "We the People" lead and not wait to follow. At least you Will can hold your chin up and know that you have done your part. I hope I can do the same.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
31. I have a muslim friend from Gambia
I've mentioned him before. He considers himself a liberal, and is very interested in politics. I was looking at DU at work being embarrassed yet again by something * had done, I kind of groaned, and said "we look bad to everybody" Another coworker piped up and said to my friend "but everybody still wants to come don't they(name) (She is also liberal this was a friendly conversation). He said "Yes, the United States is the last place where there is hope for many people. No where else can the people go and start over and make something of themselves like they can here" He was talking about the American dream. He says in Islam, what his religion teaches him is to find god within, to get to know god oneself, not to just blindly follow clerics. He said "even in my country your see that, people who won't think for them selves, they just do whatever the clerics tell them to do". This isn't a slam on religion in anyway, but the writer of this article seems to have hit it. When we don't think for ourselves, when we blindly follow dogma or doctrine, we lose. And what America stands for for people like my friend and all who came before him slowly gets eroded away.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
32. The empire was falling almost from the moment of its inception.
There is no room for empires in this day and age. Period.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
33. People who think that the rightwing is in the ascendant in the U.S. are
watching or reading too much war profiteering corporate news monopoly "news."

The war profiteers give these extremist views--views that have always been with us (I remember it from my youth, as the "Christian Anti-Communist Crusade" that used to meet out in the Mojave Desert in tents), and who have always been, and always will be, a small minority--a BIG TRUMPET (the news monopoly establishment) with which to promulagate their simpleton "talking points," creating the ILLUSION that they are somehow the "mainstream." They quite demonstrably are not. I won't go into the stats here. Let's just grant that I can establish it, beyond any question. And it's not good for them either, that they are so trumpeted--because they have so little thought and so much hot air in what they have to say. Much of it is empty rhetoric, literally cribbed from Karl Rove or some rightwing billionaire's insidious "think tank."

So I don't get too excercised by the wingers and anti-evolutionists. I think that the American people, as a whole, are just fine, in their justice-minded, democratic value system, and their political judgment. But I do think that they--we--the great American majority--are obviously disempowered and DISENFRANCHISED (quite literally). And if we can regain the mechanism of power--our vote--we will put things right. That's a big if. But I'm hoping it can be done, and working on it myself.

We never wanted this war--and don't want this empire. It was not our choice. We just have to find our way back to democracy, and throw the Corporate Rulers and their obscene War Profiteers out of power.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. The article lacks insight into American sense of Patriotism,
was my opinion,also. There were a whole lot of us here in FL that were leaving (the country) if * got re-elected. We're still here though, cause were just as big dumbasses as the idiots that re-eleced him. Go figure.
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strike one Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
37. America's Business is the Business of War
I agree that the engine of American history has always been business.

Along these lines, war became America's business in January 1950, and that's why Bush smiles a lot. He and his kind have invested in the industry of war, and they are counting on a certain degree of destruction to the people's belief that America belongs to the people.

I'm actually replying so that this site will allow me to post an article explaining a lot of this. I guess I'll "submit" now and try to post again.

Keep your eyes out for Strike One.
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