WiseButAngrySara
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:04 PM
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Levee construction... Isn't there something better than sand bags? |
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This might be a dumb question, but I wondered about it since early this am when it was announced suddenly on MSNBC that the VP of Tulane Hospital was thinking about evacuating the patients because of a leak 2 blocks in length on the 17th street(?) canal. (I worked at Tulane Hosp and Charity in 1994, and I love the city!)
The question: What are the levee's lined with? If sand bags can even be considered to stop/repair the breach, can't a polyethylene/plastic/super glue type substance (which is water impermeable anyway) be sprayed or painted? Reminds me of the Dutch Boy story with his finger in the dike...Surely, SOMETHING better than sandbags is available in this synthetic world of ours?
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LiberalEsto
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:06 PM
Response to Original message |
1. Bags of oil co. executives? |
WiseButAngrySara
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
8. That would definitely be my first choice, were it only possible!!...n/t |
doublethink
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:07 PM
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2. I actually heard ... an interview earlier with a worker ....... |
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saying if they had to drop abandoned CARS onto the levey, or whatever ......... that is what they would use to attempt to plug it. Whatever it takes. Peace.
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ladjf
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
14. I suggest the barge in a pile driver, drive post twenty feet apart, |
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mount gates between the post then shut the gates one by one as the are reinforced on the low pressure side. Further sealing could be worked from there. This is the same principle as the oil well cappers use. There is plenty of equipment and expertise in the NO area to handle this.I don't know that they aren't doing this now.
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WiseButAngrySara
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
18. This sounds ingenious, and I imagine that you're correct about lots of |
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people in the area who are used to working on this (all of the off shore oil well rigs for one, and all of the port work)...any way to find out what's being done? I've asked several people who've responded to this post about general constrution of levees...What are they made of? lined with? wood, cement, dirt, etc. Do you know?
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ladjf
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
20. The levees are made out of dirt mostly. |
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I just read that the chief of army engineers is working on a plan to plug the breach in the levee. "working on a plan"? Please, New Orleans has been there 300 years. A break in any of the main levees was capable of wiping out the city and now, they are "working on a plan". Why in the hell didn't they already have a plan, complete with work barges, equipment and everything on hand. The National Guard has a main presence at Lakefront airport, about six miles away. The equipment includes several large helicopters. Work barges could have been stationed on Pontchartrain, a short distance from the breaks. Why didn't the canals have emergency gates at the mouth to the Lake? This is unbelievable.
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WiseButAngrySara
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Tue Aug-30-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
21. I agree with you . It is and sounds unbelievable! Almost makes me |
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believe in LIHOP(?). I just heard on Anderson Cooper that the levees are 'earthen' (moats, dkes, canals)...so they're just packed dirt conduits is what it sounds like.
"Working on a plan"....unfrigging believable!
Thanks so much for your info. It seems as if you should be there working on this.
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tridim
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:11 PM
Response to Original message |
3. A cubic foot of water weighs about 62 pounds. |
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Keeping that water within a levee is like trying to stop an earthquake. It's the nature of nature.
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bj2110
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:12 PM
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4. Has to be something that can be air-lifted into place. Not many |
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materials fit that description, when you consider the material must mold the opening and become watertight....
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ladjf
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
15. Helicopter prefab gates. Drop then in the break and close them |
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one by one, bracing from the low pressure side.
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Spinzonner
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:15 PM
Response to Original message |
5. On the news the other day |
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I think it was Nightline. they mentioned there had been a prposal some years ago to build a wall around New Orleans - mainly concrete I assume - to protect it from storm surges. I assume that would also be a replacement for the levee.
Since the perfect storm was off in some indeterminate future and it would have costs lots of $$$'s, it was never followed through on. I think this was long enough ago that it's not a Bush issue.
It's always easy to spend tons for remediation but skimp on prevention.
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WeRQ4U
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
7. They actually did something similar where I went to college. |
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Following a devestating flood, they built a brick and concrete wall between the city and the river. The roads in and out of the city can be shut off by sliding another piece of the wall into place with a crane.
Fool me once was their motto.
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LSdemocrat
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
19. I believe that CNN said the cost would be in the billions |
kbm8795
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:16 PM
Response to Original message |
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With their big mouths and inflatable egos, they most certainly should be able to absorb a lot of water and expand enough to plug up the levee.
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WiseButAngrySara
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
10. Ha-Ha!!! I neede a laugh! Did you see #1? Shares your views. |
jmowreader
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:18 PM
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9. No, sandbags are the best thing |
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When you're trying to build a hasty levee, you want heavy things that are easily malleable and that cost very little. A sandbag weighs as much as you want it to--they are throwing around some that weigh a ton and a half--you can bend it to your will, and it costs next to nothing.
The sandbags really don't need to be lined with anything; after you put enough sand down and it gets waterlogged, it's great for holding water back.
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LiberalEsto
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
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should work just as effectively
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WiseButAngrySara
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
16. Thanks, that makes sense. What are the levees themselves lined with |
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or constructed out of? Cement? Wood? Dirt? I really don't know.
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jmowreader
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Tue Aug-30-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
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For a permanent levee, where you're trying to make something that will last and you have the luxury of time, concrete is the best choice.
Unfortunately for rescue efforts, there usually isn't enough hydraulic cement (the kind that sets underwater) sitting around in the vicinity of a disaster to make permanent levees right away. So sandbags are the thing.
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SlackJawedYokel
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Tue Aug-30-05 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
24. Those are more like seawalls and rarely breach. |
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Most levees are just packed dirt and as such are susceptible to washout and such. Easy bet is that lost of money will get spent reinforcing or rebuilding the NO levee system.
Or lining politicians pockets.
I mean, it *is* NO, right?
Cletus
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SlackJawedYokel
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Tue Aug-30-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
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The kind of crap goes to landfills. Some might be reinforced with concrete posts and such, but I doubt it. Dirt is cheap.
Cletus
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xultar
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:22 PM
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11. Sand bags are great cuz they conform to fill in gaps. |
CatholicEdHead
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:29 PM
Response to Original message |
13. 1997 Grand Forks ND flood |
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had dump trucks put load after load of clay on the farthest N-S main drag (Washington St). That kept most of the water from moving further west.
I am not sure if it is now even possible with the NW situation.
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WiseButAngrySara
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
17. Clay sounds good to me...Did you mean NO? What's NW? |
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I guess I need a diagram of the construction of the levees; how they drain, what they are constructed of, etc...
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libertypirate
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Tue Aug-30-05 06:33 PM
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25. Rail cars from trains. It doesn't take that many to make a stopper |
doublethink
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Tue Aug-30-05 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
26. That is a great idea to slow down the initial flow ...... or the river ... |
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then drop the 3000 lb sandbags on the down side of the flow. Peace.
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libertypirate
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Tue Aug-30-05 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
27. They use them when hwy 1 in CA washes out /nt |
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