When the fundie minister meets reality

[cmd]

Last week my brother died. It was a probable suicide that is still being investigated. Another brother has become a born again Christian. His new best friend is his minister; and my brother talks frequently about his new found faith.

He tried unsuccessfully to convert my troubled brother, and was very disturbed that he would not be going to heaven. He sought counseling from his best friend/pastor who admitted to him that he really didn't know what was going to happen to my brother - that it was up to God. All of his hell's fire and brimstone sermons came unraveled when he faced my brother and admitted that he didn't believe what he was preaching. I wonder how long it will take my brother to see this.

I will give the minister credit for an excellent message about the prodigal son at the funeral service. He truly was trying to comfort my brother with an honest Christian parable.

Two other notes:
1.I believe in a God of love who would never turn away a troubled person like my brother.
2. Yes, he voted for Bush. My deceased brother voted for Kerry.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

1. My father was a Lutheran pastor, and whenever he heard fundies

talking about how such-and-such a person was going to hell, he'd say, "It's not up to you, and I'm glad."

[thinkingwoman]

2. my condolences for your loss

No God(dess) I would worship would turn away a troubled soul.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

3. The Gospel of St. Peter

tells of an afterlife where everyone gets to Heaven. Some will spend a long, long time in Hell paying for their sins, but eventually they arrive too, to much rejoicing and welcome.

This is the only theology that is possible if God has infinite mercy.

You can see why it was kept out of the Bible.

Peace.

[Ladyhawk]

4. Sorry, CMD.

The idea that a loving god could punish people in hell is ridiculous. Hell and the doctrine of original sin are responsible for a lot of suffering among fundies whether they want to admit it or not. They have to watch everything they do and they can't just be themselves because human nature is totally corrupt.

Your brother is not in hell. I'm very sorry about your loss. You'll probably go through a lot of emotions before you can put this event away for long periods. :(

I've been suicidal before. From experience I can tell you that your brother was quite probably in unspeakable pain and could see no other way to ease his misery. Most people who commit suicide do it for this reason. They really don't mean to hurt those who are left behind. Before a person reaches this point, he may be able to think about the impact on others, but when the point of suicide is reached, the pain is so great that he can't think of anything else. He isn't trying to be selfish. Imagine hitting your hand with a hammer. A split second afterward, what are you thinking about? PAIN!!! There's no room in your mind left for anything else. This is what the suicidal person feels.

I hope I didn't compound your grief. I just wanted to tell you what I've felt so that maybe you can understand your brother a little. If I'm off base or unhelpful, just ignore what I said. :)

I've always liked this essay: Even If I Did Believe. It's hard-hitting and logical. It helped me get rid of some of the brainwashing. Even when you accept that the whole thing is baloney, it's hard to get rid of the emotional belief. This essay helped me.

Here's another good site: http://www.losingmyreligion.com/

These sites are atheistic in nature, so if you don't swing that way, don't go. :)