A huge city in a Superpower country has been destroyed. WWTGGRD?

[Thtwudbeme]

What would the great god Reagan do?

Because, lemme tell ya something, Republicans reading this post...so far, I passed "underwhelmed" about 4 days ago....then I hit "disgusted," now I am frightened.

Do you people have enough sense to be scared? People are dead, people are trapped, a whole CITY IS GONE...and the response of the US Government is minimal at best.

[Hubert Flottz]

1. Republicans "DON'T CARE"

unless it costs them something.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

3. It's going to cost them the elections that are coming up.

[Thtwudbeme]

5. Isn't 30 Billion enough for them to care?

This is going to throw this country on a faster economic spiral down to a depression...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this shit out.

[Tesla]

7. 30 billion, huh... that's just pocket change compared to what they

are spending in Iraq!!
Maybe we need to divert some of that Haliburton monies into our own country!!

[Hubert Flottz]

15. Stopping the ignorant tax cuts would help too.

The GOP has stolen America blind!

[mattclearing]

40. All part of the free market system

If you can't afford to live above water, tough shit. It's not the government's job to improve living conditions.

[Cobalt Violet]

51. All the rich got out.

They're the only people who count to repukes anyway.

Everyone else made a poor decision and chose to stay.

:sarcasm:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Bush basically passed the buck

when he told people to seek out private relief agencies.

[XanaDUer]

8. Catch me up, please

Bush said that they have to seek out private relief funds? What is going on?

This is even worse than the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew, and the local disaster director had to go onto TV and beg for help.

[ecoflame]

18. When was this?

Shit! I've been asleep for the past four or five hours - now what's happened?

[DemExpat]

4. This whole response is very freaky to me...

I can't believe that this is the U.S. of A.

:cry:

DemEx

[Thtwudbeme]

6. Neither can I. I am seriously scared now.

I don't know what we are going to do if there really is another terrorist attack in this country. We clearly do not have the leadership to deal with it.

[Jawja]

52. Or another big hurricane hits another

metropolitan area before the season is over...

[DoYouEverWonder]

Plus a major US Seaport is gone

Oh well, just wait till the Repugs run out of coffee and gas. Then let's see what their response is.

[Prodemsouth]

9. Folks, I am as Yellow Dog Democrat as they come. I have to

say this is past partisanship. Bush is just doing a breath taking lousy job with this hurricane. At least show some god damn concern- just show concern, this monkey can't even do that. I am f...ing outraged today. I believe it goes beyond being a Republican, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, would have done a better job than Bush lets admit that. When I explain my outrage- I say that I believe past GOP Presidents would have done a better job, but then I launch into a Katrina on Bush's handling of his job. Separate him from Republicans thats how we will get him. And after these last two weeks we need to go get him. He should be impeached for incompetence.

[Thtwudbeme]

11. I agree....and just where the HELL are the Congressmen, and Senators?

Where the hell are any voices of reason in DC?

[Prodemsouth]

16. Thank You!! good point, do the Pink Tutu Democrats now have

to wait for the monkey in order to do something. "Oh we can't upstage Bush, that would not be polite - never mind the biggest natural disaster in US history has happened."

[Thtwudbeme]

17. Yep. I don't recall reading ONE word for ANYONE in DC other than

Trent Lott's hair products got washed away.

[crispini]

33. Yes. It's not that he's a Republican...

It's that he's incompetent.

[tkmorris]

10. THEY DO NOT FUCKING CARE

Now I am not the kind of guy who normally posts anything in caps like that but this one needs the emphasis. They don't care. In fact it's worse than that, not only do they not care but they really really need for no one else to care either. Because if you do you might notice that most of the National Guard troops that normally become heroes in circumstances like this aren't available. You might notice that the funds to keep New Orleans safe when the inevitable happens were in fact cut rather harshly by the Bush admin. You might even notice that the state of Louisiana is doing everything in it's power to prepare before the storm and help after it but is handcuffed by a total lack of federal support.

Mark my words. If you have been paying any attention the last few days you know damned well that the death toll from this storm is in the thousands. It's in the hundreds in the Biloxi/Gulfport area alone and may well reach 4 figures without even counting anyone in Louisiana. The official death toll though will not break 800. They don't want you to know the depth of their crime or their apathy to human suffering, unless the human in question has a net worth of over a million dollars and donates regularly to the political machine. They will continue to portray poor blacks in New Orleans as criminals, animals really, deserving of their fate due to their own ignorance and clearly asocial tendencies. What do you think the all the focus on looting is about anyway? Criminalizing the victims, minimizing the sympathy for them.

I am am totally beside myself with rage right now, most of all at some of the people here at DU. I expect this crap from Bush et al, but people here ought to know better. CNN shows looting all day long (featuring the same 6 people looting on the videos, over and over) and long time DU'ers lap it up and start suggesting SHOOTING LOOTERS ON SIGHT. It's disgusting how easily even we are manipulated. I fear for the future of my country. No I take that back. I despair.

[pippin]

27. Haven't you mentioned the real cause

why Bush and company don't care? Because so many of those affected are Black and/ or poor? If this were an affluent, white region of the country I'll bet there'd be efforts at mobilizing rescue and resources. Someone is probably going to say I am playing the race card but I've never believed that the current facist bunch in the white house ever cared a hoot for people of color. What's happening now in the wake of Katrina is evidence enough.

[phylny]

12. I was thinking much the same thing yesterday, hearing info on the

radio regarding how much the American Red Cross is doing and hearing the pleas for money to help them do their work.

I thought, "WHY in this country of ours do we depend so heavily on contributions at a time like this? WHY isn't the government fully funding rescue and relief efforts?"

This is not to say that I don't appreciate the Red Cross, I'm just stunned that the government doesn't do this first-hand.

[RC]

13. Well, what do you expect.

All those brown people with weird ideas and inappropriate music with funerals. Why most of them lazy people didn't even have cars so they could get out before the hurricane. Besides how many refuse to give a thousand dollars or more every year to bu&h.
Help, you gotta be kidding? They didn't suck-up to the Right people :sarcasm:

* * * * *
The inapt & incompetent way this administration is handling the aftermath of Katrina so far needs to be addressed loud and long. The governments first priority needs to be for its own citizens, not the killing innocents half a world away for private profit. Someone needs to look at the legality of how bu$h is using our National Guard for his killing spree.

[staticstopper]

14. I think it is pretty clear

that what ever happened with the 2000 election, it was very very bad. I feel like we are living in a totally different country.

Our nation is breaking apart at the seams.

[DELUSIONAL]

19. The military MUST be in shambles -- otherwise they would have

been helping in New Orleans and other hard hit Gulf States ALREADY.

This is a ALL HANDS ON DECK disaster -- and I just haven't seen the sort of reaction from the military -- let alone the National Guard that I would expect in a disaster of this magnitude.

And yes all previous Presidents WOULD have either called in all their markers and got cruise ships -- got the airlines to bring in planes to evacuate -- whatever it took.

Or they would have appointed someone who could take charge and make sure that on the Federal level all help that was needed would be delivered. This means Republican AND Democratic Presidents.

Bush has been skipping around - la de da, la de da -- but not showing any human reaction to one of the biggest disasters that has hit during HIS presidency.

Everything that is happening as the result of a Hurricane with this much power WAS predicted -- they knew it was just a matter of time before New Orleans took a major hit.

The mayor of New Orleans has every right to be pissed.

WE have every right to be pissed -- because what this tells us is that if some sort of disaster struck where we live -- the reaction would probably be very similar.

Bushie's war has got things so far stretched that the "homeland" can't be taken care of.

And this time bushie doesn't have Clinton to use as an excuse.

It sure didn't take bushie -- the chickenhawk of chickenhawks long to totally destroy the military. What's the matter -- is everyone so afraid of bushie that they aren't going to take any actions on their own without his express approval.

If this is true then this puts a whole new light on the Plame outing -- bushie had to have known and probably ordered it.

IMPEACH THE BASTARDS.

[elehhhhna]

43. He put the ultrafuckup, Rummy, in charge. Bank on a worsening situation.

You confront disaster w/ the President you HAVE--not the President you want.

[theflyscotsman]

20. Honestly...

This has been a bizarre read. As many NG are involved *now* as were involved for Andrew *ever*, and tens of thousands of additional NG have been activated in over a dozen states.

I've seen one guy who keeps wondering about why they didn't get the schoolbuses out to bring out the poor, and I'd like to know that, too: The evacuation was under local control, and somebody needs to be asking questions about why Hizzonor the Mayor and the state leadership thought it was a good idea to pack people into the Superdome (which apparently wouldn't have stood a chance against a direct hit by the storm) instead of at least trying to get them out of the apocalypse. Louisiana state law gives them the authority to make those decisions, and they blew it big time. Now people are in there cleaning up the mess. (Normally, moving people into shelters is a good call, but not in this scenario, as we're seeing. Huge lack of foresight.)

As one guy pointed out earlier using some hard data, trying to fill in that levee breech is relatively futile. One guy earlier even claimed that the Repugs caused the hurricane to take the heat off Karl Rove using some kind of tesla laser beam or something. What the heck is with this? There's blame to go around here, but for once, just once, it doesn't all fall on the White House.

There is no Batman, there is no Superman, and when a thing like this happens, nobody has magical powers to make it all better. You can put so many helicopters into the sky that they crash into each other, but most of the dead died far too quickly to be saved. This "minimal" response is pretty proportional considering what I've seen in Mississippi floods, but the reality is that there's little or nothing that can be done to save the city. We're just as susceptible as Indonesians or anybody else, and it's a tragedy. This is why they call it a disaster. Does it have to be further tainted by politics?

[Thtwudbeme]

24. This is a political board. Our opinions generally are "tainted" by

politics.

As far as that remark is concerned...what about this isn't political? We pay our taxes...our POLITICIANS decide how much to tax, and how to spend the tax money...so claiming that I am somehow "tainting" this discussion with "politics" is a rather...well, I don't know what...response.

I assume you already knew that, though.....

As far as being as susceptible as the Indonesians, yes, yes...I agree...Mother Nature doesn't care about the US more than other countries...yes, quite true. But here's your big difference: we are supposed to be a "Superpower." We are one of the richest countries in the world.

This is a national emergency, just as 9/11 that was so politicized by the GOP was. I was in NC on 9/11....I am in NC now. But, I feel the pain of the people involved--I feel personally responsible for helping SOMEHOW.

We shouldn't be relying on private companies to bail us out of this shit; our NG troops shouldn't be tied up in Iraq fighting a war they weren't trained for.

Do you not understand that?

[theflyscotsman]

26. Political...

I don't think it's proper to seize upon an actual tragedy as an opportunity to further our own political goals, is all I'm saying. There's something morbid about cooking up bizarre conspiracy theories *during this*. This deserves some deference.

Back on the practical side, yes, we are a superpower. Unfortunately, all the superpowers in the world couldn't save all those Indonesians, either, which is my point: We're past the point of "bailing us out of this shit". There are 125,000 National Guard troops activated and ready to go for relief in NO, but there's simply nothing they can do now. 6,000 or so are already there, but the city has flooded. The levees are toast. Biloxi is flattened. The bulk of those who didn't get out or get into the Superdome and like shelters are now dead, and the rescue teams are rowing their boats through the corpses to find those who still live.

That's what I'm trying to impress upon you here. The situation these people you see looting for food are in is *bad*, but they're not in any more imminent danger then the people in the Superdome, and the conditions that await them in refugee tent camps aren't going to be warm and fuzzy either, and getting them there is going to be a massive, time-consuming project. There's not really a rescue for us to rush to. No matter how much of a superpower we are, there's only so much we can do when nature decides to kill.

[Thtwudbeme]

28. "There's not really a rescue for us to rush to"

my God.

Do you understand that there are people trapped in places where nobody can get to them?

Do you understand that there are people in hospitals with failing or no generators?

I can't even respond to the rest of your post....what the hell ever.

[theflyscotsman]

32. The hospitals...

are going to be evacuated, along with the Superdome. That's from the Governor herself, last I heard.

I agree with you, there are a lot of people trapped, some of them under entire collapsed buildings, but what do you propose be done? Do you believe that there are enough divers and dig crews *in all of the South* to excavate the entire city, not to mention Biloxi and all the other flattened cities, and find them?

There are thousands of good people hard at work on this, pilots and divers and all kinds of people, looking for people who are in a position to wave something and get their attention, but there are a lot of people who no number of rescue workers can help.

[salin]

31. those folks "looting for food" ARE in dire shape right now

food, water, shelter is needed now not five weeks from now - there is indeed a time element. There are BOTH immediate needs and time-consuming projects. That is why we need leadership to get folks concerned not just right now as it is unfolding - but a sustained concern because those in need will likely be in need for quite some time. Our news cycles are short and our national attention span is short. Sadly we, as a people, don't keep our concern and thus 'charitable spirit' going beyond the immediate. Except when, as was the case with 911, the coverage and state of the areas and families hit, is focused upon by our leaders and by our media.

Btw, curious as to why, in your previous post the tone seemed to mock the decisions of the Mayor and Governor (per evacuation to the DOme) and then call for not making political statements (per criticism of bush)?

[theflyscotsman]

34. ...political mockery

I have no problem with raising questions about the decisions made. What I do have a problem with is people using this as an opportunity for the truly cartoonish kneejerk Bush bashing. We all do it, but this isn't the time or the place.

News Bulletin: The religious right did *not* order New Orleans destroyed. OK? It makes us all lesser people to indulge in this silliness.

The people who are alive are in dire conditions, but this is a dire disaster. There are 200 ambulances moving patients right now even though there are only barely roads to put the ambulances on. Would we feel better if there were 2,000, perhaps at the expense of ambulance service elsewhere?

As for the mayor and governor, I brought it up because people keep bringing up the evacuation as though it were some kind of national failure (unchallenged by other readers), despite it being a local baby, locally ordered, locally planned. It always is, because local authorities are supposed to know what to do for scenarios that require intimate local knowledge. Their plan left New Orleans' poorest and sick to rot in the Superdome, a place that would've been a deathtrap had the full wrath of the storm hit.

[sendero]

37. There is no "theory"...

... involved in the FACT that the funding for the known needed improvements to the levee system were cut by the Bush** administration.

There is no "theory" involved in the FACT that this is the worst-managed disaster relief effort I have ever seen.

There is no "theory" involved in the FACT that this president continues his pointless political stumping while the worst national disaster, even far exceeding 911, happens before our eyes.

Please do not contaminate the FACTS with nutty conspiracy theories in a feeble attempt to diminish the relevance of the FACTS.

[theflyscotsman]

39. i don't...

...contest any of those statements.

It is not, however, for example, a "fact", as some have claimed repeatedly here, that the government is deliberately trying to kill as many black people as possible. *rolls eyes* That kind of hateful rumor milling is what spurs senseless racial violence from any side.

I agree Bush's initial response to this has been stupidly handled and was probably related to some seriously bungled planning on the part of aides. Just from experience, I'm guessing they totally messed up prioritizing this due to the general conception until yesterday morning that everything was more or less "OK" in the city. What's really alarmed me is that despite round the clock media coverage, I've run into a lot of people who are still totally unaware this is even happening because they basically turned off the TV set Monday night. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

I haven't seen the evidence backing up the levee funding for myself, but assuming it's true, the question could just as easily be asked why it wasn't done 10 years ago. Nobody is spending serious money to deal with the Yellowstone Caldera, a meteor strike, the La Palma volcano, or any of the other apocalyptic scenarios that could obliterate significant parts of this country overnight, either. Unforutnately, this is likely going to be a huge, stupid case of locking the gate after the horse has already run away, provided we rebuild NO at all. (I personally think a lot of people will have started new lives before the city is habitable again and will never return.)

...but the relief effort? This appears to be about on par with what I've seen and participated in in the past. It's a disaster, and it's chaotic, although I'm sure it's helpful for people in ergonomic chairs to chew their ass on discussion boards about what a shitty, disorganized job they're doing. It's undeniable that they don't have all the things they'd probably like to have, but they simply never do at first, and this disaster is extremely unique, nothing like it has ever played out before, nor was it even the type of flooding disaster that they originally anticipated. The city has been flooded for all of a day. Now they seem to have a better grip on things, things have settled down, and soon, the really heavy lifting will start. Draining, cleaning, and rebuilding this mess is going to be one of the great feats of human history.

[Lerkfish]

41. what color is the sky in your world?

obviously you are not grasping the gravity of this situation.

I'll stop there so my post does not get deleted.

[theflyscotsman]

46. point proven

Unfortunately, it's *you* who don't appear to grasp the gravity of this situation, which is exactly what I'm trying to impress upon certain people with this thread.

Riddle me this: What magical superpowers do you believe that FEMA or the National Guard have at their disposal to make this all go away? I'm as pissed as anybody else that this has come to this, but it's incredibly frustrating and just a little insulting to watch people screaming about how this is "the worst relief effort ever", as though someone could just snap their fingers and it'd all be OK if they just *really wanted it to be*. I'm astounded at how many people expect instant results on something of this scale (totally unprecedented), and are ready to attack the people working like dogs to save lives. These are not realistic expectations. This is why they're called "natural disasters": Because they're disastrous. They *suck*, and if you're in downtown New Orleans and lived through this, that in itself is astonishing. It *may* take a little bit for somebody to come get you off your roof, because virtually everyone else and their stuff has been wiped out, too.

There aren't a lot of scenarios left here where people need to be rescued in a matter of minutes. Logically, the major focus should be coordinating the evacuation of the tens of thousands of people in the Superdome (who are in some danger), hospitals, and other shelters to get them somewhere safe and lift the burden of looking after them from the crew in the city so that they can help others.

Coincidentally, that's exactly what they're working on.

[Habibi]

53. Very sensible posts

and sorely needed here just now.

Btw, welcome to DU!:hi:

[Lerkfish]

54. my apologies

I misread your intent in previous posts.
I'm just a little upset at the whole thing....

[salin]

21. Blame looters (poor folks who are desperate), Clinton

(stock response), lament lamely for Trent Lott's loss of his home (and claim that this shows that GOPers know "the pain" that NOers are going through), and turn the cheek in order to look for the newest bushite talking points.

[newswolf56]

22. This is not incompetence but deliberate savagery...

on the part of the Bush Administration and the oligarchy it serves. The Christofascists despise New Orleans as "Sodom on the Mississippi," and the oligarchy hates it because city voted 77 percent for Kerry/Edwards, and a disproportionate number of its people are black and/or poor. It has been condemned -- whether by Bush's slashing of the levee-improvement and disaster-relief funds or by the Army's mysterious decision to abort the levee-sandbagging operation yesterday -- for precisely those reasons.

Ultimately we are witnessing is an especially grotesque proof of the extent to which Bush has unleashed capitalism at its Tryannosauric worst: in this Enron Nation, people are valued only in terms of their wealth -- which means that those of us who do not belong to the oligarchy are ultimately worthless. And there is only one way to understand this sort of capitalist savagery: class war. Thus the great irony of the Bush presidency: the oligarchy's chosen man in the White House has made Marx again as relevant now as he was in 1917.

Alas unless we keep our anger at the New Orleans outrage alive online and in our own memories, the corporate media will suppress it: note the blame-shifting already underway in the twin legends of impoverished residents too stubborn to evacuate and run-amok looters. Precisely as if we lived in some fascist tyranny in which the poor are blamed for each and every one of the nation's ills.

Were the Democratic Party able to produce a leader willing to articulate our righteous fury at the savaging of New Orleans by the Bush Administration, such leadership is precisely what could lead us to overwhelming victories in 2006 and 2008. Alas, given how the DLC stranglehold has turned the Party into another wholly owned subsidiary of the oligarchy -- note the new bankruptcy law (which will condemn tens of thousands of Katrina victims to years of indentured servitude) -- such vindication is at best unlikely.

[salin]

23. during the '00 election rovers skewered Gore over a claim to have

GONE TO A DISASTER SITE - over the question of which fema rep was with him. THey used the nonstory to try to keep their meme on Gore going.

Er - HE WENT TO THE DISASTER SITE.

Granted folks may not want or need Bush on site - but heck - he goes "on with his life" - to politically promote himself (pushing the war - to try to get folks to support him again) and plays guitar.

Oh wait - he has thought of the disaster: IN HIS NEW EXCUSE FOR THE WAR - to keep OIL out of terrorists hands - that is - he is EXPLOITING the disaster to attempt to promote his current political push.

[Scurrilous]

25. What kind of superpower...

...can't plug a hole in a dike? WTF are these @ssholes waiting for?

[theflyscotsman]

29. The hole in the dike...

is three blocks wide, and plugging it won't bring the water level down. I think one guy here earlier calculated it would take several *thousand* of these 3,000 pound sandbags, and each helicopter can only bring one.

[Lerkfish]

42. so therefore START IT FRICKIN NOW!

if it takes a thousand helicopter trips, so friggin what?

what the heck are you arguing? to not try to save people and property because its hard to do?

what'ya, the pretzeldent? "presidentin is hard work"

PEOPLE'S LIVES ARE AT STAKE.

sheesh.

[theflyscotsman]

44. and they are.

The sandbags didn't work, so now they're trying something new involving rock and concrete. First they have to commandeer a barge which, as I understand it, they're going to fill with rock and sink in order to block off the dike, THEN fill in around that.

Unfortunately, as a practical matter, I don't think they're going to be able to stop the water level from reaching the level of Lake Pontchartrain. This isn't the only breach, there's at least one other, and no way of knowing if there won't be more by the time they close up both of those.

Frankly, it may very well be the best thing to commit those resources to SAR and actually save some people rather than screwing with the dike, which is probably exactly what the guy who diverted the first attempt was thinking.

[SammyWinstonJack]

45. So, don't even bother trying?

:eyes: Nice.

[theflyscotsman]

47. ...as I said above...

They did, and realized it was a farce that wasn't going to work. They're working on something new today, but also more complicated and requiring special equipment. And that may not work either.

As I said above, I don't think anything is going to be able to stop the level of the water in the city from levelling with Lake Pontchartrain. They plug this hole, there's still another, and there could be more by that time.

That in mind, yes, it might be better for them to take the dozen or two dozen or however many helicopters are tasked on the levees and actually try to save people in the lowest-lying areas instead.

[TheDebbieDee]

48. Scurrilous, I believe you've hit the nail on the head.........

The summary of the situation in NO is and will continue to be:

"What kind of superpower can't plug a hole in a dike?!?!?!?!"

[jus_the_facts]

30. the magnitude of this and the repercussions........

...will reverberate through out the world and the media continues to minimize the economic collapse and serious hazards of health that're sure to be of catastrophic perportions as a result...they haven't said ONE WORD about the Port of New Orleans being shut down and the impact on the economy either...and the many more dead that havn't begun to be realized as well. :cry:

[Deja Q]

36. They want to keep the populace under control. Let's face it,

riots are a bad thing. Just so long as the poor kill each other and nobody else.

[Deja Q]

35. Reagan called alternative energy "obsolete" and ditched their development.

Anything else you want to know?

[blondeatlast]

38. Reagan would have offered relef money to NO's richest

in order to "grow" the economy from the top down.

consider it trickle-down on the already drowning.

OTOH, I think he at least would have been in New Orleans.

[Jim__]

49. Hey. c'mon! Bush is cutting his vacation short.

And, he's scheduled to appear for a photo-op on Friday. What more do you want?

[RedCloud]

50. Bush sat on his ass 9/11; 9/12; 9/13

Remember no clue from the WH? Three days of silence. It worked for him back then. We are looking at Rove's tactics again.

They are simply dress rehearsing him into some different kind of puppet and trying to figure out who can get the most money out of this disaster and what Republican bases will be best served. Then the bastard will speak.