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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:42 AM
Original message
The ripple effect has started
Edited on Wed Aug-31-05 08:45 AM by TornadoTN
To prefact my post, let me say that I work in one of the last strong manufacturing sectors in the country. We are a mid-sized, privately owned company been around for over 25 years, serving many industries with heavy duty, specialty machinery for process applications. Made in the USA by US labor, we boast that our machines are 100% made in the USA with 98% US components (we have to buy a certain part from Europe) We have been hit pretty significantly by the Bush economy and have had to adapt, and we have come out ahead. It is our resiliance and adaptability that has kept us going strong, that coupled with competitive pricing on raw materials and components. I am over our Marketing.

At any rate, my office is down the hall from the purchasing directors office. I generally dont pay much attention to her on the phone, but today I happened to hear some conversations that are striking. With the cost of fuel and supply disruptions through the Gulf Coast, our supply and material costs are raising constantly. Call in one hour, get one price, call back an hour later and the price has gone up. Folks, this going to hurt business throughout our economy. I'm not talking about the disaster itself, but in general about the poor planning for such a contingency and a lack of a viable energy plan. Wages are not going up, but prices are. How are people going to afford to spend on retail merchandise, when it is going to be a struggle to afford necessities?

I'm sure we will adapt and come out ahead, I have no reason to doubt at this point. But there are going to be sacrifices coming in the weeks, months and years ahead.

While Bush is not to blame for the Hurricane itself, I can certainly lay the blame squarely at his feet for the following things:

1. The poor state of the economy. We are teetering on the edge of disaster (if we haven't already fallen off).

2. A lack of adequate planning or contingency in the case of a natural disaster. We seem to be running around like a chicken with its head cut off, while the people on the Gulf Coast lose everything - including their lives. Not to mention, Bush dismantled everything that was in place already for a prepared and responsive New Orleans. But I'm sure that won't be his fault, since the War in Iraq trumps everything, even our own people at home. Just keep repeating the mantra, "September 11th changed everything!".

3. The war in Iraq that is not only draining money, but draining man and equipment power from where it should be - here at home.

4. Fuel Prices - Bush has barely addressed this with more than a smirk and a sentence or two. No viable energy plan, prices rising and there will be people that go without basic heating this winter because of our governments poor planning. (Do you see a pattern here)

5. I could go on, there are so many things that are just wrong with the state of our country right now, thanks to Bush.

Is our economy strong enough to withstand the disaster? Its debatable for sure, but I don't think things are going to be easy or as happy as * would like us to think. I don't want to be a doom-and-gloom figure, but I fear for our country with our current leadership and the current state of the economy.

Maybe I should just sum it up by characterizing the Presidency of George W. Bush as the most poorly planned operation of any thing I have ever seen. He has a track record prior to the Presidency, and he is living up to his reputation - and will emerge richer because of it, at the expense of others.

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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Good Post, Nominated
Edited on Wed Aug-31-05 08:44 AM by Beetwasher
And a belated welcome to DU!
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. Same story w/ homebuilders.
Edited on Wed Aug-31-05 08:45 AM by elehhhhna
Concrete's already sky-high & rationed in some areas. All other products will sail through the roof once rebuilding gets underway.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. my dad is a roofer
And his costs have SKYROCKETED. :scared:
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Tesla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Not like the SAME area had a close call LAST YEAR!!!!
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CitrusLib Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Yep. I work for a homebuilder. It's going to get very bad.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. and what if we were attacked right now? osama is still out there
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Believe me, they are watching our response to this disaster.
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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. You're right, Lonestarnot. They are watching the way.......
this situation in the gulf coast is being handled and noting the ineptness and incompetency of this administration.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Well they are getting it first hand aren't they. China Russia N Korea
are just kicked back in the observation of how we drown our own.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. I used to work in industrial supply
Edited on Wed Aug-31-05 08:46 AM by underpants
plumbing,heating, industrial stuff.

You can't just pass the cost off to the customer like others can. They will shop it around until they find someone willing to absorb the cost increase just to keep their business.


ON EDIT- Don't even THINK about trying to pass along freight costs.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Exactly
You are right...

We can't pass the cost off to our customer, especially to our foreign customers, because it is so easy to buy a similar (albeit inferior) product from China at a considerably lower cost right now! Just think of what it will be when the prices starting skyrocketing, which they already are.

I hasten to think about what the world would be like if we had a competent President like Gore (and let me say, I'm not a big Gore fan) or Kerry. Hell, even Al Sharpton for that matter.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. Yep.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. Bush is to blame because he has no foresight.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
10. Poor planning are the operative words.
It's the difference between a successful leader and a figurehead. Guess which we have?
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Efilroft Sul Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
11. Bush cut $71.2 million from NOLA Army Corps of Engineers in June
Snip:
"There is an economic ripple effect, too. The cuts mean major hurricane and flood protection projects will not be awarded to local engineering firms. Also, a study to determine ways to protect the region from a Category 5 hurricane has been shelved for now."

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367

Let everyone displaced by the hurricane in NOLA know about this.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. More on how Bush IS to blame for the devastation in NO
MUST READ: When the levee breaks
http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002331.html

Disaster in the Making#
http://www.sfbg.com/38/52/news_fema.html

rethug defunding of disaster planning & emerg. mgmt. aggravated Katrina (several links)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4493298

Hold Bush accountable for the flooding of New Orleans!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2045974
Link: http://www.sfbg.com/38/52/news_fema.html

New Orleans district, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Cut by Bush
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2042880&mesg_id=2042880
Link: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367

I don't get it. All these years and NO FUCKING PLANS????
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4514528


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4482567
Thread title: Bush has slashed Clinton's Disaster Mitigation Program. (unbelievable)
Posted by barbaraann GD Forum Sun Aug-28-05 12:23 PM

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2042880
Thread title: New Orleans district, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Cut by Bush
Posted by usregimechange GD-P Mon Aug-29-05 12:25 AM

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4490119
Thread title: Bush Cut Hurricane, Flood Protection Funding to New Orleans
Posted by Lori Price CLG GD Forum Sun Aug-28-05 09:59 PM

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2042922
Thread title: DU media Blast Bush's cuts to U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
sregimechange GD-P Mon Aug-29-05 12:54 AM

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4517048
thread title: Cuts to the Army Corps of Engineers... not a politicization, just
4MoronicYears GD Forum Tue Aug-30-05 08:44 PM

Former mayor of NO on CNN (w/Soledad)
(pleading for help from Bush)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4523454

* to cut vacation short "This is more -- this is more symbolic"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2046243
Link: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050830-4.html

Did New Orleans Catastrophe Have to Happen? 'Times-Picayune' Repeatedly
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2047226
Link: http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313





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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
13. Morning doesn't last forever....
Katrina may prove to be the event that pushes the United States over the top of the "don't worry, be happy, morning in America" crap that has resulted in a 25-year delusional binge.

We are learning the hard way that there are consequences a complete lack of intelligent leadership.
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
14. Yes indeed it has started
The company I woork for is involved with building materials as well as transportation. Truckers are shutting off their rigs when we load them, one of our biggest customers is shutting down for two weeks because of too much inventory, it is a petroleum based industry. I'm just hoping that it doesn't affect my job as well as the others who work with me.
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
16. If you bought it...a truck brought it
So goes the popular bumper sticker, and if it has to travel by truck or rail, we'll pay more.

Inflation will consume us all while salaries remain stagnate.

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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
17. I kinda think it is going according to their plan. Bust the country.
Slave labor. Submissive, obedient, and tax-paying slaves. They want control. They want balance between submissive labor and riots. So far, there plan isn't fully tested.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. You Give Them Far Too Much Credit
They are incapable of planning something that required a natural disaster to complete. Nobody's that smart, and even if someone is, it sure isn't anyone in that crowd.
The Professor
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. I didn't tie their plan to a disaster, however, I'm sure (as I said
Edited on Wed Aug-31-05 09:45 AM by higher class
yesterday in another thread) that their think tanks are studying the situation, especially sociologically; to measure crowd handling, anger-defeat reactions, martial law affects, hunger, disease aftermath, - the whole mix. I think they would want to do it with new eyes in view of the fact that we are a nation at war against each other. All thanks to fanatics declaring war on preservists.

I'm the latter - I want my Constitution and Bill of Rights. I want the people to support the infrastructure, I want the people to have all the basics and the opportunity to rise above basics on their own iniative and drive just as their parents did, I prefer to have them law obiding with all rational decisions with total focus on the protection and welfare of children who will repeat the cycle.

I resent the fanatics - those who think they can own and dictate to the rest of us.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. No Argument Here
But, a sinking economy is NOT good for people who want to own and dictate. It might be a good way to get their foot in the door (like Hitler during the Weimar Republic). But, the economy has to be strong for the rich to get richer.

Another poster suggested that they like the idea of bankrupting things so they can buy it back at bargain prices. The problem is that the money we use now is not really worth anything. Neither is anyone else's. Not in Europe, not in the far east, nowhere. It's based upon a promise of value rooted in stability and growth. Even these nimrods aren't smart enough to think that a failing economy and bankrupted gov't are good for their continued gathering of riches. And, if they aren't rich, they can't dictate.
The Professor
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. Not really
Bush wants to bankrupt the country so he and his cronies can buy it back for 3 cents on the dollar, like the Rockefellers in the Depression. Not building the levees up and refusing to study for a Cat 5 hitting NOLA, letting global warming be ignored is all part of the master plan to completely destroy the economy any way they can.

After all, hurricanes are not radioactive and so there is more left to own than after a nuclear terror strike.

Wait and see that Bush will STILL refuse to address global warming in any effective way.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Don't Agree
I don't think that's in the plan. Nobody who did that in the Depression actually made any money, because when the economy and capital markets are that bad, the money isn't worth anything either. When your example (which is wrong by the way, the Rockefellers did no such thing), occurred, the money was still backed by silver or gold. Today, it's backed by the promise of a strong government and economy. Bankrupting the gov't makes the money they have WORTHLESS! Thus, they CAN'T buy the country back for 3 cents on the dollar, because their cash is worth NOTHING!

I understand your distrust of these people, but your fears are unwarranted. They're not smarter than we are. They're not smart enough to do this. But, they're not dumb enough to think that a bankrupt nation will be good for them, either.

The Professor
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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
19. Question I posed to co-worker today: Don't the rich every get just`
plain sick about getting richer all the time? At some point does shame never kick in? There will be millions of tragic stories coming out of the Mississippi and Louisiana in the coming days. What you won't hear about is all the millions that are being made and will be made in the coming months.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Right
The rich (the top) will get richer, while their employees remain stagnant.

All the while, people's lives are ruined and will have to start from scratch. Companies and businesses across the country will fold or take up shop in the cheaper world of China or SE Asia. More and more people will fall below the poverty level, while the bar will be highered to include more and more among the working poor.

But we will be told that people are working! Profits are up!

This is a bad scenario....
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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. I told my co-worker that Bush will promise all the federal aid
he can to help these people move to Texas.
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. That's what I always wonder. When is it "enough"?
How many families and lives do they have to destroy before they are satisfied with what they have?

Look at Cheney -- that fucker has more money than he will ever need but he keeps taking, taking, taking. The same with all those criminals in the Carlysle Group. When do they say, "I have enough money now. Time to stop being a fucking asshole."
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
33. This is what I find so sad,
that so many are so fucking greedy. ????? I don't even fathom that kind of thinking.



He who dies with the most toys, still dies.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
20. Why can't the Freepers understand this?
I guess its ok as long as it happens to other people. They can sit back and say, "Sorry, now go find a job!" to a person that had a stable place of employment and a competitive income, only to see it thrown away in the blink of an eye. There are many, many more people in this world than just the "righteous few" that are among the ranks of the Republican Party.

Good grief people! I understand that a lot of Republicans are that way because of so-called moral values and their belief in God. Thats all fine and dandy, but don't close your eyes to all that is happening around you because of your blind faith in a man that calls himself a "Christian". What he is doing is not CHRISTIAN! It's not even reverent in any religion (aside from his own). There are people dieing in New Orleans, partly because of Bush's cuts to the funding of the City's planned repairs/upgrades to the levee system and partly because we don't have the equipment/manpower to get boots on the ground and respond. We haven't even heard that we have a plan to deal with this now that we have been dealt this hand. And they (the Republicans) like the laugh at John Kerry saying, "I have a plan". AT LEAST HE HAD A FREAKING PLAN! BUSH DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE!

Sometimes I feel like I am banging my head against the wall....for the past 5 years.
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ItsTheMediaStupid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. They're brainwashed
The Rush/O'Liely/Hannity/LocalAssWipe/ Right Wing corporate weasel media keeps pumping their heads full of bullshit.

The blue collar RW types are so pumped full of racist nonsense, gun worship, twisted religion, greed, fear and self-righteousness that it's no surprise that these guys routinely vote against their own economic interests.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #20
35. Yeah well thing is, it's going to happen to the middle class and working
poor repugs too. That's what they haven't grasped yet. They are going to be in the same dire financial straits, thanks to their moral votes. Tough luck that their leaders don't give a crap about them and they didn't see it. Boo hoo, but at least gays can't marry!
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
26. Does the energy policy demand new refineries be built?
In an emergency, US security demands excess refinery capacity. The refineries should be located in secure locations and not concentrated in disaster prone areas. What has Bush done? What has Homeland Security done?
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MiniMandaRuth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
28. It had begun.
I hope this nation can pull its self back together.
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