Some DUers still cling to last thread of humanity.....they think

[kentuck]

with their compassion for Rush Limbaugh and the present difficulties he is now experiencing. Maybe someday we will all be there? However, for some of us, I must say that I have come to the slow realization that any sign of compassion is a sign of weakness before these political enemies, Rush in particular.

Rush has ridiculed, mocked, and vilified Democrats for year after year and the Repubs have rejoiced in his words. He has shown no mercy and certainly no compassion for you good people or the people that believe as you. He would show no sympathy for you so why do you feel it is beholden upon you to show him the Christian values that he would use to stab you in the back?

And it is not just Rush, it is this particular brand of "Republicans" with George W Bush at the helm. Take no prisoners is their motto. Whether you like it or not, we are in a death match with these folks. As much as we would like to sit down and come to a compromise over our differences, it is not going to happen. It is not part of their character. They will stomp you into the dust. You have no choice but to fight them on their own terms. And we will consider compassion once we have defeated them...but not before.

[neuvocat]

1. Agreed.

You have to confront these people on their own terms and fight back.

[DarkPhenyx]

6. Forfit the moral high ground...

...and you may never get it back.

We tried your tactic in the war on Terrorism. Anyone want to tell us how that is all turning out?

[lcordero]

34. Having "moral high ground" is just an illusion and nothing more

[DarkPhenyx]

43. Spoken like someone who has never had it.

sad that you believe that.

[RapidCreek]

93. Oh Yea? When?

RC

[DarkPhenyx]

120. *just laughing*

Never mind.

[RapidCreek]

141. It seems, that's all your capable of...

engaging in any sort of logical debate escapes you. You make blanket statements then throw the back of you hand to your head, role your eyes and or chortle, when you are challenged. I believe you have mistaken the moral high ground with being facile and vacuous.

RC

[0rganism]

108. Fuck moral high ground! I want to live in a democracy again!

Moral high ground is great to have if the Ethics river starts to overflow its banks. However, we've been in a serious drought for the last two decades, haven't you noticed?

At this point, I just want a balls-out-assault on everything neocon from what remains of our elected representatives. Holding back at this time is taken to be a sign of weakness, and if these cretins know one thing, it's how to exploit weakness.

I will feel pity for those scumbags when they are as disenfranchised as we are now. Until then, total war.

[DarkPhenyx]

119. You can't have one w/o the other.

Democracy has one of it's strongest pillars set in the "moral high ground". Abandoning that ground is what is getting us into places like Iraq and 9/11.

[0rganism]

175. You can't mix your metaphors and eat them too

I'd loooove to read your detailed explanation of

> Democracy has one of it's strongest pillars set in the "moral high ground".

Whaaaa? Pillars? :wtf:

> Abandoning that ground is what is getting us into places like Iraq and 9/11.

Never mind that 9/11 is a date, not a place...

We "got into Iraq" 25 years ago, maybe more. And I'm almost certain that Ronny Raygun thought he was furthering the "moral high ground" by sending stinger missiles to Usama and his buddies. That kind of moral high ground was ceded looooong ago.

[azrak]

135. Excuse me?

When did you live in a democracy? The US is a republic, the founding fathers assumed that the sheep would never be able to properly take care of the "best interests" of the government.

[kentuck]

136. Actually we live in a democratic republic....

At least since Senators have been elected by the people...which was not always the case...

[0rganism]

172. Excuse you, the USA *used* to be a representative democracy

Some call it a democratic republic, but above all, the USA is a democracy: officials at every level are elected or appointed and approved by elected officials.

At least, that's the way it USED to be, before 12/12/2000.

[The Magistrate]

2. Well Said, My Blue-Grass Friend

Hands can be washed once the knife-work is done.

No quarter.

[DarkPhenyx]

9. No quarter?

Kinda sounds like the philosophy being used in Isreal right now...by both sides.

[The Magistrate]

48. No Quarter, Sir

[DarkPhenyx]

53. Again...something else sad.

So we keep fighting till we destroy anything worth fighting over then. *shaking head* Damn.

[The Magistrate]

59. What On Earth Led You To Expect Joy, Sir, And Not Sadness?

It is easy to tell who has been paying attention during class....

[DarkPhenyx]

ah...

...and now we begin to belittle out opponent w/o making a valid point on anything. cute.

[The Magistrate]

65. If You Feel Yourself Belittled, Sir, That Is Your Business

You seem on your own words to feel sadness the exceptional state...why?

Contemplation of the world in knowledge of it must produce sorrow....

[DarkPhenyx]

69. Oh, I don't feel belittled.

not at all. you failed in that respect.

[VelmaD]

70. With a world-view...

like that, why do you even get out of bed in the morning?

The world is full of joy if you look for it.

[The Magistrate]

176. Morbid Curiousity, Ma'am

To see what new way my low expectations are exceeded this time around. It is, indeed, a flaw in my character, that may be dealt with one day....

[Bake]

106. No quarter. No shit!

I'm with you, Magistrate! As I've said elsewhere, the battle is not being fought on the high ground. Some may wish to stay up there where it's safe. As for me, I'll fight down in the sewer where the war is on.

As I recall, this same thing happened when Limpballs became deaf. All this compassion flowing out from the "bleeding hearts." Did it do any good? No, the scorpion came back on the radio and even got on ESPN and continued to sting us, because THAT'S WHAT IT DOES. It can't help it; it's a fucking scorpion!! You have to kill it.

Bake

[DarkPhenyx]

122. Basic military doctrine.

Hold the high ground. You fight better from that position.

[NicoleM]

131. AMEN!

Anybody who wants to feel superior up there on the high road is welcome to do so. I have absolutely no problem taking the low road on this one.

Their sanctimony and self-righteousness is a little annoying, though.

[DarkPhenyx]

168. As long as you are happy losing the war...

...just to win a very minor battle.

[The Magistrate]

177. Sheer Foolishness, Sir

The people will never trust you to fight for them if they do not see you fighting for yourself. Elections are, for better or worse, largely a popular assesment of combativeness, rather like making side-bets in advance of a brawl that never quite takes place.

"An election differs from a civil war only as the bloodless surrender of a force outnumbered in the field differs from Waterloo."

[Ardee]

123. so we become what we hate?

then what will we have won? Once we adopt the tactics of those we agree are liars, frauds, duplicitous rascals then we will have become indistinguishable from them......

[RapidCreek]

94. Tell you what Phenyx

Here is an idea. I'll give you a bang stick and throw you into a tank of water along with a really big really hungry shark.....you can make nice with him when he decides to eat your ass for lunch or you can kill him with that bang stick. Which is it gonna be? I can tell you what will happen if you go the first route...the shark won't be hungry anymore.

RC

[DarkPhenyx]

121. Do you have anything...

...constructive to add to this conversation?

[nolabels]

140. I have found a recipe

http://www.isholf.is/gullis/jo/shark.htm



How to prepare "rotten" shark:
Don't try this at home unless you know what the end product is supposed to taste like. Putrefied shark can become spoiled.

I read in a book that fresh shark is unsuitable for eating because there is uremic acid in the flesh. This I am inclined to believe, considering that cured shark smells like stagnant urine or ammonia. It has also been claimed that that there is cyanic acid in shark meat. Fresh shark meat is said to have caused people to vomit blood. The curing process removes the acid from the flesh and makes it easier to digest. Connoisseurs of strong cheese generally like cured shark on the first bite. Others find it to be an aquired taste...
(snip)

[RapidCreek]

146. Do you?

What I have offered is constructive....I've constructed a valid anology.....one which you obviously feel intimidated by...as you have failed to address it, either way. Perhaps I should frame the analogy in more elementary terms....Would that help you?

Perhaps you could describe for us your understanding of the meaning of moral high ground. Are your morals more high than someone else's? If so, who's and what distinguishes them, as such? You speak in relative, elusive terms, which is hardly constructive. A conversation cannot be constructed upon a specious foundation.

RC

[DarkPhenyx]

169. No, your anology was far from valid.

Too bad really.

[The Magistrate]

182. Mr. Phenyx, Sir

Does indeed feel his moral level exceeds that of the common run of humanity.

Evidently spiritual pride is listed as a virtue in his personal catechism.

[Muddleoftheroad]

102. I am surprised

I expected more from you sir.

[Blitz]

155. I must say, I am similarly shocked

I have gotten quite used to the win at any cost, ideology over humanity, dogma over decency attitudes from many of the ideologues on this board. However, I am truly taken aback by the fact that the Magistrate, an individual that I have come to respect even when we disagree, has seen fit to sign on to this simplistic and terribly destructive philosophy.

Sir, I ask that you take a moment to think about this issue and reconsider your position.

[The Magistrate]

180. Your Comment, Sir, And That Of Mr. Muddle

Are most gratifying, and deeply appreciated: thank you both very much. It certainly pains me to distress good friends in any degree.

But my view in this matter remains firm, and will not alter. Limbaugh is a key element of the enemy's propaganda apparatus, and the sooner he is knocked out of use, and the greater the calamity of his fall, the greater the dimunition of the enemy's capabilities to do further harm to our country. It would be beyond even my own generous allowance for necessary hypocrisies to pretend to anything other than satisfaction and grim joy at his downfall. Further, expressions of sympathy and concern on our side will only work to blunt the demoralizing effect of his downfall on his followers. These must hear only uninterrupted scorn for their fallen idol, if they are to take the message that he, and they, are corrupt fools, and be subjected to the greatest possible degree of demoralization. This will greatly reduce the energy they devote to the political process, and bring great benefit to our country.

There is, too, one salient difference between this and another matter you are, perhaps, more used to see me comment on. In that matter, both sides have a good cause, though each commits varying degrees of evil in prosecuting it, and so it is appropriate to feel sympathy for both, even while supporting one or the other. The cause Limbaugh supports, and materially advances, is itself an evil cause, and in its service, he does evil, deliberately. There can be no sympathy for such a miscreant.

On being asked whether evil should be repaid with good, the Master replied: "With what, then, do I repay good? Repay good with good; repay evil with correction." There is no doubt from the context in the Analects that correction conveys the meaning punishment.

[tom_paine]

183. Damn, that's beautiful, Mr. Magistrate

I am right with you, pal.

[kentuck]

186. Sir, your comments are timely and thoughtful...

"Limbaugh is a key element of the enemy's propaganda apparatus, and the sooner he is knocked out of use, and the greater the calamity of his fall, the greater the dimunition of the enemy's capabilities to do further harm to our country."

He was not voted an honorary member of the Republican Congress for nothing. His propaganda is invaluable...and so will be his demise.

[bearfartinthewoods]

195. out out damn spot eom

[JanMichael]

3. 100% agreement.

Those that still think it's business as usual may well discover that it's not...too late.

Wake up!

You're either in this to win or you're not.

[Fixated]

4. .....

I admit it, I love character assassination when it comes to hypocrisy. I don't care about Rush Limbaugh. I hope he dies. Why? Because we're fucking right, and we need to win the public over. Rush is the epitome of the disease that engulf half of our populace: conservatism. Fuck him, and fuck all of them. It's us or them. We'll eat them alive

[DarkPhenyx]

11. I hope he dies?

Damn...I am glad I don't have to pay your "karmic bill" when it comes due.

[Fixated]

14. ....

All right, I'll rephrase then. "If he dies, I won't be upset."

I hope he dies is excessive, because I just really want him to shut up.

[DarkPhenyx]

5. So we stoop to his level...

...make ourselves no better then he, all because he hurt our feelings?

Sad...truly, truly sad. I weep for the future of our cause.

[Fixated]

8. ....no

This isn't about political causes. This is about those who are trying to take our country away from the right path. Period.

[DarkPhenyx]

13. Which is by definition...

...a political cause.

[Fixated]

16. ....

No, I think that this is seperate from actual politics in a way. The left pundits vs. the right pundits isn't necessarily the left vs. the right. Am I making sense?

[DarkPhenyx]

21. Yes, you are.

However it does affect the voters, which in the end affects the political structure.

[JanMichael]

10. Sorry but you don't walk into a knife fight with a pillow.

Unless of course you intend to be a martyr.

[DarkPhenyx]

17. Martyr?

I'm glad you brought it up. Of we kick him while he's down, laugh and jeer, we make him a martyr to those who listen to him. Show compassion...wish him a speedy recovery and understanding for those he spoke agasint who he now shares their affliction with...and we will be far better off.

[Fixated]

24. .....

There are no martyrs in politics unless they actually die. If you destroy a career you destroy his popularity.

[DarkPhenyx]

26. You don't think Clinton has become a martyr?

Gore?

C'mon...

Hell, Hitler is a martyr to some people.

[Fixated]

31. ....

Clinton never fell. He is the essence of us withstanding their bullshit, in my eyes.

[DarkPhenyx]

44. But he isn't a martyr for our cause?

Please...

[The Magistrate]

35. Not At All, Sir

President Clinton fought the buggers to a standstill.

He did very well.

[DarkPhenyx]

46. *soft sigh*

too bad you've entrenched yourself and don't want to discuss an issue.

[The Magistrate]

49. You May Be In The Wrong Line Of Work, Sir

[DarkPhenyx]

55. *l*

ok, whatever.

[The Magistrate]

67. You Need A Better Sign-Off Line, Sir

Perhaps the reputed last words of Mr. Wilde, looking at the wall-paper: "One of us has got to go...."

[The Magistrate]

12. Hurt Feelings, Sir?

That has nothing to do it. The reptile does real damage in support and furtherance of the reactionaries' power: the sooner he is broken, and the worse he is broken, the weaker is the foe, and the greater the prospect of success.

[DarkPhenyx]

15. I think you'll find...

...it has a great deal to do with it.

[The Magistrate]

23. Not With Me, Sir

Conflict has its own logic, and its own rules.

[DarkPhenyx]

33. ok...

...as you say. *shrug*

Dosen't sound like it though. Too much emotion tied up in the posts for them to be logical conclusions.

[The Magistrate]

38. As Was Said In The Deteriorata, Sir

"Remember that a walk through the ocean of most souls would scarcely wet your feet."

[DarkPhenyx]

47. Whatever.

n/t

[The Magistrate]

51. It Is A Work Of Un-Paralleled Wisdom, Sir

"Remember that two wrongs do not make a right, but three do."

[DarkPhenyx]

56. There is absolutely no wisdom in that.

It's pretty pathetic and innane bullshit actually.

If you are looking for wisdom try reading Senecca.

[The Magistrate]

63. Damn, You Draw Easy, Fella

Try the Analects, and Spring and Autumn Annals, for starters.

[Forkboy]

72. It's a real pleasure,my friend

to see you out of the dungeon lately.

[Spentastic]

117. Isn't that three lefts? N/T

[kentuck]

20. Darkphenyx, because we have no choice....

They will literally destroy us. They will use our good morals and good graces against us. They will stab us in the back at every opportunity. They are not the typical Republicans of the past. They are fascists. They must be defeated and we must remain united and strong until they are defeated. Hopefully, we pray, that we do not lose our compassion and humanity in the process...

[DarkPhenyx]

25. We always have a choice. Always.

"I would far rather die finantially destitute than morally bankrupt."

Kentuck, everything you said in that last post sounds exactly like everything I've heard supporting our President invading Iraq.

[kentuck]

28. The only difference this is our country.....not Iraq...

and we have to fight for it. That is the "choice" we must make.

[DarkPhenyx]

50. You can fight and still have compassion.

You can defeat your enemy, and not have to dehumanize him...or yourself. "this is our country, Iraq isn't" also sound pretty familier. It was usually accompanied with something like "you want those fucking towel heads to win, you communist Saddam-ite."

[liberalmuse]

22. Like Goebbels deserved compassion?

Rush has done more than 'hurt feelings'. He has used the mass media to sell hate and bigotry. How many gays, or Mexicans, or those of dle Eastern descent have been persecuted by his listeners because of they listen to this man's incessant goading and derision against those who are different from himself? Rush is tantamout to Goebbels--probably much worse. I'm glad he was busted, if only so he can maybe have the chance to experience being in the shoes of those he so arrogantly derides on his show, day after day. Rush Limbaugh has multi-millions, and will likely get the best treatment there is. My brother, and others like him weren't/aren't so lucky. I'll save my compassion for them, not some arrogant, hate-filled, soulless bigot. I'll save my compassion for the tens of thousands of civilians he supported bombing the holy fuck out of.

[DarkPhenyx]

40. Yes, even Goebbels deserved compassion.

You'll notice I haven't said anything about letting Rush off, or not having him punished for what he has done. Those things can be done and still have compassion for a fellow human being.

If you fail to give compassion to even one person then you are lesser for your failure. Give compassion to those who would never give it to you, and you are the better person for having done so.

[0rganism]

109. Stoop to his level? IS IT EVEN FREAKING POSSIBLE?

You'd have to dig a goddam oil well and climb down there and then do some stooping, to get anywhere near his level. One thing about his level is, it's waaaay public. Do you have a syndicated radio show that Clearchannel runs on thousands of AM radio stations to the exclusion of foremerly successful local programs? No? Let's move on.

Are you a multimillionaire with a half-billion-dollar contract to spend your week smearing anyone you damn well please? No? Okay.

Have you built your career upon lying about the Clintons?

Do you think anytime a black person gets credit for a job well done, it's favoritism?

Do you pander to positions you don't care squat about, just to keep the dollars rolling in?

Quantitatively and qualitatively, Rush's level is simply out of reach for anyone posting here. So stop exaggerating.

[DarkPhenyx]

127. It's very easy to stoop to his level...

...it's nearly freaking impossible to get back to where we should be once we do.

[bloom]

197. None of us here are anywhere near his level

Because none of us have the media power.

I suppose there are some here who - if they had the opportunity - would be willing to express the same level of hate for Conservatives as Rush did/does liberals, hate for Bush as Rush did/does for Clinton, etc.

That is something to consider.

I find it difficult to have compassion for someone who still has the power & opportunity & desire to inflict hate and pain upon others.

I don't think wanting him to stop as one would want any criminal to stop is being at his level.



He is fire - we need to be water.

[roguevalley]

7. i agree. i remember him holding up Chelsea's thirteen year old

picture while talking of the white house dog. I
was raised to have compassion but I have to indulge
my LONGED FOR desire for justice. In short ...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

[DarkPhenyx]

19. Nice.

Real nice.

Sounds like the people laughing when a certain Democrats plane crashed.

[JanMichael]

30. Apples to oranges.

I can't believe you drag Wellstone, and what happened to him, down to Rush's level.

Shocked actually.

[DarkPhenyx]

58. *shrug*

appleas and apples actually.

It also paralels those folks who laughed about the young lady getting run over by a bulldozer in Isreal.

Peace protesters getting shot with rubber bullets, then laughing again about how one of them was dressed.

[JanMichael]

Whatever.

I can see that you're going to play hump the hostess and post the last response so I give up.

Keep your (Edit: Mis-directed) dignity, or should I say assumed superiority?

[DarkPhenyx]

71. As you like.

too bad really.

as to my dignity and my superiority...as they are mine anyway, I thank you for letting me keep them.

[0rganism]

110. Has Rush been shot, run over by a bulldozer, or plane-crashed? NO!

He's getting busted for violating the same damn drug laws he supported for most of his career. This isn't even tragic to the level of Tommy Chong, who knows damn well smoking pot isn't terrorism, but will spend years in jail because Asscrack wants to make a point.

I'll make a bet with you right now: Rush won't spend so much as a week in jail. He won't do a teensy fraction of the time that a black teenage male would for posession of the same damn drugs. He'll cop some happy plea bargain straight to a cushy rehab facility, and be back to work by midyear 2004.

I will bet you money on this. $100? I'll even give you 10-to-1 odds.

Comparing this incident to a real tragedy is way out of line. This isn't so much as a scratch on the ass of his armorall career. Even if it were, and he could never work talk radio again, I'd bet you don't see as much money in a year as he sees in a day's worth of his retirement. I don't pity him one bit, no, not at all; I ENVY HIM. Do you realize he can fuck up however he likes, and still have millions of supporting cultists and a huge paycheck?

[DarkPhenyx]

124. and we are still kicking him when he is down.

it might be a bit less severe but the actions are still the same. We are behaving no better than those that we are fighting against. If we are acting no better than they, then we are no better than they.

[0rganism]

173. A BIT LESS SEVERE? He's not dead, I'd say that's a whole lot less severe

I call BS! Show me that he's down, and that we're kicking him.

So far, the only real consequence I've seen him suffer is getting fired from ESPN for making racist wisecracks. That's hardly his main gig. As I've said elsewhere, I'll bet you money that he gets out of this drug charge without doing a week in jail. If he's down now, I don't want to see him up.

And I haven't kicked anyone in a long, long time.

[The Magistrate]

181. That Is the Best Time To Kick A Man, Mr. Phenyx

It prevents him rising back to his feet, and inflicting crippling damage then is easier.

[Thoth]

18. YES!

We will fight them on the beaches! ;-)

[nostamj]

27. I HATE "Republicans" (not republicans)

not the ignorant, exhausted, faux/rush indoctrinated folk who believe that being republicans means loving the flag and supporting the troops and being a patriot.

I HATE Republicans. Republicans today, once again, demostrated their contempt for republicans. They refused to even CONSIDER pulling back *part* of the tax give-aways to the top 1%. Those that earn a MILLION or more, a year.... to PAY for the WAR their champions created.

I HATE
I HATE
I HATE
Republicans

[iangb]

57. Hate is a wasteful exercise.

It's difficult to fight effectively if hate is what's motivating you.

Hate is too hot. Try a bit of cool despising.

[Solly Mack]

29. If my humanity demands that I feel sorry for Rush then goodbye humanity

Fortunately, other people don't get to determine what my humanity is contingent upon...as much as they like to think they do

Their value judgements on what is and isn't moral have no bearing on my life or the way I lead it.

That said...

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Rush is a racist junkie! I love it! LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

32. I take the attitude of the Samurai, with these folks.

I will do nothing t provoke them. having said that, I also recognize that they are agressive, crude, uncultured. Vessels for their karma, if you will. I won't seek out confromtation with them, but should they attack, I will do everything I can to hasten the fufillment of their karmic debts. If they fall, I will watch and notice that their lives of illusion, of staggering about in a a fantasy world, brought them to this moment.

I might add, somewhat guiltily, that I will also enjoy watching blustering, moralizing, pompous and overbearing powerheads and greedheads get it in the short and curlies. They earned it. Why should I not enjoy it?

[leftofthedial]

36. the faster we get this crowd out of power

and out of the gene pool

and out of the country forever

the better

[Faygo Kid]

37. Watch the Right come out swinging

This is going to get nasty. Let's see what all those preaching compassion think once the rightwing Bush spin machine starts responding - and going on the attack. Rush is fair game - he has made himself so for 15 years, the bastard. Good post.

[PurityOfEssence]

39. How many beatings, firings and assorted hatings has he caused?

It's incalculable. How much property has been destroyed by fools prompted by his vitriol? He's wicked and he knows it; may he have a humiliating fall.

The right relies on compassion and fairplay to work their nastiness; he, of all people, should reap no benefits from the decent folk of the world.

[Malikshah]

41. I will go down to the gutter

If only to raise them up to the level of humanity that is required to live in a civil society.

Justice, Truth, and the American Way.

I play by these rules.

Rational Thought
Respect for others (rights)
Responsibility for one's actions

With that--let all the dogs of war come forth upon the minions of despair. Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, Ingraham, Blanquita, Coulter.

Let them taste the responsibility for their actions.

All the while--those in power will wait, upper-lips (I know, they're hard to find on these folks--no lipped creepoids) beading with sweat, bowels loosening, eye twitching, hysterical laughter of fear slowly rising from their sunken chests as they realize that the end of their reign has come...

Gee...I really need to get out more.}(

Just let em have it. All that is due to them and not one iota more.

[Cat Atomic]

42. I'd like him to quietly and go away to prison, so we can

return our attention to Traitorgate.

There are much bigger fish to fry than Rush Limbaugh, and the pan is hot.

[undergroundpanther]

85. Hmmm

Gandhi clearly stated that he preferred violence to cowardice although he preferred non-violence to violence. He was clearly against walking away from defending one's natural rights. He said: ``There is real ahimsa in defending my wife and children even at the risk of striking down the wrongdoer.'' He repeated on countless occasion that non-violence was the way of the strong. He wished for people to become strong not only in body but also in mind so that they would renounce violence.

When Rush shoots off his mouth,how many people got together and busted into the studio en masse and took control of the airwaves and denounced him on the air? Sure some people would be arrested for walking in to the station,some might face penalties.Some might have a bit of inconvience,or look bad at work.. but it's a small price to pay to counter the hate face to face. How long will we call our cowardice comprimise or convienence or conforming?
Is survival the highest law? or not?

When The White house does something disgusting..how many people actively denouce them like they MEAN it,with risk and obvious displeasure? How many people really try to get in thier face, and do stuff like walk into press conferences, or wrest the control of the copnversation away from a pundit by resetting the terms of discussion by example?

How many people remember they can resist the demands of a corrupt exploiting company by refusing to work for them and work on cultivating solidarity with fellow workers who are pissed too??
Silence protects no one.

How many people when they are outraged bite thier tounge and sit on it,forgetaboutit or let it fester or take it out on someone else or in traffic?
It's not bad to call a bully a bully and refuse to help him.

It might be a good thing if more and more people decided to actively resist abusive speech withthier moral indignance and got in people's faces to condemn the hypocritical wrongheaded things, like the hate words,the bullying and lies of the RW.Shame is a powerful deterrent to people who do shameful things..It would be good to speak your mind without fear, intimidation ,complacency, and cowardice taking control over what we say It would be good to not let a bully have his way yet again because you are a mere imperfect human.Each of us is responsible for the tyrants 'above' us.We let them be there and shoot off thier mouths when we don't stand up for human dignity like it matters to us personally.
As for Rush, and the Bush admin and all the corrupted amongst us on all sides,do not let them hide from themselves again . And for the confronters do not hide from yourselves either,especially what is reflected onto your character by your actions concerning your enemies.
Humility isn't cowardice.

[UTUSN]

45. Yes, Don't Fall for Their Talking Point:

They use this against us whenever our enemies have bad news: They say, "Liberals have no compassion. Liberals claim to be compassionate IN THE ABSTRACT but take this petty rejoicing when somebody is suffering."

Tweety uses this, saying that RAYGUN would give street people money from his pocket, but that we so-called hypocritical Limo Libs want money for programs but skeedaddle from individuals in front of us. Liar. There is never documentation, when and how much did RAYGUN do this. And the CUTS he inspired to social programs affected MILLIONS of people.

We are entitled to take heart when our VICIOUS ENEMY is for the moment sidelined. We are not talking about compassion for just anybody. We HAVE compassion for the condition and the pain of this individual, NOT for the 15 years of unrepentent damage he has inflicted on us.

Just now Aaron BROWN said that there is "a certain gloating" in some circles. We are not celebrating his addiction and the pain his family are having. As is the theme of many threads here, we are celebrating the EXPOSURE of the hypocrisy, not the unfortunate condition itself.

There is absolutely NO need at all for us to tie ourselves up in knots with so-called "bleeding hearts".

[Q]

52. Agreed. Keep in mind that the Bushies have bragged...

...that they consider bipartisanship to be 'date rape'. We've compromised with these fascists for too long. No more.

[Kenneth ken]

54. I don't particularly

agree with any of the posts on this thread.

Compassion is essential to being humane. I like having compassion.

In regard to Rubbish Limbaugh; I don't hate him, I think he is a danger to our democratic republic (such as it is), and I oppose him on those grounds.

As far as his alleged drug use; if he is in fact guilty, I would hope he goes to prison, for many years. That is the current law of the land, even though I don't much like the drug laws.

From priso, he might change his thinking, and so could write more books, concerning the unfariness and moral bankruptcy of our drug laws. He does have a significant following, so that might have a positive effect in halting the war on (some) drugs.

I don't think this hypothesis has a high degree of probability, but it does have some possibility, so it's worht hoping for.

I do see on this board a fair number of comments on varying topics, which if one were to change the name from repub to dem or person X to person Y would be very similar to some of the commentary posted at FreeRepublic. That, is saddening.

[DuctapeFatwa]

60. I prefer my own standards to those of the bush regime and their ilk

I don't feel that genocidal war criminals and profiteers are appropriate guides for me in determining my own personal values.

[DarkPhenyx]

64. So would it be safer to say that...

...you feel that having compassion for another human being, even if they are basically repugnant, is a decent thing to do?

or

that the current spat of "let's laugh at Rush and kick him while he is down" is a better way of acting?

[DuctapeFatwa]

74. There is small virtue in feeling compassion for someone good and noble

It doesn't really require a very strong committment to being compassionate.

If we can feel compassion, or at least apply the same justice, to the most reprehensible and disgusting among us, then we have won!


I am personally not transcendent or good enough to say I feel compassion for Rush. As I said in another thread, I believe he has a right to say whatever he likes, because I do not believe anyone should be forced to keep their ignorance and stupidity a secret.

And I could care less what drugs he, or you, take.

[DarkPhenyx]

76. Thanks Fatwa!

I appreciate you replying, and doing it in a reasoned manner. Honestly was curious which way you were headed with your post.

:)

[Bake]

107. You don't have compassion for PURE FUCKING EVIL

You **do** have compassion for humanity. I see precious little if any of that in Limpballs.

Bake

[DarkPhenyx]

125. Of course you do.

That would be basic Christian doctrine. It may be evil, but it is still deserving of compassion and love. Even if the only thing we can do is destroy it. We should be sad that we had no other choice too. Relieved, maybe even a little joyful htat the fight is over, but still saddened some, and prehaps tainted as well.

[eleny]

61. You're right

These are like the characters in a "good guys, bad guys" movie. The bad guy gets shot and in his last breath of life, he grabs his gun and shoots the good guy who happened to turn his back.

These Repubs are like this because they're sociopaths. And their motto is: Attack, Attack, Attack. They'd love it if we turn soft and true to our "bleeding heart" roots. I'm not going to turn my back for a second.

[DarkPhenyx]

66. No one has said to turn your back.

I snakes head can still bite even after it is cut off.

Neither have I said that we shouldn't be happy that he has lost an outlet for his hate crap.

However this giggling and pointing about his drug problem is unseemly. It does nothing to forwad our cause, and it makes us look bad.

[VelmaD]

73. Now there's a word that isn't...

used often enough anymore...unseemly.

Perfect word to describe laughing at the misfortunes of others. If we are furious when the right does that to one of "us" and it's hypocritical to do it ourselves.

[nomaco-10]

62. The liberal I am took over....

I was glad for the firing, but I couldn't help but to look deeper and try to figure out how rush's brand of political satire was still with us and flourishing daily on talk radio and acceptable enough to be brought into the mainstream and televised on ESPN.
We had a small victory today and we should rejoice, but let us never lose sight that O'Reilly, Scarborough, Hannity and others are still spewing lies on a daily basis and still need our vigilance to bring their particular brand of spin to the media markets attention.
Keep up the good work and never underestimate the power of the righteuos word whether it's in the form of an e-mail, phone call or a written letter, whether it be to ESPN or your local congrtessman or senator.

[VelmaD]

68. Have we learned nothing...

from people like Gandhi and Dr. King? Meeting violence with violence solves nothing. Meeting violence with compassion and love not only is more effective in defanging your enemy, but it is better for your own soul.

The universe will provide all of us with the karma we deserve eventually (including Rush obviously). I'd be careful what karma you ask for when you revel in the suffering of another human being.

Just my thoughts.
DV

[kentuck]

79. A message to all the good souls posting here on DU....

We are humane. We are compassionate. I admire greatly the faith and beliefs of people like DarkPhenyx and VelmaD and iangb. They are the glue that holds us together during the darkest times. Morally and religiously, they are correct in their comments and in their hearts.

It is sad. It is sad that we feel we must forfeit our humanity to fight this scourge that has taken over our lives, that has so intruded in our lives and our freedoms, that we feel we must fight back - with violence if necessary - to preserve what our fathers and mothers have fought and died for generation after generation.

It is sad to think we have lost the humanity that distinguishes us as a Party. It is sad to believe that the opposing political Party is an enemy because they see us as the "enemy" and know they give no quarter. Is it immoral to fight back under such circumstances? Just as Jesus walked into the temple and saw the money-changers defiling that which they held sacred, and became angry and whipped them out of the temple, we have walked into the temple and we see it is being defiled. There is no simple answer.

[DarkPhenyx]

83. Just remember that...

...sacraficing your humanity is a choice. I won't say there is never a time to do it, but Rush Limbaugh is defiantely not enough to cause me to sacrafice what little I have left.

As to fighting back? There are many ways to fight back. Remember that Jesus also was fond of turning the other cheek, and in the end he allowed himself to be martyred for the cause and did not fight back.

[kentuck]

84. Perhaps we have already won?

:) No need to gloat.

[DarkPhenyx]

86. Bingo.

Only thing worse than a sore loser is a sore winner. :)

[gulliver]

75. Totally agree.

Rush's downfall would be a great good. He is the very definition of playing to the lowest common denominator. He created his own audience of imbeciles. Maybe the shi... I mean dittoheads will wake up and blush now.

[DarkPhenyx]

77. Agreed.

There is no argument with anything you said. Now...the question becomes is it better to be magnanimous in our victory or to gloat and brag?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

78. I really don't agree with this statement Kentuck

All this oxycontin thing with Rush means is that he is sick. Given that he is sick, his behavior is in a rather perfect dance with that sickness. If one is sick and their behavior is sick then their life is an expression of that sickness manifested in language.

The same holds true for George Bush. The man is mentally ill. His illness is seen by those who don't see behind the curtain as a form of bravado but the real point is that his sickness is catching and as the media has continued to infest with this form of dominant hatred, everyone who enrolls in and admires it hereby becomes infected.

The same holds true for William Bennet who holds himself out as a paragon of virtue and is now forever tarred by the revelation that a walk through the ocean of his charachter would scarcely get your feet wet.

While I often post strong opinions and will go after opposing opinions rooted in hateful language...I have until yesterday avoided saying I HATED ANYBODY when discussing the current state of America.

Yesterday I broke and expressed hatred on a couple of threads. TO go back and read it this morning was at first a shame inducing moment until I realized I had a choice to stand by those words or not.

More hatred won't help.

I don't know what to do about these people but becoming more like them in order to combat them will ony create more people LIKE them.

We need to alter the language and hence the perception.

[DarkPhenyx]

80. Shit!

Does this mean I have to start agreeing with you? I'm not sure either of us could handle that! ;-)

[VelmaD]

82. Oh my GAWD!

Ok, I'm taking advantage of this unprecendented moment in DU history to pull DP, NSMA, and anyone else who wants into the biggest group hug ever.

:grouphug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

92. The crux of ALL of our disagreements has been this notion of

"PC"

You hate "PC", I hate the term "PC" because the NEW PC is the language of hatred and violence. It is NOW politicall correct to be hateful and violent in your language. Those who define correctness in the media have made it that way.

Therefore, rather than focus on whether use of a term is politically correct or not, I focus on whether the USE of that term inceases or diminishes the esteem of the subject it describes. That is why I abhor terms like SLUT (and not in all circumstances by the way..if you and I are talking and kidding around..I am going to probably chuckle not hand you your ass..on a message board it is different as there are thousands of eyes looking to embellish the language of hate) racial slurs and the like.

The same holds true for those that say "group think." Look at what group think has become. Thoughts of violence anger and hatred as the medium for communication. Isn;t very satisfying is it?

And don't worry..I'm sure I will once again say something that will piss you off ;-)

[DarkPhenyx]

126. And we'll hold the rest of this conversation...

...in another place and time.

[kentuck]

81. I have never said that I "hated" anyone...

Because I personally do not hate. I posted the above because I am connected to the "good soul" of DU and we have been rewarded with the values we all hold dear.

[DarkPhenyx]

87. hate and worry are useless.

they serve no purpose and are like trying to solve calculus by chewing gum.

[kentuck]

88. They are not the most productive emotions, for sure...

But even Jesus got angry and sad...but he didn't hate or worry.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

95. You don't need to say HATE to express it

There is a certain type of toxic anger (not the anger with a purpose) that substitutes. I can see it on the candidate threads..it looks like more of the same under a donkey emblem....NOT the reason I am a liberal.

[Tatiana]

89. Feel sorry for Rush? NOT I!

I think it's wonderful that people have consciences. However, I view what is currently happening to Rush as fulfillment of the age-old tenet of sowing and reaping. Rush has perpetuated nothing but hate, lies, and negativity towards many people who didn't deserve it. The chickens are coming home to roost. He is now reaping all that hate, those lies, and the negativity he put out there.

Eventually we are all held accountable (to a higher power, in my belief) for our actions. Rush is no different.

He deserves everything coming his way and more.

[Art_from_Ark]

90. Sorry, but after listening to this man spew his hatred

and vitriol over the airwaves, and seeing people being taken under his demogoguic spell, I have no sympathy for him, just as I would have had no sympathy for Goebbels as he was falling.

I might reconsider, if Limbaugh were to retract all the lies he has told over the years, and apologize to everyone he has denigrated with his harangues.

[ewagner]

96. You hit upon the most salient point

How can you show compassion to someone who will use your compassion against you?

If Rush showed any sign of remorse I would be happy to open a dialogue with him any time. But he is not remorseful, and, maybe never will be. He loves his wealth which he has accumulated spewing lies and vitriol and he will continue doing so as long as it adds to his wealth.

Maybe what we are struggling with here is this:

We can, and should, HATE the SIN, but LOVE the SINNER.

[NoKingGeorge]

152. He has done great harm to America

By blowing smoke rings of racism and lies to a small percentage of uneducated, scared , members of our society he has decreased the numbers of people who may have otherwise made a contribution to My Country.
All for money rUsh? sad .
btw: how many times have we heard this story- no concept of self esteem > whore for money > turn to drugs to help numb the reality >

[Rex]

91. If it's war they want...

then it's war they shall get.

[noiretextatique]

97. he doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy

he brought it all on himself. those advocating some hypothetical "moral high ground" are delusional. whatever "high ground" he needs will be supplied by "the liberal media," and his dittohead followere, who i am sure are full of sympathy for him. i agree with those who say addiction is nothing to rejoice in, but i have no sympathy for his very public embarrassment. he earned that all by himself. i argee with you overall: :nopity:

[REP]

98. Not Me!

I'm glad the little fucker got caught, and I don't have a bit of sympathy for his smug, hypocritical ass. Listen to what he has said about drug addicts, the disabled and the poor - I have as much sympathy for him as he has for them, ie, none.

I'm also pissed off because everytime some showbiz showboat comes clean with his Vicodin problem, it makes it a little harder for patients with actual pain to get the drugs they need to treat their pain. When taken as prescribed, narcotics such as hydrocodone are a lot safer than NSAIDs, which cause or worsen kidney disease, and people who take them for actual pain tend to not become addicted.

[agincourt]

99. I don't want him dead,

I just want him to find his true calling finally. Being in laxative and hemoroid commercials instead of political discourse.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

100. snarf!

:D

[Selwynn]

101. Because.....

why do you feel it is beholden upon you to show him the Christian values that he would use to stab you in the back?

Because in my heart I believe that I can act better than Rush.

Because I don't believe it gains me anything personally, relationally, socially, polticially or spiritually to do anything less.

Because I believe it actually matters that we lead first by example, and that we bear witness to the kind of civil society that we believe in - one that is compassionate and merciful.

Because I believe it is possible to ferociously oppose Rush's hate speech, his arogance, his ignorance, his lies, his racism and his destructive self-indluged rheotric and also not gloat bitterly in his personal problems, taking on an attitude of hatefulness, vindictiveness and cruelty.

If this scandal is the end of Rush's public career I will be happy and relieved. I believe the country would be a better place with less people like Rush holding such a strong (its sad that its strong) influence over the American public. But at the same time, I don't wish evil on the man. I don't sit and home and pray for bad things to happen to him. I don't wish for him to be injured, nor to I wish for him to personally suffer. What I wish for him is that this confrontation with his personal problems my force him into a) treatment b) counceling c) self-reflection and that he might one day understand how greviously he was in error and set about to make things right.

But even if that does not happen, I refuse to stoop to his level and spew hateful mean verbage in his direction or make light of something as serious and tragic as drug addiction. And I do this becasue I believe I am better than that, and I personally desire that our party be better than that. And I do not believe that is a sign of weakness but the greatest possible sign of strength. Too bad I will always be in the minority - its part of the reason I believe we fail so often.

Thanks for asking.
Sel

[kentuck]

130. ..if we disappear into nothingness....

There is night and there is day. There is the Sun and there is the Moon. There is a ying and yang in this world. Don't ask why? It just is.

But my post was meant to evoke the exact responses that it got. I think I probably tend to agree with your way of thinking most of the time. Hatred is like a cancer. It will eat away our souls if we let it consume us. I think the Republican Party is controlled by those that "hate". This does not mean everyone in that Party is a hateful person. And I am conscious and fearful of "hate" taking over our Party.

Perhaps this will be the end of Rush's career? In that, we could both rejoice. But do you really believe it? Or will he be back? And will he be back preaching the hatred and the vitriol which he has spread like a virus to so many people in this nation? I tend to think the latter scenario will most likely occur.

You and "Christians" such as yourself, must believe as you do in order for our Party to maintain and significance in the lives of people that need compassion and help in our society. However, with the people like Rush's disciples, there is only one way to fight them. We must defeat them in battle. It is only power that they respect.

Our Party has declined to the point of having no power in the political offices of this nation because we have not recognized and countered the methods of Rush and the Repubs in a realistic manner. And, in my opinion, unless we recruit warriors to do battle, we will continue to shrink until we disappear. Then what do we do with our compassion? Then do we ask, "Should we have done something different?"

[tom_paine]

171. Damn, that was well said, kentuck!

:toast:

[SOteric]

103. Personally, I don't mind if they see my compassion as weakness.

But then, I've done very well over the years letting my enemies underestimate me.

[0rganism]

111. It doesn't stop at seeing compassion as weakness

This is the republican MO:

Weakness is to be exploited for advantages temporary or lasting.

Compassion from your opposition is weakness.

Therefore, it is to be exploited as well.

SOteric: "Poor guy, he's sick, and needs our love."

Rove: "Then you won't mind if he does a little broadcasting from rehab, right? I mean, the guy's got to stay employed. Wouldn't want him looking like some liberal welfare queen."

[SOteric]

156. You didn't actually read my post, did you?

Or do you misunderstand the meta-message?

[0rganism]

174. I read it twice, certainly could have misunderstood it

meta-messages have a habit of getting garbled on message boards.

[AP]

104. Save a little sympathy for when Rush is spending eternity in Hell

Don't use it all up on this pill popping thing.

[JasonBerry]

105. This Thread BLOWS ME AWAY

Repubs have been using this, "They're reaping what they have sowed," crap against so many for a LONG time. They have used it against those on welfare ("welfare mothers").They have used it against gays with AIDS ("They had it it coming - shouldn't have been doing something so abnormal.") All sick and repugnant.

However, I read this thread, and the same HATRED - and that's exactly what it is - is seen all the way down this thread.

I am a LIBERAL - and proud of it. I think Rush's comments on McNabb are fair game - his problem with prescription drugs should NOT be. Unless of course, you want the HATE to drip out of your soul as much as you despise it when it pours from others.

[DarkPhenyx]

128. Welcome to the battle.

:wave:

[gottaB]

112. I will not disavow compassion

Mr. Limbaugh deserves to be criticized and ostracized. However the vital task for people of good conscience and liberals in particular remains: To expose hateful rhetoric, the harm that it causes, and to establish in our public discourse a tone of calm deliberation that will encourage creative and healthy political responses to the exigencies of our lives.

Rush is a racist? No duh. Be glad that he is finally being exposed and escorted off the national stage. But when we gloat over his comeuppance, we risk forgetting what we are fighting for.

Recall the words of the Dao de Jing:

Even in victory there is no glory.
Those who celebrate victory delight in slaughter.
Those who delight in slaughter will not be successful leaders.
The killing of many should be mourned with sorrow.
A victory should be celebrated with funeral ceremonies.

Loa-zi was talking about weapons of steel, but his wisdom applies to verbal weapons as well. It is especially pertinent in these times, when warfare is understood to be a battle for hearts and minds waged in electronic media.

[uhhuh]

113. See how easy it is to think like a freeper?

The civil rights movement would not have progressed with militant slogans and guns. If we become the "enemy" to defeat them, what have we won?

[MSchreader]

114. Let us be compassionate in our reconstruction

Let us be ruthless in our attaining victory.

Martin

[LunaC]

115. There are no rules in a street fight

The Repugs defined the parameters of this battle and at this juncture we can only fight fire with fire, no hollds barred. Once we take back the country from the hateful bastards we can set the stage for honor, dignity, compassion and courage to have meaning again.

[Iverson]

116. Compassion is strength.

Not only is compassion strength, so are a lot of other elements crucial to a civilized society, such as love and thoughtfulness, which don't translate instantly into electoral gain.

It is crucial to ask yourself what distiguishes your morality from that of Republicans, particularly the far-right hate mongers exemplified by Rush Limbaugh.

Fighting hate mongers on their own terms is surrendering to them the battle for hearts and minds.

It is possible to vigorously, strenuously fight the hate mongers' programs and philosophy while still having compassion for the humanity of individuals. I don't want Limbaugh to die, for example; I want him to wise up. As that outcome is unlikely, I will be unrelenting in opposition, but - and this is the essential point - I will not become him and dehumanize people on the basis of their awful politics.

Don't give in to them.

[T Bone]

118. Put him in a cell with Tommy Chong

What were Rush's comments about Tommy Chong ?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

129. I'm having difficult y trying to muster up any empathy for the HYPOCRIT

[arwalden]

132. Excellent Post. Compassion Only AFTER Their Defeat...

... BRAVO!

[IrateCitizen]

139. After choosing to dance with hatred, will you remember compassion?

THAT is the danger. Nothing occurs in a vacuum. When you embrace the politics of hatred, you are taking hatred into yourself. When the time comes to reject that hatred -- it may already be too late, you could be infested with it, unable to let it go.

Hatred and compassion do not occur in a vacuum. Those who do are fooling themselves.

[kentuck]

145. IC, excellent question...

And one we should all seriously contemplate...But, although I believe we have to fight these "new" Repubs on their terms, I do not "hate" them. It is a realism that I do not necessarily relish. But one that I realize must be done. We should not assume that it is the "politics of hatred", per se.

[IrateCitizen]

147. But you're the one who's advocating no compassion, kentuck

Let me ask you this -- do you think that MLK should have embraced hatred in his push for Civil Rights? After all, the white racists in the South certainly did a helluva lot more to MLK and all the rest of the black population down there than Rush EVER did to any of us.

But he didn't. That didn't stop him from denouncing them and their politics of hatred. But he never lost that moral high ground simply because he kept compassion and love in his heart the whole time.

Compassion is not a passive exercise. It's quite active. It can be quite confrontational. And it often involves much more courage than hatred.

But it is ANYTHING BUT a source of weakness. In fact, it is an expression of love, which is the STRONGEST force in the universe, by far.

[kentuck]

154. I'm not advocating "no compassion"...but that it should not hinder....

the battle that must be fought. These people are fascists. If we don't defeat them, our compassion will only be an afterthought. It is that serious.

I am a firm believer in compassion. However, compassion cannot be given to those that are unwilling to accept it. When I see a change in these partisans that are willing to destroy our nation, when I see that they have changed, then I will change my perspective on how to work with them. At this time, they cannot be bargained with. It is their way or the highway.

[IrateCitizen]

157. Compassion is the strength through which we will win this battle!!!

You obviously did not fully absorb what I wrote in the previous post, so I am asking you to go back and re-read it.

If we think we can win this battle through hatred, then we will lose -- because it will only be the HATRED that wins out in the end. It matters not who is WIELDING that hatred.

You cannot abandon love and compassion as a "hinderance" and expect to immediately find them again. I find such an outrageous assertion strange coming from you, someone who believes that the Democrats should stand more on principle. When you give into your hypocrisy, you do not own your hypocrisy -- IT OWNS YOU.

What does a man gain if he gets the world, but loses his soul in the process?

[kentuck]

159. Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth....

As I said before, I do not hate anyone. I hate what they stand for. Compassion and love are not compatible with hatred. I refuse to be labeled a "hater"...and that is what you are doing. You are assuming that to fight these people with anything other than compassion and Christian charity is "hateful". I would argue that it is necessary.

Choosing to fight them on their own terms means there is a realization of how they mean to destroy you, and to destroy everything that you believe is good in this country. As it says in Ecclesiastics, "there is a time for everything, under heaven..." There is a time for peace and a time for war.

[IrateCitizen]

162. Misreading my once again, kentuck

You are assuming that to fight these people with anything other than compassion and Christian charity is "hateful".

Wrong! I simply said that in fighting them, we need to be certain that we never let go of the compassion and love that lies in our hearts.

You are the one who said that we should not allow compassion to become a "hinderance". I don't think you're talking about compassion in that sense -- you're talking about acquiescing. That is NOT what I am talking about. Would you call Christ's kicking the moneychangers out of the temple an act of acquiescence? I certainly wouldn't -- but I would classify it as a proper moral outrage in defense of the more important ideals of compassion and love. THAT is what I am saying we need to do.

And since you want to start quoting scripture to back up your stance, perhaps you could point out the one passage from the gospels in which Jesus actually endorses war or hatred....

"He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword."

[kentuck]

164. Jesus wept.

IC, I agree with you:

"Wrong! I simply said that in fighting them, we need to be certain that we never let go of the compassion and love that lies in our hearts."

What would you be willing to do that would be equivalent to Jesus kicking the moneychangers out of the temple? He did not show compassion for them although I'm sure he had compassion for them as human children... To fight these people does not mean we surrender compassion for all time, although I have similar concerns as you about whether we let it consume us...

Love thy enemies.

[gottaB]

160. compassion isn't charity

It's the essence of understanding.

Who said "Either the United States will destroy ignorance or ignorance will destroy the United States"? It wasn't Rush Limbaugh, that's for sure.

On bargaining with enemies, you have a point. I commend you. But your wiilingness to relinquish compassion (which sounds to me more like a description of sympathy at this point), tsk tsk. You are ceding too much, letting the forces of ignorance and hatred define the conflict.

You would take heart in being heartless? Better to be heartless in having heart.

[kentuck]

163. Compassion is charity...

with these folks. You should not confuse lack of compassion as "hatred". Ignorance? Heartless? Who is ignorant or heartless to think that these fascist ideas must be defeated, not accepted with compassion and understanding? It is a question of who is in grasp of reality? They do not wish to simply defeat you in the next election - they wish to destroy everything that you stand for as a Democrat. If they could, they would hang you from the lampposts becuase "liberals' are evil". There is no room for compromise, with compassion OR hatred. They must be defeated.

[gottaB]

166. "with these folks"--exactly the problem

Fascist ideas are defeated with compassionate wisdom.

You are very much in the thick of it, friend. Yes, it is true. People are hanged from lamposts and worse. For any number of causes. But the root cause is ignorance, the repudiation of knowledge born of compassion.

[tom_paine]

170. Disagree strongly, gottaB

I believe history shows quite conclusively that fascism was NOT defeated with compassionate wisdom but with the combined might of the Free World. Only after the Freepers, errr, Nazis were defeated did the Free World pull off it's "suit of armor" and begin with compassionate wisdom exemplified by the Nuremburg Trials.

And again, as in the case of the Busheviks' spiritual antecedents and Grandpa Prescott's business partners, what does a Free Person do when it is finally revealed just what your opponents are and how low they will go?

Keep your morality and march to your doom.

I resisted such thoughts as kentuck lais out at the top of this thread for a long time, in spite of mounting evidence.

No more. Go over to Free Republic (nazistormtrooper.com) and you will shortly find out that kentuck is right.

They want us silenced, utterly silenced, just like the opponents of Hitler and Stalin.

They do not want compromise, they want us destroyed, liberals and moderates alike, because anything to the left of Albert Speer is evil. They are not shy about expressing this belief. Many MANY are also not shy in fantasizing about murdering us. This sentiment is expressed so lovignly and so often on lucianne.com and nazistormtrooper.com that I am forced to believe them.

Their masters, the Busheviks have deliberately created a multi-billion dollar propaganda structure that makes Goebbels look like a kid with a megaphone. They can introdue any lie and turn it to "conventional wisodm" in no time, especially when unchalleneged.

They have engaged in an Orwellian redefinition of terms not seen since the Old Soviet Union.

No, as in DubyaDubyaTwo, the time to show compassionate wisdom is in victory.

This is in fact a fight to the death. Like the Nazis and the Jews, are we to examine our own navels and seek "moral highground" while we are carted off to Birkenau?

Yes, the Busheviks and the demented automatons who follow them and do their dirty work are not (yet) as violent as the Nazis, but that is only because Totalitarianism is chimeric and adapts itself to the nation it wishes to rule.

Nazi-style Totalitarianism won't do it. Neither will Soviet-style. No, the Busheviks have invented a New Totalitarianism modeled much closer to "farenheit 451".

But the same old patterns exist.

And we must fight it. For Liberty. For the vision (not always perfect of course) of the Founding Father. That the Old American Republic shall not vanish from the Earth.

It took a long time and steaming heaps of evidence (as well a "looking the enemy in the eye" by going to their filthy dens) for me to come ;round to kentuck's point of view.

But I did. They are going to get more aggressive and more violent as time goes on. It became inevitable when the Bushevik Masters began experimenting with Party Sub-Media and other Goebbelsian tactics.

No matter what we do. And if we don't fight, it will only embolden them, just as it emboldened their siprtual antecedents, the Nazis.

So it doesn't matter what WE do. What they do was preordained the day their Masters decied that creating Goebbels v2.0 was the way to go.

So I choose to go down swinging.

================================================

"There are persons, too, who see not the full extent of the evil which threatens them; they solace themselves with hopes that the enemy, if he succeed, will be merciful. It is the madness of folly, to expect mercy from those who have refused to do justice; and even mercy, where conquest is the object..."
--The original Tom Paine

=================================================

Read it. Think about it.

[gottaB]

191. Who's talking about acquiescence here? --The Way of Power, 33

Those who know others are intelligent;
those who know themselves are truly wise.
Those who master others are strong;
those who master themselves have true power.

Those who know they have enough are truly wealthy.

Those who persist will reach their goal.

Those who keep their course have a strong will.
Those who embrace death will not perish,
but have life everlasting.


My preference for translation:

Those who know others are wise.
Those who know themselves are enlightened.
Those who overcome others require force.
Those who overcome themselves need strength.
Those who are content are wealthy.
Those who persevere have will power.
Those who do not lose their center endure.
Those who die but maintain their power live eternally.


Another for good measure:

Intelligent people know others.
Enlightened people know themselves.

You can conquer others with power,
But it takes true strength to conquer yourself.

Ambitious people force their will on others,
But content people are already wealthy.

Prudent people will abide.
People unconquered by the idea of death will live long.
People who live according to their means last long.


* * *

Needless to say, I think you're drawing the wrong lesson from Nuremburg.

[tom_paine]

133. Agreed, kentuck, Freepers, Dittoheads and Brownshirts

(but I repeat myself)

all believed and still believe that compassion is a sign of weakness.

I completely agree. By projecting themselves onto us for all these years, they have in fact convinced me that they are morally bankrupt automatons with no more capacity for critical thought than a dog (or a pig, in the case of Limba).

They have convinced me that, as the German Jews found out if they lived long enough to join the partisan units, compassion to monsters is wasted.

The original Tom Paine also commented on the folly of expecting mercy from people to whom the idea is anathema.

I choose the German Jew Partisan route. I choose to go down swinging.

And that does NOT include compassion for monsters.

[amazona]

134. enabling rush is actually cruel, not compassionate

When we blither about how understanding we are about human weakness even in our enemies, we have made a choice to put our own smug self-satisfaction ahead of the good of the addict. When we say that Rush should be in treatment, rather than prison, we cheat him of the common human experience and deny him the opportunity to experience a world he could have never entered otherwise, barred as he is from this knowledge by class, race, and, above all, wealth.

A man in Florida in a fine house sends his employee out to a parking lot to exchange money for large amounts of drugs.

If that man is Hispanic, he is put forward as a "drug lord" and buried under the jail.

If that man is Rush, we are suddenly supposed to be compassionate?

That, my friends, is racist.

When the rich are jailed for the same crimes as the poor, the jails and prisons will be transformed. There will be state of the art medical care. There will be rehab units. There will more and better classrooms. Does anyone here honestly believe that prison rape will be tolerated anywhere near Rush's infected ass?

Be kind to Rush, and insist on prison to allow him this opportunity to learn, grow, and change, and even -- unlikely as it may be with an addiction this severe -- to overcome his addiction. Give him a chance to turn his life around before he is too old and too dead. Treatment hasn't worked, for he cannot be isolated from his privilege and his delusions in the free world. If there was ever a candidate for prison, he is the man.

[in_cog_ni_to]

137. I couldn't agree more, kentuck!

I'm finished being nice! The Republican party doesn't afford the Democrats that pleasure, why should we? We lost our mid term election because we didn't want to speak out against this administration. MY gloves are OFF! Rush sucks and he deserves everything BAD coming his way. I've had it with the diplomatic, kind hearted approach! :grr:

[IrateCitizen]

138. I am absolutely flabbergasted by this thread....

And obviously, by being so, I'm in the definite minority.

Sorry, but I'm not into the whole idea of vengance and returning hatred with hatred. While I will never cease in completely denouncing the hatred espoused by people like Rush Limbaugh, I refuse to join in on embracing that hatred in order to defeat them.

People like that DEAL in hatred. When you embrace it, THEY WIN.

I guess I was under the false impression that people who were liberal and/or progressive were that way because they believed more strongly in the ideas of compassion, cooperation and empathy. The true test of these values is not when you are compelled to use them toward those of a like mind. The true test is whether or not you are capable of displaying them toward your ENEMY. THAT is the way that you win with love. It's not about affirming the beliefs of hate, for you should continue to oppose hatred in all its forms at all times. It's about the simple recognition of the spark of humanity, of the common web of life, that lies within each one of us -- even those who have chosen to ignore that spark, like Rush.

THAT is the way of the likes of MLK and Gandhi. What those who embrace hatred are embracing is the way of the Weathermen.

Sorry, I'll choose MLK and Mohandas in this instance. You can throw your bombs and Molotov cocktails. :shrug:

[Beetwasher]

142. I can only speak for myself

I agree with what you said. Personally, I hope Rush gets better. That's how I have compassion for him. Do I believe he should be shown leniency? No. That's not compassion, that's letting him off the hook. Do I believe that his hypocrisy should not be pointed out? No. Once again, that's letting him off the hook.

Pointing out his hypocrisy and punishing him for his crimes is not being "mean". It's called justice, both literal and poetic and has nothing to do with lack of compassion.

And while I truly hope he gets better physically, I also hope this experience helps him heal mentally and spiritually.

All that being said, I'd be a liar if I didn't admit to myself that I don't find the irony in all of this somewhat delectable, and those feelings too are all a part of being human. However, I can recognize the schadenfreude in myself and hopefully overcome it. If I could wave a magic wand and heal Rush, I would, but only if I knew it would heal his sick and twisted inner self as well, which is probably the true source of his addiction anyway.

[IrateCitizen]

143. Karmic Justice, indeed!

All that being said, I'd be a liar if I didn't admit to myself that I don't find the irony in all of this somewhat delectable, and those feelings too are all a part of being human. However, I can recognize the schadenfreude in myself and hopefully overcome it. If I could wave a magic wand and heal Rush, I would, but only if I knew it would heal his sick and twisted inner self as well, which is probably the true source of his addiction anyway.

I will readily admit that I feel the same way. But the difference with people like you and I is that we recognize the unhealthy impulse to heap burning coals on his head, and work to change that within ourselves. It's not an instant process, but it does happen over time.

However, if you refuse to recognize this, and embrace that hatred, you are setting yourself back further than you can imagine from reaching toward compassion. That is what saddens me so much about many of the attitudes expressed on this thread.

[Beetwasher]

149. Yup, we're in total agreement!

Do not give in to the dark side, it will consume you... ;-)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

150. read my post...I share your sentiments

[IrateCitizen]

158. Already saw it, NSMA.

:-)

[Selwynn]

165. You're not alone

And damn if your not in some good company, with some fine outstanding human beings like me. :D The people who have written expressing what is clearly a minority perspecitve in this subject, have done so with cleverness and elloquence and a sophistication that I feel proud of.

As a life long holder of minority opinions, I can attest the fact that the group of people who are with you, is usually a superb group of people indeed.

In the end its like that quote, "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."

Just keep your eyes peeled for those who matter. Don't worry too much about everyone else. :)

[chadm]

179. I like your intentions

And most the time this approach is correct. But when it comes to hawks like this, you can't let up on the attack. If you love cancer it will eat your up...you have to fight it.

Now I hope the old guy finds a bit of contentment in is life, but get him away from the microphone.

[Deja Q]

144. In politics, DAMN STRAIGHT. As people, fock no!!!

The Dems have been doing the opposite and capitulating to Bushco (though the candidates finally found a reason to be an opposition party. As to how much OF an "opposition" party remains to be seen, but so far so good.)

As a person, I feel for Rush.

However, how he felt for people who did similar things to he... he should get IDENTICAL treatment to those he persecuted on the issue. Otherwise any credibility he has with his followers should disappear, though his followers are too stupid to think on their own.

As for Dems playing on the same level as pukes, that I'm all for. The pukes are merciless and evil. Whoever said "good wins by being better than evil" is a doorknob.

[ibegurpard]

148. I felt compassion for Noelle Bush

Her drug problem was put under the media microscope...it wasn't her fault she was born into the Bush family. Yes, it bugged me that there seemed to be a lot more options open to her because of her family connections but I did not think she was a legitimate target. Rush Limbaugh, however, can twist in the wind. He gets no compassion from me...ever.

[Capn Sunshine]

151. NO PRISONERS

Maybe all of the hand wringing moralists need to read up on Grover Norquist and his cadre of republican strategists. Do you think this sudden partisan rancor in California is an ACCIDENT?

No, it's by conscious design and strategy. Playing the awful bad and horrible game of divide and conquer.

Until you realize these folk are actively discussing making the democratic party illegal, for chrissakes! you won't be able to work within their structure. You are still off believing we need a "loyal opposition"

They haven't just attacked the rules, people, <[b>THEY CHANGED THE GAME WE'RE PLAYING

It's not baseball anymore, its "keep away".
:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

[damnraddem]

153. Oh, yes, I have nothing but compassion for Rush. Here's my plan:

Give him another chance to prove himself. Set up a game between the Philly Eagles and the Tampa Bay Bucs. Put Rush in the game as the Philly QB. Tell the Eagle offensive line to be sure to give him all the protection he deserves. Then, let him play all the offensive downs he wants, or can survive.

[Ripley]

161. LOL! Love that plan.

In fact, let's even put Al Franken on the Bucs team, just to give him incentive.

[Zuni]

167. I have no sympathy for Rush

but I would not wish drug problems on anyone--i had them and they are a bitch.

[chadm]

178. Agreed. No compassion to enemies of humanity

That's like showing compassion to your cancer.

[soupkitchen]

184. Off with his head, off with his head

[noiretextatique]

185. is "compassion" the correct word?

i don't know...i admit i am struggling with this, and i admit it's difficult to feel any compassion for the rush PERSONA...the hate-mongering radio personality. do i need to feel compassion for a PERSONA anyway? i have EMPATHY for rush the person, addicted to pescription drugs. i even have EMPATHY for rush the person, who may have been seduced by big bucks and fame into becoming rush the PERSONA. but it's hard to have any sympathy for him, considering the harm he has perpetuated. i know that HATE is not a useful emotion, nor is entertaining hate good for my own well-being. however, i still despise the PERSONA, and though i have empathy, i stuggle with feeling compassionate for this individual. i trust this is just a reflection of my own humanity...i do not profess to be perfect.

even MLK had moments of doubt...he never "liked" being hit, beaten and spat upon, and i'm sure sometimes, he just wanted to kick some major ass. we do him a disservice by not acknowledging THAT aspect of his humanity...his very human struggle to live what he preached. his very human feelings of rage, yes, probably even hatred, and at times, despair and fear.
who on earth could blame him? or Gandhi? it's important to remember that these people were are human as we are...and struggled with themselves just as we do.

lastly, i think it's amazona who mentioned enabling, and the attention rush has gotten. i don't have anything more to add, but i found her post very interesting. peace.

[undergroundpanther]

190. Heros

The folks subjected to rampant hate,greed,domination,abuse have to decide what they are going to do about it and there are many ways to fight.When an opponent wants nothing but to destroy you,you might insist on not being destroyed that might influence your tactics and moral paremeters a bit.

Dominators of cultures tend to be conduct disordered people. They are the ones who 'need' power.
They have a different perception of people than most people do.They see other people as less than real,less than they are.Authoritarians feel entitled to deference and exceptions and are narcissistic.They have no sense of morality because they can't understand the purpose of morality because they have problems with grasping healthy social conduct.This is why morals exist to help people with social conduct..They need people to put boundaries on thier social conduct ,agression, power seeking and ambition because they can't relate to others with empathy so they don't understand why they must be civil considerate or share or control themselves or exibit sensitivity.

Morality has no impact on a person who has a disorderered way of relating to people socially in thier character and conduct .They have no appreciation for morality unless it gets them more of what they want.Ethical people and pacifists don't understand that authoritarians are sick psychologically and it colors how they interact with people and society..Some authoritarians endlessly go amassing wealth and building "connections"with fellow authoritarians and enablers and use them to keep up appearances to decieve,to con,to sway emotions,to twist perceptions in thier own favor,to isulate themselves from social accountability when they destroy lives and people catch on to them.

Authoritarian people try to dominate people who they think will submit to thier demands and stroke thier ego.People who don't know how,or refuse to speak thier language of 'power' sometimes fail when they try to teach them how to feel,or show them what they do is harmful in a way they understand when it occurs.In a battle with authoritarians any pretense to moral highground is a liability.I think it's because Authoritarians are different psychologically. (This is no excuse to let them mess up people's lives,relationships and well being however)Authoritarians don't care about anybodies morals because they don't know what they are for.They don't care about other people's suffering or thier feelings. The Authoritarian context for morality is different,they use morals and emotions like a tools to get thier way,not like an ideal to model one's conduct after or as a clue to understand someone elses state of mind..
People forget this difference in authoritarians from non-authoritarian people when they get idealogical or political and when social power is being negotiated.Authoritarians tend to gravitate to positions of power,and this tendancy makes it dangerous illness to have in control of a civil society.

[frank frankly]

187. Rush is an unapologetic racist warmongering propagandist

whose value to the insane right can not be overstated.

i hope he loses his show, his money, and his freedom. he deserves jail and no pity.

no quarter.

[Spider Jerusalem]

188. I have NO compassion for Limbaugh.

None whatsoever. His massive hypocrisy and severe drug addiction coming to light give me a warm, tingly feeling. I hope the bastard goes through an especially unpleasant withdrawal in rehab, as well...complete with convulsions and loss of bowel control. Were it someone I could regard as a human being, and not as a rather irksome specimen of a lower life form, I might feel compassion. As it is, all I feel is the dark joy of schadenfreude.

[nolabels]

189. Wouldn't one need to show redeemable qualities BEFOREHAND?

Things get confusing but trying to simplify them might help others. I asked my 17 year old step son if he ever had known anything about him (the hypocrite Rush) during the Philly / Skins football game when McNabb's face plastered on the screen. He knew nothing of what happened with McNabb and the rest of it. After explained some of it, my son said it was no wonder Rush was whacko. He said "who wouldn't be after popping that many pills?"

[PATRICK]

192. local example

Our guy got booted(Lonsberry) and I think it was partly because of the
consternation at the publicity at the WH: Call to Clear Channel! I know they had a discussion with Curt Smith, former Pappy speechwriter and local yokel pundit.

So sniff, sniff, Lonsberry has to take the consequences for this one derogatory flame after years of Dem baiting for the team. "I may have to leave town and find a job- elsewhere."

Are you listening Fox? Suddenly it is all pity. The target of his attacks, Mayor Johnson, was a class act throughout, but clear eyed. He finally noted that for years, and all during this election, Lonsberry and the team have been giving their candidate for County head free publicity and negative campaigning and did not exactly rush to condemn the final lunacy.

Such whiny pathetic creatures. So wronged. Thronged by their pundit colleagues circling the wagons of sympathy.

Lonsberry and Rush need sympathy like a shark needs more teeth. Nothing personal. Just get the partisan hate off the public airways.
As for the sponsors- Civic minded truth telling, OK, even controversy. Propaganda hate and slander, no. Probably we'll lose both before the trolls get booted. Better harmless neutral pablum than brainwashing.

Their mission pandered to the basest behavior in service of the basest villains against the ideals of their country and their vocation. Unrepentant they ask for pity- and a new job spot to do it all over again with extreme prejudice. The journalists who still mitigate and defend them are the other part of the media problem- moral blindness and again- failure to protect their calling. But they probably kicked back a few with Dave or see too much of him in the mirror.

These are not just good-joe whackos used for ratings. They are part of a weapon against America that is proving worse than any terrorist attack to date. I save my sympathy for their victims and my hate for human folly.

[scottxyz]

193. Read this and then decide if you want to talk nice about Rush

"In fact, I'm reminded--I had this story about three weeks ag--maybe it was before Christmas, maybe it was as far back as November--but there were a couple of drug convictions out in--I think it was a Colorado court. And these guys had--had done some really bad stuff, and there were mandated federal sentences for the crimes they had committed. And the judge apologized to the criminals while sentencing them because he thought it was too severe. He apologized and the com--the community was outraged. So we've gone from a judge sentencing a mother who makes her child beg six months in jail, to judges apologizing for getting dope dealers and crack dealers and drug salesmen off the streets with too severe a sentence."

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2003_09_28_atrios_archive.html#106513014119971031

"LIMBAUGH: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, it's time for tonight's weather forecast from Rush Limbaugh. No, I want to show you something. This is a map of the United States. And these blue dots represent everywhere in the country you can watch this show. We--I'm not kidding--we have over 200 television stations, and the way this is measured in television lingo, we now blanket 98 percent of the country, but I want--I want to show you one dot that isn't blue. This dot, ladies and gentlemen, this red dot happens to be our nation's capital. If Jesse Jackson--the Reverend Jackson were to have his way, this would be the new state, New Columbia, appropriately named since there's drugs and crime there."

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2003_09_28_atrios_archive.html#106513052782817754

LIMBAUGH: OK. Welcome back and thank you very much. You're watching RUSH LIMBAUGH, the television show. Substance abuse--that means drug addicts. We're now going to cover their rehabilitation if this plan goes through.

Jerry Colangelo is the president of the Phoenix Suns. He's a man I've recently met this year as a guest of a friend of mine who's the coach of the Phoenix Suns, Paul Westphal. I went out during NBA finals in June--went--with them to Chicago. Had lunch with Mr. Colangelo. He's done miracles with this franchise. Six years ago, five of his players were charged with drug abuse and this kind of thing. And it--they've--they've got a wholesome operation out there--very cultured, very classy operation. Family entertainment's the way that they look at their basketball games and their team, and this re--it set them back. Colangelo vowed it's never going to happen again. He's got a player named Richard Dumas. One-time violator of the NBA drug policy. Got caught again violating the terms of his rehab. Colangelo says, I've had it. You're not playing here for this whole season. I don't care if you're clean. You've got to show me that you cannot--that you can stay clean for an entire career. I'm not going to pay you this kind of money.'

I want to let you read along with me a quote from Jerry Colangelo about substance abuse, and I think you'll find that he's very much right. Put it up, Chet, and I'll read along.

(Graphic on screen)

"I know every expert in the world will disagree with me, but I don't buy into the disease part of it. The first time you reach for a substance you are making a choice. Every time you go back, you are making a personal choice. I feel very strongly about that."

Jerry Colangelo President Phoenix Suns

LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) He says that, I know every expert in the world will disagree with me, but I don't buy into the disease part of drug abuse. The first time you reach for a substance you are making a choice. Every time you go back, you're making a personal choice. I feel very strongly about that.'

What he's saying is that if there's a line of cocaine here, I have to make the choice to go down and sniff it. And I don't know how--how to do it, but if I was going to do it, I'd do it. If there were a gun here, it wouldn't fire itself. I've got to reach for it and--and pull the trigger. And his point is that we are rationalizing all this irresponsibility and all the choices people are making and we're blaming not them, but society for it. All these Hollywood celebrities say the reason they're weird and bizarre is because they were abused by their parents. So we're going to pay for that kind of rehab, too, and we shouldn't. It's not our responsibility.

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2003_09_28_atrios_archive.html#106513078228132431

[scottxyz]

194. What Would Rush Do? (WWRD?)

From atrios.blogspot.com (link below)

A Moment of Compassion

I'm not obligated to feel or express any compassion for Rush Limbaugh. There are 6 billion other people on this planet, almost all of whom are more worthy than Rush of any emotional energy I wish to expend. My attitude - and approach to this blog - is that it's fair to treat people with about the same degree of fairness and venom that they treat others. And, by that criteria, Rush is truly in a class of his own.

Having said that, drug addiction is (contrary to Rush's assertions below) a serious disease. While I'm all for mocking Rush's (alleged) problems with as much bile as he throws at anyone who is down on their luck, I do want to make it clear that I'm not mocking drug addiction or drug addicts generally.

When this story unfolds, my guess is that (if the basic facts that we know are true) it will be spun that poor Rush suffered from chronic pain for awhile, and in the process he got hooked. That may even be true. But, much like Andy Sullivan claiming (perhaps truthfully) that he got HIV from unprotected oral sex, and it was therefore due to an "accident," and not due to "reckless behavior," this is just a way absolving himself of any responsibility, a particularly bad strategy for someone trying to kick a drug habit. As those 12 steppers say, "if you keep doing what you're doing, you'll keep getting what you got."

If Rush were ever willing to cut anyone else that kind of slack, I might even buy it. I don't blame Sullivan for getting HIV and I won't blame Rush for becoming an addict. However, they do blame others for similar misfortunes. We make choices, and sometimes we get lucky and sometimes we don't. We should have a bit of empathy for the people who don't.

A final {Rush} transcript (For now):

"Everyone knows the Clintons have a cat. Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is a White House dog?"

{Rush was talking about Chelsea Clinton.}

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2003_09_28_atrios_archive.html#106513209448015429

[rman]

196. "compassion is a sign of weakness" = Neocon thinking

the idea that different rules should apply depending on how much you like someone is also a typical far RW thing.

If you want Rush's bad journalism exposed, then help make the media free and independent again.