Rush's drug problems prove the fallacy of the drug war

[drdigi420]

There are so many reasons to hate Rush, his drug use shouldn't be one of them.

Rush should be locked away for false advertising (claiming his talent is on loan from god), run out of town for his blatant racism, hung out to dry for his constant lies, but, in a free country, what someone puts in their body would be their own business.

Unfortunately, this country hasn't been free for almost 80 years.

Let's put him in jail for his hypocrisy, not his drug use.

[StopTheMorans]

1. yep, but we can hate him for his drug use

b/c he continually SLAMMED others for it and said that it was a choice, not an addiction. The hypocrisy is incredible, and I, for one, would delight in seeing him jailed for something that he demanded others pay the price for. I'm completely for legalization btw.

[drdigi420]

13. Thats hating him for his hypocrisy, not his drug use.

Let's be real now. We would all like to see Rush in jail, for whatever reason. but ...

Millions of addicts function everyday without problem or incident. You can see them lighting up their cigarettes outside at 10:15am.

[StopTheMorans]

14. either way, he should be prosecuted under the current laws

and statutes until they are changed, and if it's schaudenfraude, then fine, but I'll still enjoy him getting put away for his rank hypocrisy and the hatred and vitriol he has spread for years.

[hexola]

2. Kinda like Rosie O'Donnel

...posing as white-trash heterosexual all those years...

[ixion]

3. I agree drdigi420...

There are a plethora of reasons to despise Rush. One of the biggest of them is his continued support for the so called 'War on Drugs' (which is a ploy). It is people like him who have consitently been a vocal proponent of jailing people for lifestyle choices.

Hypocrisy is the standard by with the rethugs measure their greatness, IMHO.

[Terran]

4. Wrong

You are a missing an important distinction: the drugs Rush was taking are not illegal, and not generally a big part of the war on drugs. What was illegal was the fact that he was abusing drugs that are made for therapeutic purposes.

Say what you want about the war on illegal drugs (I think many of them, but not all, should be legal), but abuse of prescription drugs causes all kinds of problems for both the abuser and society as a whole.

By their very nature, Class 2-Class 5 controlled substances are designed for specific therapeutic purposes. When a person misuses them, he or she is inherently endangering themselves. These drugs are classed the way they are because they have risks, in varying degrees, of physical and psychic addiction--well-documented risks. The drugs Rush bought from his housekeeper were either stolen from a pharmacy or obtained though fraud, and those activities have the effect of driving up prescription prices for the rest of us.

You would be amazed at the number of medical professionals out there who are addicted to controlled substances the same way Rush is. I don't know about you, but I don't want a doctor who's abusing a Class 2 drug to be anywhere near me (I used to work in this field, so I know what I'm talking about).

Dirk

[drdigi420]

7. Its wrong that they require a prescription

Why should the govt pass innefective laws that protect stupid people from themselves?

If Oxy was legal without a prescription, Rush might have ODd long ago and saved us all from his bullshit over the years.


Outlawing ANY drug only makes that drug WORSE. We proved that with the most devastating drug in human history: alcohol.

[StopTheMorans]

8. I don't agree with you there

prescription drugs are EXTREMELY powerful, and oftentimes people view them as innocuous simply because they come in pill form (and hence do not have to be shot up or snorted). As such, they take them casually (many friends in college who would never blow lines or shoot up took pills almost daily, mostly low-level stuff like codeine or occasionally percs when they could get their hands on em). If these were legalized, I believe they would lead to way more problems than we could hope to solve by legalization. just my two cents, I'm all for legalization of pot, and de-criminilazation (not legalization, i.e. treatment instead of incarceration) of many others.

[drdigi420]

9. The flaw in your logic is this:

You assume that outlawing a drug makes it less likely to be abused. It actually does the exact opposite.

Outlawing ANY drug only makes that drug worse. Thats a FACT.

Legalize, Regulate, Tax, and Educate.

Trying to incarcerate our way out of the drug problem is foolish and counter-productive.

Sure drugs are dangerous, so are cars, skydiving, rollerblades, and many other activities. The difference is, we don't make skateboarding MORE DANGEROUS by outlawing it.

The drug war does NOTHING to slow drug use, it only makes that drug use MORE dangerous and problematic for society and the user alike.

[StopTheMorans]

10. "Outlawing ANY drug only makes that drug worse. Thats a FACT."

no, that's an opinion. If pills in non-prescription form were legal, then I would have taken many more than I have long ago simply because it would be easier for me to get my hands on them. And it follows that I would have had a much greater chance of becoming addicted (after I had my wisdom teeth removed, I got roxicet prescribed, and after I finished the bottle, couldn't sleep well for a week. I most likely would have gotten another bottle if I would have been able to get the prescription). I agree with your premise in SOME instances, but not all, and I am a prime example.

[drdigi420]

11. Then you would have LEGAL help getting cured

of your addiction. BUT because of the laws, all the rehab beds are taken up by people forced there by the courts for using the non -addictive marijuana.

I can't believe that you only took what you were supposed to because of threat of jail.

Why not just follow the advice of your doctor?

Most people don't need the threat of criminal sanctions to not destroy themselves. I guess it's a good thing for you that suicide is illegal in most states, or else you wouldn't have had the 'protections' of the govt to keep you from killing yourself.


The drug laws protect NOONE, they only makes things WORSE.

FACT, whether you choose to believe it or not, its FACT

Drug laws are COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE FRAUDS.

[StopTheMorans]

12. not the threat of jail, you misread what I said

the fact that I didn't have access to more was why I didn't continue taking pills. I love the way that all opiates in pill form make me feel, and I know that a few years ago (I have better control of my own habits/desires now) I would have taken more if I would have had access to them. Access should be limited, if addiction should occur, treatment should be an option. I don't agree with jail time, I said that in the last post, I just prefer the access to certain drugs to be limited, because I think it would lessen the incidence of addiction.

[drdigi420]

15. Its much easier to get pain pills on the street

than you realize

The laws DO NOT limit the availability, they only give control of the market to criminals.

THAT is what you arent understanding.

i believe in "not recommended without a prescription" as opposed to "forbidden without a prescription"


I don't want the government to hold my hand when I cross the road, especially when the corporations that control the govt have alterior motives.

Outlawing ANY drug only makes that drug more destructive. It DOES NOT cut down on the # of addicts.

[StopTheMorans]

17. yes, but what you do not understand is that

many people (obviously i am one) do not like the option of going to the streets to find drugs, because of many reasons: they are unregulated, it is illegal, it is not as safe as a pharmacy, etc... These all act as deterrents to MANY people, not just a few. I'm generally not a fan of the govt. interfering in things, but this is something I feel is different, and for the greater social good. And I completely disagree with this statement, for the reasons I cited above "Outlawing ANY drug only makes that drug more destructive. It DOES NOT cut down on the # of addicts." It DOES cut down on the # of addicts, by keeping people who would have had a chance to become addicted away from addiction by limiting their access to the drug (and again, if you argue access, see the first point I made in this post).

[drdigi420]

18. No, it punishes the rest of us for a few weak people

Why should the rest of us have to put up with the crime caused by the war on drugs, just because a few weak people can't handle freedom?


Why should I have to live in a world of constant violence over drugs, just because a few foolish people really believe that the drug laws reduce addiction?

MOST people can live without becoming addicts, regardless of the law. Most addicts function without problem in society until there is a run-in with the cops.

Outlawing drugs (even limiting them to prescription) artificially increases their value, which makes more incentive for criminals to sell it, which makes it MORE available, which makes for MORE addicts.

It's not rocket science, you should be able to see this.

[StopTheMorans]

19. No reason to start using denigrating terms...

"Why should I have to live in a world of constant violence over drugs, just because a few foolish people really believe that the drug laws reduce addiction?" For starters, I'm trying to have an intelligent dialogue with you, and you just incinuated that I am a "foolish person" simply because my own life experiences do not jive with your theories. That's just not nice.

"Outlawing drugs (even limiting them to prescription) artificially increases their value, which makes more incentive for criminals to sell it, which makes it MORE available, which makes for MORE addicts."

It is not "more available", you just ignored the whole post I just made. Most people will not buy street drugs b/c of fear for some reason (i.e. fear of getting caught, which translates into fear of losing their job, etc...). I'm not saying that they are actually "frightened", but that it is acting as a deterrent. You completely ignore the countless cases of people in middle (like me) and upper class america who will not buy street drugs because of all of the reasons I listed previously (they are unregulated, they are illegal, they are oftentimes not safe to purchase, etc...).

"Why should the rest of us have to put up with the crime caused by the war on drugs, just because a few weak people can't handle freedom?" Again, you insist on portraying me as "weak" simply because I do not agree with you. Again, that's simply not nice and it doesn't win you any points in a rational argument. I would argue that the "crime" caused by the war on drugs (exempt Marijuana and a few select others that I believe should be legalized from this) would be completely eclipsed by the harm to society of countless more addicts who would join the ranks if access to prescription drugs were made legal and readily available. Then, people like me, who enjoy opiates but do not take them b/c of lack of ready availability and the fact that they are illegal would feel free to readily try them, which would lead to a higher rate of addiction. Again, I'm all for decriminilization of all drugs, but only legalization for a few. Treatment should always be available without judgment or fear of incarceration. Can we discuss this without using degrading terms now? thanks.

[Terran]

21. Wrong wrong wrong

The violence you speak of is ocurring because of the *illegal* controlled substances black market, not because of controlled prescription drugs. There are no gangs vying for control of the Oxycontin "trade"; there is no Colombian hydrocodone cartel. You need to educate yourself better on these issues and stop confusing one issue with another.

[Terwilliger]

23. dirk, you might want to educate yourself

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n1491/a06.html?1250

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n957/a09.html?1250

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n1280/a01.html?1250

it will become the focus of violence soon enough...these are just a FEW of the relevant links I found at http://www.mapinc.org

[Terran]

24. Thanks anyway Terwillinger, but

I am very well educated on this topic--I enforced state administrative drug laws for a living for five years. I'm not saying there is no ancillary crime involved in the prescription drug black market; obviously, there is the potential there when anything is illegal. But you can hardly compare the material you linked above to what goes on with illegal drugs--it's a drop in the ocean compared to the violence and crime engendered by the illegal drug trade. My point is that the guy who started this thread was lumping the trade in legal controlled substances into the "Drug War", and the methods used to prevent that trade are almost *entirely* different from those used in the effort against the illegal drug trade.

Notably, the illegal trade in oxycontin is fueled mainly by crooked doctors, and possibly a few crooked pharmacists, although that is rare; it's *quite* a different paradigm from one where you can grow or manufacture your own material or import it from overseas. I know from experience that it can take a long time to catch these crooked professionals and stop them; but once you do, you effectively shut down a major source, and those sources are extremely few in number. The alternative, breaking into old people home's, is a very hit-and-miss way to keep a supply of the drug going. Beyond that, you would need a fairly sophisticated operation to break into a pharmacy and open the safe where they keep their Schedule 2's (a legal requirement, they are kept locked up at all times).

Another thing I know is that prescription drug abuse runs in cycles and fads--and that is what Oxycontin is, another fad. Eventually the supply will dry up, another drug will replace it on the market, and another drug will become the favorite of addicts. There isn't enough long-term presence of any one drug to inspire a mafia-like organization to spring up and control the flow. It simply doesn't work that way.

[Terran]

20. You don't know what you're talking about.

Once again, these drugs (hydrocodone and Oxycontin) are LEGAL drugs, they are not "outlawed," they are merely regulated and restricted. The poster who stated that such are drugs are very powerful is right: they are designed to contain discrete and exact doses to perform specific functions and have specific effects, and they *don't function as intended* on people who don't have the relevant medical needs for them. Abusing such drugs can be far more destructive than abusing many illegal drugs.

And the FACT is, the regulatory system set up for legal controlled substances is rational and works well. Getting rid of all such regulations would have disastrous effects on people who are careless with medications. Let's get rid of traffic signals while we're at it, because only "stupid" people will get killed without them too.

:eyes:

[Terwilliger]

22. Yes, but that's separate from his addiction problems, isn't it?

I think he should hung for all number of reasons, but NOT because he's got addiction problems. If he obtained the drugs illegally, throw the book at him...he'll just end up in the same place that Noelle Bush went.

[Terran]

25. Actually, I think not

he'll just end up in the same place that Noelle Bush went

The circumstances, if shown to be true, surrounding Rush's drug habit, are a LOT more serious than Noelle's. All she did was try to forge a couple of scripts for a Schedule 4 drug. With Rush we're talking illegal possession of thousands of units of a Schedule 2--enough to traffic in. I suppose it depends on the judge involved, but I'm a lot more sympathetic to Noelle Bush than I am to Rush.

[Bozola]

5. He's a big fat lying racist junkie

The laws haven't changed; until they do, he deserves what punishments the law requires. However unfair they may seem.

Unfortunately, since he's not poor or black, so, he'll probably refind christianity and get off with not so much as a broomstick up the bum.

Alas.

[SOS]

6. The drug war is absurd

To be addicted to Oxycontin, Percocet or morphine tablets is the same as being a heroin addict. These are health issues and should not involve prison, whether heroin or pills.
To differentiate between heroin and morphine tablets is like differentiating alcoholics by whether they prefer gin or vodka.

[villageidiot]

16. And by proxy

The war on terrorism. The root cause of drug use and terrorism are never addressed. Spending 100s of billions of dollars going after 3 guys in cave somewhere reading "Flying 747s for Dummies" isn't going to stop terrorism. Throwing drug dealers in jail that were forced by social-economic conditions to get into that biz isn't going to stop the flow of drugs into our society.

Rush? I say throw his sorry ass in jail. Who knows. After 5 years in prison maybe Rush can be "scared liberal" and emerge a new man.

:silly:

[pdx_prog]

26. While dependency

is not a crime, buying them illegally is. I have met a lot of people who have become dependent on one thing or the other. Yes, I feel bad for him, but at the same time what he did was illegal.

Jabba the Rush is going down...:)