PC and the folks who dislike the term.

[pinerow]

It is my very humble opinion that the term "PC" has taken a meaning of its' own and allows the most reactionary elements of our society the "gravitas' to inject racial and ethnic invective under the cover of "expressing their opinion"

For example, I have been to the water cooler, bar, social gathering, where the the so-called 'Un-PC' arguments are made. When someone regales you with some joke or stereotype of a given sector of our society, rarely are the feelings of the individuals taken into account.

Look, if you think that making light of someones' ethnicity, sexual orientation, culture or color is acceptable, then you should be prepared to be called out on it.
I consider the act of being politically correct to be nothing more than taking someone else's feelings into consideration when making a sweeping comment about them.

PC= being polite, a virtue that is sadly lacking in our very troubled times.

[wryter2000]

1. Thank you

I am so sick of hearing about PC as if sensitivity and courtesy were some kind of impossible burden on social discourse.

[Brucey]

2. Right. I always put the emphasis on the C in PC.

Afterall, it's not called "politically wrong."

[rjbcar27]

3. Politeness is a virtue sadly lacking, however

Political correctness in many cases is just asinine.

[Brian Sweat]

14. Care to provide an example of how "political correctness" is wrong?

I agree that when the term first appeared, it described behavior that was a bit over the top.

At first it was used on college and University campuses to describe an atmosphere were academics had to conform to the dominant campus ideology. An example of the type of behavior that spawned the term "political correctness" was a graduate student whose paper was rejected because it contained the phrase "rule of thumb" which supposedly dates back to an old blue law that says that a man cannot beat his wife with a stick bigger around than his thumb.

A little latter, the term was applied to groups who insisted that they not be called by certain names, even though those names are not really derogatory. Some black people no longer wanted to be called black even though it was black people who said that they should be called black in the first place. Handicapped people decided that they wanted to be called physically challanged, but when that gaines acceptence they dicided that they wanted to be "differently enabled."


Then, starting about 10 years ago, conservatives started using the term to shut down debate. Anytime they said something offensive, they would appologize for not being "politically correct" when people attacked them for it. Rush Limbaugh shrugs off criticism for the things he said about Donovan McNabb by saying that people are attacking him for not being politically correct.

[vi5]

4. I mostly agree, but there have been instances...

Where it was taken too far. At a certain point, something is going to offend somebody somewhere for some reason. To completely neuter all expression and all language is just as bad as the opposite extreme sometimes.

[pinerow]

7. Please elucidate on the "instances" when "PC" was taken too far.

As a man of color (I call it a nice shade of brown), I have had the question asked of me on more than one occasion; how would you like to be referred as?...African-American, Latino, or what.

My response; try using my name...

[vi5]

13. What you described is kind of what I mean....

People going so far overboard to think of people as groups or worry about what their "group" wants to be called and forgetting that people are individuals and should be treated as such.

Just the overall condescending tone that a lot of politically correct stuff took on.

My personal experience is in that of the independent music/punk rock seen where there were things like insisting that women be called womyn or grrrls or having "safe zones" at concerts or shows where only women could be or only people of color could be.

I just generally think that it's negative connotations come when people outside of those groups attempt to speak for them, as if they don't have a voice of their own.

And don't get me wrong, I understand the intent and that it is done more out of a sense of compassion and concern and not malice. But I just think the general effect of it sometimes comes full circle back around to a form of racism via condescension.

[Liberal Veteran]

16. I think it sometimes goes too far....for example

The American Library Associations list of banned books is a veritable smorgasborg of examples of political correctness gone astray.

I personally agree that the term "PC" is used far more often than it should be and more often than not is used as a excuse to be out and out rude and insensitive.

The problem is that the term is not set in stone and everyone has their own version of what is and is not insensitive and offensive and it varies by region of the country and indeed the world.

It's a tough subject. In theory, I see nothing wrong with political correctness. On the other hand, the term has become so hijacked and charged with so much baggage that it is difficult to even have a discussion of the topic itself.

[haymaker]

5. You're right, PC is common courtesy.

Period.

[MrPrax]

6. Your right...

PC is a media term of 'derision'

You said it beautifully...
"I consider the act of being politically correct to be nothing more than taking someone else's feelings into consideration when making a sweeping comment about them."

Why would I consider it PC if a 'black' tells me they PREFER African-American or an 'Indian' says they prefer 'ABORIGINAL' or a woman calls a male on their use of 'chick'

Many of the people who think this is a joke or a burden or an infringement of their 'free speech' seem to not realize it is just plain 'polite'

[bearfartinthewoods]

19. i like the concept of being socially concious better

it takes away the nasty connection to politics and better reflects the original concept...that we be conscious of how words effect society in general.

[VelmaD]

8. I agree about politeness...

and treating people with courtesy is good for your karma.

I don't understand people who don't care if they are offensive. I especially don't understand people who don't care that they are offensive without even thinking about it. I don't want to offend someone on accident. (I save it up for when I want to offend them intentionally. :evilgrin:)

[Trajan]

9. Well said .....

Politeness is what the GOP hate most .....

Rush and his ilk have it wrong: .... they have ABSOLUTE free speech rights, and are free to say ANYTHING they wish: ... but they DONT have the right to deny their fellow citizens the right to disagree with those comments they find objectionable .....

All citizens are free to speak their minds: .. including those who had been gratuitously offended by such speech ....

Those who express racial hatred misrepresent the negative response to their hurtful diatribes as a restriction of speech: ... it isnt ..... Its a freely offered response to the content of such speech ....

[pinerow]

10. Couldn't have put it better my self

nt

[Brian Sweat]

11. Political correctness is a term used to describe what common courtesy

by people who lack it.

[msmcghee]

12. You are right.

PC is going a little bit out of your way not to say things that could be offensive to someone. If that's too much trouble for someone - then you have to assume they either don't give crap who they offend or they intend to be offensive just out of meanness.

Either way I see that as a far more offensive.

[jarab]

15. PC has morphed into "social perfection"

It goes far beyond racial, sexual, and ethnic statements.
I don't like the "term" PC as it's interpreted. Many people are stamped as politically incorrect who aren't generally that way. PC has been stretched to include everything another doesn't like - or used as a fallacious argument to counter another's argument.

The term appears to be the property of the left only. I know that I have hesitated often in putting forth an opinion on certain "sensiitive" issues such as IP for fear of ignorantly hurting someone's feelings or violating one of a myriad of undefined PC rules.

One can put forth the PC rule on a whim when the valid arguments are exhausted. In that respect, being totally PC in all matters is a deterrent to open discussion. I would suppose one could argue that opining against "political correctness" is in itself un-PC. You can't win against the proponents of what I call "social perfections" - since it extends far beyond politics and simple correctness.

I have some difficuly tolerating those who are PC police since they remind me so much of Bill Bennett - Mr Virtue. Who among us is so perfect (correct) as to conclude that others of us are so imperfect? Not me. I can see clearly when one has obvious prejudices and biases. I have to give the benefit of the doubt in those other instances of possible indisgressions.

We can cry "Wolf" too often on political correctnesses - and never be heard in those instances which are really really important. I suppose the gist is that some sh*t "you" consider worthy of political correctness doesn't mean a thing to the huge majority of "others" not similarly situated (as you) - and, in the larger picture, hurts no one. We will never satisfy everyone !! Is that the goal of being PC?
None of us is "socially perfect" enough to condemn others except in the most obvious cases.
jmho
...O...

[undergroundpanther]

17. Pc

Isn't this whole argument about what is verbally abusive?
A bully hates to be told to put a leash on his tounge because he has problems with how he relates to other people. It chafes because he likes to be in control and set the terms of relationdships for his agendas and his attention seeking and his show.His worldveiew is blinkered by us and thems,carrots and sticks,win or lose..He has a conduct disorder.Conduct disorders come in a continuum of severity.Outright serial killer sociopaths are on one end-of this spectrum,verbally abusive callous ambitious competitive domineering people on the other.
A bully hates being told not to bully people.And bullies when thier motives are outed are ashamed of it .Especially when the surrounding culture gives them no comfort or excuses for thier cruelties and offers no agreeement with thier chosen abusive actions either by chiming in with the bully or passively standing by while the bully cruellty tears a person down.
Top me Pc-is about calling a bully a bully.
It's only the bully who chooses to act that way, In my own observation,non-conduct disordered people don't seem to have this overweening desire to abuse speech and dominate others and force them into conformity with thier wishes or designs.

[starroute]

18. Political correctness goes way beyond ordinary politeness

When my son was at college, he was constantly running up against it.

At one point, a couple of women at a nearby college in town were dragged into some bushes and raped. My son's college was well out in the countryside and had never had an incident of that sort, but there were strong demands among the student body for every conceivable counter-measure, from installing additional lighting and having the entire campus brightly lit all night long to keeping the dorms locked at all times so that it would be impossible to even visit a friend in another dorm without calling ahead to make sure somebody would be there to let you in.

My son stood up at the campus assembly and suggested that some of these proposals were over-the-top reactions to a problem that had not been shown to exist at their college, that they would diminish the quality of life on campus for everyone, and that there were simpler and less intrusive ways of increasing security.

The reaction he got was a hailstorm of disapproval. He was told that he was "insensitive" -- that the real problem was not whether anyone had ever been raped on campus, or was ever likely to be raped on campus, but whether female students might worry about being raped on campus. And that anything that made them feel safer was worth doing. (And also that as a guy he couldn't possibly understand.)

It's that sort of transference from legitimate issues to "sensitivity" issues that bothers me about political correctness. For example, I see racist or sexist jokes and language as generally unacceptable -- but only when they are used to endorse ongoing racist or sexist behavior, or to set up social groupings where certain individuals are excluded or subordinated. I do not approve of censorship of historical materials just because it might bother someone to be reminded that a hundred years ago our culture was blatantly racist.

There is a big difference between political correctness and common decency, and I'm on the side of common decency.

[LWolf]

20. I don't know about PC.

I don't think we all define it the same way. I do know about courtesy/civility/manners. I'll tell you about the gasket I blew this week. You tell me: PC, or courtesy/civility/manners, or both. What was I upset about? What was I acting on?

This incident, or set of incidents, happened with 5th graders. Ten-year-olds.

A black student stood up in the middle of a work period and shouted at a hispanic student, "Well, you cheat on yo mama!" The hispanic student shouted back. "Yo mama" insults were flying.

This hispanic student is a known instigator...I spend way too much time policing the disruption and manipulation he inflicts on the people around him. And in every case, it is always the other person's fault. He is always the innocent victim. He is a master at quiet, unnoticed provocation.

It turns out that this classroom incident was a continuation of a lunchtime playground confrontation, which included threats of physical violence and racial epithets. I'm not on duty at lunch. Apparently the playground supervisors missed this.

The hispanic student accuses the black student in question, and another black student, of calling him a "nigger." The black students say that they used this word in response to the hispanic student calling them the same name. The hispanic student denies that he ever said the word. Since it is a lunchtime playground incident, it is all hearsay. No witnesses.

I tell all 3 students that the word "nigger" will not be used in our room or on our campus, ever, for any reason. And that I consider the "yo mama" remarks to be just as disrespectful. And that I will not allow disrespect of any kind, no matter what words may or may not be used. The same goes for physical threats.

Then I give them all office referrals and suspend them from school for the maximum allowed time. 3 days.

PC? Not PC? Manners? What's your take?