Will the Democratic Party Implode in 2004?

[bhunt70]

I sure hope not. Hopefully the divide between hardline Dean-o's and hardline Clarkies (and their antithesis) is something local to DU and not the party as a whole. I've heard all kinds of stuff like Clark being a rove project and republican plant.

We are doing all the dirty work for the republicans, how convenient it is to give them ammo to use against us, the Democrats.

I just have a feeling that much like always, the democrats will splinter and dilute itself, and not realize that this is really not a fight for the democratic nomination, but a fight for the presidency. Whoever gets the nod should get our full support because Bush is the real enemy (there goes my fbi job).

It sickens me to hear "I'll never vote for him because of XYZ."...if thats how you want it then when the vote comes around just stay home or better yet, vote for bush and put the nail inthe coffin.

If the democratic party splinters itself again, then it's the end for us. If we can't rally and put aside our differences in opinion to get Bush out then we really are a feeble party. Quite sad that a great and illustrious party has the chance to go down the tubes based on some of the crap I hear here.

Republicans at least know how to stick together and band together and roll like some great juggernaut. It's the ONE lesson we could learn from them.

Like I said previously, I hope the splintering is localized to DU in some strange anomolous way and isn't a reflection of the party as a whole (which I haven't noticed to be the case yet).

Edited for spelling.

[Pale Blue Dot]

1. No.

[eleny]

3. You took the word right off my fingertips

[Cha]

2. I would think the Question would be "Will the repugs Implode in

2004?" they are the ones who are drowning like rats on a doomed ship.

[bhunt70]

4. yes I agree, but at least they stick together for the most part.

So far the dems are holding it together also, Im just worried that it will end the way it seems to do so often.

[rucky]

5. Need Some Reassurance?

www.cspan.org
click
Democratic National Committee Fall Meeting

They're finally getting their shit together.

[bhunt70]

9. yeah I listened to it this morning.

Good stuff. I do need a bit of reassurance...call it a confidence builder and guarded enthusiasm. My wife and I were about to move to another country when bush started thinking it was cool to go off killing and invading. I doubt we'll stick around if he gets another term.

[Tippy]

10. No

<"They're finally getting their shit together">

This is true....they finally realized it was the voters who gave them their job and the voters can take it away...

[madmax]

6. No way - we're gonna ride the wave, baby!

:evilgrin:

[Ramuscule]

7. No. Democrats have made great headway this week....

We successfully submarined Arnold with that expose in the LA Times, we successfully got Bush on the hotseat by putting out the 'Leakgate' info, we successfully got Rush fired from ESPN. We will be in great shape to lead America in 2004, because we are second to none in digging up stuff about the other side. People will be inspired to vote for us.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. The Repukes are doing all the inspiring

inspiring people to RUN from their house of ill repute. We haven't even got into slapping down Tom Delay and his Texas re-districting power grab.

[Wapsie B]

8. Part of this infighting

is a natural part of life within the Democratic Party. We are a collection of individuals here. We do not surrender that individuality when we become a part of this political movement. That individuality can and does bring about a clash of views, with each side as passionate about their position as the other. I wish you could go to an Iowa Caucus and see that in action.

The other factor is that there are paid gop operatives actively trolling this board, creating disruption and discord.

My question is not when will the Democratic Party implode but rather when will the neo-conservative movement take the gop into a watery grave?

[piece sine]

16. Is it you?

Are you, actually, one of the paid GOP dissemblers, hiding behind the accusation? Like it's the last place we'd look. I'm always suspicious of those who, methinks, protest-est too much.

[Wapsie B]

17. Hey you got me.

Just an angry Protestant trying to make a living.

[bhunt70]

19. me?

uh, nope. I come from a long line of virginia democrats. My grandfather was even named after woodrow wilson and my father named after him...

[rucky]

21. That's It! Nobody Leaves this Forum 'Til We Snuff Out the Mole!

I say it's THIS MAN ------->

[caledesi]

20. Exactly, BWAWOL! I am a Dean supporter, but when it comes time

to vote ABB (anyone but Bush).

[seventhson]

11. You are TOTALLY WRONG

You said:

"It sickens me to hear "I'll never vote for him because of XYZ."...if thats how you want it then when the vote comes around just stay home or better yet, vote for bush and put the nail in the coffin."

IMHO This battle is about the PRIMARIES.

I will NEVER vote for Clark or KERRY in the PRIMARIES because I believe they are too damn REPUBLICAN for me.

Fighting AGAINST a socalled Democrat like Clark or Kerry is a damn good idea in my opinion.

So I think that saying we will NEVER vote for someone in the primaries is VERY DEMOCRATIC!!!


Screw Kerry and Clark.

If you are a Democrat

vote for the new Progressive Democrats

NOT KERRY OR CLARK


Support Dean Kucinich Braun Edwards Gephardt or even Sharpton


NOT the Republican-Dems like Kerry or Clark

[NewYorkerfromMass]

13. Edwards voted for the war.

so how the hell can you support him? and Dean is a new Progressive Democrat? :shrug:

[bhunt70]

14. well...

I don't know how I can be totally wrong about a feeling I've had but I understand your sentiment. I do know that the primaries shouldn't be a walk in the park, its where we really find out where all the candidates stand.

Thats great, but I actually was talking about the Presidency, and if you (for example) would actually support a candidate that you fought so vehemently against in the primary race or would you find some other candidate than the Democratic nominee.

[The Magistrate]

26. Still, Mr. Son

Supposing it emerges that the Party's nominee is, say, Gen. Clark: would you vote for him in the general election?

Even in the primary battle, it is better to talk up your own candidate than to tear down another. That can provide the enemy with ammunition, later.

The competition between the candidates during the primary should considt in displaying how they will attack the current administration, and it is on the basis of the effectiveness of these attacks that the decision whould be made.

[Old and In the Way]

15. Don't you worry about the Democrats, my friend.

Democrats aren't afraid to debate. We value principles, content, and ideas. The fact that we have 9-10 candidates vying for the nomination means we have a great debate and vitality in our Party. Personally, I love 'em all....any one of them would be superior skills of leadership and bring America's priorities to the forefront.

Ask your self a few questions-

* Who won by 1/2 million votes in 2000? (Supreme COurt be damned)
* How many Democrats will vote for Bush this time?
* What % of Independents are going to vote for Bush this time?
* How many Republicans will vote for a Democrat this time?
* How many Republicans won't vote?

What has this administration accomplished?

* Asleep at the wheel on 9/11/01
* Squashed the 9/11 investigation
* 2 Tax cuts for the rich, a $450BB deficit, maybe a $2TT drain on the US Treasury and 3 MM people have lost their jobs.
* Misleadership on the War on Terror -
* A war against Iraq based on cooked intel, 100s of Americans dead, Tens of thousands of innocent Iraqs killed and maimed.
* No WMD
* No energy policy vision that will get us out of oil, because it's a key segment of Republican Party
* War Profiteering at levels unseen ever in America
* Outing of CIA agents and endangering our national security to protect their political interests.

No, once we choose our nominee, watch how solid our focus becomes...I guarantee you that there will be surge of Democratic voters and activism in 2004, the likes you've never seen. We will have a supercharged internet network that will provide a vehicle for knowledge and activism that was dormant in 2000....the bad news is just beginning, expect even more truth to awaken the masses over the next 12 months. The aggregated 4 year results of Republican mismangement and malfeasance will create a Democratic voter turnout making the results impossible to freep....

[dweller]

23. all that needs to be said

:kick:
is in your post.

dp

[Zorra]

25. I agree completely, but

it goes without saying that our biggest threat is reptilican owned evoting devices and ballot counting. We could cast 20,000,000 more votes for a dem and still lose the election if we don't get this problem solved.

[Gringo]

18. NO. IT WILL NOT.

Although the DLC may be somewhat marginalized (hopefully eventually ostracized). Contrary to popular belief, I don't think the Clarkies identify with the DLC much more than the Deanies. I think we will be super unified after the nomination, I will enthusianstically support for president Anybody But Bush or Lieberman.

I'd like to see McAuliffe replaced before this year is out. his leadership since the late 90's has been atrocious and incredibly out of touch. If we get real leadership (Ron Brown?) we will be on the right track.

[dd123]

22. The party has to become responsive to the people in the

party.

If they can't do that, what good are they anyway?

I feel like they just take us for granted just because we can't vote for Bush.

In a way, Al Sharpton speaks for me.

I want to SLAP the donkey.

[JCMach1]

24. If we lose, I think we will see things fall apart

pretty rapidly.

We HAVE to retake the WH or Congress.

[Lexingtonian]

27. Yes, Democrats do hang the dirty laundry out in public

As you can tell from the previous comments, our basic problem is the power trip a part of the Dean support is on. These folks have acquired omniscience- e.g. Kerry, whose voting record is far more liberal than Dean's, is "a Republican" or some such excuse which probably translates to 'isn't giving people like ME a power trip' in plain English. This omniscience curiously never admits that Dean consistently comes out worst in polling against Bush of the major candidates, and that Rove prefers them as the evidently least wise of possible opponents.

The sad part of this power trip is that it's far more about taking power away from other Democrats, at least in these stages. (Who ever cared about that malign conspiracy called the DLC before this, when reality always admitted that the DLC is simply about keeping a second party for voters to go to in the South?) And as such this power fixation really is part of the pathology of political disunity and minority status rather than a fix. No other candidate's supporters are so quick to malign others, to assert their group's and their leader's infallibility, or to admit their basic mediocrity, and to pretend to intra-Party entitlement (aka 'revolution').

I certainly hope this authoritarian superiority streak has peaked and breaks down further.

I personally don't expect all the conservative Clark support to stick around until Election Day. But as long as he pries away a significant number of swing voters from Bush who don't fall back, it's a good thing he's in.

But other than that, things are peachy. It's still quite a way to the primaries and I think the acrimony is past its zenith. But we may be through the worst already.