Do we really want Impeachment?

[tallahasseedem]

I know alot of us want impeachment and Bush to be thrown out, but do we really? If Bush is impeached, Cheney is next in line. Yeah, yeah, I know he is "really" in charge. But lets think about it. President Bush if frightening enough, but can we handle a President Cheney?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. I think about this a lot. n/t

[tallahasseedem]

4. Welcome to a fellow Tallahasseean!!!

:hi:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

39. THANKS! I've been lurking for months. n/t

[livetohike]

10. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Imagevision]

64. Does anyone think for a second Bush is running the show? So..

If Bush is impeached? with Cheney visibly running the show what would change? -- other then not being humiliated and pissed off everytime you saw Bush's mug...> a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y nothing!

At least if Cheney was visible we would have eliminated the "middleman" and take the fight straight home to the perpatraitor, Cheney!

Cheney wouldn't have all these disapperaing days made available to him no longer and the stress, weight? -- Go F--- Yourself would resign due to health issues.

Bush was never meant to be anything more then a voice for those capitalizing on the war in Iraq, tax cuts big biz healthcare, SS.etc...


http://downingstreetmemo.com/

[calimary]

67. Welcome to DU! Answer: YES. We DO want an IMPEACHMENT.

Yes, we do. Accountability, for one thing. Sending a signal (and a sucker-punch to the GOP - spewing Loser-Stench all over them, too).

Besides, nothing would be more fun than seeing cheney take all the heat, up front and center stage.

He is happiest manipulating behind the scenes, in the shadows, under cover, behind closed doors, in the darkness WHERE NOBODY CAN SEE WHAT HE'S UP TO, and where he's an afterthought - out of sight, out of mind. If he were to inherit the "throne" because of a bush impeachment (and likely removal from office if it comes to that - where the GOP-dominated House of Reps finally feels motivated to go this far), it would probably be EXCELLENT karma for him. He's pretty unpopular, at any rate, and doesn't have the aw-shucks, good-ol'-boy, warm-fuzzy manufactured PR image that bush does. Not only that, but his ticker probably wouldn't stand it for long. Soon enough, you'd see the resignation announcement or the "I won't seek reelection" drivel because he "wants to spend more time with the family." If that happens, it'll be bullshit. Family, shmamily. He'll be wanting relief from the heat, like a snake that wants to be back in the grass. And then, unless this happens after next year's elections in which that maggot dennis hastert will lose his speakership, we'd have a DEM in control.

And even if we don't, or it happens before then and we get hastert anyway, he too is damaged goods. He's horribly unphotogenic (which is as superficial as all-get-out, but it counts, powerfully, as shameful as that is). And he's as ugly on the inside as he is on the outside. He's a cold-hearted, tightwad, meanie. There will be more than a few people who won't let him forget the heartless, callous "bulldoze New Orleans" statement he made and then had to retract (FLIP FLOP!!! FLIP FLOP!!!). He also likes to keep a low profile so nobody sees much of what he's up to. So he won't have a fun time, either, if he's thrust, forceably, to the front of the line.

If it's NOT hastert but the player to be named later because a president cheney would pick his own veep, I submit that even THAT individual will be damaged goods. Just a place-holder, like Gerald Ford was after Nixon, until a Democrat comes back into the White House and starts setting things straight and cleaning up the mess.

And if it's Giuliani, well, his luster isn't what it used to be, either. 9/11 happened a long time ago by now, and people forget. Especially when it's HUGELY trumped by Hurricane Katrina, AND when there will, no doubt, be people who say - "where WERE you, Rudy, when we needed you!??!?!?!?!?!" Many Americans, especially voters, have embarrassingly short-term memories. AND, he's got one helluva messy divorce behind him complete with cheating on his wife, and he's pro-choice. It would throw "the base" (BTW - doesn't al Qaeda supposedly translate into "the base"??????) of religious extremists and other fundamentalist whack jobs into utter turmoil and some of 'em would probably sit this one out rather than have to vote against a republi-CON they really couldn't support ideologically.

Long, windy way of saying - let the IMPEACHMENT games begin. I submit it would be a whale of a lot of fun for us around here!

[tallahasseedem]

74. Good points...

these people are just plain evil.

[Lochloosa]

68. Welcome Granny

Born and raised in Tally...god I miss Bullwinkles...

[shraby]

2. And then impeach Cheney.

Halliburton is a good reason.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

40. Here's my fear..

we spend so much negative energy bringing them down that we neglect to work together to get a decent slate together for 08. Remember, Carter was elected in a reaction to Watergate, but he only lasted one term and then... well you know.

[Just Me]

55. Hence, we must DEMAND FULL ACCOUNTABILITY,...this time.

THIS TIME, all those involved in the corporacratic circle of treason MUST MUST MUST be confronted with "personal accountability" for its abuses and PAY TIME TO SOCIETY FOR THEIR CRIMES AGAINST THE PEOPLE, THE STATE, THE NATION.

We failed to convict the whole of the conspirators in the Nixon regime. We failed to convict the whole of the conspirators in the Reagan regime. We cannot fail to convict this regime. They are a "body" that MUST be held fully and legally accountable for their abuses against this nation, our citizens and humanity (they have been economically suppressing peoples around the earth for decades -- global barons and fascists who CREATED the Taliban and al Qaida and Saddam and every freakin' monstrous regime touched by their hands). Until we conquer that cancer, once and for all, it will only infest and grow, again and again.

When we find ourselves in the position to do it, we MUST defeat this cancer, once and for all,...or, at least, for the time necessary for humanity to be strong enough to WAGE A CURE.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

60. I admire your passion. n/t

[skooooo]

3. Answer: Yes.

[autorank]

5. No "impeachment" both of them are "resigned"

That's how it's done to preserve some semblance of order where there is very little.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3482593

[tallahasseedem]

14. But then isnt Hastert next in line...

I shudder to even speculate.

[berni_mccoy]

19. You can not REWARD FAILURE

By not impeaching that's what you do.

Hastert will NEED the help of the Democrats to succeed as President... things will be MUCH BETTER without the CABAL we have in power now.

We are talking about removing a FASCIST group from power. It NEEDS DOING.

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Hastert took a big ol load of payola from the Turks.. He wont't make

it to the Oval Office.

------------------------------------------------------
Ditch Bu$h and save the Gulf: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=22507&mesg_id=22507

Then save the nation!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[autorank]

25. No, they pick a consensus VP, e.g Powell, just like Ford during Nixon

Remember, the got rid of Agnew, quickly; putin Ford; then got rid of Nixon. Everybody resigned. It's a matter of the powers that be, the mega financial interests deciding this guy is too risky. He clearly is, so, hey, what was that Nixon thing, "oh yea, we dump the VP (close Cheney aid indicted) and put in Powell, then Bush gets a real big head ache and resigns"

:evilgrin:

[zydeco]

79. Take back the House and then Hastert ain't no more! n/t

[autorank]

85. "Free & Fair Elections" Yes, Mr. KOS, there really is election fraud!

When the know it all DEM know it all's get their heads out of their behinds on election fraud and shout and scream, we'll have a chance. They can't steal it if there is an array of pre-emptive steps well in advance of the election to stop the fraud.

What on earth more does anyone need to see than the monstrosity of NOLA to understand that these folks are capable of anything, simply anything.

You had better believe that the people out there who are stunned by * and his Iraq, NOLA, etc. stupidity sure as hell believe it was stolen.

"What the Times and almost all of the major media refuse to address is the fact that there has, to date, been no credible counter-argument put forward to counter the loud and vociferous assertions of numerous computer experts who insist that electronic voting machines can be rigged. And that if they can be rigged, they are… because if you leave the bank vault open, sooner or later someone is going to rob it."

Lynn Landes

Want to see who owns the machines? Look here:
http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingMachineCompanies.htm

[livetohike]

6. Yes, we want Bush impeached

Cheney's heart won't be able to take being in the forefront.

[teknomanzer]

36. I think when he's hiding out...

they have him hooked up to some kind of machine to keep that metallic heart of his beating... wouldn't be able to do that if he were prez.

[livetohike]

61. I think you're right on that

something is very strange,imo. I don't think he was on vacation. I think he was in the hospital and that is why he was no where to be seen for various photo ops.

[berni_mccoy]

7. The entire administration can be impeached

Cheney is as culpable as Bush is on this and many more things... his B.S. about WMD is enough in and of itself.

One might say that this would be too much destabilization to our gov't to impeach too many... I say B.S. to that... how stable are we RIGHT NOW? I think we all know the answer to that question and to let the BUFOONS in power keep screwing up for 3 more years... NO F'n WAY!

[autorank]

27. Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wiley]

42. The thought of three more years of corruption, lies, incompetence,

dishonor, and defilement of the principles that make America great is too much to contemplate. Now would be a perfect time to impeach Bush. Americans are in no mood to tolerate Cheney at this point, either. Oh, and isn't it about time that Limbaugh was thrown in jail for being the whacked out, hate-mongering, drug dealing law breaking POS that he is?

[FlemingsGhost]

8. Hell yes! Accountability has to START somewhere.

Cheney will get his, in good time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. I want to impeach the WHOLE LOT

read article four, section two, you can bag all, yes even chenney, in one fell swoop

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. It would mean he'd have to come out in the open

with what he is doing. And he'd have some problem with nominating another extremist for VP, I think-it would have to be someone they want to groom to take over the presidency in 2008. Ugh. That thought alone is enough to give someone pause.

[electropop]

12. They are co-conspirators and must be impeached simultaneously.

They will both end up on the ash heap of history.

[katinmn]

13. Yes.

[rumpel]

15. Yes, the whole administration, and Hastert for his immediate response

to the disaster.

[Independent_Liberal]

16. Let's go after Bugman and Hastert first, then impeach Cheney, Bush...

...and the rest of the lot.

[Tower]

17. Absolutely. As you said, Cheney is in charge anyway, so why not remove

Mr. Cult-of-Personality and put the the real face of the Bush Administration on display.

It's like wen you move a big rock. You know how there are all those disgusting, slimy little things living underneath? You know how they squirm around and dry up as the sunlight hits them? It's sort of like that.

Impeach the idiot.

[Tiggeroshii]

46. Agreed.

I like that analogy :)

[VADem11]

18. Hopefully, we'll have President Pelosi

If we impeach both Bush and Cheney after the 06 elections (which hopefully we will win), then pelosi will be speaker and will take over.

[tallahasseedem]

21. Hey, I like that idea!!!

President Pelosi.

[ispeculate]

22. If they both get impeached or...

if the grim reaper shows up for #2, then what?? Speaker of the house?

[Tiggeroshii]

49. The order is Vice Pres, Speaker of the house

and then I think it's the house majority leader and the house minortiy leader. I'm just not sure that Pelosi would be the Majority Leader or the speaker of the house if the Dems are able to regain the house.

[VADem11]

59. After the speaker of the house the order is

the president pro tem of the senate (Ted Stevens) then all the secretaries of the different cabinet departments in the order in which they were founded starting with sec. of state except DHS (DHS hasn't been added becuase it's too new). If we take back the house, Pelosi will be elected speaker and not majority leader. The DSCC even has a website called speakerpelosi.com.

[Tiggeroshii]

72. Thanks.

So then the majority leader is re elected when we(God willing) take back the house?

[Tiggeroshii]

47. oh my God that would be cool.Haha

I like :-)

[annabanana]

20. well.......

hung, drawn and quartered seems to have out of fashion, along with keel-hauling.

[democracyindanger]

23. A Bush impeachment would neuter the entire GOP

Even if Cheney takes over, every GOP seat would be scrambling to cover their own ass. All of Chimpy's pet projects--estate tax, tax cuts for the top 2%, SS privatization, all of it--would immediately begin withering on the vine.

[CityZen-X]

26. Impeach The Whole!!

[hardrainfallin]

34. I keep thinking the MAGNITUGE

of this event alone is SO unprecented in our history (in so many ways); this, combined with the remaining scandals--from Plame to Abu Ghraib to DSM and Iraq War, to "lost" Halliburton money, god the list goes on, most of them equally UNPRECEDENTED....and weighing in at 30% approval in the ratings....there's got to be SOME possibility to demand a complete OVERHAUL (i.e. OVERTHROW) of this regime.

I'm not a lawyer, a politican, no one with any understanding of the legal issues involved, but, for god's sake--how much damage does a pResident and his closet get to inflict before the people have a legal option for "recall"?

The whole LOT(T) of them has to go--getting Bush, Brown, chertoff, and Rumsfeld out of there might set off a chain reaction whereby the country would revert to pre SCROTUS installation and put the winner of the 2000 popular vote in office.

State of Emergency Reversal of Supreme Court Decision or something, I dunno.

[CityZen-X]

45. Here Is The Dunno

arm yourself! Get ready for th mother of bad dreams. These corporate demons do not care about you or me what so ever! Do I have to give examples!? Get ready for the revolution! Those who wave the flag of non residence will be mowed down by the programmed troops of Iraq!

[hardrainfallin]

51. If I get to that point....

I'm likely to be talking to HST face to face.

I'll cling to the hope for a while longer before I resort to the gun.

Must admit, viewing the situation as outsider to the inside of whatever-non-human entity resides in the physical body of a certain worldy unpopular thug (who shall remain unnamed), I've wondered why he has considered the HST route as an exit strategy.

If I were in HIS shoes, that would be looking like a pretty sweet alternative at this point.

Oh, that's right. He's not too good with exit stragies: can't get out of Iraq, couldn't get out of Crawford, can't save himself from Katrina's wrath--but he sure knows how to get himself IN, doesn't he, starting with knowing how to get in office.

[calimary]

69. Agreed! Welcome to DU!

Glad you're here to help us work toward making this a reality!

[hardrainfallin]

77. Unlike the president,

I don't think we're going to be able to affect these changes "on our own" ; friend just sent me this petition to resist undermining the UN; I never know whether online petitions help or hinder and don't know how to check their legitimicacy, so am not making a separate post of it, but thought I'd get people's take on it first. Is this something worth pursuing?


http://www.demaction.org/dia/organizations/IPS/petition.jsp?petition_KEY=119&t=fpif.dwt

"Resist U.S. efforts to undermine internationalism!
Inviting organizational sign-ons: We call on governments around the world to resist the U.S. effort to undermine the United Nations, and instead to stand with civil society and the poor and marginalized of the world in a global recommitment to defend international law and reclaim our United Nations.

Initial Organizational Endorsers:

Action Aid
Foreign Policy In Focus
Global Exchange
Perugia Assisi March for Justice and Peace
Tavola della Pace
The Italian Coordination of Local Authorities for Peace and Human Rights
United for Peace and Justice

As we advance towards the UN World Summit, citizen groups from around the world, including the United States, are gravely concerned that the United States is undermining the Summit outcome in a blatant attempt to undercut the United Nations and ensure the break down of internationalism.

We representatives of civil society appreciate that the United Nations is the focal point of international law and remains vital for building our global efforts towards peace, prosperity and safety for all peoples. Recent U.S. proposals to change the draft UN Summit document will not reform the United Nations, but rather will mean abandoning the international commitment to end poverty, forsaking serious environmental protection, sidelining women's rights and other human rights, giving up on the promise to end the scourge of war, and ultimately undermining the very authority and legitimacy of the United Nations.

We call on governments around the world to resist this U.S. campaign to undermine the United Nations, and instead to stand with civil society and the poor and marginalized of the world in a global recommitment to defend international law and reclaim our United Nations."

[GreenArrow]

28. Impeachment?

How about indictment.

[lindisfarne]

29. How far down do we have to impeach - Bush, Cheney, Hastert -

before we get to a competent individual. Who follows speaker of the house?

The Presidential Succession Act of 1947, signed by President Harry Truman, changed the order again to what it is today. The cabinet members are ordered in the line of succession according to the date their offices were established.

Prior to the ratification of the 25th Amendment in 1967, there was no provision for filling a vacancy in the vice presidency. When a president died in office, the vice president succeeded him, and the vice presidency then remained vacant. The first vice president to take office under the new procedure was Gerald Ford, who was nominated by Nixon on Oct. 12, 1973, and confirmed by Congress the following Dec. 6.

The Vice President Richard Cheney
Speaker of the House John Dennis Hastert
President pro tempore of the Senate1 Ted Stevens
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice
Secretary of the Treasury John Snow
Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales
Secretary of the Interior Gale A. Norton
Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns
Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez2
Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao3
Secretary of Health and Human Services Mike Leavitt
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Alphonso Jackson
Secretary of Transportation Norman Yoshio Mineta
Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman
Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings
Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson
Secretary of Homeland Security4 Michael Chertoff
NOTE: An official cannot succeed to the Presidency unless that person meets the Constitutional requirements.
1. The president pro tempore presides over the Senate when the vice president is absent. By tradition the position is held by the senior member of the majority party.
2. Carlos Gutierrez was born in Cuba and is ineligible.
3. Elaine Chao was born in Taiwan and is ineligible.
4. In late July 2005, the Senate passed a bill moving the Homeland Security secretary to number 8 on the list. The bill is awaiting House approval.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0101032.html

edited to add: a few of the names above are out of date I think ...

[calimary]

82. Welcome to DU, lindisfarne!

(Are you a Lindisfarne fan?)

Glad you're here. Thanks for the info.

IMPEACHMENT - NOW!!!

Visualize...

Visualize...

Visual-eyes... (I'm trying to "kind of catapult the propaganda." How'm I doin'? :D)

Visual-eyes on the prize, guys...

Visualize IMPEACHMENT!!!!
Then go DO something about it.

[Cleita]

30. Hands down yes. Bush and Cheney would only be the beginning.

A congressional investigation would bring all the crimes they are committing out in the open and none of the major players would be left standing.

[Just Me]

31. IMPEACH!! INDICT!! IMPRISON!!! NOW!!!

THE WHOLE REGIME MUST BE IMPEACHED, INDICTED & IMPRISONED!!! THEY ARE A WHOLE,...A CONSPIRING WHOLE, ACTING TOGETHER TO BETRAY, DEFRAUD AND EXPLOIT THIS COUNTRY!!!

[cmdrxog]

57. Aside from and throw away the key

I think that you've said it all, and very concisely too, way past time for change.

[newyawker99]

86. Hi cmdrxog!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[melody]

32. it literally couldn't be any worse than this...that's my .02

[tallahasseedem]

48. You would be right about that.

Its going downhill fast.

[TahitiNut]

50. I've had that thought 55 times since January 2001.

Every month I think they've reached the bottom of low-life behavior. And every month the next month proves me wrong.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. Hell yes. nt.

[Lecky]

35. Yes we do...period.

:)

[stepnw1f]

37. YES... The Whole Administration nt

[nonconformist]

38. Yes. It's a start. nt

[Baconfoot]

41. It doesn't matter what we want.It's a constitutional obligation to impeach

someone who has committed High crimes or misds.

Criminals are not to remain in the highest office in the land if we discover that they are criminals.

Simple. Elegant. I like it.

The question shouldn't be about whether or not we can handle Cheney. The question should be how much respect do we have for our country and for our laws. The highest law of the land calls for not letting the country be headed by a gang of thugs.

Cheney should also be impeached because he too is a vicious criminal with no care for anything but the advancement of his own interest and the interests of those "lucky" enough to be his "friends."

[banana republican]

43. FROM NIXON'S GRAVE!!!

GET CHENEY FIRST!!!

HAVE THE SENATE APPOINT A VP TO FILL THE REST OF BUSHES TERM & THEN IMPEACH BUSH.

WORKED WITH NIXON...

[MadisonProgressive]

44. 2 for 1 special is at hand!

[mopinko]

71. no reason not to impeach both

there is nothing in the constitution that prohibits a 2 for 1. president denny hastert. heck we could likely get him, too. taking bribes from turkish drug lords must be grounds. i imagine once we get cranked up, we could mow them all down.

[porphyrian]

52. We need Congress back before we can impeach anybody.

And we'll need our votes to count to get back Congress next year.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

53. I want both of them Impeached, Removed, Tried and Then On To Gitmo! nt

[killbotfactory]

54. The next administration should hold them indefinitely without trial

Think they'll learn?

[tinrobot]

56. Impeach them all.

Clean sweep.

[MellowOne]

58. We have ground to impeach the whole bunch.

Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld all of 'em!

[onecent]

62. If B* was gone and Cheney was our Prez I think America would

REVOLT. I think America would GO ABSOLUTELY BALLISTIC just looking at this fat bald bastard in the news with his black limos and saluting the marines when he gets of the helicopter.

I would barf daily.

[deacon]

63. Yes, we desperately need a little--we aren't safe at all with this crew nt

[calimary]

83. RED ALERT! EXCELLENT new talking point here:

To justify IMPEACHMENT when you're speaking of it with anyone... all you need to say, really, is "we aren't safe at all with this crew."

Thank you, deacon! WUNNNNNNNderful!!!

"We aren't safe at all with this crew!"

And you'd be truthtelling, beyond any doubt.

[tallahasseedem]

87. Definately a good point.

the whole gotta go.

[Lochloosa]

65. Yes, I really do want impeachment hearings...

I want to see the republicans stand in front of the nation and defend their president. I want wall to wall coverage. I want to watch it all. I want to stand in the cafe at work with all the other pucks that I have fought with over the last five years have to listen to the house debate what a piece of shit bush is. Your goddam right I want him impeached. Then when he is impeached, I want to watch Frist preside over his trial. ok...i'm done

[Individualist]

66. I prefer imprisonment

of the entire cabal.

[electron_blue]

70. I can't see impeaching Bush w/o bringing down Cheney also

They are both guilty of the same crimes.

[stevietheman]

73. Impeach the whole line of succession until we run into somebody...

unimpeachable.

[NNadir]

75. Before Nixon went, Agnew went.

That was for a deal involving trucking and his tenure as a county executive in Maryland.

It pales next to Halliburton, but we will have neither justice or the truth from a Repuke Congress.

I'd love to think we could get rid of them, but that will only happen in a two party state. I frequently quote Stalin: "It doesn't matter how people vote. What matters is who counts the vote."

[Stinky Bushes]

76. I always demand from my Congresspeople that we impeach

Bush and his entire Administration. This would include Cheney. But you know what, for three more years I would much rather deal with Cheney than Bush. Not a good option either way, but at least Cheney can construct a coherent sentence. Anyhow, it's most likely Cheney is pulling the strings anyhow, it would just make it official.

YES - I say CONTINUE to hassle Congress and DEMAND the IMMEDIATE impeachment of Bush and his entire Administration. 1-877-762-8762

[Walt Starr]

78. Not before November 7,2006.

After, we want impeachment first for Cheney and immediately after for Bush, but not a moment sooner.

Of course, I think the articles of impeachment should be introduced as the first order of business for the 110th Congress.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

80. I want ALL of them out of Washington, D. C., asap!!

[New Earth]

81. at least when Cheney speaks

we'd understand what the f*ck he's trying to say.

[FreedomAngel82]

84. The whole group will have to be charged

Including past people in the administration such as Powell and Wolfowitz. And Hasert has some crimes as well as told in the Vanity Fair by Sibel Edmonds.