Did Nagin agree to set himself up by suggesting people return now to NO?

[MoonRiver]

Immediately after this announcement, * and his FEMA henchfolk began "advising" against this foolishness. After looking like an incompetent, uncaring buffoon following Katrina, I suspect * thinks this staged sage advice might somehow gain him a bit of credibility. Plus I don't trust Nagin. He was a Repuke, quite cozyily in bed with the *s, until right before he announced he would run as NO mayor.

[pitohui]

1. ppl want to come home

if you don't understand that, may i respectfully ask where you live

ppl will come back w. or w.out nagin's permission

it is a fait accompli

they will come

if you don't like it, stand out of the way

there are good reasons not to trust nagin (endorsement of jindal for example) but ppl are going back to new orleans

heaven help the man who stands in their way

[MoonRiver]

2. I don't think they should be encouraged to come back

if the water is poisonous, the environment toxic, and the conditions extremely unsafe. :wtf:

[jobycom]

7. Hey, it's New Orleans. Conditions are always like that.

It's not government's decision. People know what's there. But it's their homes. They should be allowed back in.

I can't tell you how angry I was back in Gulfport because I was not allowed to see the destruction along the beach. I grew up there, I helped build it, I spent a lot of money and time and emotions there, and I was told that the town I grew up in was off limits to me. And some of the people telling me hadn't been there as long as I had.

When you face that one day, you'll understand it. The government shouldn't have the right to tell me what I can do with my own body.

[MoonRiver]

9. You're saying conditions are ALWAYS like they are right now in NO???

If so, I beg to differ. From what I've heard the water is undrinkable and the environment is very toxic and unsafe. I don't think people should be kept out, I just think it was foolish to encourage their return so soon. Seems, at the least, that the levees should be fixed and the city drained first.

[jobycom]

11. The title was sarcasm, the rest legite

You said "the water is poisonous, the environment toxic, and the conditions extremely unsafe." New Orleans is known for having high cancer rates because of all the toxic chemical plants and refineries, and also for having a high crime rate.

But my main point was that the people going back know the risks, and they own the land, and they should be allowed in if they want.

[SteppingRazor]

3. I don't think it's any sort of conspiracy...

I think Nagin said what he said, and then the Bush team looked at it as an opportunity to switch some blame -- playing the blame game, if you will ;)

[MoonRiver]

5. Maybe. It just seemed to be such an incredibly stupid statement,

that I wonder. At first I thought it was just propaganda to cover-up and/or minimize the amount of toxins in the NO environment, but then the bushistas started using it for their own political propaganda.

[Norquist Nemesis]

4. Considering Rove is 'coordinating' everything on Bush's behalf

it wouldn't surprise me. It would be interesting (if I had the time) to do a little research and determine which parishes have (R) people elected vs. (D) and then look at the differences in terms of assistance, on the ground analysis, and progress. :)

[jobycom]

6. Nagin is worrying about the rights of the citizens, Bush is trying to

steal approval over the Katrin issue. By urging caution, he can make Nagin seem like the wreckless, irresponsible one, and then use that to change people's opinions of the initial slow response. Plus, by keeping people out of New Orleans, Bush can maintain more control over how it is rebuilt.

Nagin has to face property owners and citizens who are asking why they can't return to their property, why they can't start trying to set up jobs again, especially in parts of the city that aren't as badly damaged.

For the record, I'm on Nagin's side on this. People are taking the attitude that the government has to rebuild New Orleans, but that's not what happens after a hurricane. People move back in, clean up and rebuild their own property, re-open their own businesses. They are the ones vested in all of this, and the sooner they are allowed to start cleaning up and moving on, the sooner New Orleans returns. The same thing happened in Gulfport, Biloxi, et al. That's how rebuilding works.

Bush doesn't want this kind of rebuilding. He wants property to sit unused for longer, to increase the chance the people will abandon it and the developers can take it. He wants businesses to remain closed so corporate cronies can steal their businesses. Bush wants this developed as a master-planned community with ownership going to his rich buddies, and infrastructure being rebuilt to push Bush's political agenda. Some people have mistaken Bush's speach as a New Deal type program, but if you listened, it was really a neocon Fantasyland. School vouchers, no unions, no minimum wage, faith based charity reimbursements-- all of the fascists dream goals right here. Bush's plan to fight poverty and inequality in New Orleans is to make sure the poor and unequal never return.

Nagin is the anti-Bush. He's trying to reopen New Orleans before Bush's plans buy it and kill it.

[marshall]

10. Nagin's competing/conflicting interests

I think Nagin has two interests here that don't necessarily coincide. First he wants to keep his people safe, and second he wants to maintain New Orleans as the city that elected him. To accomplish the second one he has to to get the people back before they get jobs, settle into homes, and establish roots elsewhere. The longer people are out of New Orleans the more likely they are to decide to just stay wherever they are. Then what is Nagin the governor of?

[jobycom]

13. Mayor.

I'm sure you meant to say mayor.

Nagin has a third interest. He loves New Orleans, like all it's residents. He wants to see it returned to what it was before, as much as possible. He wants to see the charm and character of the city return, and that means that the people who create that charm and character have to be the ones to rebuild it.

As for keeping the people safe, of course he wants that, and he is concerned that the lack of infrastructure and of hospital access will cause more problems. But people have to make that decision themselves.

I know it's easy to sit outside of this situation and look at it intellectually, and I say "Nagin is thinking about his career, he's analyzing political realities, people should be kept safe, etc." But believe me, the main driving force here is guttural and primal. Home, identity, family. Nagin and everyone else wants New Orleans to be what it was before. They want it to be home. They want their lives returned. Unless it's happened to you, I can't begin to describe how it feels to see everything you knew growing up wiped away, as if it didn't exist. To wonder whether you will ever see it again. It is more like losing a loved one than I can explain. And I no longer leave in the region--imagine if the loss of your memories was combined with the loss of your home, your job, everything you know. You build up your identity in a city, and suddenly the whole city is gone.

Nagin's political goals are no doubt on his mind, as is his financial welfare, but I believe that most of all he wants his home back. And he recognizes that the rest of the citizens of New Orleans do, too. And that's what he's up to. He wants to be the one to rebuild his home, not BushCo. (I could be wrong, but I've watched him during this whole affair, and he doesn't know how to act, so I believe when I see him break down in tears realizing what's happened that he's sincere.)

[marshall]

15. Mayor Nagin

Thanks for correcting me. New Orleans is so big compared to the tiny spot on the side of the road I live in that it almost seems like a state to me.
I agree with the third interest. For all those reasons swirling in his mind, I think he just sees the city going away like sand in an hourglass. The quicker they can get people back the better they are going to be able to recreate the magic that is New Orleans. I just think as time passes more and more people are going to become attached to wherever they have been relocated and that is one less person in the city as it was.

[hobbit709]

8. Maybe he wants plenty of witnesses

around when the government tries to pull a fast one.

[Connie_Corleone]

12. Yeah, he's setting himself up.

Bushco is already saying that this is Nagin's call and he's in control of asking people to come back into the city. The federal government is covering their butt. When the next hurricane comes and breaches the levees again or people start getting sick from whatever is in the water and air, then Nagin will be blamed.

[Jacobin]

14. The parts that didn't flood badly

are NOT going to get better with 'two more weeks'....the sooner people can go clean up the tree branches, pull wet stuff out of their houses and businesses and start opening some smaller stores, the better.

I've been through several smaller hurricanes with the attendant damage and you just have to go back in, clean up and get going again.

Waiting two weeks or two months is not going to change anything. Plus, people are not going to want to live in tents and relatives houses for much longer.

As to the parts still under a lot of water, he's not letting them back in until it drains, so that doesn't apply.

Besides which, it will make it harder for the 'social engineers' (read Halliburton) to start bulldozing down perfectly good dwellings to make bullshit strip malls and kill the spirit of the city.

[marshall]

16. "Rethinking his decision"

http://www.wtvynews4.com/home/headlines/1726726.html

[MoonRiver]

17. I don't really know what Nagin's notives were, although I am suspicious,

but I'm glad he's made the correct decision. Unfortunately, the media is spinning this, like I predicted, as Nagin's concession to *'s wise counsel.