Where do you think humanity is going?

[antigone382]

Seriously, in what direction do you see humankind and the world itself headed, in the next hundred, thousand, or ten thousand years? Do you see a general trend of progress, and an inevitable evolution towards utopia? Or do you think that we're stupid animals doomed to destroy ourselves and the world as well? I'm interested in what most progressives think about this, and how it affects or is affected by their political, philosophical, and/or religous views (wow, sounded like a question on my freshman English exam :)).

Maybe this is the wrong forum for a thread like this. But since my belief in what the future holds is intimately connected to my political leanings, and I assume others are at least a little like me, I thought I'd throw it here and see what happens.

I have my own very distinct views on this, and I'll gladly share them later on, but for now I'd like to read other DUers' perspectives without their having been colored or altered in any way by my own.

Edit: don't be afraid of rambling (like I do, lol). I'd like to hear your views in detail.

[MadisonProgressive]

1. Right down the old comode!

[antigone382]

5. so you think there is no hope for us all?

What has led you to that belief? How does your being a Liberal--if that's what you choose to call yourself--relate to that viewpoint?

[MadisonProgressive]

8. I can't begin to have hope until we get rid of the neo-cons

which is predicated on fixing the voting processes.

[antigone382]

18. Very true...but all evil empires decline, eventually.

They have to, they can't sustain themselves.

[Syncronaut Seven]

36. Where we're going? Or where we're being led?

The process is not random. Though we all suffer from human shortcomings, Look to who benefits from the decline in social order and chaos.

Exploit human weakness with the force of 100 million snake oil salesmen (US media, propaganda in every pot) society will crack, guaranteed.

[ret5hd]

2. All I know is...

is that Satan has been on the phone ALL WEEK with his handbasket suppliers trying to bump production up to fill backorders.

[antigone382]

6. LOL

I think I know a few people who are on the waiting list!

[FloridaPat]

3. I believe we are at the maturity level for the human race. It's time for

the people of the world to get off their asses, unit for the common good, and take over the reigns of their own destiny. We are watching the end of old plan and the tiniest part of the beginning of a new age for humanity that will astound the planet. The future will be extrememly bright with equal rights for women and minorities, wherever miniorities may be. People will be concerned about nature and conservatism because they are going to realize how much a happy nature makes a happy humanity.

One of my favorite quotes: when the student is ready the teacher will come.

[antigone382]

10. Your views are similar to mine.

Although I think it's going to take a frustratingly long time to get there--particularly for those of us who see how good things could be if we'd just get our sh!t together...I didn't always feel that way, but as I look at history, the evolution of more democratic, egalitarian societies (not that these have been in any way ideal, or even prevalent), and the development of complex political and philosophical ideas over the last thousands of years, further progress is inevitable, assuming no one goes completely nuts and nukes everything (which I don't think will happen).

[FloridaPat]

44. Yes, it will a very long time. Not even decades. But it will happen.

But throughout history, there have been periods of great civilizations. A new one is on the way!

[back2basics909]

4. Progress for sure.

Do not worry! The dark days are about to end and we will IMHO end up with a far more tolerant society. Remember when Thatcher's right wing agenda was show for what it was in England, we had (and are still having) as Conservative free zone for over a decade. For every action there is an equal and opposite reactions.

Us liberals needed this current time to come up with new ideas. And it's my belief we will come out of this stronger. Remember, we liberals always win in the end. They only ever slow us and progress down.

[antigone382]

15. Yes, it seems America is already beginning to wake up.

In America at least, we definitely go through a cycle of progress and regression...with progress always winning out in the end. I wonder how far we'll be able to go before the regression cycle starts again.

[BrklynLiberal]

7. Hell, meet handbasket

We are the virus that this planet is trying rid itself of.

[antigone382]

23. A la Katrina and Rita?

n/t

[Burma Jones]

9. I think we're going down a well-trod path

where a culture wears itself out and diminishes. What remains to be seen is whether this time the culture is the entire planet or just the West. Realistically, I believe that we won our big battle against the Soviets and now we will fade much as the UK has faded since WWII. China is poised to become the second Superpower (as generally recognized - I already see China as a Superpower) and India is not far behind.

There will be a point here in the USA where we will have to figure out how we will divide the shrinking pie. Right now, the powerful are gorging themselves on what's left of the US pie. That will not last.

In the very long run, I believe that natural disasters, war, biology and other such mechanisms will reduce the human population. I believe more in a Post-Apocalyptic future than say the future imagined in the film The Fifth Element - where we just get more and more crowded yet the culture remains largely the same.

[antigone382]

11. Very interesting post, thanks for contributing.

Overall, do you see a trend of the "third world" coming up to an equal level with the western world, or just a few countries getting lucky while the rest continue to suffer in poverty?

[Burma Jones]

17. I see the Third World remaining much the same

only the Chinese will be profiting more from third world exploitation than they currently do. So I would have to go with a lucky few working their way out of abject poverty based on skillful marketing of their nation's natural resources.

[BurtWorm]

12. South

[antigone382]

25. If I may ask (and I'm being totally serious, not snarky, I promise :)

If you believe that we are doomed to decline, what is your motivation for being a liberal, and fighting for the environment, the poor, the oppressed, etc?

[BurtWorm]

27. I have a daughter, for one thing.

I want our generation to leave hers a better, healthier, saner, more peaceful world than was left to us. But the odds are against that happening, at the moment.

[cynatnite]

13. Didn't Vonnegurt say humanity needed to start over? n/t

[meganmonkey]

21. Read Galapogos, if you haven't yet

It's fricking awesome.

I think I spelled it wrong, though :silly:

[porphyrian]

14. That way.

A few of us will go over there, too.

[klyon]

16. right over a cliff

Greed and selfishness will carry us over the edge of a bottomless cliff. I see no signs that this country will not destroy the world with it's brand of capitalism. The environment will kick us in the teeth very soon. These hurricanes are only the beginning. The planet will win. Look for hard times ahead.
Sorry to be negative but that is what I have been seeing since the 70's, we keep marching toward doom.

KL

[antigone382]

20. No apologies necessary; I asked for your opinion.

Even though I'm very hopeful for the future, the effects of pollution, global warming, and the depletion of the Earth's resources are things that worry me a lot. I can only hope that the Earth gives us the chance to mature...but there is no promise of that.

[meganmonkey]

19. Lately I've been thinking that the denial of evolution is indicative of

why we aren't getting anywhere as a species.

I think our potential evolution as a species is more intellectual/spiritual than it is physical. And I think we may be blowing it. At least much of Western society, the US especially.

I think we are, as a species, able to rise above all the material shit and move forward but the very thing that makes that possible also makes it impossible. Free will.

And the fact that so many Americans right now say that evolution is wrong scares the crap out of me. It's like we are DEvolving...

:scared:

[antigone382]

28. Wow, I came to a similar conclusion about evolution this summer.

"I think our potential evolution as a species is more intellectual/spiritual than it is physical. And I think we may be blowing it. At least much of Western society, the US especially."

It's something I've been calling a "conscious evolution." It's kind of complex and boring, and it involves what I call the definition of "self" as it relates to self-preservation.

I see the denial of evolution today as similar to the denial of astronomy 400 years ago. It holds us back and is certainly disconcerting...however, it can't last. the entire fight is sort of motivated in a convoluted way (in my opinion), by those who have a lot to lose if all of humanity switches from an emotional, reactive response to a rational, proactive one; eventually their efforts to impede progress will fail, because the truth is that people can only tolerate being bossed around by others for a certain period of time before they get tired of it--that in itself is sort of an evolutionary response, I guess.

[meganmonkey]

32. You're right, I think people don't realize that at this point

survival of all trumps their selfish needs. Because they don't realize that their needs are selfish - they believe so deeply that it is 'us vs. them' that they don't see that the only SUSTAINABLE thing is 'All for one and one for all', if you know what I mean. There is a tendency toward an emotional, defensive perspective, like you say.

I wish I had more time to expound on these ideas and talk about it more, but I have to wrap up at work so I can leave for DC in a few minutes. I'm sorry if I don't reply anymore.

I like your ideas, though!

Peace!

[nishiki]

22. Still heading in the right direction

As bleak as things seem to be, when I look at human history in a 100, 1000 or 10,000 year perspective I see quite a bit of progress. Things are certainly better today than 100 years ago for women, minorities and the common man in general. Go back 1000 years and life was even bleaker. Unfourtunately, things do not change fast enough, and the utopia will not be achieved in our lifetimes.

[antigone382]

29. That's absolutely my opinion.

but I intend to live my life working for it as if it can.

[Angry Girl]

24. Grim outlook

Well, given that the Earth's resources are finite and dwindling and our population is growing, there's no much mystery: Think Soylent Green.

China and India superpowers
US a third world country
Media rules all (and whoever rules the media rules the world)
Divide between rich and poor huge
Poor VERY poor
Middle class gone
Military rule
Clean water, like oil, gets privatized... Oops, 90% of it already is!
Clean air will be next
Pollution everywhere
Fish die out (they already are, btw - google menhaden, e.g.)
Genetically tampered fungi (used in the so-called war on drugs) and other GM plants contaminate and kill out other strains of plants (and the fauna who depend on it)
Mass extinction of wildlife species
Crops suffer from natural disasters, which become more frequent with global warming
No more Amazon jungle
Huge famines
Huge pandemics with new strains of bacteria and viruses
Wars

The usual.... *sigh*

[FlaGranny]

26. If you had asked me that in 1999

I would have said we were headed toward progress and prosperity. Since 2001, I have progressively become more pessimistic. Now I'd be surprised if humans even survive.

The folks in power now seem to believe that peace and prosperity applies only to them personally.

[Silverhair]

30. Back to the stone age.

We are approaching a massive sudden die off of most of humanity. I expect it to be disease. Sooner or later, some bug is going to mutate into a very quickly, deadly, highly contagious form and will take out most of humanity. The third world will probably be hit hardest by the disease itself, but the industrial world will be hit hard too.

There won't be enough people left to run the components of civilization at the level it is now. There will be a second wave to the die off as those without basic survival skills die of starvation.

Finally, we will settle down to about a 15th century level, but with the books, and some educated survivors, that will be available to learn how to make the machines.

After about 200 years, maybe less, humanity will be united and will be under strict population control. Technology will have recovered. During that time, many natural habitats and species will have recovered.

Humanity will then develop a serious interest in going to other solar systems.

[antigone382]

31. I wish I could reply to everyone's posts...but I have to go to work now!

However, I'll be back to read all of your comments later, so please keep posting. I've really enjoyed, and been educated by, what I have read so far.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to share their opinions!

[JitterbugPerfume]

40. read A Canticle For Liebowitz

Authors name is Miller Sorry I can't be more specific but my books are packed in boxes <sigh>

This book gives a good perspective on your question


I meant to reply to the origional poster ---sorry

[Angry Girl]

41. It sounds really good! I'm checking my library now!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553379267/qid=1127428001/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-4470271-7503923?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Qibing Zero]

33. This is the most depressing topic,

and I could write page after page on it, but I think I'll try to sum it up in as few words as possible.

We've hit three huge markers in recent human history that have changed everything:

First came freethought. A few great individuals were able to break apart the bonds that anchored their minds to the bottom of the sea, and begin to see things in the light of freedom. Considering every possibility, and understanding the consistancy of change, these persons thought as if they were OUTSIDE of society, religion, and other barriers. They asked the deeper questions, and took nothing for granted.

Second was exponential science. Understanding the world, as opposed to being confused by it, was the greatest cause for the opening up of the mind. No longer did people have to assume that a supernatural being shaped and molded every unexplainable aspect of their existance. Every single day that passed, technology progressed and allowed people to spend less and less time worrying about their survival, and more and more time learning and advancing the previous technology. Our level of technology and knowledge started to grow exponentially, and while we still have ages and ages to go, who knows how much tomorrow's advancement will change our entire lives?

The third marker came about when technology hit a certain level. As JFK said in his inaugural speech in 1961: "The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life." That was almost 45 years ago, and yet this is still the biggest problem facing the world today. All it takes is a couple of the wrong people gaining enough power, and we're all toast (or icicles). Sadly, we seem to be headed more toward that path than we are toward abolishing all forms of human poverty.


So, if humanity is able to resolve it's differences, embrace freethought, science, and technology, and learn from it's mistakes, I believe we can move foreward at a pace that is nearly utopian. Unfortunately, our future seems much more depressing. I won't claim to be anything but skeptical (not pessimistic nor optimistic), but despite the great amount of hope I see for humanity, the course we are taking is troubling on the mind. I can only hope and try to work for it becoming otherwise.

The most drastic emotion I have felt is the one I feel when considering this situation. It is the emotion that overcomes me when I consider unlimited possiblity absolutely destroyed by cruel intentions and apathy.

[Ready4Change]

34. Short Term, who knows? Long Term? Understanding.

In our individual lives, the direction we see things taking is misleading. You need to look at history to get a bigger picture.

Right now I think we are making a tremendous leap in our understanding of the world and universe that surrounds us. The scientific method as made that progress sky rocket. (Literally.)

At the same time, it has allowed our population to explode all out of context. I think, short term, we are coming due for a die off, as is seen in many other species which become overly successful in their niche.

But looked at in archeological terms, we've come a long way from caves and fire hardened wooden spears. And there seems to be a basic, internal drive in the species to explore in all senses of the word. Explore the terrain, the materials, the creatures, and each other. Explore our minds, explore the skies, explore physics and math.

No topic is taboo for the human species, much though small segments of the population may want to impose limits. The species as a whole barely pauses at such times. Like river water flowing around a rock, some of us get caught in the eddies, but the species keeps on moving.

I have tremendous faith in us as a species. It's certain segments of our current civilizations I've got doubts about.

[SteppingRazor]

37. Short term, who knows? Long term? Obliteration.

Call me a pessimist :evilgrin:

[elsiesummers]

35. Is demograph destiny?

If you look at the way the demographics of the modern/westernized nations are going, it's sort of interesting. I saw somewhere that Sweden's birth rate is so low that there is an advertizing campaign where Bijorn Borg is telling people to procreate. In Austrailia 28 percent of women will not have children in 2006 and their birth rate is steadily falling. There is a lot of recent ecconomic thought out there regarding the ratio of young workers to retired elderly, not just in the US (regarding social security) but also in Japan and Europe. John Mauldin at www.frontlinethoughts.com has a couple of articles on this topic in his archives. One is titled "Demography is Destiny". The US is one of the aging populations, but it is not aging at the rate/level of Western European nations or of Japan, for all the talk about the diminishing Soc Sec funds.

Meanwhile you have India and the Middle East on a path towards ever expanding populations. China is apparently slowly abandoning their one child policy because of the potential aging of their population.

I've even seen suggestions that one of the reasons the neo-cons want their toehold in Iraq is to have a tie in to the Mid East as a potential consumer market since their population is growing and ours is stable and on a path to decrease.

The Sustainable living sites always point out that it's not just about population growth though, because of the huge quantity of natural resources, per capita, that Americans use.

Menwhile - I generally agree with post #9 (especially the first two paragraphs) that the US is a nation (empire) in decline - doesn't mean we will have nothing because these sorts of changes can be so gradual - but at some point we won't be able to avail ourselves of the quantity of the worlds resources that we currently consume.

I've also read that China is buying Brazillian rain forests and Canadian copper mines and oil fields - I guess planning ahead.

I also happened to see a quote of Stephen Hawking that said, paraphrased, that if the world population continues to increase at its current rate we will all be standing shoulder to shoulder in 2600.

Obviously something, actually many things, will inevitably change. Whether population growth is curtailed by orderly or disorderly means, population growth will inevitably be curtailed. The only other option is to inhabit outer space, which certainly seems unlikely, but a lot can happen in 600 years.

You might google "zero population growth" for more stuff. There's actually an organization out their for voluntary extinction, though while they state that as their goal, I think it's really more about population control awareness.

Just a few things to think about.

[SomewhereOutThere424]

38. 'next thousand years'? You certainly give humankind a lot of credit

I predict their innate prejaduism for themselves and all living things and their complete disregard for causing pain or misery will well into a massive war with animal and person alike, when the animals have finally had enough of their BS and when people are sick of being mistreated in the exact same ways. I think the greater portion of human beings, if there is any kind of afterlife, are going straight to hell. I think many republicans and democrats in senate will sit in hell alike for one's evil doing and the other's inability to care that it was happening, that they wore the robe of hero, and used it as a bib at cocktail parties.

I think there's hope...for a few human beings. A much, much smaller community of them than there are. That when their weapons of mass destruction and their guns and massive numbers are obliterated, that they'll be able to survive in a smaller majority but in nature where they were intended.

And when human beings blow themselves up and find that there was no divine intervention to protect them from themselves, that maybe they'll stop relying on a 2000 year old book and start working for themselves, lose their inherant lasiness, and only if they retain the knowledge of their horrible past where they crucified animals and their young for money to sell their fur and when they kept concentration camps for animals to be slaughtered for their food instead of relying on any kind of hunting skills, when they murdered thousands of their predatory 'rivals' for killing a few of their 'livestock' and when they sold their own babies into prostitution and when the rest only sat by and lived their lives doing nothing because 'they didn't do that' but never cared to get involved, humanity may have a hope, an inkling of hope, of achieving a kind of utopia where knowledge is cherished.

There are the native americans, there was ithaca of greece. It is these small civilizations in history and current that give me hope about humanity. That without society, social order, without money and without the drive for greed being taught to children above the drive to survive, perhaps this world will be better for humans. As of now they're a cancer, and one which will be treated soon enough.

BTW if you can't tell I'm just a wee bit bitter at the way I'd witnessed people acting lately :p maybe if we spent more time trying to fix the ecosystems instead of plastering our words all over illusionary boxes of electricty, instead of plastering our faces all over radiation inducing boxes, instead of glorifying ourselves in our entertainment giving a damn about those who suffer in our species and other species, maybe I can reconsider humanity having any worth.

[katty]

39. Thermodynamics and 5 stages of grief for humanity

the 5 stages to a traumatic event most all of us have experienced: The Dead Battery! You're going to be late to work so you rush out to your car, place the key in the ignition and turn it on. You hear nothing but a grind; the battery is dead.

DENIAL --- What's the first thing you do? You try to start it again! And again. You may check to make sure the radio, heater, lights, etc. are off and then..., try again.

ANGER --- "%$@^##& car!", "I should have junked you years ago." Did you slam your hand on the steering wheel? I have. "I should just leave you out in the rain and let you rust."

BARGAINING --- (realizing that you're going to be late for work)..., "Oh please car, if you will just start one more time I promise I'll buy you a brand new battery, get a tune up, new tires, belts and hoses, and keep you in perfect working condition.

DEPRESSION --- "Oh God, what am I going to do. I'm going to be late for work. I give up. My job is at risk and I don't really care any more. What's the use".

ACCEPTANCE --- "Ok. It's dead. Guess I had better call the Auto Club or find another way to work. Time to get on with my day;

[More Than A Feeling]

42. Where it has always gone

I do not have a positive view of history. The powerful have always practiced self-aggrandizement, and the weak and the poor have always been shit on. There have been times when humanity has followed its better angels, but there is no good that cannot be tainted with some bad (but alternatively, no bad that cannot be brightened with a little good.) The movement of humanity does not have to be forward, it can very easily be backward. There will be no utopia, not in this life.

However, pessimism is not hopelessness. In every moment, each one of us has the potential to live up to the highest potential of out nature, if we have the courage to do it. Everything that we do counts, even if the tally won't be added up in this life.

[sweetheart]

43. Overpopulation

I think humanity will experience a tragic meltdown due to the toxic
footprint of its overpopulation and resource burnouts. And soon, the
entire earth will be polluted, the oceans fished empty, and the land
turned in to a toxic waste dump, like so much of the urban wastelands
already overpaved.

And the children of tomorrow, will be ignorant and selfish, that this
republican selfishness is just the kernel of a nation that will eventually
exacerbate a nuclear holocaust.

And only after a nuclear war humbles americans in to arresting their
criminals, will any sort of balance return.

But hopefully, they'll go bankrupt first, that their long term plans
for global space and nuclear weapons empires will break on the rocks
of a credit meltdown.